Gencon State of the Hobby Industry Seminar

[Spriggan]

gaming report has an article that summarizes the what current businesses trends are going on with in the game industry right now, its interesting but not terribly detailed but basically "pen and paper rpgs are loosing market share to WoW and it costs us too much money to distribute our products".

The last paragraph was the most interesting:

Some discussion was made about different licensing options, such as the impact of video games on related tabletop games or novels. Both were seen as viable avenues to introducing new consumers to specific product lines. There are some risks for investing in such, as typical gaming stores cannot compete with chain stores on video games to draw in customers. Similarly, profit margins on novels are negligible, although manufacturers might employ them as a self-paying advertisement. The ending point of the session really highlighted the connection different licensing products have. To quote the panel, 'There will be no Movement Rules: The Movie,' as it is setting that sells games, not rules.

I think Stacer has mentioned that except for the hardback novels WotC doesn't make a huge amount off of the novels but are a good way to introduce people to the game and setting they're based off of.

Also I found the last line interesting, that setting sells and not rules.  I was going to use this article for a nerdery but I really don't think there's much I would add except duh WoW is taking away from Pen and Paper RPGs.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

well, I agree, except that it's a bit too blanket a statement. Rules do sell games. Setting is more important. Definitely. But I know several people that won't play a settign they find interesting because of the ruleset.

[Mad Dr Jeffe]

Like E rufuses to play WOD.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

not the best scenario, since I'm not all that enamoured of the setting either.

[42]

I don't know a lot of people who won't play a setting because of rules attached to it. It is just too easy to transplant that setting to another set of rules when playing.

I can see that some rules sell. People will pay for the rulebook for their favorite set of rules, but that's about it.

Generally, I find that people want to learn one set of rules and then stick to those rules for a while. The number of gamers who play multiple rule sets aren't that common.

[Entsuropi]

That doesn't match up here, where groups go through multiple games. It tends to be that each GM has his own set of pet games, and since many players here can GM...

My last group tended to use GURPs as a default if they didn't like the rules of a game.

[Mad Dr Jeffe]

hmm, honestly I generally don't convert settings... if its not available in a system I like to play, I wont buy it. Which is why I never bought Gurps 3e products....
Ever.

However Im fairly easy going when it comes to systems. I dislike d20 for instance, but will play it if the setting is interesting enough. I bought read and hated Deciphers Lord of the Rings books, and would never use that system for LOTR. I wouldnt buy D20 Star Wars, but I would buy WEG Star Wars. I generally stay away from All Flesh must be eaten and other Eden Studios games because I dont like the ruleset a lot. Now I have been interested in converting (so to speak) a large number of settings to Story Engine just because its rules lightness means I dont have to convert much.

[stacer]

Sprig, it's not just that hardcovers make more money--they might, but they also cost more. But the article is right--the profit margin on books, whether hardcover or soft, is not very high. When people from other books look at the numbers in publishing, they're astonished that the numbers are so low across the board. Deals are not so big-money in publishing as other industries.

And I don't remember saying it was a good introduction to the setting, but yeah, in a way. I kind of like to think that the Dragonlance: The New Adventures books that I edit are a little more than that (I can't speak for what's coming out for adults right now; not as familiar with them). Not just intro to the setting, but a good story on its own.

[Spriggan]

I'm much like Jeffe on this, if I don't like a rule set I won't play a game even if I kinda like the setting (ie Exalted) though I tend to enjoy most game system.

And Stacer, sorry thought you had mentioned that before but you have to think if the books don't make money then why does Wizards bother to publish them if not for another form of advertising or a way of keeping people interested in D&D?  That doesn't mean that can't been good.  As for an intro into the setting, Dragonlance was just that the book by Weiss and Hickman, which are still some of my favorite books, were written for the sole purpose of getting people interested in a new setting TSR was planning on releasing.

[Mad Dr Jeffe]

I think a lot of people stay with one ruleset because one ruleset tends to be in every store. I mean the only 3 in most bookstores are D&D (or D20 made only by wizards) White Wolf and Gurps in that order. You dont find Pendragon hiding on the shelves, or Call of Cthulu, you dont find L5R, or mutants and masterminds either very occasionally you find Warhammer. So people stay with what they can get, because other systems are scary....
Its obvious why D&D does so well, Marketing and Brand name. Well that and the mad scary clout of Hasbro. But even that clout wasnt enough to keep the 300+ Wizards stores open. Still D&D packs groups in because everyone can get D&D everywhere.

[42]

You used to be able to find Rifts, but not as much anymore.

[stacer]

Well, to be fair, Sprig, if you were to  talk to Weis and Hickman, I don't think they'd say that the books were written solely to generate interest in the new Dragonlance world, but hey, I'm a newcomer at this. I saw a review recently that said that the original DL books were written based upon a roleplaying session Weis and Hickman played, and that's simply not true. Sometimes what's written in the press is wrong.

Either way, right now we're going in new directions, and that makes me happy. The books I edit are children's books that will hopefully bring new readers to our books. If they get kids interested in the games, too, great, but that's not the intention. We're about the books.

[Fellfrosch]

According to 30 Years of Adventure (which may well be wrong) the first DL books were pretty much designed as advertisements for the game. Since then, though, and largely because of Weis and Hickman's popularity, they have started to focus more on books for their own sake. That's a large part of why (at least as far as I can tell) they are starting so many new lines, most of them not even based on games.

[Entsuropi]

They may not have been based off of a session but they sure read like it. You could practically hear the dice rattling.

[stacer]

Well, at least I get to be part of the New World Order focusing on the books. I only pay attention to the history as it applies to my books.