Author Topic: Rumors  (Read 15534 times)

Prometheus

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Re: Rumors
« Reply #30 on: January 07, 2003, 12:44:05 PM »
Specifically a Kavu-type creature. They're funny and I miss them. I doubt they're in Wizard's plans for the future, though, and that's why I admitted that it was a really long shot.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2003, 12:44:44 PM by Prometheus »
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Fellfrosch

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Re: Rumors
« Reply #31 on: January 07, 2003, 06:43:43 PM »
I would sooner call it an impossibility than a long shot, but they seem to be bringing back slivers so I suppose anything could happen.
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Prometheus

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Re: Rumors
« Reply #32 on: January 08, 2003, 12:25:13 AM »
Spikes was also one of the voting options in the last Make a Card event, which I didn't think we'd ever see again.
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Fellfrosch

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Re: Rumors
« Reply #33 on: January 09, 2003, 07:52:55 PM »
If half of the rumors on this spoiler turn out to be true, I'll be a happy man.

http://216.127.88.11/tracing/le/
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Prometheus

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Re: Rumors
« Reply #34 on: January 09, 2003, 08:13:59 PM »
Surprisingly, I'm not so sure about how well I like Double Strike. It's cool for a creature to do damage twice, I guess...but a large part of the point of a first strike creature is to kill during the first strike phase, and I'd expect (and hope) that Double Strike creatures have low powers for their casting costs. The double strike elemental indicated in that article, for instance, costs 7 mana for 4 double strike power, and its a rare with no other abilities aside from morph. I'd probably play with them if I got some, but from a normal first strike vantage, a 5 power first striker has significant advantages over a 4 power double striker. (Like the power to stop Silvos, Rogue Elemental cold, for instance.)
« Last Edit: January 09, 2003, 08:14:54 PM by Prometheus »
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Lord_of_Me

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Re: Rumors
« Reply #35 on: January 10, 2003, 01:10:15 PM »
yeah i don't like double strike either but i don't care because...

and

Prometheus

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Re: Rumors
« Reply #36 on: January 10, 2003, 03:49:46 PM »
Akroma I like...powerful but expensive and manageable. She also reillustrates my point that first strike creatures almost always cost 2+power mana no matter how many other mods are on them. I'll likely try to get her if I can. Phage though...not my style of card. Winning (or losing) the game so easily...nah. It just might throw a wrench in the plans of all those tourney players that elect to forego creature defenses though. That'd be amusing.
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Lord_of_Me

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Re: Rumors
« Reply #37 on: January 10, 2003, 04:50:16 PM »
you have to admit that once either of those are in play the game is essentially over
unless astral slide on phage....
« Last Edit: January 10, 2003, 04:53:20 PM by Lord_of_Me »

Prometheus

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Re: Rumors
« Reply #38 on: January 10, 2003, 05:53:19 PM »
Nah. Akroma is stoppable. Kinda tough, but stoppable. And all one really has to do to Phage is kill or block her. It depends largely on what else is in play. Both could be held off indefinitely by the right cards... some blue cards especially come to mind.

Phage's creature destruction ability is also one of the least scary varieties I've seen out there. She actually has to do damage to the creature, which means damage can be done back to her, and she'll presumably die since I'd block her with plenty enough to slay her if it was me. Jeska, Warrior Adept could hold her darker form off alone without any difficulties. (First strike damage + tim == dead Phage & alive Jeska)

Akroma is, in my mind, much harder to stop. Protection from red and black take out a large portion of easy destruction capabilities. That, and you have to be ready to stop her by the time she comes out...haste + trample + flying + first strike + not tapping is really scary, but there's still an element of struggle involved. I like it. Green has few sky blockers, and even fewer that could hope to stop Akroma without a solid enchantment or an instant or something. Blue has lots of flyers, but few that could knock her down. My best bet there would be to get her out of play via a return to hand ability or something. Or just counter her. White has some angels that could take on Akroma, but not without a little help.

Don't misunderstand me. I'm impressed with both of these cards. I just also acknowledge that there are good ways to stop them both, and that I don't like Phage...there's no struggle if she wins the game for you.
« Last Edit: January 10, 2003, 05:55:59 PM by Prometheus »
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Fellfrosch

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Re: Rumors
« Reply #39 on: January 10, 2003, 07:05:50 PM »
You could say that about any creature that deals lethal damage. Is it that much different to set the stage for a Phage attack than to set the stage for a deadly creature assault?
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Prometheus

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Re: Rumors
« Reply #40 on: January 10, 2003, 10:18:42 PM »
For me, yes. My reasoning for not liking Phage follows a lot along the lines of the same stuff that inspired my Slugfest Central deck, and that earned me a Marauder personality type on that Blackborder MTG personality quiz, and that drive me to slaughter all an opponent's pieces in a chess game before the end, though, so if you don't agree don't worry about it. I'd simply rather have a good fight and maybe even lose than win without one.

Now that I think about it, Phage is somewhat unique in being one of the cards that wins the game in a way I find distatsteful (like Mortal Combat or Epic Struggle) that I don't think I'd complain if someone else included it in their deck, simply because creatures are so much easier to deal with than enchantments. If Phage does beat me, it's because I let her get through somehow or failed to kill her in time or perhaps I didn't even have a healer out to prevent her damage after she gains fear for a turn...something like that. That's a lot different than the aforementioned enchantments to me. Quite often my only hope against the others would be to have an enchantment destruction card in my hand or some such thing on the turn after it's played, and it would be deeply annoying to have to include 4 Naturalizes just because of one card my friend happens to be playing with. (and not use them on anything else for fear that their next card will be Mortal Combat followed by Traumatize)

To address the rest of Fell's question, a creature that deals lethal damage is something entirely different in my mind. Dealing lethal damage to a player usually implies that you've beaten them down and are simply finishing the game, or that you've somehow gained such a superior position that they can no longer defend themselves. (Like Overrunning squirrels or maintaining a solid defense while slowly battering away at them with Magnigoth Treefolk, or even blasting them to smithereens with a Fireball) Part of the difference lies in the fact that there are plenty of ways to counter such tactics, (Fog, Terror, Counterspell, ect.) while Phage's ability just says 'ha, ha. you lose' in one tight little package. (should she manage to deal combat damage to you of course) No setup, no battle, no conjuring of some huge uber-spell that will at least make the dying player laugh at how badly they got schooled. Nothing. Just you lose, and nothing more. Yes, there does need to be something to get her by the defenders, but Touch of Invisibility is about all anyone would ever need unless they're staring down a solid Clerical defense. So, as I said earlier, using Phage to win doesn't imply any sort of real struggle from my point of view.
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Fellfrosch

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Re: Rumors
« Reply #41 on: January 11, 2003, 01:30:41 AM »
You say that winning with Phage involves "no setup, no combat, and no conjuring up some uber-spell," which frankly makes no sense. You have to find a way for her to get through the enemy defenses (setup), she has to deal damage (combat) and she costs 3BBBB (an uber-spell in her own right). Phage is essentially a normal creature who simply deals a different kind of damage--she doesn't win the game by herself more than any other creature does, and in fact is less of a game-winner than a lot of creatures we could name. I understand your deck philosphy (I do edit your articles, after all), but I fail to see why Phage doesn't fit into it.
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Prometheus

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Re: Rumors
« Reply #42 on: January 11, 2003, 06:51:04 AM »
Maybe I can't explain it well. I don't like her either way though. Still, the disadvantages assosciated with her are strong enough that it's a reasonable card. One I don't really balk at much if nothing else. As we've both stated, she really isn't all that hard to deal with.

Speaking of editing my articles, what did you think of Infirmary Ward? If nothing else, I managed to convince myself to put blue in one of my decklists.  :D
« Last Edit: January 11, 2003, 06:58:05 AM by Prometheus »
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Lord_of_Me

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Re: Rumors
« Reply #43 on: January 11, 2003, 09:04:16 AM »
there are a few ways to deal with phage, astral slide for one. Flicker for two or just  a plain old counterspell.

Prometheus

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Re: Rumors
« Reply #44 on: January 13, 2003, 03:50:46 PM »
I didn't really want to go back into it, but the article today on wizard's site about Phage had this dialogue in it, and it was too funny to pass up reposting here: (the developer talking to himself after coming up with the concept)

Me: Can we actually do this?
Other Me: I don't know. They lose the game?
Me: Yeah, but the creature has to hit them.
Other Me: They lose the game?
Me: It's a bit radical. But why not?
Other Me: One more time. They lose the freakin' game?!
Me: Outside the box please.
Other Me: I'm sick and tired of that expression. You know what's radical? Thinking in the box. You know why? 'Cause no one's looking there.
Me: Tangent.
Other Me: We've had our fun. Let's move on.
Me: No. We can do this.
Other Me: For those that came in late . . .
Me: If you say "lose the game" one more time, I'm going to smack you. Actually, that would hurt. I'll severely berate you.
Other Me: Ooh, not a severe berating.
Me: Let's just take the idea to Bill. See what Bill thinks.
Other Me: If Bill doesn't like it, are you going to severely berate him?
Me: Enough with the severe berating. The idea's cool, right?
Other Me: Oh, it's cool, but so is a direct damage spell that does infinite damage. That doesn't mean we should do it.
Me: (doing Homer Simpson's drool) Mmm, infinite damage.

full text of the article is here, but it's sorta long:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/mr54
"Shoot Everything. If it blows up or dies, it was bad." -- Things you Learn from Video Games poster