Author Topic: World of Warcraft  (Read 23617 times)

Prometheus

  • Level 19
  • *
  • Posts: 927
  • Fell Points: 8
  • The Threadslayer
    • View Profile
Re: World of Warcraft
« Reply #105 on: September 09, 2004, 08:27:47 PM »
I already knew it wouldn't get me anything. I can't get any xp for level 12 critters or so anymore. I've heard from other folks, though, that a higher level person can level lower level folks effectively, even if only through getting rapid quest rewards.

We still might not want to do it, and I'm normally a purist about this sort of thing, but we really don't have much time with these characters.
"Shoot Everything. If it blows up or dies, it was bad." -- Things you Learn from Video Games poster

Prometheus

  • Level 19
  • *
  • Posts: 927
  • Fell Points: 8
  • The Threadslayer
    • View Profile
Re: World of Warcraft
« Reply #106 on: September 10, 2004, 08:14:40 PM »
So when can people do this? We don't have much time left...I'm generally available until the end of the stress test, though. Give me a call if I haven't noticed or whisper to Konaros.
"Shoot Everything. If it blows up or dies, it was bad." -- Things you Learn from Video Games poster

Spriggan

  • Administrator
  • Level 78
  • *
  • Posts: 10582
  • Fell Points: 31
  • Yes, I am this awesome
    • View Profile
    • Legacies Lost
Re: World of Warcraft
« Reply #107 on: September 10, 2004, 08:43:03 PM »
Tage and Micah are on Sargaoes (sp?).
Screw it, I'm buying crayons and paper. I can imagineer my own adventures! Wheeee!

Chuck Norris is the reason Waldo is hiding.


Fellfrosch

  • Administrator
  • Level 68
  • *****
  • Posts: 7033
  • Fell Points: 42
  • Walkin' with a dead man over my shoulder.
    • View Profile
    • Fearful Symmetry
Re: World of Warcraft
« Reply #108 on: September 10, 2004, 09:27:33 PM »
Sargeras. I got onto that one as well, playing Undead. I'm still low level, though, so I can change classes if I need to in order to better fit into the extremely brief group (which will end on Sunday). What classes does everyone else have?
"Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you walk into an open sewer and die." --Mel Brooks

My author website: http://www.fearfulsymmetry.net

Prometheus

  • Level 19
  • *
  • Posts: 927
  • Fell Points: 8
  • The Threadslayer
    • View Profile
Re: World of Warcraft
« Reply #109 on: September 11, 2004, 03:09:30 PM »
I've made an Undead Mage on Sargeras (level 3) so far. I've been keeping a watch for the rest of our folks, but I haven't seen anyone online so far. My Mage's name is Kalisse.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2004, 03:10:31 PM by Prometheus »
"Shoot Everything. If it blows up or dies, it was bad." -- Things you Learn from Video Games poster

Fellfrosch

  • Administrator
  • Level 68
  • *****
  • Posts: 7033
  • Fell Points: 42
  • Walkin' with a dead man over my shoulder.
    • View Profile
    • Fearful Symmetry
Re: World of Warcraft
« Reply #110 on: September 13, 2004, 03:03:30 AM »
And, just as quickly, the stress test ends. I got up to level 11 with my little undead warrior, and though I checked frequently I never ran into Cadamis (Tage) or Kalisse (Prometheus). If you want my final appraisal of the game, here it is:

The game is not as big of a leap forward as I was expecting; it refines the classic elements of the MMORPG genre but doesn't really change any of them. We've already discussed this one.

The look, feel, and flavor of the game are incredible, especially if you, like me, really dig the Warcraft world to begin with. I didn't fully appreciate this until I accidentally stumbled onto an airship, just to see what it was, and found myself being carried away from the undead ruins of Lordaeron (which are strikingly dark and moody) to the funky desert empire of Durotar (which was bright, orky, and absolutely perfect). That a single game could not only contain two such disparate areas but pull them both off and meld them seamlessly together is very impressive. From that point on I virtually stopped "playing" and spent my time exploring through a variety of cool and different areas. I was duly impressed. (I explored so much, by the way, that I ended up trapped in a huge, flat section of the world that hadn't been built yet. It made me think of TRON for some reason. I took some pictures, I'll try to get them posted.)

The quest system, once you get past the boring crap ("Our lands have been plagued by wolves! Slay four Lesser Baby Wolves and bring me their paws!"), is very flavorful and really complements the visual look of the world. It's the first MMORPG I've played that really made me feel like there was a vast untold story behind almost every location and NPC. The structure of the quests is often very cool despite some seemingly silly premises--at one point I was asked to steal ten pumpkins from a human farm, made difficult by the fact that the humans were a lot tougher than I was and tended to group together. The only way to steal pumpkins was to skirt the edges of the farm and pick off the stragglers, and then charge in when it looked like the coast was clear and try to make it back out before another farmer wandered by. Like I said: it's a silly premise, but it was very exciting, very fun, and very different.

Combat is not nearly as entertaining as that of CoH, and I think I've thought it through enough to pin it down on two reasons: First, the combat in WoW is close but still not true real time--when you trigger a power you have to wait until it's your turn to hit again before it goes off. That's hardly debilitating, and it's still a great improvement over most MMOGs, but it irked me like a pesky mosquito. Second, the enemies in WoW mostly travel alone, whereas the enemies in CoH move (or loiter) in huge packs. Combat in WoW, at least at the low levels I experienced, is a series of many small skirmishes; combat in CoH, as early as level 2, is a collection of big battles involving long odds and swarms of people. Even though you probably end up killing the same amount of people, fighting them all at once makes you feel tougher, and makes each battle a bigger challenge.

Maybe the travel system in WoW wasn't fully implemented yet, but it didn't impress me. You get most of your experience from quests rather than from hunting, which is an awesome idea, but it means that I had to spend way more time running to and from the NPCs instead of exploring new locations and ruthlessly gutting whoever I found inside. On the plus side, the game gives you experience for each new area you find, so it encourages exploration and helped make the experience a lot more fun.

The PvP seemed more like what I wanted out of DAoC--a realm vs. realm system where the realms were closely connected, and where the battles actually took place in the same world as everything else (instead of in some nebulous "frontier" zone or battleground). I never participated, so who knows if it's balanced or even fun, but I like the idea behind it.

I've said it before and I'll say it again: any game that offers the undead as a playable race earns ridiculous amounts of points from me right out of the blocks. To my great delight I found that WoW not only has undead but did them right--they look, move, talk and live exactly as I would like them to. Kudos to Blizzard.

In conclusion: I liked the game a lot more than I initially expected to, mostly due to the great look and flavor. I look forward to more playtesting in (I hope) the next wave of closed betas, and the promised open beta.
« Last Edit: September 13, 2004, 03:08:11 AM by Fellfrosch »
"Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you walk into an open sewer and die." --Mel Brooks

My author website: http://www.fearfulsymmetry.net

Spriggan

  • Administrator
  • Level 78
  • *
  • Posts: 10582
  • Fell Points: 31
  • Yes, I am this awesome
    • View Profile
    • Legacies Lost
Re: World of Warcraft
« Reply #111 on: September 13, 2004, 04:40:28 AM »
Just going to add comments to yours.  Also as we've talked about I don't think you'll see a huge leap in MMORPG gameplay until technology gets better and so does internet speeds.  Once companies can design games with out worrying about makeing them dialup and lowspeed DSLs in mind you'll see new stuff added, but the big thing is PCs just cannot handle the massive amount of things they'd have to do.  It's easy to do a single player game with cool combat and lots of options, but once you add 100+ people that would be doing all those things next to you things get murky.

1) You should see some of the higher level zones, they're realy cool looking.  I initaly spent a lot of time exploreing, actualy I still do there are some cool places you can find (like an air feild by Iron Forge).

2) Ya there are some great quest lines once you get into the 20's and up.  The first 15 or so levels in WoW is realy bland, though there still are lots of go out and kill x number of things quests out there.  The cool thing is there are so many zones for each level that you can pick and choose quests you want to do.  I'm 49 and probaly only did about 60-70% of the horde quests to my level.

3)  Ya the combat isn't real time, me and EUOL have discussed the inherit problems about realtime combat (lag problems).  The reason why WoW mobs are they way they are is becsaue it's a solo friendly game.  You can solo from 1-60 never grouping with out much trouble at all.  This bug some people that want groups and the dynamics that adds, there are quests (mostly elite ones) that requite groups.  I like how it is since the reason I stoped playing FFXI was that I hated waiting around for 2-3 hours trying to get a groups becasue you could not solo in the game after lvl 15-20.  Once you get higher levels and the eilite quests you get more concintrated mobs in places but there's not many since Blizz is limiting crowd controll in the game, they don't want it to be like EQ or DAoC where you could pull 5 mobs and sleep root them for easy kills.  The cool thing about WoW combat is all the classes have different systems.  Warriors have rage that you need to build up for moves, rogues have energy that decreases and combo points to do finishing moves. then all the magic classes have different stuff.  I thought that was cool, playing a rogue is a completly different expernce then a warrior because their combat system is 100% different then a warriors.

3)  That the whole travel system.  At level 40 you can get mounts (60% speed increase) and it makes a huge difference.  Ya there are a lot of run here and run there quests but Blizz trys to give you mutiple things to do in areas so if you have to run to the other side of the zone you'll have more then one thing to do.  This isn't a factor for such low levels is that you can not do those types of quests at higher levels since there are more quests.  Also once you've played for a while you learn where things are which realy cuts down on travel time.  Though at higher levels you'll have quests that send you to 2-3 different zones, so you learn to make friends with mages/warlocks that have teleporting spells.

4) PvP isn't in yet, all you can do is attack the other players are if they were monsters so I cannot comment on what the final verison will be like.  The next patch is supposed to add PVP rewards and some other systems, I'll let you know how this is once I see it.  There will be raid instances that will be PvE and PvP and are supposed to be realy cool, we're only going to see one or 2 of these in the beta and that's only going to be PvE raids (against an evil dragon in Blackrock spire).  Blizz is touting the PvP ones will make you feel like your an indivdual unit in WC3 so hopefuly they'll live upto that.
Screw it, I'm buying crayons and paper. I can imagineer my own adventures! Wheeee!

Chuck Norris is the reason Waldo is hiding.


Spriggan

  • Administrator
  • Level 78
  • *
  • Posts: 10582
  • Fell Points: 31
  • Yes, I am this awesome
    • View Profile
    • Legacies Lost
Re: World of Warcraft
« Reply #112 on: September 13, 2004, 10:05:02 PM »
Nvidia is giveing away 1000 slots into the Closed beta, you can sign up here http://www.nzone.com/content/warcraft_contest/contest.asp
Screw it, I'm buying crayons and paper. I can imagineer my own adventures! Wheeee!

Chuck Norris is the reason Waldo is hiding.


Fellfrosch

  • Administrator
  • Level 68
  • *****
  • Posts: 7033
  • Fell Points: 42
  • Walkin' with a dead man over my shoulder.
    • View Profile
    • Fearful Symmetry
Re: World of Warcraft
« Reply #113 on: September 14, 2004, 02:08:19 AM »
Yes, one thing I really liked about WoW was the ease of soloing--it astonished me how easy it was to level by myself, but at the same time it was easy to pick up an extra guy when I needed him. I tend to do a lot of soloing, thanks in part to the whole problem of leveling slowly and not being able to play with friends, so I liked that about the game.

In terms of combat, I don't think it's entirely fair of me to compare CoH to WoW--CoH has real-time combat, awesome battles, and a really cool teaming system that makes groups incredibly easy to form and play; on the other hand, CoH is far more focused on combat than any other MMORPG, to the exclusion of many other elements (like crafting). It makes sense that a game emphasizing one element of a genre would do it better than anybody else. WoW is trying to be more well-rounded, and I think they're doing a pretty good job. Still, I wonder how hard it would have been to just build some of those CoH elements into WoW from the beginning--after all, if anyone else can do it, Blizzard can do it better, right?
"Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you walk into an open sewer and die." --Mel Brooks

My author website: http://www.fearfulsymmetry.net

Spriggan

  • Administrator
  • Level 78
  • *
  • Posts: 10582
  • Fell Points: 31
  • Yes, I am this awesome
    • View Profile
    • Legacies Lost
Re: World of Warcraft
« Reply #114 on: September 14, 2004, 02:46:13 AM »
Something I've found is that a lot of people working on WoW were big EverQuest fans and a few of them where hired just becsue of their knowledge of that game and the genra.  Now I cannot read minds, I've been trying to read mine for years, but I think it's safe to say that Blizz is trying to make EQ the way they wanted it to be not reinvent the genra.

And as I stated in the other thread Blizz has been very harsh, for the lack of a better word, when it comes to people wanting WoW to be like CoH or haveing certain elements taken from that game.  The designers have contenetly responded very bluntly that they're not the same game and not going to change thigs becaue CoH is the current fad.  I'm not saying I agree or not with them (never played CoH), but I do know they're realy sick and tired of CoH.
Screw it, I'm buying crayons and paper. I can imagineer my own adventures! Wheeee!

Chuck Norris is the reason Waldo is hiding.


Fellfrosch

  • Administrator
  • Level 68
  • *****
  • Posts: 7033
  • Fell Points: 42
  • Walkin' with a dead man over my shoulder.
    • View Profile
    • Fearful Symmetry
Re: World of Warcraft
« Reply #115 on: September 14, 2004, 03:22:26 AM »
Yes, I understand that. I just think they're being kind of petty, is all--saying that they don't want to copy other games when they're so blatantly copying one already. I think they're mostly just angry that CoH thought of so many cool things they didn't.
"Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you walk into an open sewer and die." --Mel Brooks

My author website: http://www.fearfulsymmetry.net

Spriggan

  • Administrator
  • Level 78
  • *
  • Posts: 10582
  • Fell Points: 31
  • Yes, I am this awesome
    • View Profile
    • Legacies Lost
Re: World of Warcraft
« Reply #116 on: September 21, 2004, 03:04:37 AM »
Yea, after about 4 days the WoW servers are back up (the data center holding the servers got ripped in half by a tornado last week) and we're welcomed by a new patch that makes the game unplayable for most of the people.  If you're a caster and a monster your attacking is moveing you cannot cast spells, also monster have unlimited melee attack range!  Fun.
Screw it, I'm buying crayons and paper. I can imagineer my own adventures! Wheeee!

Chuck Norris is the reason Waldo is hiding.


Spriggan

  • Administrator
  • Level 78
  • *
  • Posts: 10582
  • Fell Points: 31
  • Yes, I am this awesome
    • View Profile
    • Legacies Lost
Re: World of Warcraft
« Reply #117 on: September 21, 2004, 03:21:22 AM »
Also they're adding more beta testers soon, they even added a new server just for this.  
Screw it, I'm buying crayons and paper. I can imagineer my own adventures! Wheeee!

Chuck Norris is the reason Waldo is hiding.


Fellfrosch

  • Administrator
  • Level 68
  • *****
  • Posts: 7033
  • Fell Points: 42
  • Walkin' with a dead man over my shoulder.
    • View Profile
    • Fearful Symmetry
Re: World of Warcraft
« Reply #118 on: September 21, 2004, 04:08:21 AM »
Well, here's hoping. I'd like to try an Alliance character, though I'll probably spend the whole time dying on purpose to see if I come back as an undead.
"Tragedy is when I cut my finger. Comedy is when you walk into an open sewer and die." --Mel Brooks

My author website: http://www.fearfulsymmetry.net

Spriggan

  • Administrator
  • Level 78
  • *
  • Posts: 10582
  • Fell Points: 31
  • Yes, I am this awesome
    • View Profile
    • Legacies Lost
Re: World of Warcraft
« Reply #119 on: September 21, 2004, 04:27:14 AM »
They horrible gimped Rogues too this patch.  Now any monster or player several levels lower then us can see us while stealthed from a very far distance.  Warriors got hit hard too, they're rage dissapates realy realy fast now even while in combat.

Not sure what changes were ment to happen or what were intenetional, but most people aren't playing their priests, mages, and rogues anymore because they're worthless now.  At least. shamen and druids just got talents and a big powerbuff.  But that's part of Blizzs problem, every patch them make once class realy nice and make the others horrid to play, then next patch they nerf everything.  They're trying to balence around PVP which is a bad idea since it's nearly impossible to have PVP balence and unique classes, it's either one or the other.  Blizz should have learned from Mythic and EQ how not to balence.

And yes this is beta, but every patch they remove more and more from each class so they're all becomeing more alike and less fun to play.
Screw it, I'm buying crayons and paper. I can imagineer my own adventures! Wheeee!

Chuck Norris is the reason Waldo is hiding.