Author Topic: Frence Makeing sence.....What?!?!  (Read 9218 times)

The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers

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Re: Frence Makeing sence.....What?!?!
« Reply #45 on: February 05, 2003, 09:27:56 PM »
It's not that obtuse. And he's right. I wasn't being serious at all while whining about it. Althought I sure as hell would like to see my brother and my bro-in-law employed once again (as well as a slightly better salary for myself). Anyway, that's beside the point. I'm not fully convinced we should go to war yet, but I get the feeling I'm much more open to it than the French. But then, I suppose they're just worried about getting their butts handed to them. Again.

Oh, and I'm in on that nail driving thing. Not for revenge, but just because it might be entertaining.

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Re: Frence Makeing sence.....What?!?!
« Reply #46 on: February 06, 2003, 11:09:28 AM »
I wouldn't be opposed to someone driving a nail into Chirac's skull, partially because of the Iraq thing, but mostly because he's a snooty frenchman.
I got soul, but I'm not a soldier.

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Entropy in Exile

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Re: Frence Makeing sence.....What?!?!
« Reply #47 on: February 07, 2003, 03:24:08 PM »
heh. we're talking about economics, a subject im currently doing  :)

mustard is mainly right. playing about with economies is not for the light hearted. nor is it easy. about all bush can do is drop IR (interest rates), encouraging more spending and investment and borrowing while discouraging putting your money in the bank.
That, incidentially, is why the euro is going to crash and burn within 10-15 years. the euro central bank cut IR to hep out germany. this immediatly caused problems for anyone who had a good economy, since it meant that their economies were encouraged to spend more, which will inevitably result in a recession (the economy will overheat and start dropping like a stone. its the economic cycle aka business cycle ).

and i hope you guys dont start the war too soon - its gonne take the british army another 6 weeks to get there, and its gonna look damn embarrassing if we send a third of the RAF and a quarter of the army and we dont actually arrive before iraq is defeated

The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers

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Re: France Makeing sence.....What?!?!
« Reply #48 on: February 12, 2003, 06:34:38 PM »
I've been thinking about this again. Some of my thoughts may seem scattered, but I think they're all related.

There were a few accusations in Powell's remarks that he backed up with evidence. Most were not, but still remained simply accusations without any proof. A few of these latter have been seriously contended for several reasons. Some for their complete lack of evidence. Others because there is good evidence that contradicts directly what Powell says. I'm not convinced that Iraq has the capability to destroy as much as the current U.S. executive administration claims.

Bush needs to lay out ALL the evidence. He needs to share it with the executives and intelligence divisions of the entire world. He needs to stop fronting and stop trash talking. He should put a leash on Rumsfeld and Powell as well. His rhetoric and threats obviously fail to affect Hussein, Chirac, or anyone else. They don't seem to affect the population of Europe, which, while many of their governments back Bush, seem by all accounts to be against this war. A more diplomatic approach may be more likely to sway Europe, the leaders still opposed, and who know, possibly even Hussein (though I doubt it). If Bush MUST maintain a policy of violence to stop devestation, at least he could try to show the necessity of doing it rather than simply say he will no matter what.

Incidentally, Bush *IS* adversely affecting the US economy, which even Alan Greenspan tells us (though not in those direct words). War bluster and terrorism alerts seem nearly calculated to cause fear in the population (who needs al Qaeda when you can get scared by the Department of Homeland Defense -- interesting digression, Robin Williams joked that a lot of old Germans thought creating that department was very shrewed). Anyway, Greenspan points out that these activities very much hurt the performance of the stock market, investor mood, employment, purchases, etc. The diplomatic approach I mentioned earlier may allow some stabilization, or at least cause LESS damage.

Now, as for France. While I agree with them that it's not appropriate to go to war, I have a couple of reasons why I think they're not on the up and up. These are the guys that did nuclear testing in the 90's. Yes, just last decade. The entire world asked them not to do those tests. Yet, in typical French style, they waved their private parts at us and did it anyway. They aren't exactly alarmed by WMD activity that the world doesn't approve of.

{Time for more speculation and foundless rumors. Please note how I've started this section and when you disagree with me, realize that I'm basically saying this section is, in fact, a joke}. I wouldn't be surprised if France was engaged in bio/chem weapons production itself, and would feel guilty about attacking Iraq for the same.{/Baseless Slander}

In other words, while I agree that we shouldn't be going to war yet, I think that France is less than pristine about the issue. So again, I'm still not confident about the evidence they present either. Because of this, I'm not hardline pacifist. Either side could be right, but because neither is what I can call forthright, I'm still on the fence, thinking that, all things being equal, no war is better than war in most cases.

Now, on the other other hand, we have North Korea. Who has SAID they're working on nuclear weapons (though now they say they haven't said that), who breaks non proliferation treaties by skipping over the annullment procedure they agreed to. Who is building facilities in the public eye capable of producing weapons grade plutonium. Who basically say that if you don't sell them something they'll blow everyone up (give it a break, and embargo is NOT a declaration of war, it would NOT free your nation of guilt for the millions of deaths you'd cause). Now, if Iraq is so bad, why isn't North Korea. My first response is to say because they're not Muslim. But then again, I think there might be reasons for it. N Korea has acted this way before. It's their version of throwing a tantrum so they get their way.  So I'm not sure I agree that even if war in Iraq is justified, military action against N Korea is as well.  Yet, Bush is again shaping up for the same approach. Screw diplomacy, do as I say or we'll kick your butt. only, in this case, it's really, do as I say or we won't even talk to you and let you force us to kick your butt.

{sigh} I'm beginning to think of the end of the world in much closer terms.

Entropy in Exile

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Re: Frence Makeing sence.....What?!?!
« Reply #49 on: February 13, 2003, 10:34:42 AM »
i came across a deeply amusing conspiricy theory type thing, by someone who said he came up with it while considering frances actions. He said that france hates the US (or at least its leader's do) and so it is trying to bring the us down. since france cannot even begin to take on the US economically, militarily or politically (i doubt the entire EU could do that) it has to turn to covert means. This means arming people that hate the US. such as saddam hussain. The idea is this : france is against the war because when bangdad is captured we will find lots of interesting stuff saying how france gave them NBC weapons with the aim of fighting america, and terrorist activities aimed at america.
Like i said, its amusing, and even the guy who came up with it say's he think's it is unlikely in the extreme. Ill see if i cannot find the guy's post on the subject.


Entropy in Exile

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Re: Frence Makeing sence.....What?!?!
« Reply #51 on: February 13, 2003, 11:11:23 AM »
Just to precipate a atmosphere of linkomania here. Two comments on US/UK relationships, and how they look in reflection of the Falklands war, during which America came damn close to being an enemy, while france helped out immeasurably.

This one is from a left wing newspaper.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story/0,12271,893757,00.html
This one is from Edge of England’s sword, an anglo-american rightwing blogger.
http://englandssword.blogspot.com/2002_03_24_englandssword_archive.html#11213737

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Re: Frence Makeing sence.....What?!?!
« Reply #52 on: February 13, 2003, 08:59:00 PM »
Like I said, I'm not friend to Chirac. But some of those are jsut WAY out there. They have even less evidence than we have against Iraq. No wonder they're willing to go to war. I mean, it's just a rational thing.

These people think it's "obvious" that there is a reason to go to war. What they don't see is that it's "obvious" not everyone sees it that way. Because they miss this, it's "obvious" that anyone opposed to it is in league with the dark one. Please.

*ring* *ring* "It's the clue phone. They'd like to give you one."