Riddles Round 2

[Eric James Stone]

How big are the rods?

[Firemeboy]

I would say about the size of a roll of quarters, maybe slightly longer.  

[Eric James Stone]

I'd tie a piece of thread around the middle of each of the bars, and hold each bar up by the thread to see if it swung to point north-south like a magnetic compass.  The one that did so would be the magnet.

[Legion]

Floppy disks are made out of some magnetic material.  So you could also tie the thread on the rod, place it on the surface of the water and place the disk next to the glass on one side.  Which ever rod reacts to the disk being placed by the water is the magentic one.

[Firemeboy]

I'm not sure the first one would work.  And I'm pretty sure the second one wouldn't work.  Discs can be ruined by magnets, but I don't know if they are in fact magnetic...

There is a simpler way (and the puzzle does ask for the simplest way)...  

[Eric James Stone]

I'm pretty sure mine would work, but if there's a simpler way, then it's not the correct solution.

How about this: Stroke the blue rod lengthwise multiple times in the same direction using one end of red rode.  Then do the same to the red rod with the blue rod.  Presto: now they're both magnets!

[Firemeboy]

For a hint, there are red herrings on the table.

[Eric James Stone]

Aha!  Then why didn't you list them among our assets in the first place?

The red color in the herrings obviously comes from hemoglobin, and hemoglobin contains iron, and iron is attracted to magnets.  So you just put each rod close to a herring, and whichever one attracts the fish must be a magnet.

Q.E.D.

[Eric James Stone]

Or you could just leave the herrings out of this and try the following:

The poles of a magnet have much more attractive force toward ferrous materials than the middle.  

Place the blue rod on the table.  This is the "target" rod.  Put the red rod (the "puller") a few inches away, perpendicular to the blue rod and aligned with the middle of the blue rod.  Keep moving the red rod closer until the two rods touch.  Then do the same, reversing the colors of the rods.  In one of the two cases, the "target" rod will start rolling toward the "puller" much sooner.

Whichever rod is the magnet will pull the other rod toward it much more strongly when it is the one with the pole facing the middle of the other rod.  Therefore, the "puller" when that happens is the magnet.

[Firemeboy]

I guess I should know my magnet properties better than I do.  That might work, and it's quite easy.

The solution I had was to place the rods on a T.  Since all of the magnet's power is at the poles, or ends, there would be almost no attraction on the rod that is not a magnet, and serious attraction on the rod that is a magnet.

But your solution is just as easy, using only the two rods, so I say you're up.

[Eric James Stone]

Same as last time, only this time you can only ask yes-or-no questions. Update: realized that wouldn't work.

New version: This time, the answers will be no more than one word or identifying via pointing only one person or direction.

OK, back to the Island of Truthtellers, Lietellers, and Outcasts.

The rules this time:

Truthtellers always tell the truth.
Lietellers always lie by telling the exact opposite of the truth, when possible.
Outcasts alternate between telling the truth like Truthtellers and and lying like Lietellers.  Natives of the island know instinctively whether an outcast will next tell a lie or tell the truth, but an outsider like you lacks the necessary instinct.

You come upon a fork in the road.  A sign indicates that one path leads to the Fountain of Youth and that the other leads to the Pit of Despair.  Unfortunately, the sign doesn't have any arrows designating which is which.  But it does say that there will always be exactly one Truthteller and one Lieteller standing at the fork.  You may ask a total of two questions of any natives you find standing there -- either two questions to the same person, or one question to one person and one question to another.

Unfortunately, there aren't just two natives standing at the fork: there are ten.  One is a Truthteller and one is a Lieteller, and the rest are outcasts.  Unfortunately, there is no way for you to determine which group any of them belong to, other than by asking questions.

So, explain what two questions you would ask, of whom, in order to determine the way to the Fountain of Youth.

[Firemeboy]

Well, I would recognize the liar from the last time, and just ask him.



How about this...

"If I were to ask the an outcast to tell me what the truth teller would say if I asked which way the liar would tell me to go when I asked an outcast to tell me which way the truth teller would tell me when I'm asking the liar about the outcast, what direction would he point me in?"

Clearly I would glean everything I need from that question, and then I'd simply reverse it.

Ok, clarifying question...

If I ask one outcast a question, and he lies, does that mean that the next outcast will tell the truth, or only that outcast that just lied?  In other words, is the entire outcast tribe on the same rhythm?

[Eric James Stone]

The outcasts are each on their own rhythm.

[Firemeboy]

Ask somebody to point out the liar.  

The liar would point to the honest person.
The honest person would point to the liar.
And outcast would point to either the liar or the honest person depending on if they were telling the truth.

So, you are now talking to either the liar or the honest person.  I would ask them "If I were to ask the other person here, who is a member of a village, which way to the fountain of youth, what would they say?"

If you were talking to the liar, they would you to the pit of despair.  If you were talking to the honest person, they would point you to the pit of dispair.  So whichever way they tell you to go, you go the other way?

[Firemeboy]

I still feel like I'm skirting the 'real way' to do it.