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Messages - Cosmic_AC

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61
Brandon Sanderson / Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« on: March 24, 2008, 11:41:13 AM »
Quote from: Kelsier on March 15, 2008, 03:24:06 AM
Has anyone noticed the similarities between the word Hemallurgy and Metallurgy? It's possible this is the word Brandon twisted to come up with this name. Metallurgy, as some of you may know already, is the study of metals. You can probably see where I'd draw the connection.

Of course, this doesn't mean much—I just thought I'd mention it.

Feruchemy = Ferrus (iron, but the meaning can generalize to just "metals") + Alchemy (chemical magic).

Allomancy = Alloy (homogeneous mixture of pure elements, mostly metals) + --Mancy (magic).

Hemallurgy = Hemoglobin (a form of iron in the blood which has the unusual property of not being magnetic) + Metallurgy (study of metals, as you said).

EUOL just combined various words to name his magic systems, and the names fit.  Especially with what we know of the connection between Hemallurgy and blood.

Also, Comatose, I had the same idea: Feruchemy is exclusively Terris while Allomancy is exclusively "Noble" (whatever clan they are supposed to be).  Would it be too much of a stretch for Hemallurgy to be normally Skaa?  Especially with what we know of the Lord Ruler's breeding laws, it seems as though he didn't want anyone born who could combine two or more "metal magics".  Perhaps the blood sacrifice needed to create Inquisitors absolutely has to come from Skaa blood?

Ooh, one more thought.  There's been a lot of discussion of how Vin being a Hemallurgist doesn't "explain" her being able to draw on the mists.  Well, what if Hemallurgy worked similarly to Feruchemy -- that is, it could be reversed for another sort of power.  So if she used Hemallurgy before to enhance her Bronze, maybe she pushed away some mists and didn't realize it.  And then when she lost her earring maybe the power worked in reverse -- drawing mists in for power.  Pure speculation, but it's fun to think about.

62
Brandon Sanderson / Re: Atium Mistings?
« on: March 08, 2008, 10:24:28 AM »
That was my point before: people wouldn't.  Nobody would waste any metals on someone they didn't know was capable of Allomancy.  The only reason anyone knows about any Mistings is because the eight "basic" Metals are found in trace elements in things like silverware and metallic goblets.  Nobody force-feeds other people Pewter to see if they're potential Thugs; they just notice an increased strength one day and figure out that it's because they ate tomatoes or something from a dish that was made of pewter.  Similarly, Tineyes just experience greater sensitivity after drinking from a tin cup, etc.

Of course the metals they "discover" their powers with are impure, so they would obviously get a greatly diminished effect (just like Vin's "luck" was incredibly limited compared to what she can do now!)  However, the idea is that pretty much all of the "basic" Metals can be ingested unintentionally, and pretty much everyone has at least a few of them in their stomachs at any given time.

Mistborn, since they are able to burn any metal, know they can get away with burning stuff like atium, gold, electrum, duralumin, etc.  However, common people wouldn't even dream of wasting such precious metals unless they were sure it would work, or they didn't mind gagging up a few rare metals if it didn't.  Atium Mistings, if they even exist, would be tremendously rare because Atium itself is worth a fortune, and nobody wants to swallow any in case they can't use it.  Sure, they could probably puke most of it up again (like Vin did with the lead ball) but if it's only a slim chance, normal folks probably wouldn't waste their time.

Heck, for all we know all Nobles have some sort of Allomantic power; it's just that the people who seem "normal" either have yet to Snap or only have the ability to work with one of the more exotic metals -- and would think it a waste to try them all and see.

It's even possible that there are Aluminum and Duralumin Mistings, although these would be completely useless and about the same as normal people -- albeit normal people that can break down metals in their stomachs faster than most people.

And the more I think about Aluminum and Duralumin, the more I think there ought to be an eighth pair: one metal that augments someone else's power (like an External Duralumin) and another that inhibits someone else's power (like an External Aluminum).  Granted, the External-Aluminum family would be like cheating, in a way, but given the pattern, this really would make a lot of sense.

So far, what we know is that there are two metals for each type of effect: one for the Internal side of the effect, and one for the External side of the effect.  The alloy and the base metal form a pair of either the Internal or External attribute of the effect, with opposite results.  For example, Tin makes the user (Internal) physically sensitive, while Pewter (the alloy) makes the user (Internal) physically more durable and powerful.  Together with Iron and Steel, they form the "Physical" effect family; Iron and Steel are external effects.

Similarly, Atium tells what someone else will do in the future (External, Temporal, Future = Pushing?) while Malatium tells what someone has done in the past (External, Temporal, Past = Pulling?).  Gold tells what you looked like in the past, and I would assume that Electrum tells what you will do in the future (another way around Atium?  This would have a similar effect to what Vin did when she observed Zane observing her future actions, correct?).

Therefore, if the Effect for the Aluminum family is "Internal, Power" there must also be another base/alloy metal group that has yet to be discovered, which will either increase or decrease another person's power.  It also remains to be seen exactly to what degree the effect occurs, and how quickly or slowly the metal burns.  Malatium, for example, tells you someone else's distant past, while Atium only tells you someone else's very near future.  If there is a similar effect imbalance inherent in the "Power" families, then perhaps the "External, Power, Inhibition" metal only decreases the degree to which another person can use metals -- rather than snuffing them all out the way Aluminum does.  On the  other hand, it's possible that the "External, Power, Augmentation" metal increases someone else's power exponentially, and for an extended period of time, producing an effect much greater than Duralumin would!  There's no way of knowing.

Besides, metals can also have side-effects not necessarily reflected in their alloys or opposing families; Atium speeds up your reaction time so you can make sense of the future-images in time to act on them.  Malatium, however, does not seem to have an observable effect on the user's thinking processes.  In theory, Atium shouldn't even be able to speed up the user's thought processes, as it is generally considered an External effect.

There are exceptions to every rule, I suppose.

63
Brandon Sanderson / Re: A different way around atium [spoilers] and a question about atium
« on: February 29, 2008, 09:58:26 AM »
Quote from: Comfortable Madness on February 14, 2008, 02:21:07 PM
Take for example Vin's fight with Zane at the end of TWoA. Vin uses Zane's reactions to her own yet unformed attacks to trick him into a defensive posture for an attack that she, now knowing Zane had atium, never intended to do. The only reason she won the fight, in large part, was due to Zanes cockyness. He truly believed that he had all the advantages and thought that Vin did not stand a chance. Although, after writing this I'm going to have to go back and reread that scene to remember how exactly the end of that fight plays out.


IIRC, Vin remains indecisive about what she will do up until the last second.  At that time, Zane dodges in one direction (showing her what she would do in the next split-second) but she sees him dodge and instantly attacks in a different direction (because his dodge showed her what her next move was supposed to be, so she made a different move).  His reaction to what she was going to do changed what she was going to do, so she created TWO images instead of just one; if he had NOT dodged in that direction, she would have attacked in that direction (thus, only one image, but her attack still would have landed because he wouldn't have dodged, but since he did dodge, it made two images and she still hit him because she didn't attack in the direction he was going to dodge).

It's odd how that worked out, but it DOES make sense if you work it around in your head enough times.

64
Brandon Sanderson / Re: Theory on why Vin is so powerful *spoilers*
« on: February 29, 2008, 09:28:15 AM »
I actually had the idea that Hemalurgy was naturally supposed to be a Skaa power, judging by the Lord Ruler's treatment of them.  It might be that Hemalurgy, like Allomancy and Feruchemy, is an inherited trait.  So, it occurred to me that the whole "no Nobles may breed with Skaa" law was like the "no Feruchemists may retain manhood" law; a way to maintain control over the magic and make sure nobody except the Lord Ruler could imitate the feat of mixing all three powers.

If Vin is truly a Hemalurgist, that may explain her unnatural power.  However, I get the feeling that Hemalurgy is a lot more complex than just a form of enhanced Allomancy.  If it's truly a "third magic system" parallel to Allomancy and Feruchemy, then Hemalurgy probably has its own uses of the Metals -- and it has something to do with blood.  (obviously, since Hemoglobin is a form of iron in the blood).  An interesting thing about Hemoglobin, though, is that it has a molecular structure that negates the typical ferromagnetic properties of iron.  To put that in plain "English", blood-iron is one of the few forms of iron that cannot be magnetized.

...And THAT'S why Hemalurgy would explain Vin's power over the Lord Ruler.  Hemalurgy incorporates blood, and possibly involves the ability to transform Hemoglobin into something controllable (Ironpulling and Steelpushing most likely work in a magnetic fashion).  Thus, it doesn't matter whether the Lord Ruler's all-powerful rings are embedded in his skin if Vin is able to combine Allomancy and Hemalurgy.  She just has to take that earring out...

65
Brandon Sanderson / Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« on: February 23, 2008, 01:13:40 AM »
And that's another weird thing:

How can the Idrian Nobility be descended from Returned if Returned are unable to reproduce?

66
Brandon Sanderson / Re: Atium Mistings?
« on: February 22, 2008, 03:16:40 AM »
It certainly seems like Mistings of all the metals are possible, but the problem is knowing who is who.

All the "basic" metals -- the ones Mistings are known to use -- are present in trace amounts when one drinks from a metal cup, takes liquid from a metal pipe, eats from a plate, etc.  Thus, Mistings typically discover their powers "accidentally" when they ingest the metal.

That's the only way to know if you're a Misting: by burning something.

This is as good a reason as any as to why there are no Atium, Malatium, Gold, or Electrum Mistings; all of those metals are expensive and are not a part of a normal person's diet.  The only way these would get into your reserves would be if you ate them, which is not something a "normal" person would do.  Mistborn are the only ones who use those four metals, because they know they can use them.

For all "we" know, there could also (technically) be Mistings that are able to use Aluminum and Duralumin, but they'd be completely useless, since that pair neutralizes or augments the other metals.  Aluminum and Duralumin would drain the Misting's reserves of other metals, but the Misting would not use the other metals anyway, so what's the point?

By the way, it occurs to me that there ought to be an eighth pair -- one that neutralizes someone else's metals, and another that augments someone else's metals.  Perhaps that will be revealed in the third book.  Or perhaps it won't.

67
Brandon Sanderson / Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« on: February 22, 2008, 02:53:11 AM »
Minor, but not obvious, consistency error:

On page 49, it says that Returned are of the Eighth Heightening.  However, throughout the rest of the book, it says they are of the Fifth, and only the God-King's Breath is worth an Eighth Heightening.  Of course, with all his extra Breath, he is of the Tenth.

Also, it seems to me that the Heightenings that affect one's Awakening skills actually require much more Breath to be useful.  That is, if one has enough Breath to Awaken instinctively, he/she must still have more Breath to keep the ability, else he/she Awakens something and "forgets" how to un-Awaken or control it.  Is this the case, or is the instant knowledge of Awakening granted by the Sixth Heightening permanent?  i.e. is it like "I want to Awaken that cloth over there, hey, I know how!" or "Hey, I'm at the Sixth Heightening!  So, like, now I totally know how to go about Awakening thingies forEVAR!  Yippee!"

Just wondering.

68
Brandon Sanderson / Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« on: December 18, 2007, 08:26:38 AM »
Quote from: kasper11 on December 17, 2007, 05:02:26 PM
First, let me say congrats on the WOT announcement. Besides getting to write the last book of a series that you are obviously a fan of, you couldn't ask for better publicity (I am sure that I am not the only one discovering your stuff as a result).

I really liked Warbreaker a lot. I think it was a great read, and I am planning on picking up MB right after the holidays (assuming nobody buys it for me, is already on my list).

There were a couple of things that I felt were left unanswered, maybe I missed something so if anyone wants to point it out, would be appreciated.

1) What was Vasher doing in the tunnel and who followed him? This was a major issue as it led to Lightsong's path to self-discovery and Mercystar giving up her lifeless, which helped accelerate things. What was he searching for? And who followed him?

2) Why did the priests need an heir at this time? Siri thinks that it is because a stilborn has already been returned, but it was months before they even began pretending that she was pregnant, which means the stillborn would have been returned for over a year before they could swap it for Siri's kid, so it was probably already too late.

1) It seems like he was looking for that tunnel so he could expose the whole Pahn Kahl scheme early on.  it seems likely that the one who followed him and killed the servant was Denth or Tonk Fah.  However, this is just my guess because it's never really spelled out for the reader.  This is probably something that should be explained at least a little bit more in later editions.

2) Again, you're right: it's never explicitly stated why the whole heir thing is happening now.  All the reader has to go on is the endless guesses Siri and Susebron make, none of which are confirmed.  Although the Big Evil Conspiracy is revealed to be the work of some hundreds of Pahn Kahl agents, at least one faction of the priesthood is also somewhat shifty and their motives aren't as well explained.  It's a good thing there's still 6-9 more drafts to go through!  :)

69
Brandon Sanderson / Re: Warbreaker: Free Ebook
« on: December 15, 2007, 10:57:17 PM »
A few things that (to my knowledge) haven't been mentioned yet:

1. It seemed strange to me that you brought in the whole thing about the colorful flower being one of the big factors in the start of the War, but that was the only time you mentioned it.

2. It seems like normal Returned are unable to go without Breath for any length of time (as when Lightsong gives his breath to Sebby, then instantly becomes a dead Drab).  However, Vasher manages to go without Breath for extended periods of time.  This, I think, it a mechanic that really needs to be worked out and explained a bit more.  To be fair to the reader, I think you should at least have some indication that Returned can subsist on "stale" Breath - they're given one a week as a ritual thing, but they could be given four per month instead of one per week.

3. I also thought it was odd that although Vasher had significantly more Breath than Vivena, she was able to perform all the same Awakenings as Vasher - and with relative ease.  There is no sign that she practiced, or that it was much trouble at all for her to make the correct mental images.  Further, once she had Awakened said garments, she trusted them completely to do what she wanted.  In the course of what seemed like three days or so, she went from knowing nothing about Awakening to being about as skilled as Vasher.

4. It's unclear whether Vasher was the only God-Scholar or not.  It is revealed eventually that Denth, Shashara, and the Steel brothers were the other four Scholars, but the explanation for having them live so long could just be that they had a lot of Breath.  On the other hand, it's also possible that all five of them were Gods.  I'm not sure if this is intentional, but if not, you may want to clarify this point somewhere in the Epilogue as well.

5. A minor thing, but Denth's name (Varatridees) is just too similar to that of the God-King's priest (Tridees).  If this is supposed to show that they're related (as with Arsteel and Yesteel) then it's fine.  Otherwise it's a little odd.  I mean, these days there are a lot of people with similar names (I happen to know three different people named Karen and four different people named John) but in the old-days-fantasy setting everyone has his own name and there's rarely a need to bother with last names.  An uncanny similarity in the first name is enough to link characters (as shown when Vivenna "guesses" that Arsteel and Yesteel are brothers)  Also, there's a sort of subconscious-alerting similarity between "Tax" and "Talaxin" that provides a subliminal hint that Vasher was one of the Scholars as soon as the reader learns both names.  Not that I managed to figure it out until a few pages before he said so, but I was close because the hint was there.

6. Another thing that was sort of foreshadowed but not fulfilled was that each of the Scholars seemed to have a different field of study or special talent.  Denth/Varatridees' inhuman speed (he's like The Flash or Quicksilver or something) was shown repeatedly, as was Vasher's extensive knowledge of Awakening.  Shashara was obviously an expert at forging metals and would have been the one who further imbalanced the war by sharing her knowledge of how to imbue weapons.  Yesteel is, apparently, some sort of chemist.  But Arsteel is dead (so he's not likely to show any sort of power any time soon) and the only skill he's been shown to have is in dueling.  That seems suspiciously similar to Varatridees, though his ability could be some sort of variation on that (i.e. Vara had super-speed so Arsteel had super-strength or was just really good at dueling without any sort of special power).  And of course, now I'm assuming that the Five Scholars were really "special" and that they weren't just (very powerful) normal people who studied their field for so many centuries they just seemed inhuman.  Bah, I guess what I'm saying now is that I don't know what I'm saying.

7. The last apparent semi-inconsistency that occurred to me was that Nightblood was "programmed" to destroy evil, but he didn't know what evil was, but he had special evil-judging powers anyway, but they were activated by leeching breath, which is sort of "soul-sucking" like the One Ring, but Nightblood wasn't evil, but he was so innocent he did a lot of things that were apparently evil.  In short, it was odd that although Nightblood couldn't distinguish good and evil, he had the intrinsic ability to...distinguish good and evil.  That is, anyone who was "pure of heart" or "strong of mind" would not be tempted to draw Nightblood and would not go insane just from picking up the sheath.  I'm not really sure how else to explain it.  Sometimes I'm worse with words than Vasher.

EDIT: Some other things just occurred to me:

8. There's a lot of buildup about the conspiracy with the Priests.  Although it is revealed that Vasher is the one responsible for the tradition of muting the God-King, and Bluefingers is responsible for the instigation of the war between Idris and Hallandren, Tridees and his priests do seem to be manipulating the God-King somehow.  There must be some reason for their arrogance, secrecy, and deceit, but it is never shown.  In that moment when Siri realizes that it was Bluefingers pulling the strings all along, she (along with everyone else) seems to suddenly forget how sleazy Tridees is.  While most of the book is wrapped up nicely in a neat package by the end, this is one of the questions left hanging: If Tridees was really just trying to protect Siri and Seb, why did he act so evil?  And what was their plan for the God-King and his son?  In that climactic moment (okay, those four or five hundred climactic moments) that particular conspiracy is just forgotten and Siri suddenly trusts Tridees completely.  At least, that's what it looked like to me (and I may have to read it again because nobody else is commenting on these things.  Maybe the answers are obvious and there is no issue.)

9. There is also no explanation given for how the God-King passes down his Uberbreath without a tongue, or whose son ends up becoming the next King - Susebron's or someone else's.  I get the feeling it is someone else's son, though, since the other Returned cannot produce children, and the King hasn't been an exception so far.

10. Yet another mystery: why is it that when a Returned gives away its Uberbreath, the recipient gets completely healed instead of getting the Breath?

11. It seems like not all Breath is equal - a Returned's BioChroma alone (by what seem to be the rules of this magic system) is enough to achieve the Eighth Heightening, but fifty normal Breaths are required to achieve the First Heightening.  However, sick people seem to have "weak Breath" while healthy people have "strong Breath".  If that is the case, wouldn't it take, say, eighty "weak Breaths" to reach the First Heightening?  And since illness seems to be related to Breath, if you gave a sick person (one with weak Breath) a healthy Breath, would they be cured?  Why is it that Drab people don't get sick all the time?  (I would think that they would have a weaker immune system or something).  I guess all this is relatively minor, such as it is.  If you don't already have an explanation, you could probably get away with just saying that this aspect of BioChroma is still not understood well enough!

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