Timewaster's Guide Archive

Quote from: Moggle on February 22, 2010, 09:24:51 AM

I really really don't see why everyone makes such a HUGE deal about Martin killing off one of his main characters in book 1.   Yes he killed of Stark, although quite frankly I didn't care whether he lived or died to be honest, but aside from him has Martin killed off anyone else of real significance to anyone?  Every POV character is basically still alive and kicking unless I've completely missed something.  Everyone needs to get a grip for godsakes.  Martin killed off one of his characters in his first book.  He didn't invent the wheel.

Martin has killed off other PoVs, as well as other important side characters.  But really, I think you are missing the point.  Martin will either kill off a character or do some other horrible thing to them to give the readers a real sense of danger.  At any time, Martin could kill off any character.  This is a very different feel than what readers generally receive in the fantasy genre.  Take Jordan, for example.  I have yet to worry about any of his characters, because I know that they will live through any situation.  With Martin?  I dread those tough situations, because I know that interesting characters are going to die.

Erikson does this as well.  Especially by the end of the 3rd novel, you have a sense that no character is safe.  It isn't the body-count that matters, but what the deaths do to impact the rest of the story.

Get back to me when he kills off any combination of Jon, Arya, Sansa and Tyrion.  He's got alot of characters but how many are significant enough to care whether they live or die?   Stark was the only one and I didn't even care about him, but that's just me. Quite frankly his death is actually more of a plot device than anything else.  Rob was the second most significant but he was mostly a peripheral type character without even a POV.  His death did somewhat suprise me a little but I wasn't shocked that it happened.   It was more the context it happened in that surprised me.  Then there are characters like the Hound, Joffrey and Bart, but the deaths of these characters are literally expected.  I have absolutely no fear in the least that Martin will suddenly kill off Arya or any of the other Starks or Tyrion until it's time.   If he offs anyone else then who cares?

I really really don't see why everyone makes such a HUGE deal about Martin killing off one of his main characters in book 1.   Yes he killed of Stark, although quite frankly I didn't care whether he lived or died to be honest, but aside from him has Martin killed off anyone else of real significance to anyone?  Every POV character is basically still alive and kicking unless I've completely missed something.  Everyone needs to get a grip for godsakes.  Martin killed off one of his characters in his first book.  He didn't invent the wheel.

Moggle - Since you don't know me, or what I do, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt on your rudeness.  I reviews books.  All of them.  I used to manage a bookstore.  It was the #1 ranked Waldenbooks in the country--knowing what NOT to recommend is just as important (if not more so) than what TO recommend.  I've had some training from Brandon Sanderson's Agent on the ins-and-outs of that job description.  As a result, I read and finish pretty much every popular novel/series in the fantasy genre, and to a lesser extent SF, Horror and Mystery/Thriller.  I have had connections in the publishing industry for years now, and a large number of editors, agents, publicists and authors seem to appreciate my opinions (not to mention the the hundreds of readers who go to my review blog daily).

So, when I say I have an opinion on Terry Goodkind, it is because I have read his work.  All of it.  Same with Terry Brooks who I hate.  Stephanie Meyer who I hate.  Dan Brown who I hate.  If I only read books I liked, from a professional standpoint, I would be uninformed.  If I only read novels I liked, from a personal standpoint, I wouldn't appreciate the awesomeness of great authors as much as I do now.  I read books and series that I absolutely hate.  I do it so I can give people legitimate opinions on a wide variety of novels across various genres and sub-genres.  So don't insult me for having read books I detest so that I can have a complete and informed opinion.  You see, people in a surprising number of countries rely on me for my opinions.

The op asked for novels with strong female leads.  I gave a list of authors who have strong female characters who serve as leads.  A strong lead doesn't mean that they are the only character who has a PoV.  Once again, all of those authors have female characters who serve as leads.  If you've read all of those series, as other readers here will attest, then you know that these authors have some of the strongest female characters in all of literature.

Well that certainly explains why you would read an entire series despite hating it.  However this does not explain how you came to the conclusion that Kahlan is a moron and as for being a damsel in constant distress, does this archetype apply to someone who gets themselves out of trouble most of the time as opposed to a typical helpless damsel waiting for her knight in shining armor to do it?  In any case I won't press the issue, especially when your choices of strong female "leads" consists of cliched one dimensional characters like Ferro, the emotionally crippled warrior woman or Eilonwy the snarky, sarcastic and tough 15 year old girl or Cersei, the beautiful evil queen.   These characters may be interesting to you, but that doesn't make them strong female leads based on their characterization and it doesn't help that they have small supporting roles either.

Quote from: Lord Terrisman on February 01, 2010, 10:59:41 PM

I just don't want anyone getting mentally hurt.

Good aspiration. In my experience, recommending books you enjoy doesn't hurt anyone, mentally or physically, especially when the person you're recommending the books to has asked for recommendations. If someone takes offense, that's their problem, not yours.

Quote from: Moggle on February 01, 2010, 01:03:38 PM

If she's isn't, then who is?  Kahlan is actually much better than the two others I mentioned. 

I'm unfamiliar with the other two books you mentioned, although I have been meaning to read The Hunger Games. However, if Kahlan is better than those other two, I'll have to make sure not to read it when I'm in the mood for a REAL female protagonist. The Sword of Truth doesn't have those. It has Richard. Everyone else is secondary....

And Kahlan IS a love interest. Sure, she has her own adventures, but the only reason she's in the story is because she is a love interest.

She's a main character that happens to also be the love interest for another character, but that's not all she is.  There's a huge difference between being a fully developed character with their own motivations and goals to a simple plot device.  You don't devote roughly half of each of your books to a character if that's all he or she is.  

just be careful next time, you don't know who on here might mistakenly take you up on your recommendations

Just because you really disliked a book doesn't mean everyone else dislikes it. Obviously you like The Sword of Truth. Many people on here really DON'T like it. And I'm sure the 190 people on Amazon who reviewed The Blue Sword and gave it 5 stars disagree with you....

If I can save one life it was worth it.

Safety should always be the main concern.   

Quote from: Moggle on January 30, 2010, 11:23:03 AM

Anyone who would recommend you the Blue Sword is looking to hurt you mentally and possibly physically.

I find it ironic that you should say that, since you recommended Wizard's First Rule. Now, while I thought WFR was a decent book, Kahlan is not that great of a fantasy female. Plus, the writing is terrible (note that this statement is not just based on WFR, because I did like that one. It's the rest of the series (at least the ones I read) that make me say this)....

If she's isn't, then who is?  Kahlan is actually much better than the two others I mentioned.   

I have to second that... Kahlan is really more of a love interest with her own magic, and less of a real female protagonist.

By saying she's nothing more than a love interest what you're denoting is that she serves no other purpose in the plot of any of the books other than to be fawned over and rescued when in danger like most female love interests.   Is a character who has her own voice and POV and goes on her own harrowing adventures like a man in a medieval fantasy setting just a love interest?  That's not any love interest I ever read, whether they be man or woman.  That would defeat the whole purpose of them just being a love interest.

Ok my bad for recommending it.  I felt that it was a decent story (though I agree that the dialogue was lacking).  I didn't mean to insult or mentally harm anyone.

Ok just be careful next time, you don't know who on here might mistakenly take you up on your recommendations

Wizard's First Rule
Hunger Games
Graceling

But I've already made my proclaimation already.  I can't take it back even if I wanted to.   In any case you'll be changing your tune soon enough once you see Brendan Fraser playing one of the lead characters in the film.