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Messages - Andrew the Great

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91
Reading Excuses / Re: Email List + Submission Dates
« on: December 05, 2009, 07:02:58 AM »
Ok, well since we're already busy and my outline is still only three-quarters of the way done, I'll wait until next week to submit. You WILL get something from me then,though. I get first dibs on next week.

92
Writing Group / Re: NaNoWriMo?
« on: December 02, 2009, 12:12:45 AM »
Silk, you got in 35,000 words in two days? That's the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard in my life, even if it isn't particularly great.

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Ok. That makes sense. Still, I think it's funny to visualize all these people squatting as they train.

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Everything Else / Re: Geek guys
« on: December 01, 2009, 04:59:47 AM »
I thought it was pretty awesome. I actually laughed out loud several times.

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Ok, thoughts while reading (copied exactly):

How old is Anaiah now? She comes across right at first as a very young girl, but she talks like an older teenager at the youngest. No kid says, "because I'm so adorable"

Do women in this book ever wear anything other than gowns or, as Frog so aptly put it, "Chainmail Bikinis?"

What exactly are the Three? Now granted, I don't think I've read all of your stuff, but still, I'm quite confused.

Everyone's skirts have scales? That's different. What kind of animals live in this desert, anyway?

Parts of this seem like very tribal culture, but the relationships between the characters are very modern, not really tribal at all. IE, traditional father-daughter relationship in a tribe isn't "Sweetey (not exactly tribal word) I love you,"

So I've got a "Xena: Warrior Princess" type picture of all the women we've seen so far. Not sure if that's a good thing or not.

Sixteen seasons....so she's four? She can't be four. If she is, she's scary smart. Well, you said earlier that four seasons was less than two years, so that means that the oldest she can be is eight. Which is still kind of disturbing. She doesn't talk like a kid. Is this supposed to be sixteen years? That seems more reasonable.

I still can't place Anaiah's age. Now she's talking like an eight year-old maybe up to about twelve (this is just after people are throwing rocks at her)

Our wife? These people are polygimists? And apparently the woman in question had divine blood too?

The second section is awfully short, and it really doesn't add that much. We already know everything except when they're talking about their wife. If that's important, ok, but otherwise, I say cut it.

The trainer says, "We girls can't have the boys being better than us." Is that normal for this society? I'm kind of confused as to the gender attitudes in this society. Sometimes it comes across as male dominant, sometimes female dominant, and sometimes as a sort of weird competition.

If Anaiah's thighs are burning, she's not going to hold the stance regardless of whether she wants to or not. Have you ever tried to do squats with thighs that don't want to? Furthermore, why is she swinging a weapon from that stance anyway? Granted, the mental picture I'm getting is absolutely hilarious, but it doesn't work for warrior training.

I still can't visualize a choot, even with the descriptions.


Overall, this section is pretty good. I can definitely see how it contributes to the story more than I could last time. I'm interested to see how the conflict develops with the other children from the village thinking she's a witch and/or what Anaiah will do when she figures it out.

Anaiah is very inconsistent in this chapter as far as how she acts age-wise. I'm also having trouble figuring out exactly what type of society this is, or what kind of things they believe.

I'm interested to see more, but ditch the attempts to be cute. It works better that way. Besides, based on the tone of the other stuff so far, I'd say the people who are going to be reading this aren't going to be the people who will appreciate it anyway. 

EDIT: Here, just for kicks and giggles, this is a quick paint file I did of the lovely mental image I was getting of this whole training session.
 


You can probably see why I found it funny.

96
Ok, a couple of things.

Firstly, how do you look at someone sitting on the edge of a cliff and reason out their age with no other information about them? I was a little bit confused when Caramoth looked at Anaiah and immediately went, "Oh, she's two!"

The main problem that I had with this chapter was that while there was potential for conflict, I never really felt involved in it. It was like when I walk past someone in the hallway and hear their conversation, but don't really care what they're saying. You need to do something to make me care about what's happening. A lot of this could just be being more descriptive, and try to include more thoughts that clue us as to emotions. We can connect with emotions.

I strongly dislike the prologue. It started out with lots of promise, but it quickly degenerated into a whole bunch of stuff that I didn't understand, and quite frankly, didn't care about. It's so abstract, that it's really difficult to follow, and since I have no reason yet to care what happens to God (I feel so sacrilegious typing that), I would either a) put the book down (the most likely), b) skip it (If I had a recommendation), or c) skim it (if I had a really strong recommendation).

When you move into the actual chapter, it gets much better. It's fairly easy to follow, though there were some minor grammar issues that threw me for a moment. It does feel a bit info-dumpy, but I think with this being the first chapter, that's slightly excusable. We do need a description of the setting. You might try to work it into other things, instead of talking directly about it, but it still works even the way it is.

I do have a suggestion, though. If all we ever see of Anaiah is her older self, I would just start with that part of her story. It eliminates your problem of these people basically just telling their gods that they are wrong, and quite frankly, I don't think anyone really thinks that this part of the story is that important. Do we really need to hear it? Does the rest of the story make sense without it? What does it add? Your other chapters have kept me fairly interested so far, but this really doesn't. If for some reason we need to hear this part of the story, you might consider having Anaiah think about it a little once her character is developed, or if Caramoth is still around, he could talk about it a bit.

Now, keep in mind, I don't know the story beyond what I've read (which doesn't include any of the Anaiah chapters), so this might not work. Just suggestions.

Sorry to take so long to get to this, but NaNo kind of ate my life this month.

97
Reading Excuses / Re: November 30 - Recoverying Cynic - Oathbound - Ch. 4
« on: December 01, 2009, 01:10:28 AM »
Ok, overall, it was pretty good.

I'll go ahead and say that I like the first few chapters, but the real conflict starts here. If you're putting in the other chapters for the purpose of making us sympathize with Baltier more, you have to make us care about him. I'll agree with Chaos, I still don't really know Baltier, which makes it difficult to feel sorry for him. You may as well start here. If you write his emotions well at the beginning of the scene, and show how he's feeling vividly throughout, that works well.

I will say, however, that the one thing that works really well with the first few chapters that wouldn't work without them is your setting. This way, we already have some of the details we need to know, like the knights are supposed to help if you ring a bell, and we have a little knowledge of the hounds and such. I would say keep the chapters just for this, but on the rewrite focus on developing Baltier a bit more.

I just thought that I would agree with everyone else that Baltier is so dead at the end of this chapter.

Ok, let me quickly post my thoughts while reading.

About the ravine: Ok, I’m now confused as to the size of this thing. A brook to me is only slightly larger than a stream. You also mentioned earlier that it’s a shallow ravine. So that has me thinking small. But it’s wide, and apparently twenty feet deep. That's not shallow. This needs some clarification.

About the wardline: I know you might be saving it for later, but these wards have been mentioned often enough that it would be nice to have some sort of explanation. I’m getting tired of thinking of them as the mysterious ward that everyone but me knows about.

About Baltier's hunting: Ok, he’s really good at stalking prey, but is bad with a bow? If he’s been hunting for long at all, one of the first things to do is become a pretty dang good shot, or you ruin arrows and go hungry.

About the hound: Hairless? That’s interesting. Never seen a dog that was completely hairless before. Is it just really short hair, or is the hound actually hairless?

About the positioning of the hound: How big is this thing? Head + Shoulders = about half of body is visible in my opinion, not mostly hidden. Though granted, I don't know much about dogs, particularly not fictional ones that don't really resemble dogs.

About the use of the word "poking" to describe the hound's position over the ravine: I don’t know why, but I laughed when I read this. It just doesn’t equate in my mind with the image I so far have of a hound.

About the hound getting the doe: Ok, the hound just covered more than thirty feet in less than a second. Why does it even bother stalking prey? It could hunt down pretty much anything.

About dew claws: What exactly is a dew claw? Is it something that every dog has that I just don’t know about, or is it something unique to these hounds? If the second, it needs to be explained. If the first, it might still need to be explained, for people like me who don’t know stuff like that.

About hound venom: They’re poisonous too? Good night, how does anybody manage to take these things on? I mean obviously the knights have something that makes them awesome, but still….

About the wildmen: Why doesn’t the hound eat the wildmen? You mentioned that they do eat humans, but apparently not wildmen, even though they appear to control them? I mean, sure they could be useful, but if you ran out of prey for a while, your pack of followers starts to look mighty good. It's kind of like eating a horse once your food runs out. Besides, the hound doesn't appear to need the wildmen - why not just eat the easy source of food?

About Baltier's reactions to the wildmen: Ummm, what? Ok, this would be a great time for some explanation instead of more of this character knowing everything but the reader doesn’t. Alright, just to clarify that one, I'm getting really annoyed to see all these terms that I don't understand. I'm ok with not having them explained for a bit, but I need to start to get a few answers a little at a time or I'm going to just get frustrated that you expect me to know what all these things are. If Baltier knows that the wildmen aren't human, and why that is, he could share it with us. Failing that, we could get a little bit of explanation about something else, like the wardline, or why exactly the knights are so epic, or such. The info on the hounds was good, by the way. Sorry to get a little frustrated here. [/rant] I'm sure that part of the problem is the fact that I'm reading one chapter per week, whereas normally I would have gotten this far in about 30 minutes of reading.

About Baltier's relationship with Mariana, specifically the line where he says, "When had he started caring so much about Mariana?": (Yey for excessive punctuation!) This seems a little out of place. He obviously cares about Mariana, but at the same time, he's always annoyed with her. We all wonder why he cares about her, what with him seeming to be constantly annoyed, but at the same time, we know that he cares, even though we don't know why. So that made no sense whatsoever, but I hope you understand what I'm saying here. I certainly don't, and I don't even remember enough to clarify.

About the horse slamming into Baltier: The horse runs into him? And he’s not dead? And the horse isn’t lying on the ground in a tangled mess? I don’t buy it. The knight might clip him and knock him down, but slamming into him, they’re all going down in a heap.

About the reins: Baltier hanging on the reins + horse jumping forward = turning horse.

About the knight: Why so casual after magicking Baltier? He was obviously in a rush before he saw Baltier, so why not after?

About the line where Baltier thinks, "Marshall would look at him with his chubby baby grin, and he would pick him up, and toss him, and . . .": What? He would pick him up and toss him? I can maybe see playing with the kid, but this really sounds to me like he's throwing Marshall. Like across a room. Which isn't good. Consider rephrasing.

What, exactly, does it mean to be venom-scarred? Not that that's not an ok thing to have, but I honestly don't know. Again, this really isn't a critical issue, but it does make me wonder...

About Baltier seeking revenge on the hound: Ok, I can see that he's upset, but he's had a few minutes to adjust to the idea that his family is dead. He thought about that the whole way home. He knows he can't take a hound, and that doing so is pretty much suicidal. I still think that he wouldn't run outside to take on the hound. Now, I'd probably believe you if you said he did, as some people would, but I personally would be more inclined to plot a less risky way to kill it.

About Baltier not dying: How is he not dead yet? Furthermore, why isn't he going to die (since he's obviously not going to)?

And I agree about Baltier's thoughts sometimes being too light.

I'm also beginning to wonder how the prologue relates at all to the rest of the story. It was compelling, and very good, but I'm not seeing any sort of connection here except the knights, and we really didn't learn much about them there at all.

The writing was very good, though. I didn't have enough significant line edits for it to be worth sending. I'm excited to see more!

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Reading Excuses / Re: Godsplay Prologue
« on: November 30, 2009, 07:36:22 AM »
Ok, just finished this one (sorry that it's so late).

Initial thoughts....wow. This is very similar to other books that I read and love, so very very good. Has a very gritty, Dark-Fantasy type feel.

This could be both a good thing and a bad thing. You mention that the rest of the book lightens up a bit. You want to make sure that you're not making promises in your prologue that your not going to deliver on. The prologue sets the tone as a strong dark fantasy. If you're going to lighten it up, I'd lighten the prologue just a bit too. Otherwise, the dark-fantasy crowd are going to be disappointed, and many of the lighter people won't get to the actual story.

If you're going to keep the same general feel, though, this is fantastic. Kept me reading straight through to the end, and I can't wait to get more.

I didn't notice any grammatical mistakes that really took me out of world, so I'll ignore those.

As others have mentioned, there was some confusion as to whether Cien actually had a flashback or not. The calm moments were good, but it also made it seem less urgent that they get out, which later seemed suddenly very important.

Quick question. Is this supposed to be in our world, or a different one? I was a little confused when you talked about dragons and all sorts of other traditional fantasy elements (like sorcery), and then all of a sudden we get Philosophies of Erasmus. You might consider making up the name of a philosopher from your alternate-reality/other world, since it kind of confused me as to the setting.

Other than that, though, I have very very few qualms with this. Thanks for a great read! 

99
Writing Group / Re: NaNoWriMo?
« on: November 30, 2009, 07:10:10 AM »
Basically what he said. Though, I wrote 8k today, and it took me 7 hours, so maybe my estimate of 4-5 hours a day is a little optimistic.

Anyway, came back to report that I just won, with a wordcount of 50,127. I can now go back and fix the multitudes of issues that have sprung up within my novel.

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Reading Excuses / Re: Email List + Submission Dates
« on: November 29, 2009, 08:00:10 AM »
Yeah, nothing from me this week. Last week's submission made me realize that I've got to go back and fix a lot of issues before moving on. NaNoWriMo has helped me develop my story in new ways that I never expected (42k words, by the way), but it's also resulted in a lot of crap that really isn't necessary.

I'll be attempting to fix chapter 3 this week once I finish NaNoWriMo, and I'll also be doing some extensive outlining. So the moral of the story is, if I submit at all, it will be later in the week, and will depend entirely on how well my outlining goes and how many other people submit.

101
Reading Excuses / Re: Nov 23 - Andrew the Great - Lawless Ch 3
« on: November 29, 2009, 04:44:49 AM »
Yep. I'm at 38k right now for NaNo and I plan to get another 3 or 4k in before going to bed tonight.

After I finish, I've decided that I'm going to redo this chapter, starting back a little further in the story. This point in the plot will be moved up further. I think the new writing will work out much better. That will be my next submission, probably later next week, since I'll miss the Monday deadline due to NaNo.

Sorry again for the rough quality.

On the plus side, later when I actually have you interested in my story, if you feel like torturing yourself a little, you can glean some information that I didn't mean to give you just yet from this chapter. Though if I actually manage to interest you in my story enough for you to do that, I would be far too happy to care.

Oh, and if makes either of you feel better, I'll make Rasheda die much more quickly in the rewrite, when I get to it. If she's there at all. I'm actually considering an alternate plot that allows me to cut down the backstory a bit. I haven't reached the point yet where I have to decide, though, so we'll get to that later.

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Overall I liked this chapter. After the dark tone of the last two, it was nice to have a little lighter stuff, though I certainly hope it gets darker.

I agree that Mariana isn't completely believable. I think it's the simple fact that she gets virtually no development, and then we see her in a scene in which she's a fully developed character. This might be solved by having Bal reflect a little more about how much she's changed in the last two years.

The house seems like a convenient excuse for Bal to have survived. I'd much prefer it if he'd struggled hard through the first year with little more than a shelter, then had managed to build a house the next year. It makes us appreciate the difficulties of the frontier more. Plus, it makes the 'frontier' setting more believable. People don't find random houses on the frontier, or if they do, there's a good reason why they're abandoned. If the previous owner died, why didn't Bal and Mariana? I'm a little confused here.

Overall, it was fairly solid prose-wise, though I agree that last chapter was better in that respect. But then, that could also just be action versus setup.

I agree with Chaos, so far my primary issue is the time changes.

This chapter was less interesting, but you definitely haven't lost my interest yet.

103
Reading Excuses / Re: Godsplay Prologue
« on: November 28, 2009, 11:42:42 PM »
For whatever reason, this actually came through shortly after I posted that i didn't get it. I'm not sure what the issue was, but I have it now, so I'll critique it when I have a bit more time later tonight.

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Reading Excuses / Re: Nov 23 - Andrew the Great - Lawless Ch 3
« on: November 28, 2009, 11:37:51 PM »
Yeah, sorry on the roughness of that particular scene. I've decided that I'm moving Aedon's whole plot-line back to a scene earlier, so you'll catch a lot of your questions in some of those scenes, and this actual scene will come later in the story with much less of an infodump. That should fix many much of the problems.

Reading through, you're right, the power balance is really vague. I do know the answers to your questions, and some of them should have been answered here, I just wrote with some real clarity issues.

OK, so here's the first thing. Aedon has made the other Deviators in the empire swear loyalty to him. I didn't explain the way the oaths work because it's really, really complicated. I'll get into it a little later, but there's enough info dumped in this chapter already without me going into some really complicated Deviation.

I probably ought to delve into the lives of mages more, but in the future there's a viewpoint character from the Battalion, so I won't. In fact, I'll probably go with a little less here. You're right, though, I'm still writing this with the wrong perspective. You see, most of the population dreads becoming a mage because they've only seen a very limited side of the Mage Battalion and the way Deviators are treated. Once they're actually in the Battalion, people tend to like Deviating quite a lot, along with the power it gives them. Aedon should agree with the second viewpoint more than the first. This was a mistake, most likely due to the fact that I've been writing from Khyus' perspective before this, and Khyus doesn't really know anything about the Battalion.

Kreala = another civilization, currently at war with Aedon's empire. Sorry if that was unclear. It's gonna be kind of important in the future, though, so it is kind of important that it be clearer. Sorry for that lack of clarity.

Assassin-mages are in fact mages, just not Deviators (though their magic works in a somewhat similar fashion). And the Kreala do have Deviators too, just not in the same way that the Aedonians have Deviators. So wherever I mentioned the Kreala not having mages was a mistake. Sorry!

Yes, the mages coming to guard Aedon's study materialized without any backlash. Good catch. There is a reason for this, and it's not that they're super amazing or know something that the other characters don't know. It's actually fairly simple, and you'll see it later, so don't worry about this overly much.

Aedon uses Delren as a "glorified phone operator" because he doesn't know who is with Lenalt, while Delren does. Again, sorry for the lack of clarity.

Yeah, Aedon does sound a lot like Quinn. That's a problem. A big one. I'll work on writing him slightly differently so that he doesn't sound exactly the same.  And actually, there are a couple of things in this chapter that are completely out of character for Aedon. Like the whole thing with the rebel mages. He wouldn't do that. He'd just execute them and be done with it. He might briefly make an example of Rasheda (I think that was her name), but he wouldn't enjoy it nearly as much as he seemed to in the text. I think he probably wasn't entirely clear in my mind when I wrote this, which resulted in him being this vague hybrid between himself and Quinn.

Again, sorry for the confusion on the Mage Battalion. This is one area that was still a little vague in my head when I wrote this. Most of the magi have a specific "Squad" to which they are assigned, with the ranking system continuing all the way up to Relea, the First Chaosmagi. There are a few who have posts outside the standard heirarchy, though, which is what I was writing all of the magi as. Which really doesn't work. So I'll have to fix this on the rewrite, and in future chapters before I submit.

And once again, I apologize for the really rough writing. We're deep into NaNoWriMo stuff now, and I only did a quick once-over for editing, not really changing any of the content. So hopefully we won't have anything too rough in the future. I'm still 15k away from finishing, so I'll be doing some heavy writing in the next few days, but I won't submit anything this week if I can't get it polished up a bit. Well, a lot. It doesn't do much good anyway to submit something that bad.

Power balance....yes. This is mostly just a result of really really bad writing and me not being clear enough in my really really bad writing. It goes something like this:

Aedon is the most skilled Deviator in the world. He can do basically anything that other Deviators can, and a lot of things that others can't. He's a very good duelist, though, because his reactions are almost always exactly what they should be to stop whatever the other person is doing. He doesn't make very many mistakes. He also has around 300 Deviators at his beck and call, since all have sworn loyalty to him. Most of these Deviators hold no particular loyalties, but will come because of their oath of loyalty.

Relea is a very skillful Deviator. She is mostly happy with her position as First Chaosmage, but if she saw the opportunity to overthrow Aedon, she would. Her oath of loyalty prevents her from directly trying to kill Aedon, but Aedon knows that she will do anything she can to work around her oath if it means she gets the book. It is also important to note (which I didn't in the text, which is a big mistake) that Relea's oath of loyalty was not the same as the other magi. I should have explained this and how it happened that way, but I totally missed it in the text. I'll try to catch it later on. Anyway, once Relea has the book, Aedon thinks she will be powerful enough to break through the Deviation that makes her oath binding, and overthrow him. This is actually supposed to be Aedon being paranoid, guarding against all possibilities, but it came across as him being afraid of Relea. Relea doesn't actually rival him, but she could possibly beat him in a duel if she got lucky (sorry LTU [can I call you that? It's so much easier]), as she's skilled enough to hold her own for a few minutes, and random circumstances sometimes change the outcome of a duel (as will be seen later).

The power balance issue is mostly a clarity issue, and my current problem of not mentioning what characters can't do, making it sound like they are all super-powered.

On the re-write, I'll flesh out the Emperor's rise to power, but I'll probably do so a little more gradually than this "BOOM - 90 pages of backstory" approach.

And I just re-read this. Wow. It's pretty bad. Sorry everybody. If nothing else, the length of this post (all of which is explaining things that should have been clear in the text) is a testament to the quality of work submitted.

105
My issues were extremely similar to Chaos.

I'll be honest, I didn't like it. There's very good potential if you rewrite it to make it more interesting, but there was very little to actually catch my interest.

The problem isn't that you are using cliche settings or systems - that's fine. The problem is that we don't see anything different from the cliche. Until we do, we go, "I've heard this story before. Why read it again?"

The dome is good. Keep the dome. Move the dome up.

Your story suffers from the same issues as mine does, though. At this point, there is no plot. There is no reason to care.

Now I typically give an author fifty pages to get me interested, unless I've got a recommendation from a friend, so you definitely haven't lost me yet. But you've got to get something interesting going fairly soon, or you will lose me.

I want to make sure I say, there's a lot you can do with the setting you've established. None of it is fundamentally flawed, just the way it's used in this scene doesn't work.

You should also remember that you are getting critiqued by a bunch of dark-fantasy-lovers who are mostly firm believers in hard magic systems as well, and are used to reading huge tomes with nine thousand characters and a huge world with a decently steep learning curve. We get bored easily when we're reading things that are simpler than that, but there are a WHOLE lot of people out there who live for it. If you're writing a story set in such a world and all we ever critique is that we don't like your setting or your system, that means your doing it very well.

However, if you're shooting for our crowd....that's not good.

Overall, though, it had some real potential. Keep it coming, and try to add more tension to the scene.

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