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Messages - Vintage

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31
Brandon Sanderson / Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« on: May 20, 2008, 03:39:17 AM »
I do not understand one thing. Why do you see Preservation as static and not wanting change ? Isn't preservation also for life ? What does it want to preserve ? Why do you think it want to preserve things in a static way ? Don't we talk about life preservation ? If so, life is also movement but not ruin.

Ruin is suppose to be opposite to Preservation. If that is so, you are saying that ruin is change... I really don't see change as a mean of ruin, though, or why would ruin be so dramatic ? To me ruin equals destruction, pretty much what Vin felt at the Well's spirit. And preservation means to preserve life by all means whatever the cost.

A picture of this would be the mistwraight that eat dead stuff just to make it "similarly" live in them again, Kandra eat dead corpse and give them a second life, the Mist Spirit intends and makes Elend stronger in making him a Mistborn, the snapping is also a mean of preservation since it does give a second life to those who snapped, etc.

On the opposite, lives have to be taken to create an inquisitor, they do not continue in any other way. We do see quite clearly and in plain sight that inquisitors are there to destroy (Vin's mom who killed her sister, Zane who was told to kill everybody - but Vin, Marsh that had to kill Sazed, etc...) and not to preserve anything except the power of the evil that was hiding in the Well.

We know that the Lord Ruler touched only one power, Ruin OR Preservation. Most of you guys believe he touched Preservation because of its disgust of change, but what is static is bound to deteriorate and at the end, die. If you do not go forward, you go backward. If you do not progress, you go reverse. Life is not static and somehow, I do not see it as Ruin either. Life is movement. People grow older but bare their own seed before they die - that is life preservation, plants grow bigger and they bare their own seed before they die. Each go into multiple phase before they die. You cannot say that is static, and you cannot say that is destruction either.

If OreSeur/TenSoon thinks that TLR created the Kandra, he also stipulates that his memory doesn't go that far. No Kandra alive has seen the beginning of its race and like the Terris people, they have to believe what TLR wants them to believe. You have to remember that anything that was told by TLR cannot be trusted. It is not certain at all that he did create Kandras. It is just like him wanting to believe he is God and knows both powers, like Brandon says in his annotations. He did lie to people, and that could also be another one of those.

Let's not jump to conclusion to fast.

Qarlin, it is certainly a possiblity that the entity or spirit living and trapped in the Well could have been there by the will of Preservation. But this power, we have to remember as per Alendi's logbook and Vin's impression, is evil and wants destruction not because it's mean, but simply because it is all it aspires. In this case, the power would belong to Ruin. Remember, the power is sentient and devious.

32
Brandon Sanderson / Re: Finished Reading Elantris the Other Day
« on: May 20, 2008, 03:07:21 AM »
I agree with Sarah on one thing though. A happy ending is always less depressing. We have our whole lives to take care of that side.

We cannot ask of Elantris to have the deepness of books much thicker, or stories that last book after books. It takes words to develop a character. It takes also words to deepen a plot. Hrathen might be having some internal tears, but let's face it. You cannot compare it to Fitz or Soldier's son internal combat of values. But then, we see Fitz in 6 books, and Soldier's son in 3. Elantris is a nice little story, something like a bed story. Hrathen is the big bad wolf, Raoden the poor prince in trouble, and Serene the princess that flies to save him... Well, the other bad guy is the cyclop somewhere : a single eye point of view.

For the number of pages, it is a good story just like it is right now.

33
Brandon Sanderson / Re: MB1 Prologue Epigraph Thingy
« on: May 19, 2008, 03:55:33 PM »
In a lot of school, you have tests and exams (or whatever you may call it where you are) right now. Every student might just be studying hard (plus Chaos works as well) and concentrate on that. I don't worry. Especially since it seemed that before we got a few little things organize, we seemed not to get very far. They'll be back.

This is what I mean. In MB2, when Elend is attacked and wounded by the Mist Spirit, Brandon specifies that Elend's blood was flowing into the liquid metal lake and WAS NOT mixing. If he specified it, there must be a reason. Now, when the liquid got into Vin, it could not possibly just got in her or else she would have exploded. What I think is that it... what's the word... became one with her  whole being, therefore her blood and the metal mixed perfectly, even that the liquid metal became her very blood.

Now, when Alendi was in the same position, filled with awe with the power and looking at a future, Rashek should have been able to "surprise" him. Now, I am not saying that is what happened, only rambling. But, what would happen if Rashek would have killed Alendi right at this moment, when both blood and liquid metal are one ? Would that not be a perfect mix to create someone with a power so great and "natural" ? Otherwise, if you need a blood bath to be able to use hemalurgic power, would that not be the very best one ?

34
Brandon Sanderson / Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« on: May 19, 2008, 03:34:12 PM »
Except that is evident for everyone that the Mist Spirit is against the Well Spirit. If the Well's power was from Preservation and that is the power Rashek touched, than it follows that the Mist Spirit is from Ruin and therefore cannot be compassionnate or benevolent. Of course, if the Well's power tends after Ruin, than it would make the Mist Spirit of Preservation and I would understand it would want to preserve Elend's life. Do you see the clear contradiction ? The only thing I wish to understand is its motivation. I don't mind whatever it is, just want to know.

35
Brandon Sanderson / Re: MB1 Prologue Epigraph Thingy
« on: May 19, 2008, 01:48:16 AM »
Don't worry. Activity is always very low here on week ends. Now that we are all equipped, maybe we can work ? What did you think of my thoughts on the previous page ? I had no reflexions at all... Working so hard and be ignore  :'( Not fair.

Ok Just go back and tear it apart  ;D

36
Brandon Sanderson / Re: MB1 Prologue Epigraph Thingy
« on: May 18, 2008, 04:23:37 AM »
Vambram, what you read is not the logbook but only my thoughts after rereading it as a whole. I had a lot of fun compiling it though and I am happy to be of help to anyone.

37
Brandon Sanderson / Re: Ashfalls
« on: May 17, 2008, 01:43:15 PM »
You're right, Qarlin, now that you mention it, I do remember about the sweating, even in MB1's prologue, with Tresting and the Obligator checking them work.

It could also be that the poles have changed dramatically. What would happen if the earth would turn for 90 degree ? And to be able to talk about the Northern Dominance, you have to be able to go still a little bit more North, considering that Terris is even more to the North that that one. Well a pole is quite large, in all cases.

38
Brandon Sanderson / Re: MB1 Prologue Epigraph Thingy
« on: May 17, 2008, 04:08:30 AM »
I don't feel comfortable about printing it on internet just like that, but yes, I have it all compiled. I will e-mail it to you if you left your e-mail address in your profile. Otherwise, I will be waiting for you to give it to me. I will send it to whoever ask for it as long as you showed some interest in the question to begin with.

So here as promised. I have the logbook beside me. 7 pages of it !


Chap. 5 - The Terris philosophers (which were already corrupted by Ruin) told Alendi that when he will be faced with his choices, he will know his duty - When Vin is at the Well, is it Vin's reflexion on the logbook which tells her not to keep the power for herself  or is it Ruin still murmuring to her ?

Chap. 6 - Funny thing, it seems that the Deepness could only be defeated in Terris, not only as per the philosophers saying but also because Alendi could feel the pulsing of the Well.

Chap. 14 - Here is the first mention about shadows that follow him. And in chap. 20, not only does he change his mind about it not being a shadow, but it passes from plural to singular. Well, he describes it well enough that we know that it is the Mist Spirit. But what I notice now is that he first describe it as a "dark forg. Or mist, perhaps." We do know now that the mist is at the base of the three magic systems. Therefore, the mist had to be around during the time feruchemy came to be however this happened. Therefore, Alendi does not say a dark mist, he says a dark fog, and gets more precise in saying "or mist", as if a dark fog would be mist. But... if this is the case, the sun, in those days was still yellow, and the grass, still green. Could there be mist and ashfalls only at night ? Or could its darkness not come from the ash as I previously thought ?

Chap. 22 talks of the Deepness as briging a blight that infected nearly every part of the land. Armies are useless before it. Great cities are laid low by its power. Crops fail, and the land dies. I must admit that Vin's deduction puts us on tract here. I would tend to follow her line of thought, but also, I do wonder... Eventhough the Terris countryside was before described as a green environment, could it be that in some part of the earth there could already be some brownish plants ? Could it be a type of slow poison ? I am no botanist, I have no clue, really, beside the word "blight" and the accent on the crops and land and not on people, as we now see with the mist killing people.

Chap. 23, Alendi confirms that the pulsing from the mountains is drawing him closer.

Chap. 27 mentions the piercings of the Hero, but there is no more indication for it.

Chap. 28 talks more of the Deepness.

Quote
I have seen it, and I have felt it. This name we give it is too weak a word, I think. Yes, it is deep and unfathomable, but it is also terrible. Many do not realize that it is sentient, but I have sensed its mind, such that it is, the few times I have confronted it directly.
It is a thing of destruction, madness, and corruption. It would destroy this world not out of spite or  out of animosity, but simply because that is what it does.

Now let's read p.577 of MB2

Quote
"What happened ?" he asked.
She shook her head, leaning against the stones of the battlement. She could still hear that terrible, booming voice. I am FREE...
...
"What happened to the power ? Ham didn't have a straight answer for me, and all anyone else knows are rumors."
"I set something free", she whispered. "Something that shouldn't have been released; something that led me to the Well. I should never have gone looking for it, Elend."
Elend stood in silence, still regarding the city.
She turned, burying her head in his chest. "It was terrible," she said. "I could feel that. And I set it free."

Do you see the similitude ? Both the Deepness and whatever was liberated at the Well have the same description. Same words. I would say they are brothers... or father and son.

Now chap. 32 brings answers maybe to a few questions that we did ask. We learn that Terrismen were speaking with awe about the beauties and wonder of Khlenni, especially its cathedrals, with their amazing stained glass windows and broad halls. Also, young Terrismen, back to the city would trade their furs and skins for well-tailored gentlemen's suits. Well, one thousand years later, the windows of Kredik Shaw were still of stained glass and the halls of every keep and palace were broad all right ! Could Luthadel actually be Khlenni ? At least we do know why Rashek had those windows tainted now.

Chap. 33 brings another hint I think. It was said that only in Terris could the Deepness be defeated, but here it is said that the altitude was somehow affecting it a natural way and that the Deepness was loosing its oppressive touch. This part of the logbook also talks about Fedik which the Mist Spirit attacked. It is Fedik that discovered the metal lake and Alendi expresses his regret that he did not let him take a sample of the liquid. Note that Alendi does not talk of wanting to get to the lake himself. He only rejoices because now Fedik has seen the Mist Spirit also.

 Chap. 35 Alendi talks about the choice he has to make. Somehow he has seen what would happen if he would take the power for himself. Vin also saw a future when filled with the Well's liquid. Now how did Alendi see the future if it is not at the Well ? This is partly what bugs me. Would it be possible that Alendi did not have to take his choice right at the moment when the Well's liquid got into him - if he went that far, of course. But this is what really make me wonder. Would it be possible that Alendi would have been filed with the well's liquid, seen the future, and then take his decision about the power only after a little while ? And after a last ode to the yellow sun in chapter 37, Alendi expresses his fears of Rashek in the last chapter.

Could it be possible that still in the Well, still filed with the liquid, Rashek could have ceased his chance (Kwaan had said in his steel plate that Alendi was very hard to surprise and very strong, so much he was not sure Rashek could get him), jump in the Well (now dry) and killed Alendi right then ? The liquid that did not want to mix with Elend's blood would have perfectly mixed with Alendi's blood like this, no ? Both liquid and blood coming out of the man at the same time and filing again the one that stands there ? The one Rashek, of course, creating his hemalurgic powers and he becoming the "Hero" without even having attempted to be the one. It would fit more with the character I think, the character of Rashek before he had become the despotic tyrant that TLR was.

Now ends my rambling for the night. Have fun with it. Work with it and do ask for the logbook.

Edit- Comatose, I e-mailed you the logbook  :D

39
Brandon Sanderson / Re: Finished Reading Elantris the Other Day
« on: May 17, 2008, 02:01:44 AM »
Same thing for me. Elantris was my introduction to Brandon Sanderson. I had bought the book over the internet along with MB1. My ! The following week I was at the book store to buy MB2.

I could barely lift my head from the book and for a whole week, I woke up each morning having to pick up the book that had fell from my sleepy hands sometime over night. I was so hooked... so now, having to wait is kind of hard.

To go back to Elantris, I guess I would favor Raoden and his infaillible (or nearly) good spirit. This is a very nice attitude on anybody who goes through a trial of some sort. Keep smiling, evil shall pass soon or later. Second would be Serene, fragile and yet she goes straight to her goal. I was so sad when she said to Raoden (when she did not know who he was) that she was to marry him strictly for political reason. But he overcomed this as everything else. Both had the same sense of duty, which is a great thing to share in a couple. Somewhere, there must be  a real Raoden and a real Serene living a very full life. As for a third... I must say that I cannot like Hrathen. Not that he was not a great character, but he wasn't really clear... as some would say, he was not always walking in the Light. I don't like shadow particularly. I liked Serene's uncle though. I forget the name... old age lol. For the same reason than Raoden, actually. Eventhough a great injustice had been done to him, he found a new life. He did not let himself depressed by the situation, but built itself a good life, a nice family. He was a loving man, and also a man of duty... once he had lost his kingdom.

But like them or not, all characters are deeply... hum... searching my word, I guess I'm tired. Well you have to like them even those that are definitely not lovable too much like that snake of Monk...

The action keeps you on your toes, too. But at the end, I really did not have enough. If Brandon ever decides to dig into one of those so many threads he left there, I will not cry... but I will never think that this book had no ending. It did stop where it promised and announced to stop, once Elantris was fully restored, and that was also perfect.

40
Brandon Sanderson / Re: MB1 Prologue Epigraph Thingy
« on: May 16, 2008, 02:50:02 PM »
It is part of the logbook. Also, after compiling it, I can confirm that it is not in order. It came to me also, from what I did read, that actually, Alendi might have gone to the Well of Ascension and acted. He stipulates that he HAS SEEN the future that will come to pass if he does take the power for himself. Now, Vin sees a future when the Well's liquid gets into her and she is faced with questions. However, it seems that Alendi had sometime to take his decisison. Most likely, Rashek killed him after. Would you think that Alendi's blood power, if it happened that way, could have been used as sacrifice for Rashek's hemalurgical powers ? I'll bring some quotes once I am home with my notes...

41
Brandon Sanderson / The Very General Spike Theme
« on: May 15, 2008, 02:30:02 PM »
Since the Koloss thread is turning into a spike discussion, I thought, for order sake, that it would be better to place our notes and comments on different spikes here. It could be mainly the Inquisitors' spikes but, if any other creature (beside the Koloss since they have their own thread) is discovered with one or more (including poor Zane - R.I.P.).

I hesitate into just following this topic in the Hemalurgy thread since there is a possibility that Hemalurgy could belong only to the Lord Ruler and that he only created the Inquisitors with it, themselves not using hemalurgy. We know that they have the power of a Mistborn, but that is not also sufficient to say that they are so either.

So we found three quotes, 1 from MB1 and 2 from MB2 that confirms that the eye spikes are Iron, one in MB1 that tells us that the spike between the shoulder blade was steel. This is a start.

42
Brandon Sanderson / Re: The Koloss
« on: May 15, 2008, 02:19:38 PM »
Quote from: Vintage on May 12, 2008, 10:54:47 PM
No it wasn't. The only quote that talks about it is in the opening post of this thread. It really doesn't say much.

Well, I can't add more to this, Avalon. lol

As for the use of steel... could it be because it would be the only metal not modifiable by Ruin ? I notice that Kwaan's plate was in steel, and also the map in the Lord Ruler's private basement. It also holds the life of the Inquisitors together so much that they are called the "Steel Ministry". Well, I'll keep on reading for clues as long as we don't find out.

43
Brandon Sanderson / Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« on: May 15, 2008, 02:13:53 PM »
What we really need to do is an intelligent reread and check specific points, take notes and references. Once that is done, we can revise everybody's theory and come out with a much better collective one. I am working on this already. I confirm, the Iron eyes enables Inquisitors to see the metal line, however thin, from all around. That's in MB1... But we really do need clear quotes from the book and also the annotations since things "change" (i.e. the steel earring in MB1 became the bronze earring in MB2) and that we have to figure out the proper figures. Brandon will have to revise his books later on, though, just like Tolkien had to revise the Lord of the Ring a couple of years after it came out. He is walking in the steps of his great predecessor.  :D

44
Brandon Sanderson / Re: Vin as HOA?
« on: May 15, 2008, 02:07:03 PM »
I compiled all of Alendi's logbook that we could find in MB1. Hum... I still don't have my precious copy back, so I bought a paper cover for the mean time lol  I am now ready to reread (a 3rd time lol) MB2 to compare what Vin is getting out of there... but like Chaos said, if Kwaan's steel plate doesn't confirm it, I would not put too much trust into it. Maybe the logbook served only for one purpose. To tell us that a certain Alendi existed once...

45
Brandon Sanderson / Re: The Comprehensive Hemalurgy Thread
« on: May 15, 2008, 04:46:18 AM »
After finding a couple of quotes regarding the Iron eyes of Inquisitors, I just rediscovered that the spike between the shoulder is steel... just like Steel Ministry... the Steel Inquisitors kept their lives as long as they had their Steel Spike. If I rediscover some more, I'll add. But could this help ?

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