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Messages - LongTimeUnderdog

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1
Reading Excuses / Re: May 23 - Will777r - Soul Yearning - Chapter 1
« on: May 27, 2011, 01:12:58 AM »
A general rule of thumb.  Freelance "Editors," usually aren't worth the spit you should be throwing at them.  A book doesn't need a hook via action.  It needs a hook via emotion if you're using a hook at all.  You cna probably get a lot more milage out of Albione if he's doing priestly things like comforting and praying with soldiers who are coming to him in fear of the ensuing battle, then by moving right into the action.  And also action doesn't necessarily mean violence, it just means "make stuff happen."  With the above scenario, and I'm not trying to tell you how to write your book, the actions of Albione being a priest and having to deal with priestly things like:  I'm supposed to be supportive and I know telling them God is going to help us win today will make them fight better, and I know I'm supposed to tell these guys there's a place in heaven for them, but I know Joe over there beats his wife and Sam there cheats on his.  Both of them are running a racket on the other soldiers too.

That kind of thing creates tension because it puts the priest in an immediate conflict with his position.  Lie, essentially, to keep up moral and maybe have more people live, or tell the truth  and drop some of the moral and risk people dying.  to a normal person this might not seem too bad of a choice, but to a priest . . . I think you see where I'm going with that.  My point isn't to tell you what to write, but to give you something to give you ideas.  This kind of thing gives us a great look at the religion since our hero is a priest, and how it fits into the lives of the soldiers.  It tells us a lot about Albione and how he treats his faith and how he uses it.  Gives us character, conflict, and plot because of the coming fighting.  On top of that, it's more interesting and when the fighting starts we get to see how he reacts to the fighting, how he fights, and how his previous decisions play out.

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Reading Excuses / Re: May 23 - Will777r - Soul Yearning - Chapter 1
« on: May 26, 2011, 02:12:52 PM »
As far as the feel of the story, I would go with Warhammer over anything else.  Yes, Night elves sound like Warcraft, but beyond that they're called elves in general which, is just bad.  That's been beat enough so I don't need to hit it further.

I mention this sounds like Warhammer because your description of Albione is pretty much the war priest cast of the empire, all the way down to his weapon (more on my issues with that later).  Big, armored guys, fighting against elves, it just as that Warhammer vibe to it, and if I picked that up, other people will as well because I don't even play Warhammer.  If you don't see the connection, I'll point it out further.

http://www.warhammeronline.com/armiesofWAR/empire/warriorpriest.php.

the Link there is to the War priest page of the Warhammer online game, based on the figurine game.  IF  you look at the art, you'll see exactly what you described to me.  There is no mention of a shield and Albione.  I can, therefore, assume without much complication, that the weapon is used with two hands.  That kind of weapon is actually called a "Maul."  A real warhammer was used with one hand, usually accompanied by a shield or sword or something.

I'm taking the time to point all this out because I want to point something else out:  Because there is so little setting and description, I as the reader have to make up things to fill in the blanks.  Because I know there's an armored dude with a hammer, I think Warhammer or D&D.  You've got "elves" with scimitars so I automatically think Drow or Warhammer Dark elves.  We only know we're in a castle that's being sieged so I'm already thinking bland generic English setting.  Yawn.  Seen it all, read it all, and since you're not Joe Abercrombie, none of this is going to interest me because he did it first, and better (well his final drafts anyway, can't say for his firsts).

And about these Night Elves . . .  Scimitars, really?

I'm guessing you really meant curved swords and so went with scimitar because you knew they were curved swords.  Truth is there are a lot of curved type swords.  And then this guy is flipping off a ladder (um . . .. really?) but most of his grace ends there.  These night elves strike me as feral mostly and curved swords are actually harder to use then straight swords and the strength/force to injury model used by curved blades is different and more complicated then straight edged weapons.  If you're fighting an armored target you're better off with a club then a sword most of the time (no joke).

Why do I think the Elves are feral?  Because they lack sophistication in their assault.  All they used were siege ladders (not bad by itself) but there wasn't much archer support for them.  There is no mention of their armor or what they're wearing.  WE have so little setting, it's actually annoying. Physically and mentally annoying.  It hurts, actually hurts, because we are given so little.

On to the actual fighting.

Here in the story you start to shine more.  Here your writing feels alot like Joe Abercrombie and that's not a bad thing.  I love Abercrombie's work.  Not for it's originality (of which there is little, to be honest) but for what he does with what he has.  His descriptions of fighting, they way he writes it, you both are similar in that regard and fighting is what Joe does best.  Unlike Joe, however, you don't seem to actually know what it is you're writing about.

A major turn off for me was how the fighting was done in the story.  The way the weapons were used, the way the siege went, the way people moved around the field . . . it all felt generic, like you'd watched some bad movies and went from there.  The armor felt more like a costume then actual armor.  Armor is just as much a weapon and shield as a weapon and shield.  If you want a great example of this, the times where Gorst is fighting in "The Heroes" (by Joe Abercrombie) is a perfect example.  Gorst is so good at fighting, killing people and deflecting blows and recovering from the unforeseen is so natural and easy for him, while Red Beck is so clumsy and cowardly.  Every fighter has their own character on the battlefield and Joe brings even the most minor of characters to life through the fighting.

Action is not just a big hook.  It is not "the fun part."  Particularly in fantasy where we have swordsmen often, action scenes should be a way of drawing character out.  At this you did okay.  While I could recognize bad action movie syndrome, I still found myself enjoying it because there was a level of intensity to it.  Seeing Albione beat people in the face or stomach was easy in your minimalist writing.  While I would have loved more setting, the action was good enough to keep me going.

About the healing.  Personally, I hate healing magic.  That makes me think D&D and the like right away.  It also removes some of the tension.  If the heroes can simply heal themselves, there is less impact when they take an injury.  I also hate wizards and the like in stories because, in part, their power is so undefined.  And that's another problem with this piece.  Albione's magic is so undefined once he starts healing, I start wondering what else he can do and why he isn't doing it.

3
Thanks for your response and feelings.  Gives me something to work on and confidence I'm not completely a lost cause.  As to the Calorite Comment, this is not the first time I've mentioned them.  But as is often what happens in the story, the previous mention was done in such passing, it would be easy to forget.  Probably need to stop doing that.

4
Oh yeah, and I still havn't come up with something satisfactory to replace huuk with.  Still working on it.

5
First off, I'm really surprised and amazingly appreciative that you read all the stuff I posted.  That's like . . . wow.  Anyway, I'll respond as best I can here, for all of them.  Making it either really long or really short and contained, we'll see.

I am aware Talvin's behaviors are odd and inconsistent.  I'm doing in purposefully.  That said, I get the concern posed by the audience.  With out some prior hint, it does come off as weird or inconsistent.  Of course to me it doesn't seem inconsistent because I know more about him then the rest of you, so I appreciate you pointing it out to me since I never would have seen it otherwise.

The scenes where Jin and the voice are talking (who has actually been named but I'll let you figure that out on your own) are long, can't argue.  But as for being pointless or not adding anything . . . I'm surprised to hear that.

Asmodemon, one of the things that makes your reading of particular interest to me is that you're reading the submissions back to back, as one would the actual book.  From that, you have a perspective about the story I am really enjoying.  So thank you for that.

As for the treatment of the hole, I suppose I should be drawing more attention to Zarfar and Talvin's behavior toward it.  The behavior is not out of character, or odd.  but as I am the only one that knows that . . . I suppose capitalizing on that should be important to making the scenes better.  Perhaps making a more direct mention of it instead of the subtleness I have been using.  The stuff that's not working very well.

An interesting note about Jin's age.  10 years old in our modern society != 10 years old 3000+ years ago.  Viking children, intersetingly enough, were consider full adults at 10 years old.  At 5 years old they were shipped off to apprenticeships at 5 years old, to learn a trade and if they were men and willing women, learning to fight.  I can't remember off the top of my head which chapter I mention it in, but Jin's service to Talvin is also a result of his apprenticeship, not just because he's the man's "son."  There will be more on that later.  So yes, Jin acts older because, culturally, he IS older.

This brings up a problem I've been having I would love suggestions with (from anyone).  In a society like this one, that kind of younger adult expectation is normal.  I did mention in one chapter that 13 is considered a full adult in some cases.   this still hasn't appeared to be enough.  How do I demonstrate younger = older in this culture without comparing it to our societies, as they don't have our society to compare it to?

6
In which Jin meets a "nurse" and does the impossible.

7
Right off in the beginning you suffer from "plot exposition."  Now granted the conversation the two women are having is actually nice.  Right up until:

Quote
I can't believe that our sisters in those countries would let their men plan another

war against us. Not after the crushing defeats we inflicted upon them.”

“This was a long time ago, my lady,” commented Enora. “Some of your political

allies say that we are growing too complacent, and that the Erlitans are planning once more to

invade us and overthrow our Government.”

Not only are the lines just bad, they're about as "maid and butler" as you can get, without actually having a maid and butler.

Why are those lines bad?  Because they hand hold the audience too much.  You can cut part of the line, the "in other countries," and replace it with "there" or replace it with nothing at all, and it would actually sound better.  You then follow it with, "Not after the crushing defeat we inflicted upon them."  You could remove the line entirely or simplify it into "Not after the last embarrassing defeat," or just "Not after the last defeat."  The audience should be after to figure out just how bad things were for the other side with something like that, instead of being told it was a "crushing defeat."  I mean seriously, who actually talks like that?

Even worse however, is the second part of that conversational snip.  " . . . planning to once more invade us and overthrow our government."  As a reader, I can be pretty sure they're not making war because the other side took all the oreos (though it would be a pretty good reason  to go war if they did).  The lines are so "scene setting" and "background setting," that they all just feel mechanical.  It's exposition with quote marks around it.

Also words and phrases like "keep tabs," and "wimps," seem horribly out of place.  Plus they lack creativity.

The rest of the text suffers a bit from the above but it actually gets better when the pair start talking about the laws and usurping the misogynist men and begin nice to them and all that.  THAT is well done and quite interesting.

As the piece goes on the characters really come out.  And that's good.  The subtle indications of Listeria's manipulative methods are profound and humorous (to me at least).  I've heard complaints that matriarchal societies being over sexualized but I find that argument shallow and without contemplation.  It lacks a perspective on behaviors.  I think, though admittedly I'm about as Male as one can get, that you handled her treatment of men perfectly.  It showed much of her character and I, at least, found her interesting in that sort of Darth Vadar kind of way (only more feminine).  Now if you can fix your opening, you'll have something great here.


8
Reading Excuses / Re: Email List + Submission Dates
« on: May 11, 2011, 06:43:15 PM »
Yay, I got the next chapter done!  I have something for Monday now.

9
Sorry I'm late as well.  Youdid me a turn by reading mine, I should have done the same long ago.

My first big complaint, which likely taints everything else, is that our hero, Sirat doesn't care.  Because he doesn't care, I don't care.  Much of the tension or whatever a siege should have with it is lost because of it.  Put another way, I have no emotional investment and everything is really really boring.

Quote
Fool woman, Sirat thought. You should have fled to the other side of the city with

everyone else. Nearly all of the people living on this side of the city had fled to the other

end before the siege had begun.

This is a really odd two sentences.  First off, Sirat mentions that everyone fled to the other side of the city, then he narrates that everyone has fled to the other side of the city.  I'd cut the narration and just leave the thought.  that's all you need there.

And Akoebel is totally right.  You expound way to much.  The following paragraph you have Sirat narrating how much he feels the need to help children, then he goes out and does it.  You can cut all the narration and just demonstrate an eagerness to help the child.  And that can be done as easily as:

There was a second scream, more of a cry then a scream, if he was being honest.  A sort of high pitched, blubbering hiss.  "Shatter it all," he cursed under his breath.  "You just had to have children, didn't you?"

I would not suggest using those words exactly, as I'm sure you could write something for more in character and just better written in general.  It could probably be taken a step or two further, but I'm sure you'll figure out something better.

At the end I'm not really seeing his motivation for fighting and running.  I get he doesn't like the soldiers, nor care for service, but they have only hinted at something and to me it doesn't really sound like conscription.  Sounds more like they got an escape plan.

Everything about Sirat annoys me.  He's so self centered it makes me want to punch him.  He's so annoying it makes me want to punch him.  The officer and the soldiers were more interesting a group to me and while Sirat is trying to flee them, I'm cheering they catch him and break his arms. 


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Reading Excuses / Re: April 25 – Hubay – Lord Domestic Ch 9
« on: May 09, 2011, 05:05:54 PM »
I would say don't change it, but if you give a better explaination of how it happens (and by better I mean something, not a whole science).  Like "Something about pushing one soul into the other soul that makes it impossible to go back into the body.  it was all very hushed and vague as far as everyone else was concerned."

Just a suggestion.

11
Thanks all for reading.  To answer Skyhunter's question, Traxix will actually be making appearances later in the story.  He has a few more interludes to go through.

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Reading Excuses / Re: May 2 - kwkak37 - Paper Boy Part 1
« on: May 02, 2011, 03:46:55 PM »
No offense taken hubay, and if I am willing to be honest, you're right.  I am quite mean to first timers.  It's honestly not as bad as I made it out to be.  Opening with the characters talking is a good thing.  The format of the story telling was good.  It strikes me as a particularly character based story and that's a good thing.

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I apologize for not having any spiffy art for the piece, as indicated.  I haven't had time to do any of it lately.

The give you time and place of the piece, it takes place before Jin'Cathul starts, but right after Karemoth ends.  The interlude between their two stories.  For those of you new to the story, I'm sorry.  I was writing Chapter 17 of the story when i realized information from this interlude would be helpful.  So I am including it before going on.  Chapter 17 is underway (well the third draft of it all anyway).  It's short, close to 1500 words.  I hope there's enough here to like.

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Reading Excuses / Re: May 2 - kwkak37 - Paper Boy Part 1
« on: May 02, 2011, 02:37:32 PM »
I am going to preface this by saying I am likely bias against this genre of comic.  As much as I love comics in general, there is little in the "YA" category I enjoy.  That doesn't mean there isn't stuff I DO enjoy, there just isn't much.  Now on to the critique.

I am already disinterested in the characters because of how ridiculously cliche they are.  the nerdy kid makes me think "Martin Sue," since with the name Kevin I'll assume you're male.  The touch chick makes me think . . . well . .. about every other nerdy boy, touch chick combo I've seen.  Their introductions, him reciting radical facts and mathmatic equations was almost the most boring thing i've ever read.  Not because the character interactions weren't interesting (there was some decent dialogue there) but because that kind of reaction has been done a hundred thousand times.

Emily's description of fighting people seems to have served 2 purposes, and one of which is likely unintentional.  The first is, it did indeed make her seem "tough" so good job. The second is that she is totally incompetant as a fighter.  If this was intended, you did it brilliantly and should be praised for your amazing skills (no sarcasm, honest truth).  If this was not intended, then this is simply a matter of research.  I, personally, know an absurd amount of martial arts trivia and from your description of the manuever you didn't know the name of, I didn't know it either.  This means, unless you can demonstrate it to the artist yourself, he or she is probably not going to have an idea either.

Secondly, anyone who actually tries to kick a knife out of a hand as a primary attempt at a disarm is going to get their foot cut open unless he or she is wearing some pretty heavy boots.  And that only works if the knife fighter isn't holding it in a reverse grip (thus meaning he's actually competent at it and not just an idiot with a blade).  And that's assuming the guy she's kicking isn't fast enough or trained or experienced to actually catch the foot and stab her in the shin.  So like I said, this is either brilliant or flawed, depending on your intentions.

Alright, on to comic formating.  Do you have an artist already?  If you do, great.  If your artist doesn't flake on you, even better!  I'm going to assume you've already thought through publication and are formating everything toward that goal, so that is the last I will say on the subject.

My overall feelings with the piece is that there is nothing here to hook me or even make me want to pick up the next volume.  The characters aren't all that interesting, the situation is bland with the exception at the end with the funky red-eyed animal but that really wasn't enough.  The writing isn't bad, but aside from the voice in his head with a name, everything was cliched and predictable.  to be fair though, if you had not added the hints of supernatural whatever at the end there, I would have been dissappointed.  But I think that's personal for just me. 

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Reading Excuses / Re: Email List + Submission Dates
« on: May 02, 2011, 01:35:56 AM »
I got something really really really short for this week.

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