Timewaster's Guide Archive
Local Authors => Brandon Sanderson => Topic started by: old aggie on January 14, 2011, 04:20:42 PM
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My theory: The Parshendi are not actually enemies, but will become allies instead. They are the "help" that the Almighty sent (mentioned in one of Dalinar's visions).
- - The Almighty has caused them to evolve so that they have "armor" that prevents the hive-mind control that normal Parshmen fall victim to.
- - The dark sphere (that Gavilar gave Szeth) does summon thunderclasts. The Parshendi gave it to Gavilar to keep it from their non-armored cousins during the coming Desolation.
- - But then why kill Gavilar? Maybe, as he interacted with him in the visions, the Almighty discovered that Gavilar was the "wrong" brother - from the descriptions of their personalities, he seems more over-aggressive whereas Dalinar seems more "Honor"-able, so to speak. So the Almighty chose the younger brother, and led (by visions?) the Parshendi to remove the elder one. This reminds me a little of the Jacob/Esau story in Jewish history.
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I like this theory, but then, why would they be fighting? Are they unfamiliar to ordinary human responses? Because if you kill someones brother, do you really expect them to help you?
'
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I'm a fan of the theory as well, but wasn't the almighty already gone from Roshar at the start of the story?
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And wasn't Gavilar originally the honorable one? He was the one studying the Way of Kings while Dalinar was still obsessed with killing. It was only Gavilar's death that made him start following the Codes and such. So your theory's plausible, but it would be a bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy...
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Then again, we don't know for sure The Almighty is dead until Chapter 2, "Honor is Dead."
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I kinda feel that the parshendi are parshmen infused with the spirits of men. Near the end when dalinar fights the parshendi shard bearer. He says "It is you" I kinda have been thinking that the parshendi shard bearer was in fact Gavilar. And they had him killed to be their leader, due to the respect they had for him. all just thoughts i had kickiung around who knows /shrug.
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I kinda feel that the parshendi are parshmen infused with the spirits of men.
You know, that could very well be right... sort of like a Warbreaker type thing where the Parshmen are Lifeless and the Parshendi have more Breaths added, or more complex Commands, or whatever the Stormlight equivalent thereof happens to be.
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Haha I just got warbreaker today. Its the only Brandon Sanderson book I have not read....and its the free one. Anyway I got the idea from the fight between Dalinar and the Parshendi Shard bearer. He seems to know Dalinar in some way. That made me think of the kings murder with no real explanation of why they had him killed.
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I don't know, this is a theory with virtually no backup behind it. Brandon likes to foreshadow things, so that when you actually learn the reason for something, you can go back and say "Woah, all those things were leading up to this, it was so obvious!"... except it wasn't, because you were missing the central piece to the puzzle.
We don't know anything about the Parshmen and the Parshendi. There has been no interaction between Alethkar and the Parshendi before Gavilar found them, and when he did, they were just as developed as they are in the book. I think that would rule out your theory, unless you go into some secret kidnapping action, or hidden interaction with other kingdoms... but that would be you trying to save face, I think.
If there is any hint about what and who the Parsh-people are, it would be in Jasnah's chapters and the epigraphs of Part Three - her research and theory that the Parsh are the Voidbringers. I have my own thoughts on her supposition, but I'll have to post them in a different topic, as they are kind of an off-topic here.
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I kinda feel that the parshendi are parshmen infused with the spirits of men. Near the end when dalinar fights the parshendi shard bearer. He says "It is you" I kinda have been thinking that the parshendi shard bearer was in fact Gavilar. And they had him killed to be their leader, due to the respect they had for him. all just thoughts i had kickiung around who knows /shrug.
I like this theory. It intrigues me.
So maybe the Parshendi have achieved some higher form of consciousness, and they kill humans so they can join and share in this harmony? Or maybe the Parshendi are actually just beings that have been corrupted by the 'Satan' of Roshar (odium?)? I kinda doubt this, considering how harmonius the Parshendi seem (they sing at all times - even while dying - and don't attack severely wounded enemy soldiers).
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Neat theory, but there is a problem.
- - The Almighty has caused them to evolve so that they have "armor" that prevents the hive-mind control that normal Parshmen fall victim to.
We have a nice little passage about half way through the Prologue (Page 28 of the first printing hardback, about halfway down the page).
According to legend, the Shardblades were first carried by the Knights Radiant uncounted ages ago. Gifts of their god, granted to allow them to fight horrors of rock and flame, dozens of feet tall, foes whose eyes burned with hatred. The Voidbringers. When your foe had skin as hard as stone itself, steel was useless. Something supernal was required.
I underlined the part that argues against your theory.
At least I can only assume that when you say "Evolve so they have 'armor'" you are referring to the biological armor the Parshendi have, but ancent legend tells us that the Voidbringers (beings of rock and flame, black and red, the Parshendi) have skin as hard as rock. IE even during the first Desolation the Parshendi (Voidbringers) had that armor.
It is a nice theory though. But the Armor isn't something new, and isn't from the Almighty.
I want to bring up the Scene toward the end when Kaladin is trying to save Dalinvar and the Parshendi Shardbearer is fighting Dalinvar. The other Parshendi aren't interfering in the fight, but I don't think it is out of a sense of Honor as Kaladin seems to believe (and would STRONGLY support your theory) I think it is a requirement from Odium. The Almighty says you may be able to get him to pick a champion, he is bound by some rules. The shardbearer was odium's champion (at that point) and the other Parshendi COULDN'T interfere because Odium wouldn't let them because HE was bound by a rule.
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I find Melriken's champion theory compelling, but there is something that bothers me in it. When the Almighty spoke in Dalinar's vision, he implied that Odium could be persuaded to choose a champion sometime in the future. Of course, you could argue that the visions were more of diary than a true visitation by a god's spirit, but if I recall correctly, Dalinar spoke with the Almighty directly at the end. So Honor must be in the correct time frame. Which could imply that Odium does not have a champion yet.
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Parshendi are not dozens of feet tall, and the armor is not hard as rock either, though. Remember that we still have no solid evidence that Jasnah is actually right. What is described in the quote from the Prelude above sounds like a thunderclast.
This discussion lead me to a new idea about the voidbringers: The other beings described to have rock-like skin, or shells, are the chulls! Chasmfiends, too, but chulls are also described as having rock-like shells, plus red claws and legs. This may be a little far out, but most of the prophecies could also fit chulls... Music when they kill does finger the Parshendi though.
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I should think it's just the Chasmfiends themselves. The descriptions fit: dozens of feet tall, triangular heads, etc.
What better foe than one that has a massive gem infused with stormlight inside of it?
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I find Melriken's champion theory compelling, but there is something that bothers me in it. When the Almighty spoke in Dalinar's vision, he implied that Odium could be persuaded to choose a champion sometime in the future. Of course, you could argue that the visions were more of diary than a true visitation by a god's spirit, but if I recall correctly, Dalinar spoke with the Almighty directly at the end. So Honor must be in the correct time frame. Which could imply that Odium does not have a champion yet.
The Almighty is dead, he never talked to Dalinar, just left a note for him.
Also I don't think the champion was truly chosen, just that for that particular fight that particular Parshendi was acting as a champion (a temporary champion?). The Almighty is speaking of getting Odium to pick a Champion for the war, I think this fight was a precursor to that.
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Parshendi are not dozens of feet tall, and the armor is not hard as rock either, though. Remember that we still have no solid evidence that Jasnah is actually right. What is described in the quote from the Prelude above sounds like a thunderclast.
This discussion lead me to a new idea about the voidbringers: The other beings described to have rock-like skin, or shells, are the chulls! Chasmfiends, too, but chulls are also described as having rock-like shells, plus red claws and legs. This may be a little far out, but most of the prophecies could also fit chulls... Music when they kill does finger the Parshendi though.
The parshendi shardbearer that fought Dalinar was "a seven-foot-tall giant" (page 930 of the orignal hardback (chap 68)). Like the Red and Black skin became Fire and Ash, the impressive stature became a Dozen Feet, then Dozens of feet, and the hard Carapace became rock.
Thunderclast are beasts of rock, they have no skin and would not be described as having skin as hard as rock, but rather beign described as having skin OF rock (or more likely as having a body made of rock). Also the "Skin as hard as rock" quote includes nothing about triangular heads.
Chasmfiends are not "Beasts of rock and flame" Even their blood isn't red, they are a much worse match for the Voidbringers then the Parshendi are, and they are not intelligent. No animal foe, regardless of how strong, fast, or powerful, is as dangerous as an intelligent Foe.
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I find Melriken's champion theory compelling, but there is something that bothers me in it. When the Almighty spoke in Dalinar's vision, he implied that Odium could be persuaded to choose a champion sometime in the future. Of course, you could argue that the visions were more of diary than a true visitation by a god's spirit, but if I recall correctly, Dalinar spoke with the Almighty directly at the end. So Honor must be in the correct time frame. Which could imply that Odium does not have a champion yet.
Dalinar never speaks directly with the Almighty; he's just answering pre-recorded responses, and explicitly states that the Almighty can't actually hear him.
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Parshendi are not dozens of feet tall, and the armor is not hard as rock either, though. Remember that we still have no solid evidence that Jasnah is actually right. What is described in the quote from the Prelude above sounds like a thunderclast.
This discussion lead me to a new idea about the voidbringers: The other beings described to have rock-like skin, or shells, are the chulls! Chasmfiends, too, but chulls are also described as having rock-like shells, plus red claws and legs. This may be a little far out, but most of the prophecies could also fit chulls... Music when they kill does finger the Parshendi though.
The parshendi shardbearer that fought Dalinar was "a seven-foot-tall giant" (page 930 of the orignal hardback (chap 68)). Like the Red and Black skin became Fire and Ash, the impressive stature became a Dozen Feet, then Dozens of feet, and the hard Carapace became rock.
Thunderclast are beasts of rock, they have no skin and would not be described as having skin as hard as rock, but rather beign described as having skin OF rock (or more likely as having a body made of rock). Also the "Skin as hard as rock" quote includes nothing about triangular heads.
Chasmfiends are not "Beasts of rock and flame" Even their blood isn't red, they are a much worse match for the Voidbringers then the Parshendi are, and they are not intelligent. No animal foe, regardless of how strong, fast, or powerful, is as dangerous as an intelligent Foe.
Quoted for agreement. Jasnah's research was very careful, and with careful accounting for exaggeration and mythologizing, the sources we have in the book make a very good case for the Parshendi being Voidbringers. Because we don't even know what being a Voidbringer means, I am withholding judgment as to who they are associated with.
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Jasnah's research was very careful, and with careful accounting for exaggeration and mythologizing, the sources we have in the book make a very good case for the Parshendi being Voidbringers. Because we don't even know what being a Voidbringer means, I am withholding judgment as to who they are associated with.
Sorry to be nitpicking here, but she makes a case for the Parshmen being the Voidbringers. She herself believes the Parshendi may be a clue to what's going on, and that they are a special case. Quite possibly the Parshendi may be an ally against the rising normal Parshmen - if for example they are resistant to whatever turns Parshmen into killing machines.
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Sorry to be nitpicking here, but she makes a case for the Parshmen being the Voidbringers. She herself believes the Parshendi may be a clue to what's going on, and that they are a special case. Quite possibly the Parshendi may be an ally against the rising normal Parshmen - if for example they are resistant to whatever turns Parshmen into killing machines.
And your theory on why they killed Gavilar is?
The Parshendi killed the man most likely to unite Alethki and bring peace to the world so it can better fight the coming Desolation (If I had to guess I would say that Gavilar got the same visions that Dalinar is getting now), have armored Carapace (like the Rock hard skin of the Voidbringers of legend), and are doing a solid job of killing as many Alethki soldiers as they can (if you push too hard the Alethki would pull back to defensive positions and you would kill fewer of them).
Jasnah is trying to figure out how to bring the normal Parshmen to bear against the Parshendi before Odium has a chance to turn the normal Parshmen INTO Parshendi and kill everyone.
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Because I wanted to gather them all in one place anyhow, and they are relevant to this discussion... I am going to post all the Epigraphs of Part 3 (Jasnah's Journal)
29 - "The ones of ash and fire, who killed like a swarm, relentless before the Heralds." --Noted in Masly, page 337. Corroborated by Coldwin and Hasavah.
30 - "They were suddenly dangerous. Like a calm day that became a tempest." --This fragment is the origin of a Thaylen proverb that was eventually reworked into a more common derivation. I believe it may reference the Voidbringers. See Ixsix's Emperor, fourth chapter.
31 - Six Years Ago
32 - "They lived high atop a place no man could reach, but all could visit. The tower city itself, crafted by the hands of no man." --Though The Song of the Last Summer is a fanciful tale of romance from the third century after the Recreance, it is likely a valid reference in this case. See page 27 of Varala's translation, and note the undertext.
33 - "They changed, even as we fought them. Like shadows they were, that can transform as the flame dances. Never underestimate them because of what you first see." - Purports to be a scrap collected from Talatin, a Radiant of the Order of Stonewards. The source --Guvlow's Incarnate-- is generally held as reliable, though this is from a copied fragment of "The Poem of the Seventh Morning." which has been lost.
34 - "I walked from Abamabar to Urithiru" --This quote from the Eighth Parable of The Way of Kings seems to contradict Varala and Sinbian, who both claim the city was inaccessible by foot. Perhaps there was a way constructed, or perhaps Nohadon was being metaphorical.
35 - "Though many wished Urithiru to be built in Alethela, it was obvious that it could not be. And so it was that we asked for it to be placed westward, in the place nearest to Honor." --Perhaps the oldest surviving original source mentioning the city, re-quoted in The Vavibrar, line 1804. What I wouldn't give for a way to translate the Dawnchant.
36 - "Taking the Dawnshard, known to bind any creature voidish or mortal, he crawled up the steps crafted for Heralds, ten strides tall apiece, toward the grand temple above." --From The Poem of Ista. I have found no modern explanation of what these "Dawnshards" are. They seem ignored by scholars, though talk of them was obviously prevalent among those recording the early mythologies.
37 - Five and a Half years Ago
38 - "Born from the darkness, they bear its taint still, marked upon their bodies much as the fire marks their souls." --I consider Gashash-son-Navammis a trustworthy source, though I'm not certain about this translation. Find the original quote in the fourteenth book of Seld and retranslate it myself, perhaps?
39 - "Within a heartbeat, Alezaro was there, crossing a distance that would have taken more then four months to travel by foot." --Another folktale, this one recorded in Among the Darkeyed, by Calinam. Page 102. Stories of instantaneous travel and the Oathgates pervade these tales.
40 - "Death upon the lips. Sound upon the air. Char upon the skin." --From "The Last Desolation" by Ambrian, line 335.
41 - Five and a Half Years ago
42 - "Like a highstorm, regular in their coming, yet always unexpected." --The word Desolation is used twice in reference to their appearances. See pages 57, 59, and 64 of Tales by Hearthlight.
43 - "They lived out in the wilds, always awaiting the Desolation--or sometimes, a foolish child who took no heed of the night's darkness." --A child's tale, yes, but this quote from Shadows Remembered seems to hint at the truth I seek. See page 82, the fourth tale.
44 - Five Years Ago
45 - "Yelig-nar, called Blightwind, was one that could speak like a man, though often his voice was accompanied by the wails of those he consumed." --The Unmade were obviously fabrications of folklore. Curiously, most were not considered individuals, but instead personifications of kinds of destruction. This quote is from Traxil, line 33, considered a primary source, though I doubt its authenticity.
46 - "Though I was due for dinner in Veden City that night, I insisted upon visiting Kholinar to speak with Tivbet. The tariffs through Urithiru were growing quite unreasonable. By then, the so-called Radiants had already begun to show their true nature." --Following the firing of the original Palanaeum, only one page of Terxim's autobiography remained, and this is the only line of any use to me.
47 - One Year Ago
48 - "They take away the light, wherever they lurk. Skin that is burned." --Cormshen, page 104.
49 - "Radiant / of birthplace / the announcer comes / to come announce / the birthplace of Radiants." --Though I am not overly fond of the ketek poetic form as a means of conveying information, this one by Allahn is often quoted in reference to Urithiru. I believe some mistook the home of the Radiants for their birthplace.
50 - "Flame and char. Skin so terrible. Eyes like pits of blackness." --A quote from the Iviad probably needs no reference notation, but this comes from line 482, should I need to locate it quickly.
51 - One Year Ago
Of particular note are 30, 33, 42, and 43. Which seem to indicate that the Parshendi are the Voidbringers (33 being a comment on them changing, possibly explaining the "Dozens of feet tall" comment).
Edit: Epigraphs not Epitaphs...
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Reading this makes me think... 'They changed, even as we fought them. Like shadows they were, that can transform as the flame dances.' Assuming this is really referring to the Voidbringers, and assuming the Voidbringers really are the Parshendi, we haven't seen a single indication that they can change forms, especially in a swift manner. Maybe they can grow their chitin-like armor at will, but it doesn't seem like that is a fast process.
Could this be an argument against the claim that the two are the same? Or maybe the Voidbringers aren't as human-like as Jasnah likes to think. Maybe the Parshendi are the Voidbringers, but somehow inhibited, weakened.
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Reading this makes me think... 'They changed, even as we fought them. Like shadows they were, that can transform as the flame dances.' Assuming this is really referring to the Voidbringers, and assuming the Voidbringers really are the Parshendi, we haven't seen a single indication that they can change forms, especially in a swift manner. Maybe they can grow their chitin-like armor at will, but it doesn't seem like that is a fast process.
Could this be an argument against the claim that the two are the same? Or maybe the Voidbringers aren't as human-like as Jasnah likes to think. Maybe the Parshendi are the Voidbringers, but somehow inhibited, weakened.
I think the Parshendi want war across the world. They are afraid of Alethkar uniting and then bringing the rest of the world together as well.
The best way to prevent that is to give the highprinces sport, and keep them out of the country so their people will fight with each other and other nations will be willing to attack Alethkar in minor boarder skrimishes (not afraid of Alethkar's shardbearers because they are all at the warcamps). Posing a REAL threat to Alethkar is the best way to get the exact opposite to happen, Unite the nation and bring others in to help them.
Thus the Parshendi send just enough forces onto the Plateaus to fight, but not overwhelm the Alethkar, and they grow armor that is hard, but not impenetrable to normal troops. They let Alethkar think it is winning to that it will stay fractured as 10 mini-kingdoms until they are ready to strike everywhere at once and truly begin the Desolation.
Also Kaladin has seen the insides of a Parshendi, and they are NOT human, not even close. And he has the medical training to know.
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Reading this makes me think... 'They changed, even as we fought them. Like shadows they were, that can transform as the flame dances.' Assuming this is really referring to the Voidbringers, and assuming the Voidbringers really are the Parshendi, we haven't seen a single indication that they can change forms, especially in a swift manner. Maybe they can grow their chitin-like armor at will, but it doesn't seem like that is a fast process.
Could this be an argument against the claim that the two are the same? Or maybe the Voidbringers aren't as human-like as Jasnah likes to think. Maybe the Parshendi are the Voidbringers, but somehow inhibited, weakened.
Or the quotes have been distorted by the passage of time, and we can't take them absolutely literally. I think if I were a scholar, what I would take out here are the terms "transform" (probably from Parshmen to Parshendi) and "flame" (e.g. the skin.) and ignore the rest as hyperbole.
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Also Kaladin has seen the insides of a Parshendi, and they are NOT human, not even close. And he has the medical training to know.
When was this? I remember that he saw under the carapace armor, but I didn't think he actually got to the innards.
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I don't think he got to the innards either, except he had to saw bits of skull off cause the carapace was attached to the skull itself, so he would have seen bits of the membranes that cover the brain,but still you can tell something about physiology just by getting a close look at the outsides, which he did, also they have orange blood, which suggests a decidedly non-human biochemistry.
Of course, the Lord Ruler was able to turn humans into mistwraiths, which are seemingly even less human, so if the power of a Shard got involved...........
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Kaladin quickly determined that Parshendi physiology was very different from human physiology.
Though re-reading it he is mostly talking about all the "small blue ligaments" that hold the breastplate to the skin underneath. Though there is also talk of there not being much blood (because it pooled in the corpse's back or leaked away already), so I think it fair to assume he didn't manage to cut away the breastplate without cutting through the skin a fair bit and seeing at least some of what was underneath.
But yes, the comment isn't as strong as I remembered it being.
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I very much like unreal's theory re: Parshendi being infused with the spirits of men.
And I like Melriken's theory re: champions, especially in that battle at the Tower. Whether or not that's exactly what the prophecy referred to, it could be related.
I assumed that the creatures described as "horrors of rock ... dozens of feet tall" were the thunderclasts, which we see at the very beginning of the book ("a dying thunderclast"). I picture the Parshendi body-armor more like an insect's shell - flexible, chitinous - not like rock at all.
Also, I did not assume that all Jasnah's quotes referred to the Voidbringers - I think some of them refer to other enemies, like that "Midnight [something]" in one of Dalinar's visions. (Sorry for the imprecise quote - a friend has my copy of tWoK now.)
I realize this theory is kinda out there, but when I read about the Parshendi -vs- the Parshmen, it just *feels* like something Brandon would do.
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Since this is a topic for the unhuman creatures known as Parshendi, does anybody else think that there is something connecting the Parshendi and the Aimia?
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Since this is a topic for the unhuman creatures known as Parshendi, does anybody else think that there is something connecting the Parshendi and the Aimia?
I got the impression that on first glance, the Aimia look a lot more human than the Parshendi, although there are obviously some very important differences under the covers.
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Since this is a topic for the unhuman creatures known as Parshendi, does anybody else think that there is something connecting the Parshendi and the Aimia?
The Parshendi remind me of the Dakhor Monks.
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Since this is a topic for the unhuman creatures known as Parshendi, does anybody else think that there is something connecting the Parshendi and the Aimia?
The Parshendi remind me of the Dakhor Monks.
How so? I mean, besides the enhanced physical abilities, which really aren't that unique to the monks.
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Since this is a topic for the unhuman creatures known as Parshendi, does anybody else think that there is something connecting the Parshendi and the Aimia?
The Parshendi remind me of the Dakhor Monks.
How so? I mean, besides the enhanced physical abilities, which really aren't that unique to the monks.
The monks grew bone armor plates under the skin, while the Parshendi grow carapace above the skin the superficial similarities there are what make the Parshendi remind me of the Monks.
Also we don't know how the Parshendi get their armor.
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As the parshendi either flee from kaladin or try and kill him, I don't think that they would be sent from the Almighty as they clearly knew that Kaladin was infused with stormlight.
Also, is it not possible that the original master of Szeth was working with the Parshendi (or by extension, the Nightwatcher, or Odium) as they took credit for Gavilar's murder and seemed to anticipate the siege of the Shattered Plains.
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As the parshendi either flee from kaladin or try and kill him, I don't think that they would be sent from the Almighty as they clearly knew that Kaladin was infused with stormlight.
Also, is it not possible that the original master of Szeth was working with the Parshendi (or by extension, the Nightwatcher, or Odium) as they took credit for Gavilar's murder and seemed to anticipate the siege of the Shattered Plains.
the original master of Szeth WAS the Parshendi... (well his master during the prologue, we know he was bought by a trader from the Shin, but that is a whole other story)
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And that trader from Shin was Vstim, as seen in Interlude 4: Rysn. I can't remember anything that clearly and unquestionably indicated that Szeth was employed by the Parshendi. Yes, it is possible - and I find it likely too (assuming Brandon doesn't pull something weird off... which he might very well do) - but it's not certain. One of the easiest ways to deceive a reader is to have a knowledgeable character express certainty about some event, only to have themselves proven wrong later on.
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I don't see the Parshendi fleeing from Kaladin so much as respecting or reverencing him - those who saw the supernatural things he could do, at any rate. They chanted something - it sounded like low-level worship to me, when I read it. The Parshendi who were not at the bridge, who did not see how he drew all the arrows onto his shield, were the ones fighting him.
If the Creator did send the Parshendi as unexpected allies ("help that comes unlooked-for, help beyond hope"), I am imagining that he gave some kind of direction to their leaders, possibly much like the visions he was giving Dalinar. That would be how they would recognize him and say, "I have found you."
(I am really wishing that I had my book with me again - but then, part of the rationale was to keep myself from reading it over and over again, and doing nothing else...)
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...I can't remember anything that clearly and unquestionably indicated that Szeth was employed by the Parshendi. ...
First sentence of the Szeth prologue:
Szeth-son-son-Vallano, Truthless of Shinovar, wore white on the day he was to kill a king. The white clothing was a Parshendi tradition, foreign to him. But he did as his masters required and did not ask for an explanation.
and a few paragraphs down:
...As Szeth passed the drummers, they noted him. They would withdraw soon, along with all of the other Parshendi.
They did not seem offended. They did not seem angry. And yet they were going to break their treaty of only a few hours. It made no sense. But Szeth did not ask questions.
While it is possible that he had masters (plural) who were not Parshendi and who instructed him to wear the Parshendi white, the second passage indicates that the Parshendi knew they would break the treaty. This means the Parshendi knew that he would assassinate the King. So if they were not actually his masters they were working with his masters.
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Another thing. The Pashendi seem too Honor-bound to be servants of Odium. They may be powered by Odium (like the Kandra were with Ruin), but I think that they are of Honor. Kaladin recognizes their honor, and to a lesser extent, so does Dalinar.
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they got an assassin to kill Gavilar during a celebration of the peace treaty he made with them. Not very honourable.
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That depends on the motives behind the assassination, which we still don't know. I know it may seem unlikely, but he may have been killed for an honorable cause. It was only a few months before Gavilar's death that he became an honorable man. Before that, he was just as much of a prat as the rest of the Alethi nobility. If the Parshendi's motive was based on the old Gavilar, they could feel it was just and good without it actually being so.
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Another thing. The Pashendi seem too Honor-bound to be servants of Odium. They may be powered by Odium (like the Kandra were with Ruin), but I think that they are of Honor. Kaladin recognizes their honor, and to a lesser extent, so does Dalinar.
Odium is...o·di·um
/ˈoʊdiəm/ oh-dee-uhm
–noun
1. intense hatred or dislike, especially toward a person or thing regarded as contemptible, despicable, or repugnant.
2. the reproach, discredit, or opprobrium attaching to something hated or repugnant: He had to bear the odium of neglecting his family.
3. the state or quality of being hated.
Origin:
1595–1605; < Latin: hatred, equivalent to od ( isse ) to hate + -ium -ium
—Synonyms
1. detestation, abhorrence, antipathy. 2. obloquy.
—Antonyms
1. love.
Nothing there prevents some amount of honor, and we KNOW that Odium can be convinced to not only choose a champion, but abide by the outcome of whatever contest the champions engage in, otherwise Honor wouldn't suggest getting him to choose a champion.
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Odium is...o·di·um
/ˈoʊdiəm/ oh-dee-uhm
–noun
1. intense hatred or dislike, especially toward a person or thing regarded as contemptible, despicable, or repugnant.
2. the reproach, discredit, or opprobrium attaching to something hated or repugnant: He had to bear the odium of neglecting his family.
3. the state or quality of being hated.
Origin:
1595–1605; < Latin: hatred, equivalent to od ( isse ) to hate + -ium -ium
—Synonyms
1. detestation, abhorrence, antipathy. 2. obloquy.
—Antonyms
1. love.
Nothing there prevents some amount of honor, and we KNOW that Odium can be convinced to not only choose a champion, but abide by the outcome of whatever contest the champions engage in, otherwise Honor wouldn't suggest getting him to choose a champion.
Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules