Timewaster's Guide Archive
Local Authors => Brandon Sanderson => Topic started by: schmiddynick on September 30, 2010, 02:41:35 PM
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so i was reading WoK again today and i noticed this particular passage by Wit (Hoid)
“I must. I hope to return. I’ll do so if I’m not killed. Probably will anyway. Apologize to your nephew for me.”
he's remarking that even if he gets killed he'll still most likely come back. is this hoid just being sarcastic and messing around or do you think its a hint at one of the abilities he has besides planet-hopping? like every time he dies he can come back again? it would definitely fit in with Hoid being this amazing uebermensch/superman character
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"I’ll do so if I’m not killed. Probably will anyway." can be read two ways:
"I'll (probably) do so if not killed."
"I'll do so if I'm not killed. And I probably will even if I am killed."
I read it the first way.
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Shouldn't your first reading require a comma after "will"?
I always took for granted that it was the latter. Since my theory is still that Hoid is a shadesmar creature creating physical representations of himself on all the planets he touches, death of the "avatars" would be a small thing, indeed.
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Pechvarry, that makes a lot of sense. Hoid doesn't have to "teleport" anywhere because he exists within Shadesmar, aka the Cognitive Realm, aka the one thing that has been stated ties all of the worlds together. I'm definitely a fan of that theory, because it sort of fits in line with Brandon's way of writing and world building as well. Right now everyone is wondering "How can Hoid teleport to all of these worlds?" and Brandon probably loves the fact that everyone is asking the wrong questions.
Back on topic though, what does "I must" refer to? What must Wit/Hoid do? I can't remember. At this point, the "I'll do so" in the third sentence could refer to the "I must" or the "I hope to return" part of that passage. In either case, he will definitely be doing either of those things whether he is killed or not, and I read that sentence the second way. I'm not even sure there is more than one way to read that sentence, it seems a bit of stretch to try and interpret it that first way.
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i really like that idea of Hoid just using shadesmar to get between the worlds. and if he is able to manipulate and access shadesmar with such skill wouldnt it be possible that he'll eventually run into jasnah or shallan as they make one of their trips to shadesmar?
and the "must" he is referring to is leaving the shattered plains, elhokar and all the other nobility this whole conversation was at one of elhokars dinner parties.
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Hoid using Shadesmar as a link to all of the worlds makes a lot of sense, especially if he is just some sort of spirit that materializes in each world as he sees fit. I'm excited to see more evidence of something like this in future books.
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Well this quote by Wit seems to corroborate your theory Pechvarry
“I’ve many.” The man shook Kaladin’s hand. “I began life as a thought, a concept, words on a page. That was another thing I stole. Myself. Another time, I was named for a rock.”
Perhaps Hoid is an ideal, and any planet that has this ideal he can create a manifestation of himself from shademar.
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Blood and ashes, *I* came into this thread to say that! >:|
*Kykeon glares at Chosen*
:p
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great minds think alike eh?
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Well, I wonder what Hoid represents then? If Hoid is some physical representation of a cognitive ideal that resides in Shadesmar, him leaving could have some serious implications on Roshar. Maybe if he is "killed" it simply means that a particular ideal no longer exists in the minds of men on that planet?
Just to throw out a random example, if the ideal of honor no longer exists in Roshar, and Hoid represented that ideal, he wouldn't be able to appear back in Roshar until honor returned among the people. Similar to Syl in a way I would think, but I don't think Hoid would classify as a Spren. It might be completely insane to even go down that path, and I could be looking way too into the matter, but it's an interesting thought I think.
That would be why he said he would return even if he was killed... it's kind of a strangely philosophical idea of being "killed" but how else could an ideal be killed? This entire theory rests on the fact that Hoid is a physical representation of some kind of ideal from the Cognitive Realm though, so if he's human, then this whole post is hogwash :)
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The thought would most likely have to be linked to the shattering of Adonalsium since Hoid was there.
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I think Hoid just lacks the good taste necessary to die, or he could have just been saying that to mess with Dalinar.
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another thing i find kind of curious about hoid is his mention of being named for a rock.
“A beautiful one,” the man said. “And one that became completely worthless for my wearing it.”
do you think this could tie into his actual origin and role as some sort of associate with Adonalsium - isn't Adonalsium thought of as a "crystal"
or could it be just one of the aliases he's used on the worlds he's visited, known and otherwise.
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I had mentioned before that the "rock" could be adonalsium, but by fleshing out my idea, I start to feel like I'm writing fanfic:
We already know Hoid can use Shadesmar -- the Cognitive Realm. If that's because he actually exists in the cognitive realm, then he's actually a thought - a concept. If he held Adonalsium and made it crappy for holding it, he broke it. Or at least contributed to its shattering. So what would he represent? How about the responsibility for all of its pieces? Thus, he manifests on every world because they are all his responsibility.
And while all of that seems sound to me, I can't help but read it and think "I'm way off in left field."
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Not necessarily. It may just be a guilt thing. He might not be the direct reason, but in his head, he sees himself being a cause of the shattering. This may or may not necessarily be true, but in his head it is.
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Maybe he started out as a thought, a concept, and then he took the body of whoever it is in Dragonsteel. He uses the body to communicate, and the body's mind has fused with the concept's own. (Sort of like the relationship between shardholders and shards)
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what if Hoid is a direct part of Adonalsium.. sort of like ruin and preservation were split into 3 parts on Scadriel. what is the same side-effect of these shards being split is exactly what happened to adonalsium and hoid is just one of these components
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I think Hoid existing in Shadesmar is a pretty good theory. The possibility of pseudo-reincarnation made me think of the beginning of "The Liar of Partinel" (Dragonsteel). And isn't Dragonsteel the second planned series (besides the Stormlight Archive) that's supposed to feature Hoid's backstory?
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I can't think Brandon would create this universe, with the Shards of Adonalsium and all their separate magic systems, just to have Hoid try to undo the whole universe. That sounds so self-defeating.
So I think Hoid wants a compromise, gathering a bit of all the Shards so he can be a Wizard of Everything instead of a Shard of One Thing, and travel between the worlds telling stories, and maybe serve as a mediator if some Shardholders become dangerous. But he doesn't want to merge them all together completely.
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Yeah, the real magic (to me) is that Adonalsium should never be reassembled (if it's even possible). So much has come from its split -- an entire cosmos, in fact. So I don't like the idea that Hoid wants to reunite it. But I DO think he has a vested interest in protecting all of its pieces.
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I think Hoid's main role is to keep balance between the shards.
He helps restore Elantris.
He helps overthrow the Final Empire, which leads to the release of Ruin, but then Ati and Leras are both killed, and their shards given to another who would be able to keep the balance between the two.
Helps stop the destruction of the Returned and other kingdoms.
He helps the people of Roshar try and stop the dominating reign of Odium (I assume).
To me he is not supporting one shard, or even trying the reunite the shards. Instead he is ensuring that no shard becomes dominant over all others. There seems to be a balance which is restored at the end of all Brandon's books.
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great minds think alike eh?
I guess... ;D
To me he is not supporting one shard, or even trying the reunite the shards. Instead he is ensuring that no shard becomes dominant over all others. There seems to be a balance which is restored at the end of all Brandon's books.
That sounds about right...