Timewaster's Guide Archive
Local Authors => Brandon Sanderson => Topic started by: Kykeon on September 16, 2010, 09:43:50 PM
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I have this weird hunch that Dalinar made his trip to the valley to ask for Renarin's life while he was still an infant...
The only real evidence I can present is that he looked at him directly when speaking about it, and that Dalinar isn't the type to make frivolous wishes, especially not when the practice of dealing with the Nightwatcher.
Other ideas?
Step forward. ;)
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I made a thread about this before.
I thought that his curse was forgetting his wife, but someone else suggested that maybe he asked for those memories to be taken away after she died.
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I have this weird hunch that Dalinar made his trip to the valley to ask for Renarin's life while he was still an infant...
The only real evidence I can present is that he looked at him directly when speaking about it, and that Dalinar isn't the type to make frivolous wishes, especially not when the practice of dealing with the Nightwatcher.
Other ideas?
Step forward. ;)
Dalinar isn't currently the type to make frivolous wishes. Remember, he talks about a recent dramatic change of personality in the book, so he may previously have been likely to do things he'd now consider wrong, trivial, or even pointless.
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also, he might have looked at Renarin when the topic came up, but he definitely seemed ashamed/wished he hadn't done it. If he saved Renarin's life with his trip, then wishing he hadn't gone would almost be like wishing Renarin were dead.
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I kinda thought he asked for the pain over the loss of his wife to be taken away, and the Nightwatcher just wiped her completly from his mind. Pain gone, but now he'll never remember her...
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I kinda thought he asked for the pain over the loss of his wife to be taken away, and the Nightwatcher just wiped her completly from his mind. Pain gone, but now he'll never remember her...
i dunno, i'd kinda doubt this. Especially since he speaks how he had always wanted Navani, but stepped aside for Gavilar. It just seems like the "death of his wife" wouldn't be as big of a deal to him, considering his marriage was a shame, because he was just settling since he couldn't have Navani.
That's how i see it at least. That's why i dont really agree with the gift being anything relating to his wife in specific, and assume the curse to be loss of his memories of her.
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I figured his curse and his boon were the same thing. He asked to forget his wife, thinking to lose the pain, but now years later, he realized what a curse it is.
Nightwatcher was probably jumping for joy when he heard what Dalinar requested. He didn't even have to think of a curse to match the favor.
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Nightwatcher was probably jumping for joy when he heard what Dalinar requested. He didn't even have to think of a curse to match the favor.
Nightwatcher is a woman.
My personal thought was that Dalinar's "gift" was losing the memories of his wife. I'm not sure why he would ask for it--maybe he knew something about her, or about her death, that he didn't want to remember.
And I don't think that we have seen his true curse yet. Or it could be that his curse is something to do with Renarin (which might be why he looked at him). Maybe it is his fault (by seeking the Old Magic) that Renarin is weak and he feels like he needs to make it up to him by getting him Shardplate.
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I thought the gift was losing memories of his wife, until just now on my re-read, page 859: "Would that day never stop haunting him? Was not losing all memory of his wife enough?"
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I think it might be that he asked for Navani, and his curse was his wife dying and/or losing memory of her.
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I think it might be that he asked for Navani, and his curse was his wife dying and/or losing memory of her.
So you mean that Dalinar used the nightwatcher to magic his brother dead after he conciously chose to leave Nevani to him? :/
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I think it might be that he asked for Navani, and his curse was his wife dying and/or losing memory of her.
So you mean that Dalinar used the nightwatcher to magic his brother dead after he conciously chose to leave Nevani to him? :/
Wouldn't be the first time he thought of killing his brother over her. And probably didn't intend for his brother to die.
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I think it might be that he asked for Navani, and his curse was his wife dying and/or losing memory of her.
If he had asked for her, I don't think there would have been a fifteen year delay until they became a couple.
Another possibility is that his wife (or someone else) was dying, and he asked for them to be healed. If it was his wife, then that would be... ironic... to a depressing degree.
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I think it might be that he asked for Navani, and his curse was his wife dying and/or losing memory of her.
If he had asked for her, I don't think there would have been a fifteen year delay until they became a couple.
Another possibility is that his wife (or someone else) was dying, and he asked for them to be healed. If it was his wife, then that would be... ironic... to a depressing degree.
Wouldn't be the first time I have seen a delay in stuff like that but yeah when I think about it it isn't that good of a theory.
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The problem with trying to work out the gift and curse is that we are making the assumptions of what Dalinar would choose from the character we are shown in WoK. However I think that he went to Nightwatcher before the assassination of the King, and we know from numerous references that Dalinar was a completely different person before the assassination, before he started honouring the codes and before he started hearing passages from the way of kings. This makes it almost impossible to try and work out what sort of gift the old Dalinar would ask for.
However, from my reading of the book, I have a fairly strong suspicion that losing the memories of his wife wasn't the curse (or at least was not at the time, he may look back on it now and regret his decision). This leads me to the theory of whether the gift and curse can be the same thing. A loss of painful memories may be a gift at the time, but it could very soon become a curse.
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I think I'm on board with the idea that he asked to lose the pain of his wife's death, and the accompanying curse was losing all memory of her.
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I also think that's the right idea. I doubt that the wish had something to do with Navani, as I got the impression that he'd gotten over Navani after she chose Gavilar (?), met and sincerely fallen in love with a different woman, who he married. I also think that his wish had something to do with his wife, he likely wished the pain of her death to be taken away, and so he lost all his memories of his wife. The only question I can think of is when he went to the nightwatcher. I do think it likely that he drank so heavily on the night of the treaty signing, acting surly and completely ignoring his brother's advice, because of either his grief over his wife's death, or his grief at losing all memories of his wife.
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Do we know when he sought the Old Magic or when his wife died? I'm sure the latter happened first, but is there any mention about whether these things happened before or after Gavilar's death. Not that I think it actually matters, I'm just curious. All I can find is "many years" ago.
One thing, I don't think the curse and the boon could be the same thing. I think they are always separate. This is pretty much our best source of information on the Old Magic so far:“Doesn’t work that way,” Av said. “It’s not a game, no matter how the stories try to put it. The Nightwatcher doesn’t trick you or twist your words. You ask a boon. She gives what she feels you deserve, then gives you a curse to go along with it. Sometimes related, sometimes not.”
I can't decide if the memory loss is the boon or the curse, but I'm leaning towards curse. Our other two examples of curses (given by Av, again) are two numb hands and seeing the world upside down. Our one example of a boon is a bolt of cloth. Av says that all his family regretted the curse except for his father. The memory loss seems to fit with the other curses better than the boon.
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I would almost say that Dalinar's inability to hold the Thrill was his curse, but I'm pretty sure thats more related to the readings of tWoK and the highstorm visions than the old magic. But just putting it out there anyway.
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when did he go to the nightwatcher? I think it would be helpful to consider the timeline, because it all probably happened long before Gavilar died
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When I read it, I felt all along that losing the memories of his wife was the curse. I think that's supported by the line quoted earlier about "wasn't losing all memory of her enough?"
One thing that hasn't been elaborated on very much yet in WoK is Dalinar's earlier consideration of killing his brother and taking the crown for himself. He was a very different person back then, and his previous personality must be considered. It would be helpful to know exactly when he went to the Nightwatcher, of course.
I don't know; I just don't think his wish has anything to do with his forgotton wife. Maybe it has to do with his earlier lust for the crown. Hell, maybe the personality change is what he wished for in the first place. "Please, Nightwatcher, make me a nicer guy. kthx."