Timewaster's Guide Archive
Local Authors => Brandon Sanderson => Topic started by: Andrew the Great on September 10, 2010, 07:52:38 AM
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We've all heard everyone's concern about our friendly neighborhood Terrisman. Will he be ok now that Odium's around, and Saze holds two Shards, thus making him something of a threat. What I've been wondering about, though, is how is Saze going to hold up with both Ruin and Preservation attempting to shape him to fit them better?
We know that the Shards do affect the nature of their Bearers. After all, Ati was apparently a kind man at first, rather than a raving lunatic who only really wants to destroy the world. So what's going to happen to Saze now that he's got two opposing Shards working on him? Will the two cancel each other out, or is Saze going to go insane? Or something else?
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It's been a while, but I recall that Preservation planned quite a ways out into the future. Back when he was convincing Ruin to work with him to create humanity, he was planning that some day, one of these creations would take up the mantle of both of the shards. Neither Leras nor Ati could do so themselves; they needed a being who possessed the nature of both to do it.
In other words, Sazed was made for this. I suspect he'll do just fine.
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I suspect Sazed has/will become an aspect which is of both preservation and ruin - perhaps something like a 'cycle of life' - things live and grow and then die and fall apart.
Remember that Preservation's power alone isn't enough for life - it took both Preservation and Ruin to create humans. I'm sure that if Preservation alone somehow managed to kill off ruin and still stay fully powerful, he wouldn't be an entirely wonderful god either. If you perfectly "preserved" the world, nothing would ever change, for better or for worse. I would imagine a place of perfect "preservation" would be just.. stasis.
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The question I see hear is how much of a threat is Odium to Sazed? I mean, Odium has one Shard. Sazed has two. I mean, that's got to count for something right?
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I thought Odium has killed other Shardholders. Maybe he has their shards?
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I don't think you can take another person's Shard if you already have one. To point, wouldn't Ati have taken Leras's Shard once Leras died?
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I suspect Sazed has/will become an aspect which is of both preservation and ruin - perhaps something like a 'cycle of life' - things live and grow and then die and fall apart.
Remember that Preservation's power alone isn't enough for life - it took both Preservation and Ruin to create humans. I'm sure that if Preservation alone somehow managed to kill off ruin and still stay fully powerful, he wouldn't be an entirely wonderful god either. If you perfectly "preserved" the world, nothing would ever change, for better or for worse. I would imagine a place of perfect "preservation" would be just.. stasis.
Actually, because the Lord Ruler took just Preservation's power, in a very real sense the world under him was very much like what Preservation would have been like, although the Lord Ruler was a little bit crazier (thanks to Ruin).
It's almost like each book in Mistborn is thematically related to what happens with each power in control. In the first book, it's Preservation in charge and Allomancy that get's developed. In the second, it's the balance in charge (neither has an advantage) and Feruchemy gets developed. In the third, it's Ruin and Hemalurgy.
Only balance really turned out to be sustainable.
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I don't think you can take another person's Shard if you already have one. To point, wouldn't Ati have taken Leras's Shard once Leras died?
I was under the impression that he couldn't truly use it, because he no longer understood how to preserve.
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Actually, because the Lord Ruler took just Preservation's power, in a very real sense the world under him was very much like what Preservation would have been like, although the Lord Ruler was a little bit crazier (thanks to Ruin).
It's almost like each book in Mistborn is thematically related to what happens with each power in control. In the first book, it's Preservation in charge and Allomancy that get's developed. In the second, it's the balance in charge (neither has an advantage) and Feruchemy gets developed. In the third, it's Ruin and Hemalurgy.
Only balance really turned out to be sustainable.
Makes sense - though I'd bet that preservation would want a somewhat more pristine world, but it's true that it might end up having a similarly oppressive society. As far as I can tell, it takes constant exposure to a Shard for it to change your outlook on life - the Lord Ruler's first, disastrous act with the Well's power wasn't much under the aegis of 'preservation'.. though you could say his intent was, whatever the results.
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I don't think you can take another person's Shard if you already have one. To point, wouldn't Ati have taken Leras's Shard once Leras died?
I was under the impression that he couldn't truly use it, because he no longer understood how to preserve.
Yeah, but Odium has had his Shard for so long (presumably), that he probably can't use the Shards of the other Shardholders he's killed. Another interesting question would be why Odium is able to kill other Shardholders. Shouldn't they all be equal in power. I'm extrapolating here, but Ruin and Preservation were equal until Preservation gave up some of his power to trap Ruin. So shouldn't Odium only be able to destroy Shardholders who have given up some of their power?
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It is assumed that the shards on each planet gave up some of their power to create the life forms on those planets. It may be that Odium did not aid in the creation of life on roshar though, hence not giving up any of his power.
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whats odium? i've read all but way of kings in the adolsuim universe is it something in the way of kings?
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whats odium? i've read all but way of kings in the adolsuim universe is it something in the way of kings?
Yes.
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It is assumed that the shards on each planet gave up some of their power to create the life forms on those planets. It may be that Odium did not aid in the creation of life on roshar though, hence not giving up any of his power.
Not only that, but all Shards are not created equal.
He holds the most frightening and terrible of all the Shards. Ponder on that for a time, you old reptile, and tell me if your insistence on nonintervention holds firm. Because I assure you, Rayse will not be similarly inhibited.
Granted, the author of the letters *Cough*Hoid*Cough* could just be commenting on the nature of Rayse's shard (which makes sense if he holds Odium). But it does sound like his shard is a little more epically awesome than the others in terms of power.
Also, just because Ruin and Preservation were equally matched, or close enough that one couldn't kill the other without being killed, doesn't mean that we should assume that all shards are this way.
And lastly, though it has virtually no basis here, since this is all pretty metaphysical anyway, in my experience, when you shatter something, it's pieces aren't the same size. Even assuming that Adonalsium shattered based off of personality traits/characteristics as seems to be the case, certain traits would be more dominant in Adonalsium than others. Although if this is the way it works, it's telling that Odium is one of the more powerful Shards, and that's on top of the other messed up ones like Ruin.
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When does Way of Kings take place relative to Mistborn, Elantris, and Warbreaker? It may be that Sazed has been Shardholder for a while, or that Alendi isn't even born yet.
I thought I remembered the books were scattered all over the Overall Timeline. I think Elantris was either very early or late, comparatively.
Though maybe you're right, because now that I think about it, the epigraphs did seem to mention Ati as finished.
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I have relevant quotes for these questions, not just mere speculation!
When does Way of Kings take place relative to Mistborn, Elantris, and Warbreaker? It may be that Sazed has been Shardholder for a while, or that Alendi isn't even born yet.
I thought I remembered the books were scattered all over the Overall Timeline. I think Elantris was either very early or late, comparatively.
Though maybe you're right, because now that I think about it, the epigraphs did seem to mention Ati as finished.
This is one of the answers we got in the 17th Shard interview which should* come this weekend. He said all the books have occurred in chronological order in the cosmere as they've been published. So Elantris, Mistborn, Warbreaker, then Way of Kings, in that order.
Also, Will found out at the Chicago signing that Odium went to Sel before the events of Elantris.
Next, for the actual question at hand, here's what I asked him in May:
Q: Will Sazed eventually go mad trying to hold two Shard's power at the same time (being pushed to two different Purposes simultaneously for millennia)? Why hasn't anyone else tried this trick before in the Cosmere?
ANSWER: No. Since they're so opposite they work together to create a whole. However, after a LONG time it would change him as a person.
So... there you have it, I guess?
whats odium? i've read all but way of kings in the adolsuim universe is it something in the way of kings?
Yes, this is probably quite spoilery. I strongly suggest you read it.
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whats odium? i've read all but way of kings in the adolsuim universe is it something in the way of kings?
Heheheh, you're so close to knowing everything, it's just that the majority of what we know comes from WoK now. Sorry, you're out of the loop!
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whats odium? i've read all but way of kings in the adolsuim universe is it something in the way of kings?
Heheheh, you're so close to knowing everything, it's just that the majority of what we know comes from WoK now. Sorry, you're out of the loop!
DANG! I just don't have the cash to get it right now!!!!
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Q: Will Sazed eventually go mad trying to hold two Shard's power at the same time (being pushed to two different Purposes simultaneously for millennia)? Why hasn't anyone else tried this trick before in the Cosmere?
ANSWER: No. Since they're so opposite they work together to create a whole. However, after a LONG time it would change him as a person.
So... there you have it, I guess?
It sounds to me like Sazed won't go mad or become either of the powers individually. He will become the embodiment of both powers together, becoming the mandate that both powers be used.
Could be worse. At least using the powers together implies creation and balance rather than absolute stasis or destruction. I do hope he shows up again in the timeline so we can know how it turns out for him, and if he ever gives up the powers. There's gotta be something that happens with all this, right?
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well, all they need to do is get some imodium that should fix things.
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well, all they need to do is get some imodium that should fix things.
Some... what?
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maybe the ruin/preservation combo creates the policy of nonintervention that HOID mentions in his letter
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maybe the ruin/preservation combo creates the policy of nonintervention that HOID mentions in his letter
The letter isn't written to Sazed, though. Note how it refers to Ati and Rayse as though they both knew them.
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well, all they need to do is get some imodium that should fix things.
Oh, that was bad. Where's the rimshot? :)
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I think Sazed will be pushed to some Taoist ideal of balance, although Chaos2651 has the quotes saying it'd take a long time if it happens.
And as for Odium being dangerous, I just think HATE HATE KILL KILL HATE KILL is an awfully more useful Shard power when it comes to combating other Shards. What it lacks in raw power, say against the 2 Shards on Sel, it makes up for in having no limits in its application. (edit: It's basically what power-gamers do when we realize all these different things have the same cost in character creation, but one sure is a lot more useful in combat... Rayse was clearly a power-gamer.)
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We can hope he's a min-maxer, and the game has 20 point flaws like 'dies instantly if you eat the egg of a golden chicken.'