Timewaster's Guide Archive
Departments => Books => Topic started by: JCHancey on August 02, 2010, 05:12:28 AM
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.. and I gotta say I'm disappointed. ASoIaF has been kind of a let down. Everybody who told me to read it was drooling over how epic it is. It's good, but not that good. I think I enjoyed A Game of Thrones the most, and now I dread having to read anything from anyone that isn't on the Wall. /end rant
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I hated GoT but i loved the rest of them lol!
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If you're looking for storytelling you're not going to find it in ASOIAF. It's about enjoying Martin's style and prose. That's what most ppl are drooling over.
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I actually like the story. The only storylines I could do without are anything involving the Greyjoys.
But it's a slow-moving series, very exploded. I listened to the audiobooks on long commutes, so at that time, the longer the better was what I was in the mood for. There are definitely a lot of despicable people in the series...which promotes a morbid fascination, to an extent. It's not for everyone, that's for sure.
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I find the story, as well as many aspects of the writing itself, to be remarkably compelling. My main issue with ASoIaF, is the characters.
As of A Feast for Crows, there are perhaps three characters left alive that I actually like. Their stories fascinate me far more than the rest, which means I have to slog through many large sections filled with characters I hate or simply don't care about in order to finally get back to a chapter with Jon or Arya or Daenerys. And Martin's habit of killing off his characters, in particular the ones that readers seem to like the most, prevents me from caring too much about someone else. I don't know of the latter has happened to anyone else while reading, but for me the violence and realism of 'anyone can die' has backfired - the ony time I care anymore is if it's one of the characters I like, and there are so few of those left.
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Reading from Cersie's PoV is like taking a hot iron to my brain. Unfortunately I can't skip those chapters, my conscience won't let me XD. At this point I'm just reading this book to say I've read it. Nothing is happening at all, and, in my opinion, is equivalent to Crossroads of Twilight. All I want to read is Arya's PoV. That's become the most interesting.
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Reading from Cersie's PoV is like taking a hot iron to my brain. Unfortunately I can't skip those chapters, my conscience won't let me XD. At this point I'm just reading this book to say I've read it. Nothing is happening at all, and, in my opinion, is equivalent to Crossroads of Twilight. All I want to read is Arya's PoV. That's become the most interesting.
Yeah, I can't skip them either. I sate myself by shouting cuss words in my head at characters I hate while reading their POV.
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I find the story, as well as many aspects of the writing itself, to be remarkably compelling. My main issue with ASoIaF, is the characters.
As of A Feast for Crows, there are perhaps three characters left alive that I actually like. Their stories fascinate me far more than the rest, which means I have to slog through many large sections filled with characters I hate or simply don't care about in order to finally get back to a chapter with Jon or Arya or Daenerys. And Martin's habit of killing off his characters, in particular the ones that readers seem to like the most, prevents me from caring too much about someone else. I don't know of the latter has happened to anyone else while reading, but for me the violence and realism of 'anyone can die' has backfired - the ony time I care anymore is if it's one of the characters I like, and there are so few of those left.
When has Martin ever killed off a character that ppl may have really liked and grown attached to? Even Eddie wasn't particulary interesting as far as characters go. As for his son, Martin didn't even give him one POV page so readers barely even knew him before he was killed. And did anyone really care that Joffrey and the Hound died? I really don't understand where this myth got started that Martin is willing to kill off anyone. Truth be told, Martin hasn't killed off anyone that readers could possibly have grown attached to and a majority of the ones who are dead deserved it.
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I find the story, as well as many aspects of the writing itself, to be remarkably compelling. My main issue with ASoIaF, is the characters.
As of A Feast for Crows, there are perhaps three characters left alive that I actually like. Their stories fascinate me far more than the rest, which means I have to slog through many large sections filled with characters I hate or simply don't care about in order to finally get back to a chapter with Jon or Arya or Daenerys. And Martin's habit of killing off his characters, in particular the ones that readers seem to like the most, prevents me from caring too much about someone else. I don't know of the latter has happened to anyone else while reading, but for me the violence and realism of 'anyone can die' has backfired - the ony time I care anymore is if it's one of the characters I like, and there are so few of those left.
When has Martin ever killed off a character that ppl may have really liked and grown attached to? Even Eddie wasn't particulary interesting as far as characters go. As for his son, Martin didn't even give him one POV page so readers barely even knew him before he was killed. And did anyone really care that Joffrey and the Hound died? I really don't understand where this myth got started that Martin is willing to kill off anyone. Truth be told, Martin hasn't killed off anyone that readers could possibly have grown attached to and a majority of the ones who are dead deserved it.
Okay... potential spoiler warning...
I'm serious.
Different people become attached to different characters. I became attached, quite quickly, to pretty much all of the Starks - although Sansa lost me, for the most part, about halfway through A Game of Thrones. I've started liking her a bit more since.
I found Eddard very interesting, personally. Eddard and Robb were among two of my favourite characters in the beginning, and I admit a fondness for Catelyn as well. Oberyn Martell, Khal Drogo, Jeor Mormont, numerous other minor and non-viewpoint characters that, unfortunately, can't remember the names of because it's been how many years since A Feast For Crows came out, and I haven't picked up one of the books since.
A character need not be a POV in order for a reader to become attached to them. Yes, it made the impact of some deaths incredibly powerful, especially Eddard and Robb, but after a while I just got tired of it. And where Martin got the reputation... well, by doing it. Go to ASoIaF forums, and you'll find debate threads about who's going to die next, with the more likable characters considered the most likely.
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@Peter: Looks like GRRM is back into Song of Ice and fire mode due to his excitement about the new series. He is posting lots of updates on his blog. He may also have a contract with HBO that requires him to finish the series in a certain amount of time or they may void his contract. So that HBO can make it into a series.
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Ed was cool Robb annoyed the hell out of me, but then again so does his momma. (she's better now though.... much more interesting this last book) I love the realism, it draws the reader in much more so and you start to love even the little s**** of the story like Tyrion because they are ALWAYS in danger. It is in short much more engaging.
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@Peter: Looks like GRRM is back into Song of Ice and fire mode due to his excitement about the new series. He is posting lots of updates on his blog. He may also have a contract with HBO that requires him to finish the series in a certain amount of time or they may void his contract. So that HBO can make it into a series.
HBO has no bearing on his writing contracts. More likely he got through the part that was giving him trouble, and now sees a measure of direction for the story. I don't doubt the interest in the TV series (since he worked in Hollywood for years) has helped him, but to say HBO has any say over his writing the book series is much too hard to believe.
Edit: And I too find the story and characters very well done in GRRM's series. I like that there are characters I love and characters I hate (in my opinion, it's by design--you can tell when he wants you to start liking or disliking a character). And yeah, a character doesn't need to have entire novels dedicated to their PoV for them to be important, or for the reader to care about them. So, when Martin kills them off, or cripples them, that sense of danger if fed off onto the other characters. That's what I like. That gritty sense of danger pervading the series.
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Well I finally gave up, for a little bit. I can't take the nothing happening anymore! Good long break...
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GRRM posted a followup to someone in one of his blogs that he is more involved in the TV show because:
1. he was not desperate for money so would not sell his books unless he got some authority. I saw an interview with Dianna Gabaldon where she basically said the same thing. The money is nice, but I have money so I won't license this unless I like what I hear.
2. has written TV series before so they trust him more. I believe Goodkind and Jim Butcher were ignored. I don't think anyone from the Tolkein estate were involved either.
3. He is probably making a whole lot of money. If this goes for all 7 books he will get several million dollars.
I get the impression that he is reinvigorated because of the TV series. I think he may have gotten burned out on the books for a while. He made alot of money on these books, lives in a fairly inexpensive area, so didn't really need to work. He also has blogged that the books are very hard for him to write and get alot harder. Sitting down and slogging through something that is incredibly hard and getting hard is not alot of fun.
I think its also because this is his baby and he has really high standards. If he doesn't love what he writes he won't publish it. He could have finished the series already with mediocre books and made alot of money.
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My favourite is Tyrion Lannister. Smart, witty and short.
*Spoiler warning for whole series*
But I hated how GRRM destroyed his reputation at the hight of his power. I was like yes, people are starting to give Tyrion some respect, and then Tywin had to come in and spoil everything.
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Eh, I liked it. If only because Tywin was a horrible man who needed what happened to him after that. And I look forward to seeing what Tyrion does now.
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Eh, I liked it. If only because Tywin was a horrible man who needed what happened to him after that. And I look forward to seeing what Tyrion does now.
Yes, Tyrion is quite the devil, which makes him so enjoyable. ;) If anyone can come back from this low, it will be Tywin.
In other news, I just think that Peter Dinkle will play an awesome Tywin. Can't wait until GoT comes out next year! Yay!
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I finally finished it. I stopped reading it about halfway through and read some other, better books. The ending was much better than I thought it would be. The middle section made me want to vomit. It did it's job making me anticipate the next book though.
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Now welcome to the long wait...
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I honestly don't understand what people see in the series. It's a good story, it's just not that remarkable. A world where the seasons change slowly is as old as the pulp magazines. The Dragon killed by the Lion to be threatened by the Wolf feels like a Middle-English poem to me. The rest of the plot feels like a fantasy version of War and Peace. I am a firm believer that his writing makes the series so compelling.
All but one character I liked remained alive after book two, and he's not even in a Feast for Crows. Jon Snow has been beyond the Wall for over a decade! By rights, the next time we see him, he should be thirty-five.
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For me it was the amazing character development. Even for the characters that I hate, I can still acknowledge how well they've been created, and who each character has its own distinct voice.
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Also, the lack of magic is refreshing
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The Lannisters and the Freys seem to be the most dysfunctional houses in Westeros.
The others b!tch and quarrel, but at least there is a semblance of cohesion.
Also, the lack of magic is refreshing
There is magic, but it'S a thing for scholars.
What is weird is that the Maesters never managed to get any arcane knowledge from the Asshai. :o
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On the plus side, they said at NYCC that Martin is on the last two chapters of A Dance of Dragons. I can't find the link anymore, so here's what I wrote at the time.
http://daranthered.blogspot.com/2010/10/winter-is-coming-at-long-last.html
I promised myself a long time ago that I wouldn't read any more of the series until it was finished. I was pretty lost when I started Feast. I had to go back and reread the whole series. I'd have to do that again, so I'm waiting.
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he seemed to have gotten re-invigorated on writing these books since the HBO picked up the series. I got the sense he was having so much trouble with these books and he was such a perfectionist, he was getting burned out.
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Martin produces great work, but discovery writers always struggle.
I'm looking forward to that next book. It's been a long time coming.
My favorite character would have to be a toss up. Every character has so many faults. Jon Snow, Samwell Tarly or Arya would have to be the big contenders.
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To be honest, i think the main reason for the long wait is that he has to create whole new material to fill in the 5 years that he was previously going to skip. Once that is done, the other books shouldn't take too long to write.
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That's a bit silly. George has stated that what's taken the most time is a plot point he calls the Meereenese Knot, which I believe involves finagling things to get certain people in the right place at the right time.
Future books won't have that particular plot point to solve, but you never know when a tricky plotting situation might come up. It's not like the other books are completely outlined already.
Don't think for a minute that he will start banging out the books now. A perfectionist streak in a writer does not generally go away.