Timewaster's Guide Archive
General => Everything Else => Topic started by: Eerongal on April 22, 2010, 03:54:10 PM
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Batman vs. Darth Vader. Who would win?
http://www.collegehumor.com/picture:1935595
Batman. Darth vader may have skill and the force, but batman has more wits, bravery, and tricks up his sleeve than vader can even begin to comprehend. Plus, he's batman.
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Two words: force choke.
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One word: Batman.
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Two words: force choke.
Using the force requires concentration, and from what we've seen of force choking, it seems to take quite a bit of concentration (from watching vader use it).
I'm pretty sure batman would retain enough prescense of mind to break said concentration (batarangs or something while being choked).
This is assuming that you can't outright resist it with willpower, as I'm not sure if you can or not with *FORCE CHOKE* specifically. i know like the mind trick and stuff can, but i suppose it depends on how the specifics of choke work, i.e. is there a tiny telekenetic barrier closing in on your throat, or is it making your mind close your airway?
My 2 cents, anyways. I can only formulate plans/ideas within *MY* abilities, not batman's :P
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That would be a really close fight. As Eerongal said a good portion of being affected by force abilities is the loss of mental concentration. I think Batman would do well at keeping up and he would put up an astounding fight.
However, if it was Bane V. Batman. . . . well, let's just say they'd change is name to Bruce Payne.
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That would be a really close fight. As Eerongal said a good portion of being affected by force abilities is the loss of mental concentration. I think Batman would do well at keeping up and he would put up an astounding fight.
However, if it was Bane V. Batman. . . . well, let's just say they'd change is name to Bruce Payne.
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Bane as in the batman villain or bane as in the dude from clone wars or whatever, who i only recognize in name and have no real clue *WHO* he is?
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Bane was the Dark Lord of the Sith who destroyed the Brotherhood of the Sith in attempt to bring back the true power and purpose of the Sith.
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I don't know . . . Darth Vader stopped a whole barrage of blaster bolts. With his hand. I'm thinking a batarang isn't going to do much.
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I don't know . . . Darth Vader stopped a whole barrage of blaster bolts. With his hand. I'm thinking a batarang isn't going to do much.
Except he's all ready concentrating for the force choke. From the movies, it looks like it requires some relatively intense concentration for the force choke, all i'm looking for with the batarang is to disrupt that. If he has to stop concentrating on that to stop it, so be it, or if it hits him, thats fine too.
Either way, my point is that batman would interrupt him somehow to break it off. How, i'm not sure, I'm not batman. :P
Edit: also, if we're going adam west style batman, no contest. Bat-force repellent, anyone? :P
(man, i love the goofy old 70's batman)
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er... I said nothing about force choke. That was Ryos. About the only way I can see Batman winning is if he knocks out Vader's electrical systems, but in doing that, he'd kill Vader (and Batman doesn't do that).
So lets look at this. Batman can't (1) hit him with anything (e.g. blaster bolt blocking) or (2) sneak up on him in a fair fight (so he didn't sense Han coming at the first Death Star; Vader was concentrating on killing Luke, which, like you said, takes a 'lot of concentration'. Unless Batman is saving Luke?). That pretty much screws Batman if it's a mano a mano duel.
In sum, the only way Batman could win is if Vader was so distracted by something else that a two year old could sneak up on him and say 'boo'. Granted, not impossible, but lets say that of the infinite scenarios where the two could be pitted against each other, Vader wins 99.9% of them.
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I could buy that. Ok, two more words: light saber. If you presume Batman's ninja training is equal to Jedi training (something that's impossible to guage), an unblockable sword is a pretty awesome upper hand.
It's possible Vader's extensive prosthetics have slowed him down. That's hard to gauge, since the choreography in the old movies was quite slow. Vader only really fought the aged Ben Kenobi and the amateur Luke Skywalker, so it's hard to say how much he may have slowed down based on his opponents.
Edit: also, if we're going adam west style batman, no contest. Bat-force repellent, anyone?
YES. With a label on the can, of course. :P
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er... I said nothing about force choke. That was Ryos. About the only way I can see Batman winning is if he knocks out Vader's electrical systems, but in doing that, he'd kill Vader (and Batman doesn't do that).
That depends. Pre-infinite crisis batman had no qualms against killing. Modern day batman has a "thou-shalt not kill" rule, however, i believe he breaks that vow if absolutely (i'm pretty sure superman's the one who actively and painfully goes out of his way to avoid killing)
So lets look at this. Batman can't (1) hit him with anything (e.g. blaster bolt blocking) or (2) sneak up on him in a fair fight (so he didn't sense Han coming at the first Death Star; Vader was concentrating on killing Luke, which, like you said, takes a 'lot of concentration'. Unless Batman is saving Luke?). That pretty much screws Batman if it's a mano a mano duel.
In sum, the only way Batman could win is if Vader was so distracted by something else that a two year old could sneak up on him and say 'boo'. Granted, not impossible, but lets say that of the infinite scenarios where the two could be pitted against each other, Vader wins 99.9% of them.
but see, that's my point. Batman is tricky, vader is cocky. Batman just needs to lure vader into a situation where he can both distract and take down vader.
The batarang thing is talking about disrupting his concentration. There's no doubt in my mind if he just threw one (or one hundred) at vader, it wouldn't work. :P
I could buy that. Ok, two more words: light saber. If you presume Batman's ninja training is equal to Jedi training (something that's impossible to guage), an unblockable sword is a pretty awesome upper hand.
It's possible Vader's extensive prosthetics have slowed him down. That's hard to gauge, since the choreography in the old movies was quite slow. Vader only really fought the aged Ben Kenobi and the amateur Luke Skywalker, so it's hard to say how much he may have slowed down based on his opponents.
That's actually a good point. How slow is vader these days? We don't see him get down to fighting too much, but I assume he's still at *LEAST* half-way decent (read: better than any of us)
Edit: also, if we're going adam west style batman, no contest. Bat-force repellent, anyone?
YES. With a label on the can, of course. :P
Obviously.
Edit: Also - We aren't nerds! Shut up! We're just arguing about batman vs. vader in an online medium! :P
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Yeah. What's nerdy about that? It's not like we're doing math or anything.
Oh, any of you guys know an algorithm that would take into account the appropriate factors which might lead to a situation where Batman wins?
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Yeah. What's nerdy about that? It's not like we're doing math or anything.
Oh, any of you guys know an algorithm that would take into account the appropriate factors which might lead to a situation where Batman wins?
unless i miss my guess, it's something like:
(((prepTime) + (batarangCount)) - (√(ForceStrength^3) + (lightSaberSkill))) * specializedGadgetCount
Edit: also this (http://static.funnyjunk.com/pictures/1258859054211.jpg) amuses me, and is only slightly off topic.
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I've been giving the fight some serious thought, and it occurred to me that after Vader and Batman duked it out, the Predator would show up minutes later and finish off the winner...
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I've been giving the fight some serious thought, and it occurred to me that after Vader and Batman duked it out, the Predator would show up minutes later and finish off the winner...
Oh snap, this duel just became a three-way brawl!
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There is something I think you are all forgetting, and it's a key factor in any fight involving Batman.
Batman prepares for everything. He has kryptonite in case he ever has to kill a rampaging Superman. He has plans and contingency plans and back-up plans and back-up back-up plans for for every known superhuman on his own side on the CHANCE that they might go rogue. It's this attitude that's gotten him into trouble before, and it's that attitude that will defeat Vader.
Batman could sneak up on Vader even if he wasn't distracted, and this would be after long periods of observation and detective work to find out everything he can about the Sith Lord. Deducing weaknesses, observing how he trains and, if possible, how The Force works and can be countered. Everything would be prepared for, even if Vader knows he's there and has Stormtroopers scouring the Death Star to find him.
Batman will win. Why? Because he's Batman.
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I've been giving the fight some serious thought, and it occurred to me that after Vader and Batman duked it out, the Predator would show up minutes later and finish off the winner...
Batman's already beaten the Predator, there's at least 2 Batman vs. Predator comics out there. . .
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I've been giving the fight some serious thought, and it occurred to me that after Vader and Batman duked it out, the Predator would show up minutes later and finish off the winner...
Batman's already beaten the Predator, there's at least 2 Batman vs. Predator comics out there. . .
Holy cow, he's right. I was completely unaware of this specific cross over.
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Oh, I knew about the crossover, and then again, so do the predators. That's why I think they'll vulture the winner :)
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There is something I think you are all forgetting, and it's a key factor in any fight involving Batman.
Batman prepares for everything. He has kryptonite in case he ever has to kill a rampaging Superman. He has plans and contingency plans and back-up plans and back-up back-up plans for for every known superhuman on his own side on the CHANCE that they might go rogue. It's this attitude that's gotten him into trouble before, and it's that attitude that will defeat Vader.
Batman could sneak up on Vader even if he wasn't distracted, and this would be after long periods of observation and detective work to find out everything he can about the Sith Lord.
I posit in this universe where Batman and Vader could fight, if Batman was in fact Force-sensitive, he would be trained as a Jedi. Batman is not a Jedi, and in Star Wars lore, while having a high Force aptitude would certainly be advantageous, Batman (if Force sensitive) does not have Jedi training. Vader does, from both the Light and Dark side.
I don't bring this up because I think Vader would win. Well, actually I do, but that's besides the point (we're really going with Batarangs for how Batman can beat Vader? Honestly? Vader's armor wouldn't even be dented by the things, people). I simply would say that there is no way that Batman could sneak up on Vader, because Vader has the Force.
If the Force gives Jedi the ability to deflect hundreds of blaster bolts using a blade centimeters thick, Jedi will obviously feel a significant opponent coming his way. Batman would have no ability to make the sneak attack, or be able to observe Vader in any quality.
Same argument applies to the Predator. Vader will always defeat non-Force trained opponents.
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Yeah, well I give Batman enough credit to say he will distract Vader enough for a predator to do what they do. Besides, Vader is asking for it :)
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Every DC comic reader knows that Batman plus any sort of time to prepare = victory. Always.
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Every DC comic reader knows that Batman plus any sort of time to prepare = victory. Always.
Exactly what I was trying to say.
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But has Batman fought an enemy with such heightened precognitive power as Vader (or any Jedi, really)?
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Batman has fought and killed the DC god of darkness. Does that count?
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Not unless such a god of darkness has very defined precognitive abilities.
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-Batman throws a batarang at Vader
-Vader laughs at the feeble attack and chops the batarang in half
-This in turn releases a freezing gas from inside the batarang which freezes Vader solid
-Batman goes home to fight a real villain, like the Joker
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Not unless such a god of darkness has very defined precognitive abilities.
if we're talking about darkseid (which i assume we are) he has telepathy, telekineses, can create psionic avatars, essentially all of superman's powers, the ability to travel through time, space, and dimensions, and the ability to erase beings from existence (has to hit them with a beam attack for that)
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Not unless such a god of darkness has very defined precognitive abilities.
if we're talking about darkseid (which i assume we are) he has telepathy, telekineses, can create psionic avatars, essentially all of superman's powers, the ability to travel through time, space, and dimensions, and the ability to erase beings from existence (has to hit them with a beam attack for that)
Telepathy and telekinesis is not the same as clairvoyance :)
Though, I actually don't know who we are talking about. I still purport that Vader will win.
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Not unless such a god of darkness has very defined precognitive abilities.
if we're talking about darkseid (which i assume we are) he has telepathy, telekineses, can create psionic avatars, essentially all of superman's powers, the ability to travel through time, space, and dimensions, and the ability to erase beings from existence (has to hit them with a beam attack for that)
Telepathy and telekinesis is not the same as clairvoyance :)
Though, I actually don't know who we are talking about. I still purport that Vader will win.
To be fair, isnt the force's clairvoyance more like spider senses? they cant *SEE* the future or remote viewing so much as get a "oh crap, jump to the right!" or a "someone is over there!" feeling?
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Yoda made some relatively detailed prophecies. Pre-Vader Anakin foresaw the death of his wife. Luke saw Vader torturing his friends while still training at Dagobah.
In other words, the Force does appear to grant form of clairvoyance, to view both the present and the future.
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The fact is, however, that Batman doesn't lose. This is partly because he is obsessive-compulsive to the point of preparation. Being unprepared can end with criminals escaping because he didn't anticipate something. The moment Batman learned about the Force, he'd be working on finding ways to combat, contain, or nullify it through technology or other means. Heck, if this is taking place in the Star Wars galaxy, it's possible he could get his hands on a JK-13 "Jedi Killer" droid...
And the Force-Precognition, as far as I know, isn't something they can just turn on and off. There are ways of combating precognition (see: Mistborn and Atium for one example), and I know (although, to be honest, can't think of any examples of) that Batman has fought such adversaries before. At the very least, he would have prepared for such occurrences, which is the entire point.
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Yoda made some relatively detailed prophecies. Pre-Vader Anakin foresaw the death of his wife. Luke saw Vader torturing his friends while still training at Dagobah.
In other words, the Force does appear to grant form of clairvoyance, to view both the present and the future.
I am aware of these instances, but i meant it more in a "combat" situation sort of thing, as in can people see what's going to happen in the middle of the fight before it happens in great enough detail to counter it? As far as i'm aware, it doesn't work like that, otherwise it would be nigh impossible to kill either jedi or sith by any who weren't of said orders, however, this doesn't seem to be the case, as a large number die in the clone wars
Edit: did a quick bit of looking and ran into this from wookieepedia.com -
Generally, when peering deep into the Force, a Force user had the potential to see events that could happen in the future. Force Visions were extremely rare, and uncontrollable. Often, one would meditate to gain a vision, but only a few would actually succeed.
Anakin Skywalker and his descendants—particularly his son Luke and his grandson Jacen Solo—were often prone to Force Visions. Master Yoda felt that visions were of great importance to the Force, and often acted on them as best he could. However, the Jedi warned that the future was always in motion, and that the events were only possible. As such, interpreting a vision by oneself was generally considered dangerous.
Some Jedi and Sith skilled in this technique were capable of detecting when friends and apprentices were in danger, examining details of past events, and predicting the probable outcome of a stated course of action.
Q'Anilia's vision about the Muur Talisman.
The Sith were also very vision-prone, but unlike the Jedi, they believed—either through experience or just because they wanted to believe it—that visions would always come to pass and that they must work to make it so. Some Sith would even input their own ideas of what might come to be into their visions. Darth Sidious was perhaps the most vision-prone Dark Lord of the Sith in history, and used it to ensure his own election as Supreme Chancellor, and his ascension as Galactic Emperor. Emperor Palpatine also consulted on his visions with the Prophets of the Dark Side, a Sith splinter group that was dedicated to studying the future through the dark side of the Force.
Some Sith, such as Darth Traya, could even peer into the future many thousands of years and predict events with great accuracy. This way, she could foretell the death of the last of the Mandalorians at the hands of a Jedi.
Force vision had its limitations. The user—particularly if he or she was a Sith—was incapable of foreseeing their own death. [source?] Palpatine never in his visions of the future saw himself die. Darth Caedus also saw many possibilities of the future, yet none of them involved his death. It is unknown why this limitation occurred.
The visions could be a form of precognition.
and found this on precognition:
The ability of foresight was perhaps universal to the Jedi or Force-sensitives and was manifested in the form of Force Visions of future events, or helped the Jedi predict his opponent's movements. Carnor Jax trained in the art. Plo Koon's former Master, Tyvokka was known to have advanced precognition powers.
I'm not sure how correct these are, but i'm assuming it's at least somewhat trustworthy, being a site dedicated to star wars.
I'm just trying to figure out how the powers work, specifically (never put too much thought into it, and i'm not the hugest SW nerd :P)
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And who said Mr. Batman gets a chance to prepare? Surprise attack = dead Bruce Wayne. The Sith certainly are not above surprise attacks.
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And who said Mr. Batman gets a chance to prepare? Surprise attack = dead Bruce Wayne. The Sith certainly are not above surprise attacks.
As far as I can tell, Shivertongue is talking about batman's general preparedness with backup plans, or stockpiling of gadgets, not like "you have X days to figure out how to defeat darth vader"
Though, honestly, i couldn't see vader staging a covert surprise attack. Like i've said before, vader is cocky, and full of himself, and would likely just expect to walk up to batman and kill him.
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Yes, Vader is cocky, but he set a trap for Han, didn't he? Han had no idea he was going to face a Sith Lord and was summarily defeated. If Batman had been in the same situation, do you really think he would have fared better?
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Yes, Vader is cocky, but he set a trap for Han, didn't he? Han had no idea he was going to face a Sith Lord and was summarily defeated. If Batman had been in the same situation, do you really think he would have fared better?
Yes he would have. Han KNEW Vader was an enemy of his, if not a direct threat to he himself than to people he associated with. If Batman were in Han's place, and knew Vader MIGHT come for him, he would have a half dozen plans within the hour, with as many back-up and contingency plans. Add in that Batman is obsessed with eliminating crime and evil, the mere knowledge that Vader exists would put him on Batman's 'hit list'.
Edit: this is by far the nerdiest discussion I've had in some time, and it is awesome!
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Lets see, it would go like this:
Batman walks in the door. "Holy cow! It's Vader!" Batman pulls out (insert weapon here).
Vader disarms Batman, much as he did Han Solo.
Storm troopers walk in. Point blasters at Batman and Batman's friends.
Batman tries kung fu.
Vader force chokes Batman. Storm troopers open fire. Toasted semi-flying super hero for breakfast.
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The fact is, however, that Batman doesn't lose. This is partly because he is obsessive-compulsive to the point of preparation. Being unprepared can end with criminals escaping because he didn't anticipate something. The moment Batman learned about the Force, he'd be working on finding ways to combat, contain, or nullify it through technology or other means. Heck, if this is taking place in the Star Wars galaxy, it's possible he could get his hands on a JK-13 "Jedi Killer" droid...
Well, if you want to give Batman access to Star Wars technology, then obviously he stands a chance. I'm thinking Jango/Boba Fett-style armor and gear. Those two took out a lot of Jedi with that getup.
However, if you hold the battle in an arena formed at the nexus of two fictional universes, with each having only what he can carry from his own world, then I still just don't see Batman winning. Barring a can of force-repellant and an unblockable sword-blocker, of course. :)
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The fact is, however, that Batman doesn't lose. This is partly because he is obsessive-compulsive to the point of preparation. Being unprepared can end with criminals escaping because he didn't anticipate something. The moment Batman learned about the Force, he'd be working on finding ways to combat, contain, or nullify it through technology or other means. Heck, if this is taking place in the Star Wars galaxy, it's possible he could get his hands on a JK-13 "Jedi Killer" droid...
Well, if you want to give Batman access to Star Wars technology, then obviously he stands a chance. I'm thinking Jango/Boba Fett-style armor and gear. Those two took out a lot of Jedi with that getup.
However, if you hold the battle in an arena formed at the nexus of two fictional universes, with each having only what he can carry from his own world, then I still just don't see Batman winning. Barring a can of force-repellant and an unblockable sword-blocker, of course. :)
Okay, surmising the same, Batman wouldn't need force-repellent or the like. He has faced opponents with abilities similar to Vader's - telekinesis, enhanced physical abilities, expert swordsmanship. Heck, on that last one, Batman can probably match him, as he has trained extensively in numerous forms of armed and unarmed combat. The second isn't so much of an advantage either, because Batman has trained his body to the peak of human ability.
In fact, the moment he notices the machinery that makes up much of Vader's body, he only needs to find a way to interrupt the mechanics/programming/whatever and Vader is incapacitated.
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Lets see, it would go like this:
Batman walks in the door. "Holy cow! It's Vader!" Batman pulls out (insert weapon here).
Vader disarms Batman, much as he did Han Solo.
Storm troopers walk in. Point blasters at Batman and Batman's friends.
Batman tries kung fu.
Vader force chokes Batman. Storm troopers open fire. Toasted semi-flying super hero for breakfast.
well, see, this is how i, and likely shivertongue forsee it happening.
Batman walks in the door. "Holy cow! It's Vader!" Batman pulls out A) Freezing nitrogent impact bomb or B)High powered, Charged electrical batarang (both of these items are items he has and uses, not sure which is better in this situation)
Vader disarms Batman, much as he did Han Solo, pulling the weapon to him (i'm 99% sure that's what happened, right?), causing weapon to go off, stunning/frying/freezing vader, vader now incapacitated.
Storm troopers walk in. Point blasters at Batman and Batman's friends.
Batman tries kung fu, and beats the troopers, because he usually does beat large groups of armed, nameless guards, with regular frequency.
Vader is frozen/Incapacitated. No force choke available.
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Meh. I'm pretty sure the nitrogen wouldn't even touch vader's armor and certainly wouldn't stop him from using the force, and as to the electrical batarang, Vader took some heavy shocks from the emperor and kept on coming (yes, it hurt him, but it didn't stop him).
Force choke. Blasters. Dead Batman.
And I agree with Ryos that with updated technology, Batman would have at least a fighting chance, say 50%-50% odds of winning.
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Meh. I'm pretty sure the nitrogen wouldn't even touch vader's armor and certainly wouldn't stop him from using the force, and as to the electrical batarang, Vader took some heavy shocks from the emperor and kept on coming (yes, it hurt him, but it didn't stop him).
Force choke. Blasters. Dead Batman.
And I agree with Ryos that with updated technology, Batman would have at least a fighting chance, say 50%-50% odds of winning.
Uhhh....vader's armor and life support was irreparably broken by the force lightning, causing his death. And the freezing from his bombs thoroughly froze the clayface thoroughly (as in all the way through), and clayface is very large (much larger than vader). I.E. freezing = flash frozen vader as if he were in some form of cryogenic freeze. I'm reasonably certain this would stop him from using force powers.
Also: in regards to electricity/force lightning, i dont know if we can directly compare the effects of force lightning and true electricity. Force lightning seems to act like electricity in many respects, but different in others. I.E. prolonged exposure can cause a victim to rapidly calcify. Also, isn't force lightning bolts of pure FORCE energy and not ELECTRIC energy?
Point is, if they act different in some regards, we can't just say "he survived force lightning, electricity means nothing to him" because it's comparing apples to oranges. A good, strong, electric shock might damage equipment more or less than an equally powered force lightning, which is unfortunately something we can't quite measure.
Edit: also, on the freezing bombs, they might not be freezing nitrogen, come to think of it. I don't think it's ever really stated what specifically it is, but it's whatever mr. freeze uses to flash freeze stuff. I always just assumed it was like some kind of super nitrogen or something
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True, we can't really make a good comparison on either item. The force electricity is not necessarily electricity. Also, Mr. Clayface (I remember seeing that episode) is made of, well, clay. Clay has water in it, which freezes handily. Vader's suit, a solid, doesn't, and we don't know what it's made of. The fact is, though, solids are generally affected less by cold than liquids are. They become more brittle, but they don't freeze so to speak. So Batman launches a freeze bomb that makes Vader's armor brittle, big deal. Force choke. Blasters. Death. The freeze bomb would have to completely freeze Vader inside his armor to do the damage, and that much cold in an enclosed space would probably do bad things to Batman too, who isn't wearing an environmental suit like Vader is.
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Well, electric batarangs are at least an improvement and might actually damage Vader. Would an electric current travel down a lightsaber blade?
Technologically, even if Batman had enough time to prepare and had access to the Star Wars galaxy, I'm not certain he would have a technological edge. Batman is rich, sure, but Vader has the full force of the Galactic Empire. Batman isn't going to his hands on a Death Star. Pure technological edge would have to go to Vader (ingenuity to use them is another story).
Swordsmanship - Vader wins by virtue of lightsaber. Of course, if Batman has a lightsaber this is a much bigger threat. But still, lightsaber fighting is different from typical swordsplay, and Vader would still have a lifetime of experience at his head. Batman has a very uphill battle here. In the end, I believe Vader's Force-adeptness will save the day. It's not the same as precognition, as Eerongal pointed out, but trusting the Force does allow much greater lightsaber power. As in, they deflect more blaster bolts than you can shake a fist at.
Physicality - Batman wins. He has trained much harder than Anakin ever did. Even if Vader has cybernetic enhancement above the normal man (which is disputable at best), Batman has the upper hand. However, I'm not sure it matters.
Stormtroopers - Yes, Batman can defeat regular guards without much effort. Still, blasters give Stormtroopers the possibility of at least some life. Given a proper troop of Stormtroopers in formation around Vader, hopefully in some place which isn't too enclosed, there's no way Batman would dodge all of them. Furthermore, Batman doesn't use guns, so it is unlikely he would use blasters. He could have a lightsaber, but I doubt his adeptness with it.
Stealth - Batman's greatest strength, besides his own ingenuity, lies in his power of stealth. In any remotely neutral ground, Batman will be able to get the building's floor plan, which is definitely a big boost to Team Batman--note this advantage would obviously be moot in any Empire structure which also carries Vader. Still, Batman has an uphill battle. Vader would mostly feel a Force disturbance with Batman's presence, and thus increase his security. It would be unlikely Batman could get an easy hit on Vader. He could, however, dispatch Vader's Stormtroopers easily. The disadvantage is that he would reveal himself to Imperial troops. Also, the second Batman reveals himself he would need to get out his presumed lightsaber to defend himself. Lightsabers are not immensely stealthy objects.
First Strike - Batman will strike first. As already stated, Vader would already be on Batman's hit list, so Batman would be working out his plans to strike. But Vader has no need to personally hunt Batman down, ever. Vader will wait for a new Death Star and just annihilate any planet Batman was presumed to be on. Destroying innocent planets? Doesn't matter. It will only make Batman want to destroy Vader that much more. And if Batman strikes first, which he undoubtedly will, Vader has home turf advantage.
I suppose that depends on whether Vader knows Batman is in their galaxy, but this isn't an issue. I mean, come on, in Soul Calibur 4, Soul Edge caused a big enough Force disturbance that both Vader and Yoda decided to go to 16th Century Earth. Batman, with his extreme obsession, entering the Star Wars galaxy would create a sufficient disturbance for Force users to feel, especially Dark Side users.
Turf - If Batman escapes Imperial assaults long enough, Vader will have empirical evidence of Batman's skill. There's no point for Vader to take on Batman alone. Vader may as well just wait with the Emperor.
Stormtroopers + Vader + Palpatine will always defeat Batman + lightsaber, no question.
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just a quick post in reply to chaos', and note i haven't read it all thoroughly and even begun to come up with any refutation/counter argument/whatever (however, i actually think it's a really good, well thought out post)
on the subject of storm troopers, i think batman has a very high upper hand here. Batman has plenty of experience working around people who use guns (that is, fighting thugs who have them). As in, modern day guns, where bullets travel VERY fast. The speed at which the blaster shots travel makes their "advanced" technology in this context actually a rather large drawback, just in general, since the bolts move at a speed that the human eye can comprehend.
However, this touches on my hate of a lot of sci-fi guns where the "laser" blast moves so painfully slow that it's ridiculous.
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Oh, I agree. I dislike that whole thing immensely.
Regardless, I'm not putting my money on Stormtroopers...
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Jedi can be outthought and killed. See: here. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPeI4mX8Nus)
The key is proper planning and equipment, which Batman Would acquire. Batman of course, doesn't use guns unless they are specially modified for certain tasks, but he would use specially concocted grenades or mines. see: Nitrogen Batarang. That said, his special equipment and stealth are his only advantages.
Batman's normal methods of planning may or may not be effective, because jedi do have limited precognition. That's why anakin was able to fly podracers. He cannot compete with the lightsaber, or the force powers. Therefore, I award the victory to Vader.
Of course, If Batman survived, the next time they faced eachother Batman would win. Period.
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Jedi can be outthought and killed. See: here.
I really love that droid. He was my favorite character from KOTOR. Almost makes me wish I was carbon based so I could refer to people as "meatbags".
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A lot of this discussion depends on which version of Batman we are talking about. There's really only one version of Vader, there are dozens of versions of Batman. Vader would probably easily defeat the movie version of Batman (Hell he'd probably defeat the latest movie version of Superman).
I'm going with the Justice League or Justice League Unlimited cartoon version of Batman, which I think is pretty close to the comic version of Batman. I don't think that version of Batman would have much trouble with someone like Vader. Here's why:
-He's fought Lightsaber type weapons before. Whenever he has to fight someone with energy weapons like that, or if he's fighting someone that can't be taken down with human level strength, Batman puts on these energy gloves of his that deliver a powerful energy burst when he hits. They are also able to block and parry energy weapons (like a Lightsaber)
-Batman is really just going to dodge or block anything that Vader throws at him. He IS that good. Seriously, if its the Justice League Unlimited version of Batman, he's going to just walk all over Vader. In a contest of martial skills Batman always wins. ALWAYS. He fights people way more powerful than him all of the time, dodging everything they throw at him and taking them out with fancy tech.
Batman is just going to run up to Vader, dodge his lightsaber of block it with bat-gadgets then he's most likely going to stick an explosive to his back and blow the hell out of him, using just enough of a charge to incapacitate him without killing him.
AS for the Stormtroopers, Deathstar and all that other crap Chaos... fine. Vader can have his allies. As long as Batman gets his:
"Batman to Justice League..."
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Batman could win even before Vader choked him. Just use a device that remotely shuts down electronics and Vader is history.
Also for those who say Batman can't kill, we'll just go Dark Knight style batman. He can definitely kill people.
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Batman could win even before Vader choked him. Just use a device that remotely shuts down electronics and Vader is history.
Also for those who say Batman can't kill, we'll just go Dark Knight style batman. He can definitely kill people.
If you are referring to christian bale as batman in the newest movie, you are mistaken. He does not kill.
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Batman could win even before Vader choked him. Just use a device that remotely shuts down electronics and Vader is history.
Also for those who say Batman can't kill, we'll just go Dark Knight style batman. He can definitely kill people.
If you are referring to christian bale as batman in the newest movie, you are mistaken. He does not kill.
He was referring to The Dark Knight Returns, by Frank Miller. That Batman can kill quite easily.
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Batman could win even before Vader choked him. Just use a device that remotely shuts down electronics and Vader is history.
Also for those who say Batman can't kill, we'll just go Dark Knight style batman. He can definitely kill people.
If you are referring to christian bale as batman in the newest movie, you are mistaken. He does not kill.
He was referring to The Dark Knight Returns, by Frank Miller. That Batman can kill quite easily.
Yeah, version dependent on batman as to if he kills or not. its not like superman, who i'm pretty sure every incarnation has had a code against killing.
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Vader from Ep. 4-5 > Batman > Vader from Ep 6 > Pretty much all else > dead Ewoks > Anakin/"Vader" from Ep 1-3
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Sorry for the revival of a near dead topic, but nobody has mentioned something that is important: New Jedi Order.
In the New Jedi Order series, we learn that the Force only exists in the galaxy that Star Wars exists in. So, if the fight takes place anywhere else, Vader will be fighting blind when it comes to the force. No matter where they're fighting, unless Batman has studied and accepted the Force, it will have no effect on him (as mentioned in the KotOR clip). Jedi can detect anything with mass that is native to their galaxy, including (to a limited extent) the air.
Basically, a victory for Vader requires more unlikely scenarios than one for Batman. He only wins if Batman somehow goes native in the Star Wars galaxy. In New Jedi Order, the Y.V. (extra-galaxial (galaxular? galaxative?) invaders) have a huge advantage in fighting because they have "ninja training", and the jedi are so used to using the force for everything that they get destroyed almost universally. Only the jedi who have good fighting skills, fast natural (non-force) reflexes, and learn quickly survive.
Also, if the Batarangs are not made in the Star Wars universe, they can't be affected by the force. Looks a lot like the fight would be a one shot from Batman as he was on his way to fight a real villain. Of course, I didn't read enough of the New Jedi Order to know if dark force powers can affect the Y.V. You can certainly force throw stuff at them, but I doubt that force choke would work. Force lightning's operability is anyone's guess.
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Vader. Totally Vader. Vader has a lightsaber and the Force. Batman has the batarang and a grappling hook. He would put up a fight against Force abilities, but then when Vader let him go he would let his guard to regain his strength, and then Vader would slice him in half. It's not even a fair fight.