Timewaster's Guide Archive
General => Everything Else => Topic started by: Miyabi on January 28, 2010, 01:07:05 PM
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So Apple has recently announced the iPad (http://www.apple.com/ipad/)!
I will be making sure I have enough money to purchase one the day they are up for pre-order. (I also still need to buy a macBook which I have yet to do.) But still. The tech specs on this thing are freaking awesome. It's like . . . the Kind of the internet. A little bit smaller than a piece of paper. About the same thickness as your iPhone. Weighs less than 2 pounds. It's like ultimate internet surfing ability for that lounging around on the internet without having to be tied to a desk or a laptop.
<333333
I really really really want one.
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it's a giant ipod touch with 3G thrown in. No thanks. I'd rather buy a real PC for the price (500, 630 w/ 3G). I'm also not too keen on the monthly fee (if i want internet mobile, i'll just tether my phone to whatever)
in fact, the processor is only marginally better than 3rd gen ipod touches. They have 833 mhz ARM processors, this is apple's new 1 ghz ARM processor. Though ipod touches are underclocked to 600 mhz.
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Im with Eeron. I thought Apple was actually going to release an actual tablet computer, not an oversized iPod.
by years end, the knock off MP3 companies will release their own version. For $100 or less.
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heh, just found this and thought it was funny, so figured I'd share:
(http://i170.photobucket.com/albums/u266/eerongal/ipad.jpg)
Also: Since it's running the iphone OS, that means it won't have flash, extensive HTML5 support (i think it's supposed to be limited support right now, may change in the future), or JAVA (unless you jailbreak it). If you ask me, these are very important to ANY internet enabled device.
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Actually, Webkit has pretty much the best HTML5 support there is. So the iPad is covered there.
Nonetheless it seems a bit underwhelming to me. Perhaps a later iteration will be better.
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Actually, Webkit has pretty much the best HTML5 support there is. So the iPad is covered there.
Nonetheless it seems a bit underwhelming to me. Perhaps a later iteration will be better.
Oh? i was under the impression it was lagging behind, though i dont pay much attention to it.
Honestly, i think the kindle is a much more slick device than the iPad, its small, good at what it does, has free unlimited internet, cheaper, and the screen is specially made not to strain your eyes
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The Apple-designed CPU is the most interesting part of this announcement for me. I can't wait till we get performance/watt numbers on that sucker. The PA Semi guys (the company that Apple bought in order to build that processor) have a great track record, and I'd put money on that processor beating the best figures from other ARM processors of the same class.
The worst aspect of this device is the fact that it uses the iPhone development model. In other words, the device is closed (no tinkering allowed) and all apps need to go through Apple's ridiculous approval process. If Apple ever tries to impose that model on the Mac I swear to Jobs I'll jump ship to Linux or something, painful as that will be for me.
Also, I can't resist this one:
Im with Eeron. I thought Apple was actually going to release an actual tablet computer, not an oversized iPod.
by years end, the knock off MP3 companies will release their own version. For $100 or less.
I'm not sure what you think an iPod is. The iPod Touch was already the closest thing to a computer designed to be a tablet than any other tablet computer on the market. Simply running a desktop OS on a tablet computer doesn't give a very good experience; that interface was designed to be used with keyboard and mouse. By any definition but openness, the iPad is an "actual tablet computer".
And if you think the knock-off companies can buy the same quality hardware for $100 or less, you're kidding yourself. That's completely ignoring the software, which is actually everything. I repeat, software is everything. Your $100 iPad look-alike would be an unusable turd, like every other copy-cat piece of crap those people have put out.
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I guess you are in the business then ryos? You have executives trying sync iPhones and iPods with network related software every day like I do too? Well, then you would have found that, aside from being able to run only applications specifically designed for it, the iPod touch and the iPhone dont really do anything. They are junk. I know dozens of people with them, heck, i even own a touch. It is a nice little mp3 player. But I bought a touch knockoff too. It is faster, better sound quality, runs more apps, has HTML support built in and it was only $50. The touch has slightly better video quality.
all the Jumbo iPod will do that the regular one does not is books. It is going to attract the Kindle market. I am sure it will sell rather well, but then it will fade and a company that puts out a REAL tablet computer will sell millions of them.
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I guess you are in the business then ryos? You have executives trying sync iPhones and iPods with network related software every day like I do too? Well, then you would have found that, aside from being able to run only applications specifically designed for it, the iPod touch and the iPhone dont really do anything. They are junk. I know dozens of people with them, heck, i even own a touch. It is a nice little mp3 player. But I bought a touch knockoff too. It is faster, better sound quality, runs more apps, has HTML support built in and it was only $50. The touch has slightly better video quality.
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. The best I can make out is that because your business had trouble using iPhone OS devices for your specific use case then they must not be "real computers". Doesn't really compute for me.
Also, I'd like a link to this knock-off touch MP3 player. What software does it run? How could it possibly "run more apps" than the iPhone? Granted, "number of apps" is a very poor metric (by all accounts, a large number of iPhone apps are crap), but I don't think you can slight iPhone OS on it however you try to slant it.
all the Jumbo iPod will do that the regular one does not is books. It is going to attract the Kindle market. I am sure it will sell rather well, but then it will fade and a company that puts out a REAL tablet computer will sell millions of them.
Not to be asinine, but the iPhone and iPod Touch have "done books" for quite some time. There's even an Amazon Kindle reader for the iPhone. And since the devices (as you so readily point out) are so very similar, the built-in book support will surely trickle down to the smaller touch devices in short order.
As for your prediction of doom, I simply ask: where is the MP3 player that has displaced the iPod? Companies have had nine years to produce it, so where is it? Where is the mobile OS that dominates the iPhone? You've all had two years to get your acts together. That's how long Apple spent on the original iPhone. Android and WebOS are solid competitors, but the iPhone is still so far ahead in the market that they can't even touch it.
What company is going to release a "real" tablet computer? Microsoft? Google? Palm? They might eventually make a compelling product, but if you think they're going to dwarf the iPad's sales you haven't been paying attention. And what constitutes a "real" tablet computer to you, anyway, if the iPad isn't it? What is it that you want that the iPad can't do?
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If you want to get into sales, discuss marketing not technology. I'm not a computer geek, don't wish to be and a basic PC is all I will ever need. But with I-pod's versus MP3's on a sales chart is based on business not tech. Under the previous assumption apple would sell more computers than HP, Dell, etc. but they don't. I-pods dominate the market for a variety of reasons, the fact that everything is designed for i-pod/ i-phone helps (I work for Brookstone and customers discuss the pro's and cons of i-pods and their accessory market ALL the darn time, and I'm paid to know the products out their).
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Under the previous assumption apple would sell more computers than HP, Dell, etc. but they don't.
If you look at price categories, they do. Apple sells 91% of all computers that cost more than $1000 (http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2009/07/apple-nabs-91-of-premium-computer-market-in-june.ars).
Apple doesn't really compete with HP and Dell. If you want a cheap computer, you can't buy it from Apple. If you want an expensive computer, on the other hand, 9 out of 10 people go to Apple for that.
(Why would anyone want an expensive computer? Apples are for people for which "good enough" isn't good enough. That's not meant to be elitist or snobby, it's a simple statement of fact. I spend all day in front of my computer, so it's worth it to me to pay the Apple tax to get a computer that I can love, instead of one that merely works.)
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This blog post (http://flyosity.com/ipad/the-ipad-is-for-everyone-but-us.php) sums up my feelings about the iPad beautifully.
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I do agree that the fact that they close the source is lame, but how is that different from most other products?
The thing is Apple is the only group that has something like this in the market and it will be a while before anyone else puts anything out. By that point Apple will know what works and what doesn't work and will have already fixed a lot of their problems and be way ahead of anyone else.
Also it's not meant to be a "computer." It's meant to be able to surf the internet quickly in a comfortable format as well as play with apps.
The iPad will have the same advantage the Kindle does. It was built amazingly and when copy-cats started coming out they didn't have the experience so they were behind and will always be left behind.
And like Ryos said. People who want a computer that will truly perform well over the top, they buy a Mac. I've known at least 5 or 6 people who were total WoW-heads that bought top end Macs so they could run WoW faster and better.
Plus it's not the exact same OS that the iPhone/iTouch run, it's based on the same concept, but it is different. It's optimized for the larger screen and the better hardware. I'm really excited to get one. Also, $500 seem extremely cheap. Especially for Apple. I mean, my 3G was $400, and it can't do as much as the iPad will do. I think Apple cutting down their prices like that is going to be a really good thing for them.
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I do agree that the fact that they close the source is lame, but how is that different from most other products?
Most other companies allow open development, which I think is where that previous point was going. (which isnt the same as open source)
that is, you don't need (insert owning company)'s go ahead to make and sell your program.
Also it's not meant to be a "computer." It's meant to be able to surf the internet quickly in a comfortable format as well as play with apps.
Well, since tablet is short for tablet PC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tablet_PC), i quite expect it to be something meant to be a "computer", and that is exactly what i want from a tablet (note: i dont actually *WANT* a tablet)
And like Ryos said. People who want a computer that will truly perform well over the top, they buy a Mac. I've known at least 5 or 6 people who were total WoW-heads that bought top end Macs so they could run WoW faster and better.
Generally, if you pay attention to benchmark tests and such, mac v. PC is relatively close with mac having a slight lead in performance, it's never been as crushing a defeat as some people make it out to be (and usually not noticeable enough to your everyday consumer). And of course you can always find highly skewed views in favor of each side, but most reputable sources i've seen usually break close enough to even that it isn't a huge deal (however, this isnt what the topic is about, so i dont wanna derail it. If you wanna discuss this, go elsewhere, make another topic, or whatever)
Plus it's not the exact same OS that the iPhone/iTouch run, it's based on the same concept, but it is different. It's optimized for the larger screen and the better hardware.
You're right, it's not the exact[/b] same OS, it's Iphone OS 3.2 (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/10/01/27/iphone_os_3_2_is_ipad_only_potential_camera_support_a4_processor.html), the iphone is at 3.1, and apparently 3.2 is going to be only for the Ipad right now. Assumedly, it'll get pushed to phones/pods eventually.
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I don't remember mentioning a price range of over $1000.00, and I do believe i said apple makes a better machine than most of the competitors, and i have no use for the extras. What I was trying to get across is the fact that the i-pod does so well isn't that it is superior (my zen vision m came out at the same time as the original I-pod video was more than $50.00 cheaper and had pretty much the same specs in every regard) but the marketing. People (general statement on mob mentality not meant to say people here follow this train of thought) rarely buy things because they are better, but rather do to marketing. If it was based on quality no one would buy a sleep number which cost the same as a tempurpedic they'd buy the tempurpedic.
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all I do every single day is fix computers. Macs and PCs and syncing the damn Blackberries and such. And I have to say, I have NOTHING but problems with the Macs. I support over 1000 Macs and 6000 PCs and I do 1 for 1 on service calls. The 1 and only thing the Macs do better than a PC is 3D. And even then, if you optimize a PC for CAD, you can achieve nearly the same results. If I had my way, i would take each and every Mac in the company and set it on fire in the parking lot.
I find the "91%" figure to be a little, well, snooty. since for what you spend on the cheapest Mac (about $1500) I can buy 2 PCs which perform twice as good. My Dell Inspiron I bout 2 years ago is as good, maybe even better, than the cheapest Mac on the market right now, and I only paid $500 for it. My Dell Optiplex at work is about 6 months old and is better than any Mac we have on the floor. I run the full CS4 suite and never have a problem, yet my Macs blow up with it regularly.
The iPad is just another example of Steve Jobs and his brilliant marketting. Yes, i said it, the guy is a marketting genius, if nothing else, he sold millions of $20 MP3 players to millions of people for $150 a pop. Genius.
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My anecdotal experience is exactly opposite yours. In cases like that, we can agree to disagree.
Also, snooty? For that to be true, I'd have to look down on PC buyers, but I don't. Sometimes, I envy you. I once tried to join you, because cheap hardware is tempting, but I couldn't do it. Oh, to honestly believe that any $20 music player is the equal of any iPod! But no, I was cursed to care about details. "Good enough" isn't good enough for me. Like I said before, there's nothing in that statement that suggests that this makes me better than other people. You may as well say "he has blue eyes, he's a snob," when in reality it's just an ordinary part of who I am.
(Your figure for the "cheapest Mac" is $900 high, by the way. And, I'm still waiting for a link to that $50 iPod Touch knockoff.)
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I didnt pay this much:
http://www.walmart.com/ip/Ematic-8GB-Touch-Screen-Video-MP3-Player-with-5MP-Camera/13070375
I didnt say YOU were snooty, just the figure comes off that way, because mostly it is true.
Link to sub $1000 Mac? And not an "iMac" either, because thats not a real computer. It is nothing more than the mac attempt at an eMachine.
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What is your definition of a real computer, mtlhddoc2?
I look at my 24" 1920x1200 screen with 42% free space on the hard drive, lots of RAM, more than fast enough processor, and wonder what I've been using this past year if not a real computer.
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I watch all you people rhapsodizing over the specs of all these new gadgets and think there must be something wrong with me, 'cuz I just don't really get why I should care. :P
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I'm with you Silk, I remarked earlier b/c the argument of the best selling bugged me, marketing is everything and i-pod accessories are readily available while others are lacking. It's much more complex than this is better than that.
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What is your definition of a real computer, mtlhddoc2?
I look at my 24" 1920x1200 screen with 42% free space on the hard drive, lots of RAM, more than fast enough processor, and wonder what I've been using this past year if not a real computer.
Got me wondering the same thing now. Apparently, I haven't used a "real computer" since 1999...
mtlhddoc2: The MacBook, only $999 (http://www.apple.com/macbook/). There is also the Mac Mini (http://www.apple.com/macmini/) for $599, but I wasn't sure if that counted.
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Mac Mini doesnt count, no. Can you network it? not really. Same with an iMac, not easily networked. Just ask my 100 pissed off videographers when some genius thought they should all get brand new iMacs. And they call me at least once a week because it dropped the network again and i have to reinstall Tiger. And they cant run Leopard, or SnowLeopard. We tried, and failed. so they lobbied for PCs when their upgrade time comes around, and they are going to be getting Lenovo ThinkPads, possibly, Dell Latitude E6400s. With docking stations of course.
If you just need a computer that surfs the web and plays an occassional game, have at it, spend too much for a Mac, or an AlienWare Laptop. more power to ya. But no one should pay over $1000 for a computer for ANY reason at this stage of the game. I paid exactly $548 for my Dell Inspiron 530 21 months ago. It came with a 1TB had drive, 3GB SD-Ram, 1800 DuoCore Processor, 256MB nVidia card, a 21" monitor, Office 2007 Pro, NetGear N Router and some crappy speakers, which I have upgraded. And I am thinking about getting new, but dont really need to. But if i did, it would be a Gateway with a QuadCore 2k processor, 1TB again, upgraded vide card again, all for $400! Why, why why would you pay $1000 because "good enough" isnt "good enough" when in fact "good enough" is BETTER than your $1500 computer?
http://www.apple.com/macmini/specs.html
Look at teh Specs! My Gateway NETBOOK has better ram, processor and memory than that!
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The Mac Mini for $600 is the cheapest Mac. For most people, it's more than they need.
I had a look at that Ematic MP3 player. The short version is that it looks like it's absolutely worth the asking price (but no more). I feel the same way about the iPod Touch. That's all the assessment I'm qualified to give since I've never owned either; actually, given a choice I'd buy the iPod Classic (which is what I use every day). The Touch still doesn't have enough storage capacity for my needs. Once they get there, I'll upgrade in a heartbeat...
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ryos: I have about 10 different MP3 players, including an ipod classic and a touch, how much music do you have that 8GB isnt not enough? Much less the 32 for the highest end model? I can fit nearly every song I own on an 8GB memory stick or SD card (iPods do not support SD cards, a very very big negative on them, and neither does the iPad, even the Nintendo DS supports microSD and the Wii has an SD slot!)
quite frankly, the best music player of the bunch is this crappy little on I got at K-Mart for $15. I never have a problem with it. The iPod had the power problem that is so frequent with them (about 1 in 5 have it).
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Mac Mini doesnt count, no. Can you network it? not really. Same with an iMac, not easily networked. Just ask my 100 pissed off videographers when some genius thought they should all get brand new iMacs. And they call me at least once a week because it dropped the network again and i have to reinstall Tiger. And they cant run Leopard, or SnowLeopard. We tried, and failed. so they lobbied for PCs when their upgrade time comes around, and they are going to be getting Lenovo ThinkPads, possibly, Dell Latitude E6400s. With docking stations of course.
::)
Every Mac Apple ships is equally networkable. Right now I'm sitting at work in a lab full of 86 happily-netowrked iMacs. With Apple Remote Desktop, I can do anything to any Mac on the entire campus-wide network to which I've been given rights. With my MacBook Pro, I can VPN in to the network and do the same from over the Internet. We can remote-boot those machines with an image stored on any Mac on the network. We can hook in to the university's LDAP service to provide logins to our students, with no additional software beyond the base OS.
I can state with 100% confidence that there is nothing network-related that Macs can't do. Your claim is ridiculous.
Why, why why would you pay $1000 because "good enough" isnt "good enough" when in fact "good enough" is BETTER than your $1500 computer?
http://www.apple.com/macmini/specs.html
Look at teh Specs! My Gateway NETBOOK has better ram, processor and memory than that!
If hardware specs are all you care about, then I agree with you: why WOULDN'T you buy the cheapest PC you could find? But, honestly, I just really don't care that much about hardware specs anymore. Far more important to me is that my software work elegantly. I'd also like my laptops to last me 4 years, which is something PCs seem to have a hard time doing; what I've seen from PC laptops owned by family members, roommates, and friends is that they start to fall apart after 2.5-3 years.
The hardware is fast enough. My 2-year-old Macbook Pro is still plenty fast for everything I do with it. I've upped the RAM to 4GB and the HDD to 500, but that's a typical mid-life upgrade. I develop software and websites, often at the same time. I run multiple virtual machines simultaneously. I run office programs, email, RSS, web browsers, Adobe Creative Suite apps. I can even boot into Windows and play games. My machine never feels slow and never bogs down. Why should I care if PC hardware is higher-specced and costs less, when I'm far happier with my Mac than I ever would be using Windows?
ryos: I have about 10 different MP3 players, including an ipod classic and a touch, how much music do you have that 8GB isnt not enough? Much less the 32 for the highest end model? I can fit nearly every song I own on an 8GB memory stick or SD card (iPods do not support SD cards, a very very big negative on them, and neither does the iPad, even the Nintendo DS supports microSD and the Wii has an SD slot!)
8737 songs, 3023 photos, 138 videos, 158 podcasts and 4 games. That all occupies 63 GB of space. When I run out space on my 80 GB iPod (11 GB to go), I'll delete the photos, since I don't really use them anyway.
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mtlhddoc2 I begin to suspect the reason macs suck in your office is because the guy they hired to support them is you.
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LOLOLOL!
If Karma wasn't restricted to just Admins I would be giving you some right now Peter. That truly made my day. =]
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mtlhddoc2 I begin to suspect the reason macs suck in your office is because the guy they hired to support them is you.
Thats funny, except I am not the only one supporting them, I am the first line of defense on the Macs only. I dont install them, just support them when necessary. we have a guy who spent 5 years at Apple installing and supporting them as well. You really think I would be support 7000+ machines on my own? Thats ridiculous. I spent 3 years in the 90s at Microsoft supporting Apple/Windows interoperability. They didnt mix then, and they dont mix now. and apple doesnt make servers, so Unix and Windows servers are what we have to work with. Macs dont like them. Ever. and that is on purpose.
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Thats funny, except I am not the only one supporting them, I am the first line of defense on the Macs only. I dont install them, just support them when necessary. we have a guy who spent 5 years at Apple installing and supporting them as well. You really think I would be support 7000+ machines on my own? Thats ridiculous. I spent 3 years in the 90s at Microsoft supporting Apple/Windows interoperability. They didnt mix then, and they dont mix now. and apple doesnt make servers, so Unix and Windows servers are what we have to work with. Macs dont like them. Ever. and that is on purpose.
Um... mtlhddoc2? Apple makes servers. OS X is a Unix-based system. You can run Windows on a Mac.
...how did you get your job?
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Ugh. People with a little knowledge....
http://www.apple.com/server/
this is not a server. As much as they spin it.
windows can run on a Mac, sure. windows was made to run anywhere. But try connecting a Unix server to a Mac, or, god forbid, a Windows server to a Mac. Have fun kids.
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The company I worked for ran Apple XServes, running Mac OS X Server, and the Windows PCs in the office never had problems connecting to them in the 4 years I was there. And I worked on a Windows 2000 or XP machine connecting to those servers every day.
It's clear you've had a bad experience with Macs for a long time, but a lot of people and a lot of companies make it work. Many of your statements sound prejudiced and downright ignorant. I think you've lost credibility with many people in this thread.
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Yeah, mtlhddoc2, I'm getting tired of you making inaccurate claims as though they were fact, then, when called on it, redefining the world to fit your claims. I think I'm through here.
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Definition:
Server - a computer that makes services, as access to data files, programs, and peripheral devices, available to workstations on a network.
Computer - Also called processor. an electronic device designed to accept data, perform prescribed mathematical and logical operations at high speed, and display the results of these operations.
So technically anything that processes data electronically that connects to other things is a server. . . . Whether you like it or not.
Also I have used things many times that go between Mac and Windows that work more than fine.
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Finally back. Super Bowl was pretty awesome, even if I did have to work in the belly of the stadium during it. Really sucked working it though, since it is a TV production, there was a lot of MAC crap that kept breaking down. But the two weeks off after the fact were really nice.
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I think I have figured out when mtlhddoc2 is happy.... the surest sign is that he is complaining about apple products.
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oh no, not even close. I am happiest when they work, because that means I dont have to fix them.
But you know what works really really well. the I-Pod touch. Never had a problem with mine. The zune sucks though. I always give credit where credit is due. If this was 1992, I would be praising Apple up and down and disparging IBM. As a matter of fact, I was very upset with my company at the time when they removed the old apples and Commodores and installed IBMs - took me months of programming to get them right. But slowly and surely, apple dropped itself into a pit of self-riteous indignation and they now make computer which may suit a complete moron just fine, but anyone that has any really working knowledge hates.
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I hate that everyone compares Windows to Apple. Apple is a computer company, meaning it controls the hardware. Windows is an operating system. It has to deal with 1000's (or more) of different hardware configurations.
My experiences with Leopard and Snow Leopard (The two latest Apple OS's) are worse than my experiences with Windows.
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If the Ipad ran OS-X it would be worth the hype. If it ran Windows 7 it would be equally cool. The hardware is nice, but face it, Ipod OS is intended for smartphones. It just isn't realistic for the Ipad niche. EEE's new offering with Windows 7 or Ubuntu 4 is a better more cost effiective option in the same niche.
If PC-BSD didn't have to fight gnu just to get apps made available it would be a great option without the big corporate heavy trying to force you into a distributed computing model that loses you control over your data, apps and privacy.
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speaking of smart phones and Linux. Have you seen the ELSE?
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No. Where cell phones are concerned, I'm abstaining because of GPS chips and texting. One is just too much power for big brother and the other is just too much power for overly needy friends. :P But what I meant was that the new Eee PC is a convertible netbook/tablet with the same screen realestate as an IPAD with a 60GB drive and Win7 or Ubuntu and a 5-8 hour battery life depending on usage. The screen and the mouse pad both support gestures.
It's only about twice as thick as the Ipad and only about 2lbs. It's more powerful, more economical and still gives you the ability to use it for EBooks.