Timewaster's Guide Archive
Local Authors => Brandon Sanderson => Topic started by: Miyabi on December 14, 2009, 06:23:31 AM
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Per suggestion of Mr. J (http://www.timewastersguide.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=1841) in Natalie Perkins' (http://www.timewastersguide.com/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=843) thread Hoid?? (http://www.timewastersguide.com/forum/index.php?topic=5475.0) I have brought all references of Hoid and his antics and put them in one big post for you all.
This post (And the next three. [I happened to reach the post limit of 20k characters. . . . . .]) will be used to update all Hoid references as they are drawn to our attention. The fifth post in this thread will be used to put generally supported theories or unconfirmed mentions of Hoid.
.::Liar of Partinel::.
Want to download an early version of the first six chapters? Do it here. (http://www.brandonsanderson.com/drafts/warbreaker/LiarPt12.doc)
Or what about a revision of chapter one? Find it here. (http://www.brandonsanderson.com/drafts/warbreaker/LiarCh1v3.doc)
.::Elantris::.
"MAKE certain you deliver these tonight." Sarene said, pulling the lid closed
on the final box of supplies.
The beggar nodded, casting an apprehensive glance toward the wall of Elantris, which stood only a few feet away. "You needn't be so afraid, Hoid." Sarene said. "You have a new king now.
Things are going to change in Arelon."
Hoid shrugged. Despite Telrii's death. the beggar refused to meet with Sarene
during the day. Hoid's people had spent ten years fearing Iadon and his farms;
they weren't used to acting without the enveloping presence of night, no
matter how legal their intentions. Sarene would have used someone else to make
the delivery, but Hoid and his men already knew how and where to deposit the
boxes. Besides, she would rather the populace of Arelon not discover what was
in this particular shipment.
"These boxes are more heavy than the ones before. my lady," Hoid noted
astutely. There was a reason he had managed to survive a decade on the streets
of Kae without being caught.
"What the boxes contain is none of your business," Sarene replied, handing him a pouch of coins.
Hoid nodded, his face hidden in the darkness of his hood. Sarene had never
seen his face. but she assumed from his voice that he was an older man.
.::Final Empire::.
Hoid calmly put away the pipe, then climbed to his feet— though that didn’t make him much taller. The scrawny bald man bowed deeply in the misty night. “Greetings, my lord.”
Kelsier paused in front of the man, arms tucked carefully inside his mistcloak. It wouldn’t do for a street informant to realize that the unidentified “nobleman” he was meeting with had the scars of Hathsin on his arms.
“You come highly recommended,” Kelsier said, mimicking the haughty accent of a nobleman.
“I am one of the best, my lord.” Anyone who can survive as long as you have must be good, Kelsier thought. Lords didn’t like the idea of other men knowing their secrets. Informants generally didn’t live very long.
“I need to know something, informant,” Kelsier said. “But first you must vow never to speak of this meeting to anyone.”
“Of course, my lord,” Hoid said. He’d likely break the promise before the night was out—another reason informants didn’t tend to live very long. “There is, however, the matter of payment....”
“You’ll have your money, skaa,” Kelsier snapped.
“Of course, my lord,” Hoid said with a quick bob of the head. “You requested information regarding House Renoux, I believe....”
“Yes. What is known about it? Which houses is it aligned with? I must know these things.”
“There isn’t really much to know, my lord,” Hoid said. “Lord Renoux is very new to the area, and he is a careful man. He’s making neither allies nor enemies at the moment—he’s buying a large number of weapons and armor, but is probably just purchasing from a wide variety of houses and merchants, thereby ingratiating himself to them all. A wise tactic. He will, perhaps, have an excess of merchandise, but he will also have an excess of friends, yes?”
Kelsier snorted. “I don’t see why I should pay you for that.”
“He’ll have too much merchandise, my lord,” Hoid said quickly. “You could make a clever profit, knowing that Renoux is shipping at a loss.”
“I’m no merchant, skaa,” Kelsier said. “I don’t care about profits and shipping!” Let him chew on that. Now he thinks I’m of a Great House—of course, if he hadn’t suspected that because of the mistcloak, then he doesn’t deserve his reputation.
“Of course, my lord,” Hoid said quickly. “There is more, of course....” Ah, and here we see it. Does the street know that House Renoux is connected to the rumblings of rebellion? If anyone had discovered that secret, then Kelsier’s crew was in serious jeopardy. Hoid coughed quietly, holding out his hand.
“Insufferable man!” Kelsier snapped, tossing a pouch at Hoid’s feet.
“Yes, my lord,” Hoid said, falling to his knees and searching about with his hand. “I apologize, my lord. My eyesight is weak, you know. I can barely see my own fingers held in front of my face.”
Clever, Kelsier thought as Hoid found the pouch and tucked it away. The comment about eyesight was, of course, a lie—no man would get far in the underground with such an impediment. However, a nobleman who thought his informant to be half blind would be far less paranoid about being identified. Not that Kelsier himself was worried—he wore one of Dockson’s best disguises. Beside the beard, he had a fake, but realistic, nose, along with platforms in the shoes and makeup to lighten his skin.
“You said there was more?” Kelsier said. “I swear, skaa, if it isn’t good...”
“It is,” Hoid said quickly. “Lord Renoux is considering a union between his niece, the Lady Valette, and Lord Elend Venture.”
Kelsier paused. Wasn’t expecting that... “That’s silly. Venture is far above Renoux.”
“The two youths were seen speaking—at length—at the Venture ball a month ago.”
Kelsier laughed derisively. “Everyone knows about that. It meant nothing.”
“Did it?” Hoid asked. “Does everyone know that Lord Elend Venture spoke very highly of the girl to his friends, the group of nobleling philosophers that lounge at the Broken Quill?”
“Young men speak of girls,” Kelsier said. “It means nothing. You will be returning those coins.”
“Wait!” Hoid said, sounding apprehensive for the first time. “There is more. Lord Renoux and Lord Venture have had secret dealings.”
What?
“It is true,” Hoid continued. “This is fresh news—I heard it barely an hour ago myself. There is a connection between Renoux and Venture. And, for some reason, Lord Renoux was able to demand that Elend Venture be assigned to watch over Lady Valette at balls.” He lowered his voice. “It is even whispered that Lord Renoux has some kind of...leverage over House Venture.”
What happened at that ball tonight? Kelsier thought. Out loud, however, he said, “This all sounds very weak, skaa. You have nothing more than idle speculations?”
“Not about House Renoux, my lord,” Hoid said. “I tried, but your worry over this house is meaningless! You should pick a house more central to politics. Like, say, House Elariel . . .”
Kelsier frowned. By mentioning Elariel, Hoid was implying that he had some important tidbit that would be worth Kelsier’s payment. It seemed that House Renoux’s secrets were safe. It was time to move the discussion along to other houses, so that Hoid wouldn’t get suspicious of Kelsier’s interest in Renoux. “Very well,” Kelsier said. “But if this isn’t worth my time...”
“It is, my lord. Lady Shan Elariel is a Soother.”
“Proof?”
“I felt her touch on my emotions, my lord,” Hoid said. “During a fire at Keep Elariel a week ago, she was there calming the emotions of the servants.”
Kelsier had started that fire. Unfortunately, it hadn’t spread beyond the guardhouses. “What else?”
“House Elariel has recently given her leave to use her powers more at court functions,” Hoid said. “They fear a house war, and wish her to make whatever allegiances possible. She always carries a thin envelope of shaved brass in her right glove. Get a Seeker close to her at a ball, and you shall see. My lord, I do not lie! My life as an informant depends solely upon my reputation. Shan Elariel is a Soother.” Kelsier paused, as if musing. The information was useless to him, but his true purpose—finding out about House Renoux—had already been fulfilled. Hoid had earned his coins, whether he realized it or not.
Kelsier smiled. Now to sow a little more chaos. “What of Shan’s covert relationship with Salmen Tekiel?” Kelsier said, picking the name of a likely young nobleman. “Do you think that she used her powers to gain his favor?”
“Oh, most certainly, my lord,” Hoid said quickly. Kelsier could see the glimmer of excitement in his eyes; he assumed that Kelsier had given him a luscious bit of political gossip free of charge.
“Perhaps she was the one who secured Elariel the deal with House Hasting last week,” Kelsier said musingly. There had been no such deal.
“Most likely, my lord.”
.::Well of Ascensioin::.
The elderly steward nodded, his head shaking. He didn't seem particularly frail--actually, he had that same air of controlled dignity that most stewards exhibited--but his body had a slow, chronic tremble.
.::Hero of Ages::.
No pulses came from behind. Soon, she moved on, pulling out Cett's instructions, searching out a second informant. She trusted Slowswift's words well enough, but she would like confirmation. She picked an informant on the other side of the spectrum—a beggar named Hoid whom Cett claimed could be found in a particular square late at night.
A few quick jumps brought her to the location. She landed atop a roof and looked down, scanning the area. The ash had been allowed to drift here, piling in corners, making a general mess of things. A group of lumps huddled in an alley beside the square. Beggars, without home or job. Vin had lived like that at times, sleeping in alleys, coughing up ash, hoping it wouldn't rain. She soon located a figure that wasn't sleeping like the others, but sitting quietly in the light ashfall. Her ears picked out a faint sound. The man was humming to himself, as the instructions said that he might be doing.
Vin hesitated.
She couldn't decide what it was, but something bothered her about the situation. It wasn't right. She didn't stop to think, she simply turned and jumped away. That was one of the big differences between her and Elend—she didn't always need a reason. A feeling was enough. He always wanted to tease things out and find a why, and she loved him for his logic. However, he would have been very frustrated about her decision to turn away from the square as she had.
-
.::Warbreaker::.
“This is Hoid,” Lightsong said. “Master storyteller. I believe you had some questions you wished to ask. . . .”
Siri laughed in relief, remembering only now her request to Lightsong. She glanced at the priests below. “Um, shouldn’t we be paying attention to the speeches?”
Lightsong waved indifferently. “Pay attention? Ridiculous! That would be far too responsible of us. We’re gods, for the Colors’ sake. Or, well, I am. You’re close enough. A god-in-law, one might say. Anyway, do you really want to listen to a bunch of stuffy priests talk about sewage treatment?”
Siri grimaced.
“I thought not. Besides, neither of us have votes pertaining to this issue. So let us spend our time wisely. We never know when we will run out!”
“Of time?” Siri asked. “But you’re immortal!”
“Not run out of time,” Lightsong said, holding up his plate. “Of grapes. I hate listening to storytellers without grapes.”
Siri rolled her eyes, but continued to eat the grape slices. The storyteller waited patiently. As she looked more closely, she could tell that he wasn’t quite as old as he seemed at first glance. The beard must be a badge of his profession, and while it didn’t appear to be fake, she suspected that it had been bleached. He was much really younger than he wanted to appear.
Still, she doubted Lightsong would have settled for anyone other than the very best. She settled back in her chair--which, she noticed, had been crafted for someone of her size. I should be careful with my questions, she thought. I can’t ask directly about the deaths of the old God Kings; that would be too obvious.
“Storyteller,” she said. “What do you know of Hallandren history?”
“Much, my queen,” he said, bowing his head.
“Tell me of the days before the division between Idris and Hallandren.”
“Ah,” the man said, reaching into a pocket. He pulled out a handful of sand and began to rub it between his fingers, letting it drop in a soft stream toward the ground, its grains blown slightly in the wind. “Her majesty wishes one of the deep stories, from long before. A story before time began?”
“I wish to know the origins of the Hallandren God Kings.”
“Then we begin in the distant haze,” the storyteller said, bringing up another hand, letting powdery black sand drop from it, mixing with the sand that fell from the first hand. As Siri watched, the black sand turned white, and she cocked her head, smiling at the display.
“The first God King of Hallandren is ancient,” Hoid said. “Ancient, yes. Older than kingdoms and cities, older than monarchs and religions. Not older than the mountains, for they were already here. Like the knuckles of the sleeping giants below, they formed this valley, where panthers and flowers both make their home.
“We speak of just ‘The valley’ then, a place before it had a name. The people of Chedesh still dominated the world. They sailed the inner sea, coming from the east, and it was they who first discovered this strange land. Their writings are sparse, their empire long since been taken by the dust, but memory remains. Perhaps you can imagine their surprise upon arriving here? A place with beaches of fine, soft sand, with fruits aplenty, and with strange, alien forests?”
Hoid reached into his robes and pulled out a handful of something else. He began to drop it before him--small green leaves from the fronds of a fern.
“Paradise, they called it,” Hoid whispered. “A paradise hidden between the mountains, a land with pleasant rains that never grew cold, a land where succulent food grew spontaneously.” He threw the handful of leaves into the air, and in the center of them puffed a burst of colorful dust, like a tiny flameless firework. Deep reds and blues mixed in the air, blowing around him.
“A land of color,” he said. “Because of the Tears of Edgli, the striking flowers of such brilliance that could yield dyes that would hold fast in any cloth.”
Siri had never really though about how Hallandren would look to people who came across the Inner Sea. She’d heard stories from the ramblemen who came into Idris, and they spoke of distant places. In other lands, one found parries and steppes, mountains and deserts. But not jungles. Hallandren was unique.
“The First Returned was born during this time,” Hoid said, sprinkling a handful of silver glitter into the air before him. “Aboard a ship that was sailing the coast. Returned can now be found in all parts of the world, but the first one--the man whom you call Vo, but we name only by his title--was born here, in the waters of this very bay. He declared the Five Visions. He died a week later.
“The men of his ship founded a kingdom upon these beaches, then called Hanald. Before their arrival, all that had existed in these jungles was the people of Pahn Kahl, more a mere collection of fishing villages than a true kingdom.”
The glitter ran out, and Hoid began to drop a powdery brown dirt from his other hand as he reached into another pocket. “Now, you may wonder why I must travel back so far. Should I not speak of the Manywar, of the shattering of kingdoms, of the Five Scholars, of Kalad the Usurper and his phantom army which some say still hides in these jungles, waiting?
“Those are the events we focus upon, the ones men know the best. To speak only of them, however, is to ignore the history of three hundred years that led up to them. Would there have been a Manywar without knowledge of the Returned? It was a Returned, after all, who predicted the war and prompted Strifelover to attack the kingdoms across the mountains.”
“Strifelover?” Siri interrupted.
“Yes, your majesty,” Hoid said, switching to a black dust. “Strifelover. Another name for Kalad the Usurper.”
“That sounds like the name of a Returned.”
Hoid nodded. “Indeed,” he said. “Kalad was Returned, as was Peacegiver, the man who overthrew him and founded Hallandren. We haven’t arrived at that part yet. We are still back in Hanald, the outpost-become-kingdom founded by the men of the First Returned’s crew. They were the ones who chose the First Returned’s wife as their queen, then used the Tears of Edgli to create fantastic dyes which sold for untold riches across the world. This soon became a bustling center of trade.”
He removed a handful of flower petals and began to let them fall before him. “The Tears of Edgli. The source of Hallandren wealth. Such small things, so easy to grow here. And yet, this is the only soil where they will live. In other parts of the world, dyes are very difficult to produce. Expensive. Some scholars say that the Manywar was fought over these flower petals, that the kingdoms of Kuth and Huth were destroyed by little drips of color.”
The petals fell to the floor.
“But only some of the scholars say that, storyteller?” Lightsong said. Siri turned, having almost forgotten that he was with her. “What do the rest say? Why was the Manywar fought in their opinions?”
The storyteller fell silent for a moment. And then he pulled out two handfuls and began to release dust of a half-dozen different colors. “Breath, your grace. Most agree that the Manywar was not only about petals squeezed dry, but a much greater prize. People squeezed dry.
“You know, perhaps, that the royal family was growing increasingly interested in the process by which Breath could be used to bring objects to life. Awakening, it was then first being called. It was a fresh and poorly-understood art, then. It still is, in many ways. The workings of the souls of men--their power to animate ordinary objects and the dead to life--is something discovered barely four centuries ago. A short time, by the accounting of gods.”
“Unlike a court proceeding,” Lightsong mumbled, glancing over at the priests who were still talking about sanitation. “Those seem to last an eternity, according to the accounting of this god.”
The storyteller didn’t break stride at the interruption. “Breath,” he said. “The years leading up to the Manywar, those were the days of the Five Scholars and the discovery of new Commands. To some, this was a time of great enlightenment and learning. Others call them the darkest days of men, for it was then we learned to best exploit one another.”
He began to drop two handfuls of dust, one bright yellow, the other black. Siri watched, amused. He seemed to be slanting what he said toward her, careful not to offend her Idris sensibilities. What did she really know of Breath? She’d rarely even seen any Awakeners in the Court. Even when she did, she didn’t really care. The monks had spoken against such things, but, well, she had paid about as much attention to them as she had her tutors.
“One of the Five Scholars made a discovery,” Hoid continued, dropping a handful of white scraps, small torn pieces of paper with writing on them. “Commands. Methods. The means by which a Lifeless could be created from a single breath.
“This, perhaps, seems a small thing to you. But you must look at the past of this kingdom and its founding. Hallandren began with the servants of a Returned and was developed by an expansive mercantile effort. It controlled a uniquely lucrative region which, through the discovery and maintenance of the northern passes--combined with increasingly skillful navigation--was becoming a jewel coveted by the rest of the world.”
He paused and his second hand came up, dropping little bits of metal which fell to the stonework with a sound not like falling rain. “And so the war came,” he said. “The Five Scholars split, joining different sides. Some kingdoms gained the use of Lifeless while others did not. Some kingdoms had weapons others could only envy.
“To answer the god’s question, my story claims one other reason for the Manywar: the ability to create Lifeless so cheaply. Before the discovery of the single-breath command, Lifeless took fifty Breaths to make. Extra soldiers--even a Lifeless one--are of limited use if you can gain only one for every fifty men you already have. However, being able to create a Lifeless with a single Breath. . .one for one. . .that will double your troops. And half of them won’t need to eat.”
The metal stopped falling.
“Lifeless are no stronger than living men,” Hoid said. “They are the same. They are not more skilled than living men. They are the same. However, not having to eat like regular men? That advantage was enormous. Mix that with their ability to ignore pain and never feel fear. . .and suddenly you had an army that others could not stand against. It was taken even further by Kalad, who was said to have created a new and more powerful type of Lifeless, gaining an advantage even more frightening.”
“What kind of new Lifeless?” Siri asked, curious.
“Nobody remembers, your majesty,” Hoid explained. “The records of that time have been lost. Some day they were burned intentionally. Whatever the true nature of Kalad’s Phantoms, they were frightening and terrible--so much so that even though the details have been lost in time, the phantoms themselves live on in our lore. And our curses.”
“Do they really still exist out there?” Siri asked, shivering slightly, glancing toward the unseen jungles. “Like the stories say? An unseen army, waiting for Kalad to return and command them again?”
“Alas,” Hoid said, “I can tell only stories. As I said, so much from that time is lost to us now.”
“But we know of the royal family,” Siri said. “They broke away because they didn’t agree with what Kalad was doing, right? They saw moral problems with using Lifeless?”
The storyteller hesitated. “Why, yes,” he finally said, smiling through his beard. “Yes, they did, your majesty.”
She raised an eyebrow.
“Psst,” Lightsong said, leaning in. “He’s lying to you.”
“Your grace,” the storyteller said, bowing deeply. “I beg your pardon. There are diverging explanations! Why, I am a teller of stories--all stories.”
“And what do other stories say?” Siri asked.
-
.::Warbreaker :: Continued::.
“None of them agree, your majesty,” Hoid said. “Your people speak of religious indignation and of treachery by Kalad the Usurper. The Pahn Kahl people tell of the royal family working hard to gain powerful Lifeless and Awakeners, then being surprised when their tools turned against them. In Hallandren, they tell of the Royal family aligning themselves with Kalad, making him their general and ignoring the will of the people by seeking war with bloodlust.”
He looked up, and then began to trail two handfuls of black, burned charcoal. “But time burns away behind us, leaving only ash and memory. That memory passes from mind to mind, then finally to my lips. When all is truth, and all are lies, does it matter if some say the royal family sought to create Lifeless? Your belief is your own.”
“Either way, the Returned took control of Hallandren,” she said.
“Yes,” Hoid said. “And they gave it a new name, a variation on the old one. And yet, some still speak regretfully of the Royals who left, bearing the blood of the First Returned to their highlands.”
Siri frowned. “Blood of the First Returned?”
“Yes, of course,” Hoid said. “It was his wife, pregnant with his child, who became the first queen of this land. You are his descendant.”
She sat back.
Lightsong turned, curious. “You didn’t know this?” he asked, in a tone lacking his normal flippancy.
She shook her head. “If this fact is known to my people, we do not speak of it.”
Lightsong seemed to find that interesting. Down below, the priests were moving on to a different topic--something about security in the city and increasing patrols in the slums.
She smiled, sensing a subtle way to get to the questions she really wanted to ask. “That means that the God Kings of Hallandren carried on without the blood of the First Returned.”
“Yes, your majesty,” Hoid said, crumbling clay out into the air before him.
“And how many God Kings have there been?”
“Five, your majesty,” the man said. “Including his Immortal Majesty, Lord Susebron, but not including Peacegiver.”
“Five kings,” she said. “In three hundred years?”
“Yes, your majesty,” Hoid said, bringing out a handful of golden dust, letting it fall before him. “The dynasty of Hallandren was founded at the conclusion of the Manywar, the first one gaining his Breath and life from Peacegiver himself, who was revered for dispelling Kalad’s Phantoms and bringing a peaceful end to the Manywar. Since that day, each God King has fathered to a stillborn son who then Returned and took his place.”
Siri leaned forward. “Wait. How did Peacegiver create a new God King?”
“Ah,” Hoid said, switching back to sand with his left hand. “Now there is a story lost in time. How indeed? Breath can be passed from one man to another, but Breath--no matter how much--does not make one a god. Legends say that Peacegiver died by granting his Breath to his successor. After all, can a god not give his life away to bless another?”
“Not exactly a sign of mental stability, in my opinion,” Lightsong said, waving for some more grapes. “You don’t encourage confidence in our predecessors, storyteller. Besides, even if a god gives away his Breath, it doesn’t make the recipient divine.”
“I only tell stories, your grace,” Hoid repeated. “They may be truths, they may be fictions. All I know is that the stories themselves exist and that I must tell them.”
With as much flair as possible, Siri thought, watching him reach into yet another pocket and pull free a handful of small bits of grass and earth. He let bits fall slowly between his fingers.
“I speak of foundations, your grace,” Hoid said. “Peacegiver was no ordinary Returned, for he managed to stop the Lifeless from rampaging. Indeed, he sent away Kalad’s Phantoms, which formed the main bulk of the Hallandren army. By doing so, he left his own people powerless. He did so in an effort to bring peace. By then, of course, it was too late for Kuth and Huth. However, the other kingdoms--Pahn Kahl, Tedradel, Gys, and Hallandren itself--were brought out of the conflict.
“Can we not assume more from this god of gods who was able to accomplish so much? Perhaps he did do something unique, as the priests claim. Leave some seed within the God Kings of Hallandren, allowing them to pass their power and divinity from father to son.”
Heritage which would give them a claim to rule, Siri thought idly slipping a sliced grape into her mouth. With such an amazing god as their progenitor, they could become God Kings. And the only one who could threaten them would be. . . .
The royal family of Idris, who can apparently trace their line back to the First Returned. Another heritage of divinity, a challenger for rightful rule in Hallandren.
That didn’t tell her how the God Kings had died. Nor did it tell her why some gods--such as the First Returned--could bear children, while others could not.
“They’re immortal, correct?” Siri asked.
Hoid nodded, smoothly dropping the rest of his grass and dirt, moving into a different discussion by bringing forth a handful of white powder. “Indeed, your majesty. Like all Returned, the God Kings do not age. Agelessness is a gift for all who reach the Fifth Heightening. ”
“But why have there been five God Kings?” she asked. “Why did the first one die?”
“Why do any Returned pass on, your majesty?” Hoid asked.
“Because they are loony,” Lightsong said.
The storyteller smiled. “Because they tire. Gods are not like ordinary men. They come back for us, not for themselves, and when they can no longer endure life, they pass on. God Kings live only as long as it takes them to produce an heir.”
Siri started. “That’s commonly known?” she asked, then cringed slightly at the potentially suspicious comment.
“Of course it is, your majesty,” the storyteller said. “At least, to storytellers and scholars. Each God King has passed from this world shortly after his son and heir was born. It is natural. Once the heir has arrived, the God King grows restless. Each one has sought out an opportunity to use up his Breath to benefit the realm. And then. . . .”
He threw up a hand, snapping his fingers, throwing up a little spray of water which puffed to mist.
“And then they pass on,” he said. “Leaving their people blessed and their heir to rule.”
The group fell silent, the mist evaporating in front of Hoid.
“Not exactly the most pleasant thing to inform a newlywed wife, storyteller,” Lightsong noted. “That her husband is going to grow bored with life as soon as she bears him a son?”
“I seek not to be charming, your grace,” Hoid said, bowing. At his feet, the various dusts, sands, and glitters mixed together in the faint breeze. “I only tell stories. This one is known to most. I should think that her majesty would like to be aware of it as well.”
“Thank you,” Siri said quietly. “It was good of you to speak of it. Tell me, where did you lean such an. . .unusual method of storytelling?”
Hoid looked up, smiling. “I learned it many, many years ago from a man who didn’t know who he was, your majesty. It was a distant place where two lands meet and gods have died. But that is unimportant.”
Siri ascribed the vague explanation to Hoid’s desire to create a suitably romantic and mysterious past for himself. Of far more interest to her was what he’d said about the God Kings’ deaths.
So there is an official explanation, she thought, stomach twisting. And it’s actually a pretty good one. Theologically, it makes sense that the God Kings would depart once they had arranged for a suitable successor.
But that doesn’t explain how Peacegiver’s Treasure--that wealth of Breath--passes from God King to God King when they have no tongues. And, it doesn’t explain why a man like Susebron would get tired of life when he seems so excited by it.
The official story would work fine for those who didn’t know the God King. It fell flat for Siri. Susebron would never do such a thing. Not now.
Yet. . . Would things change if she bore him a son? Would Susebron grow tired of her that easily?
“Maybe we should be hoping for old Susebron to pass, my queen,” Lightsong said idly, picking at the grapes. “You were forced into all this, I suspect. If Susebron died, you might even be able to go home. No harm done, people healed, new heir on the throne. Everyone is either happy or dead.”
The priests continued to argue below. Hoid bowed, waiting for dismissal.
Happy. . .or dead. Her stomach twisted. “Excuse me,” she said, rising. “I would like to walk about a bit. Thank you for your storytelling, Hoid.”
With that--entourage in tow--she quickly left the pavilion, preferring that Lightsong not see her tears.
-
Reserved for later book postings.
-
.::Confirmed::.
Hoid is ONE person.
Hoid is usually someone who passes information, generally a story teller.
Hoid can travel between worlds.
.::Unconfirmed Due To Non-Canon References::.
There was a second Hoid, but he is not the Hoid that we see in aforementioned books.
Hoid could have once been called Midius, who was a student of the original Hoid.
Hoid is a Lightweaver.
.::Unconfirmed::.
.::Weird Coincidences (or are they?!)::.
A Hoid is an anagram of Idaho
Hoid backwards is Dioh an Dios means God
Hoid could stand for Hero Of Infinite Dimensions
.::Have Something To Contribute::.
Want to put something here? Just post it in the thread and I'll get it up here. I'll spend the next day or two putting theories from the other thread on here so they can all be seen in one place.
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Going off of what it says in WoA, i think it may be possible that all the traveling between worlds that Hoid does is effecting his body somehow causing the strange shaking. either that or he's not used to the climate of this particular planet...
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I think it's all just part of the facade to keep people guessing so that they don't catch on to him. I mean in FE he appeared to be wealthy where in HoA he was a beggar.
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Chris, I must admit, this is beyond ANYTHING that I was thinking! I stand in awe of your awesomeness!
*bows*
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It took me all day (with some help from Mi'ch) to find all these references.
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O.o
Holy crap. You got all of those in one day?!?
*forehead is on the floor*
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There's actually a LARGE amount more that I would like to post. I'm just not sure if I'm allowed to post anything about Liar. You can find Liar if you look hard enough for it.
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I got some more stuff to add- this is from Brandon's Barnes & Noble Q&A
Who is Hoid in WoA? We (TWG) have found some candidates:
Wolfhound merchant
Terris person that Elend meets after Vin went back to Luthadel
Teur or old Jed (the two Skaa in the first Sazed chapter)
Crazy canibal Skaa (I doubt it though)
We already know it isn't the man who discovered duralumin, or the skaa leader outside the dress shop, or the old skaa who waits with the Holy First Witness when the koloss attack.
I think those were all of the characters that we found as candidates.
People are really close to this one, and I noticed that later in this thread, you or someone else mentioned the footprints in the deleted scene.
Hoid's appearance in MB:WA is a little unlike the others. When the scene at the Well was moved in revision, one of Hoid’s major influences on the book had to go (For various reasons.) Left in the book is only one little hint, really. A character notices something odd about someone, but doesn't dwell on it. You can probably find the line if you look very closely.
Let me say this. Hoid got wrapped up in things he didn't expect to be involved in, and they dominated much of his time during the events of MB:WA. He spent most of the book in a different place from most of the viewpoint characters. He's only near them for a very short time, and he's deeply in disguise. I couldn't include his name, as he'd never have used the name "Hoid" for himself there, because it wouldn't have been right for the disguise. He'd have used another pseudonym. (He didn't, by the way, mention one.)
I've probably said too much already. Now, perhaps what people should asking me is this: “What Hoid has been up to in all of these books?” Or, maybe they shouldn't ask me, as I wouldn't be likely to answer. (There are clues in the novels, however.) No, he’s not just hanging out. Yes, I know what he’s been doing. Will I write his scenes some day? Maybe. We’ll see. There may be short stories posted on my website.
So, Brandon. Hoid. I remember you saying at the I.F. signing last year that he was in WoA. We, your dedicated fans who like scouring books searching for obscure characters who have any possibility of being the mysterious Hoid, have yet to find him. Peter sent us on a hunt for him (Hoid, not Peter...) in the deleted scenes, and we found his boot-print.
Now, I think he broke the pottery there too--the one holding the larasium--and since there's broken pottery in the actual version, I think he may have snuck into the cavern and broken it as well. If so, is this Hoid's part in WoA? This trace of him? I commend you if it is. It is clever, making us think it was a person, when in fact it's just something he did.
You are on the right track, but wrong on one point. Hoid does appear in the book.
I had originally toyed with making his touch on the novel more obscure, but decided that I wanted to be consistent with the other novels by actually having him appear. Once I realized I’d probably cut the scene with the footprint, I decided I needed this actual appearance even more badly.
Fortunately, I knew what Hoid had been up to all this time, and had placed him in a position where several characters could run into him. In WoA, Hoid believed (as Vin did) that the Well was in the North, even though it was not. He spent much of the book pursuing this idea.
Through events, however, he discovered he was wrong. He made the realization after Vin did, but only because of a chance meeting. (This is recorded in the books. Let’s just say he was listening in when someone implied that the Well was in Luthadel.)
He hurried to Luthadel, and was in the town, skulking about in the last parts of the novel. He isn’t seen here, though he does still infiltrate the Well. (Hoid is quite proficient at manipulating Shadesmar for his own ends.)
It was latter confirmed by many sources that the old Terrisman who talks to Elend in WoA is indeed Hoid.
Edit- I seem to remember somewhere Brandon mentioning that Hoid broke the pottery to help Elend. Was that just a theory that we had, or did it come from Brandon/Peter?
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Thanks Zas, as soon as I find the actual lines I will edit them in to replace the WoA reference I currently have.
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I THINK that was confirmed. However, the HoA confirmed Hoid ref is posted in the first bit. (Chris, you never sent me the full doc btw)
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Catch me on messenger tomorrow and I'll send it to you.
EDIT :: Just to clarify. So Hoid was the Terrisman and he broke the pot?
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s this thread also going to talk abbout the unpublished works Hoid has been in?
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The ones under "non-canon" are conclusions that were made on the previous thread that drew some from DS and Liar.
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It's OK to link the Liar chapters on the website, but you probably shouldn't quote from them. Also, there is probably too much Hoid in Way of Kings to quote in this thread.
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Well, we wouldn't quote WoK since A: It's not out, and B: pretty much going to answer all of our questions (while creating more)
Does anyone else realize that Brandon said "Hoid is quite proficient at manipulating Shadesmar for his own ends." I think that's beyond uber important!
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i have personal confirmation from Brandon that Hoid is the old Terris steward in WoA. it is unconfirmed whether he broke the pottery in the Well chamber or not. all we have that might suggest that is the footprint in the deleted scene.
And assuming Hoid is in Dragonsteel, who is he? I keep going back and forth between Topaz and Frost. Right now i'm leaning towards Frost, but Topaz is the storyteller...
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There are now links to two different Liar of Partinel downloads on the first post for all of you to enjoy.
@Plasman - But Topaz isn't a Lightweaver. I originally thought that he was Topaz too, because he is the story teller, but it would be really hard for Topaz to Lightweave that effectively.
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That's true. though the fact that Hoid is a lightweaver isn't necessarily cannon. It's just that Topaz seems to have the Hoid personality. storyteller, connected with almost all the mentioned societies in an "spy-like" way... plus there's the very end of the novel which definately suggests something that seems to be a characteristic of Hoid.
Frost seems more to be part of an in-world secret society.
I hate when i think myself into RAFO corners...
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Yeah, that does generally suck.
Peter is Liar a sequel to DS or just another book in the same world? Is it before or after DS?
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Liar of Partinel occurs centuries before the events of Dragonsteel proper.
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Hmm. I just assume that if Hoid had developed the power to do the things Topaz does, he wouldn't struggle with the same things Topaz does. . . unless of course he's lying.
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There are now links to two different Liar of Partinel downloads on the first post for all of you to enjoy.
Yay! New stuff!
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It's actually really old stuff that's just been buried.
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Well, we wouldn't quote WoK since ... B: pretty much going to answer all of our questions
Yeah, you go on thinking that.
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New to me...too lazy to dig for it. ;D
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Peter, can I just say one, tinsy thing? YOU SUCK! *peace*
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Peter, can I just say one, tinsy thing? YOU SUCK! *peace*
I personally think he makes the speculation more fun, haha. His reluctance to answer certain questions and his habit of only giving enough information to say very little at all keeps me just as hooked as actually reading the stories.
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Well, yes of course. That's why I added the peace so that he knew I was joking.
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The whole story of the Liar reminds me of Socrates. That is all.
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I've seen speculation that Hoid stands for Hero Of Infinite Dimensions. Is there any basis to that or is that a coincidental acronym?
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As of right now we don't know. It could mean anything. I mean, the others we have are a Hoid - Idaho and Hoid backwards is dioh which is kinda like dios.
PS:: I added that to the post on the first page. ;]
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I have another.
Highly Ordinary Information Distrubutor
Ya.. ?
I'm shooting blanks at this point.
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Hunter Of Innumerable Ducks.
Healthcare On International Debate.
Hold On, I'm Doping.
Hrrgh, Oh, I'm Dying.
...Yeah, I got nothing. I'll go on another Hoid-hunt in WoA later tonight, to catch anything we might have missed.
EDIT: Those acronyms all make an odd sort of chronological sense, if you put them together.
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Hunter Of Innumerable Ducks.
Healthcare On International Debate.
Hold On, I'm Doping.
Hrrgh, Oh, I'm Dying.
...Yeah, I got nothing. I'll go on another Hoid-hunt in WoA later tonight, to catch anything we might have missed.
EDIT: Those acronyms all make an odd sort of chronological sense, if you put them together.
Ha I do love the fact that he ages with each line.
But.. at least mine has something to do with his personality! :D Now you're just getting lazy my friend.
Hi-tech Omnipotent Intelligence Drive
It could be the cousin of the infinite improbability drive.
:D
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Horror Of Impenetrable Darkness
Holy Oracle and Instrument of Destruction
Happy Old Innocent Dude
Hope Of Inept Dieters
Handler Of Infamous Dictators
Harbinger Of Imminent Death
...
This is actually kind of fun
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Hope Of Inept Dieters
Ha! That one makes me chuckle. Because.. it totally represents me. :(
I just hurt my own feelings. :-[
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Handsome Omnipotent Invisible Destroyer
Heaver of Instantaneous Dominance
(Better than being a paperweight, if you ask me)
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Handler Of Indestructible Droids (What the Shards really are) ;)
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Heavenly Order of Inexplicable Dudes
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Holistic Omnipresent Intelligence Deity
Bearer of infinite exposition.
I strongly suspect that he is strongly adhered to the Cognitive realm and not firmly fixed to the Physical (if I'm wrong, keep in mind that I have only read his commercially published works, Warbreaker drafts and sample chapters - and I avoid reading Spoiler cuts).
At least, that's how I view him until proven otherwise or until I gain more understanding of Sanderson's cosmology and revise this.
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So, when I asked EUOL if Hoid is Midius, he gave me one of those smiley grin things and said that Hoid has many aliases, but wouldn't tell me for sure if he was Midius. He also said no one would be reading the full Partinel text until it had a really good revision. He also said it had MANY spoilers in it.
SO I'm thinking that it was one of those . . . You'll just have to RAFO things. T-T
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Going back to the DS stuff, I just kinda assumed that other one guy was Hoid without even really thinking about it. He's the guy who tries to look like he's just hanging out by coincidence, but it's obvious there's more going on that he's not telling us. The, um, other mainish type character just stands out too much, and is much too prone to snarky comments to be the Hoid we know from the Canon.
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Please don't get that specific when you're discussing things from Dragonsteel on this forum. It's not something most people can read, for a very good reason. It's too spoilerific.
In fact, I would say don't name any names from Dragonsteel that don't appear outside of Dragonsteel. Just associating names with the question of this topic will predisposition people when they actually do get the chance to read Dragonsteel.
For an extreme example, your signature has GOT to go.
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Yikes! First day on the forums, and I've already incurred the wrath of Peter! Sorry about that... I've edited the offending post and made it completely non spoilerish.
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Despite the change I agree with what it had said before. Also, the line that was in your sig was quite humorous. I loved that line. xD
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Yeah, the only thought that I had was, "Hey Miyabi has Dragonsteel stuff in his sig. That's a great idea!" :( Turns out it wasn't a very good idea at all.
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I love the new sig. :D
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Yeah, the only thought that I had was, "Hey Miyabi has Dragonsteel stuff in his sig. That's a great idea!" :( Turns out it wasn't a very good idea at all.
I didn't see what yours was, but I imagine if proper discretion were used, it might not be such a big deal. However, Dragonsteel is something best left kept in the dark, for now. The less we, or anyone not associated with Dragonsteel Entertainment, know about it, the better it will be when we get official news on it.
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Yeah, the only thought that I had was, "Hey Miyabi has Dragonsteel stuff in his sig. That's a great idea!" :( Turns out it wasn't a very good idea at all.
That's just cause mine's not a spoiler. It's just a funny little line.
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Back to Hoid...
Hoid is the one who has all the knowledge in play but who cannot (it seems), due to some sort of non-interference clause (either natural - possibly even biological - or ethical or metaphysical) directly play a role in crucial events going forward from The Shattering - in EVERY face-to-face appearance, he's SOUGHT OUT...he doesn't come actively seeking to influence events!
I've noticed that Hoid is usually sought out by characters (or at least summoned - he NEVER waltzes up to characters uninvited - it seems that he has to be invited to intervene what little he can). Also, he usually comes at night. [Geez...I make him sound like a vampire]
Sarene enlists his aid. He insists upon meeting her only at night.
Kelsier goes out and finds him. This is at night, while the mists are out.
Elend goes to meet him in the camp. This is at night - there are references to Mist and campfires.
Vin almost goes to see him but stops herself. This is also "late at night".
Lightsong and Siri summon him during the day (they cannot leave the court of the gods though and Siri is rarely let into the court as is - and she's been closeted with her husband every night so Hoid had to change his Modus operandi).
I have my suspicions that the only coming out at night is partly to hide what Siri notices easily but dismisses as eccentricities or marks of his station - that he's much younger than he pretends to be.
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So, does he hang out waiting for the characters to ask for his help because he is powerless to help unless he is asked? Or is he pursuing his own goals and agendas completely independent of the other characters? If he has some sort of foresight, perhaps he can identify the important players on each world, but that seems unlikely. Hmm... I like the idea about his only going out at night to hide his age though. Perhaps it is to hide his apparent age, while he tries to make himself look more like how he feels he ought to look. i.e. Really old.
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Yeah...I haven't worked out yet (not perfectly anyway) why he doesn't play a noticeable role until he's invited to do so...
I'm fairly certain that the age/image issue is a factor in his nocturnal appearances. In fact, if not for Warbreaker, I might have chalked his nocturnal preference up to something more mysterious (which could still be a factor but doesn't NEED to be of necessity).
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I am certain that Hoid is/is-connected-to a Shard. Why? Because neither Vin nor Saze saw a spaceship.
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I am certain that Hoid is/is-connected-to a Shard. Why? Because neither Vin nor Saze saw a spaceship.
It is confirmed that he is not a shard.
He might be connected to one though.
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This is WAY beyond my understanding so it might be complete tripe which makes no sense to the initiated (and is heavily influenced by my own strange views, too much meditation and lack of sleep) but I speculate that part of the fallout from The Shattering (obviously Adonalsium shattered and scattered - every shard with epic god-powers...that HAD to have been an epic event unleashing massive magic energies) COULD have unfastened Hoid (the witness to this event) from his former place in the cosmos - I wouldn't say that he HAS to be connected to a shard, he could simply be cursed (in a fashion).
Perhaps he's contacting our heroes in an effort to complete a series of goals with the sole intention of changing his lot.
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I've not read all the books talked about (yet) but Brandon has said that Hoid is not just hanging around on these worlds during the events in the stories, he has his own motives and goals, and is actively pursuing them while the main characters are following their own paths.
I prefer to think that the whole night thing is merely hoid keeping up expectations. in the mistborn books, as an informant, it makes alot more sense for informants to meet under cover of night. simple as that, most shady events happen at night. it'd be out of place to meet an informant during the day...
and in Elantris, it's even said in the text that the group of people that he is acting with has been used to doing things under cover of night for a long time, sure they don't have to any more, but if they are still used to it then it makes sense that hoid wouldn't bother breaking tradition eh?
my personal thoughts on his seeming inability to act before being sought out is that Hoid isn't actually limited by any normal sense, but he's trying to keep his involvement hidden from someone/thing else that might if he were to act any more heavy handedly notice him. he's the only person(thing?) we've met(knowingly) that can jump from world to world... but that doesn't mean he's the only one that can do it..
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:o We all talk about Hoid having some part in the breaking of Adolnasium, but now that you mention it Po, he could be hiding from what/whoever really broke Adolnasium, because, what/whoever it is wants Adolnasium to stay broken! Primary Myth Arc Villian!
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We should probably add the thing about Hoid being present at the Shattering to the first page.
That is confirmed, isn't it?
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Speaking of Hoid Compendiums, what happened to the website Miyabi?
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We'll be down for a month or two. I'm too busy right this moment and I'm going to revamp the whole site.
Don't worry though. We'll be back with a new name and an all new look soon-ish.
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what website is this?
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hoidscompendium.org It's down now though. We'll be back up in a month or two with a new name and a new look. lol.
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So, I attended Brandon's reading this morning at BYU. Afterwards, when he was signing my tattered Mistborn Paperbacks, I asked him if Hoid were hiding from something. He said, (and I paraphrase) "Kind of. He is also looking for something. But he certainly doesn't want to attract the wrong type of attention." He then informed me that Hoid has a viewpoint in TWoK, and then mused aloud that his section might be a good one to read at his second reading today at 5:00. I don't know that I'll be able to make it, but somebody here is going to, right?
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someone had better post a summary of that one. I can't get there by five.
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Brandon read a section from the epilogue, of all places. So I recommend no one post a summary.
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That seems very . . . . much an odd place to read from.
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Dangit Brandon, now I have to wait until the book is actually published. >:( Out of random curiosity, did this epilogue involve Hoid? I want to know if I inspired him to do this. The way he said it made it sound like he'd never thought of reading Hoid's part, and then decided to do so right then and there. Also, I'm mad at myself for making the epilogue un-sum-up-able, and mad at myself for missing it. Of course, if Hoid is not involved, it's not my fault. I'm probably deluding myself by even considering the idea. ... I can't believe I let myself miss this! >:(
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I was there for both readings on friday and now i am so incredibly excited for this book. The Hoid section was the epilogue? that's kinda strange. but it was cool! it didn't seem to give much of anything away. brandon stopped reading just before something particularly important happened. for the most part [REDACTED] just talked about the world pissing on itself, ominous noises, and what mankind values most. the most entertaining section he read though was about a man waking up naked in an alley and his interactions with the insane man who lived in the alley with his tubers. VERY funny stuff.
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Okay, to answer the questions, Yes, hoid was [REDACTED] and it was the epilogue.
Hoid's point in this book is [REDACTED]. Hoid will have a couple of scenes in the main part of the book, and then the scene that was read at the end.
Also, make sure you pay BIG ATTENTION to one of the interludes. I've been told about it, and trust me, you all will want to make sure you pay attention.
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I used EUOL's account to redact part of the previous two posts.
Guys, I consider this specific info to be taking out part of the fun of reading the book. Brandon revealed it to the diehards, but let's please leave it at that in public. If you want to discuss it in private messages that's up to you, but I think it's more fun to read the book and try to figure out for yourself which character is Hoid (it is specifically revealed in the book, but not until late, and if you know right away who it is because you read his name here that will be no fun).
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Okay Peter, sorry about that.
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What I wanna know is why did Vin avoid Hoid in HoA? Does he have some kind of bad vibe that only some people can notice.
Now, I'm not sure what the Splinters are exactly, but I know that TLR and the Returned are Splinters. Is Vin one? Cuz that, and Hoid giving off some sort of vibe would explain something about both the nature of Hoid and the Splinters at the same time. I don't know if this is even based on correct premises or close to be in the realm of possibility, but I noticed something and I want it noticed, dangit! (dern run on sentence)
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Brandon said TLR is a Sliver. He didn't say anything about him being a Splinter.
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Brandon said TLR is a Sliver. He didn't say anything about him being a Splinter.
Yep, my terminology is messed up. I could really use some definitions here.
But is Vin a Sliver, cuz she held the power of the Well, like Rashek did? Or did he only gain that status by keeping it?
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http://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/264132-q-a-with-brandon-sanderson?page=2#comment_14423063
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Thanks, Peter. I already read it, but I had mostly forgotten that post.
So Vin technically is a Sliver. So, maybe her leftover power let her intuitively notice something being up with Hoid, so she left him alone. So the implied question is: what is it about Hoid that only Slivers can see?
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Thanks, Peter. I already read it, but I had mostly forgotten that post.
So Vin technically is a Sliver. So, maybe her leftover power let her intuitively notice something being up with Hoid, so she left him alone. So the implied question is: what is it about Hoid that only Slivers can see?
This seems like a bit of a leap to conclusions. It could also possibly be Ruin's influence that makes Vin wary.
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Thanks, Peter. I already read it, but I had mostly forgotten that post.
So Vin technically is a Sliver. So, maybe her leftover power let her intuitively notice something being up with Hoid, so she left him alone. So the implied question is: what is it about Hoid that only Slivers can see?
This seems like a bit of a leap to conclusions. It could also possibly be Ruin's influence that makes Vin wary.
Was Ruin present in that scene? And that could have implications of it's own: Vin knows a trap, maybe that's why she dashed, so would Ruin recognize Hoid and use him as a way to bait a trap for Vin? A stretch, I know, but it's an idea I like.
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I always wondered if maybe Vin would recognize him or something, but there's a few flaws in that theory...
I also wonder if being Slivers somehow ties them into the big picture. Of course, as long as they were Shards they would be majorly important, but I wonder if Slivers still hold a small amount of power,or at least will have to play a part assuming the Shards eventually all come together.
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Thanks, Peter. I already read it, but I had mostly forgotten that post.
So Vin technically is a Sliver. So, maybe her leftover power let her intuitively notice something being up with Hoid, so she left him alone. So the implied question is: what is it about Hoid that only Slivers can see?
This seems like a bit of a leap to conclusions. It could also possibly be Ruin's influence that makes Vin wary.
Was Ruin present in that scene? And that could have implications of it's own: Vin knows a trap, maybe that's why she dashed, so would Ruin recognize Hoid and use him as a way to bait a trap for Vin? A stretch, I know, but it's an idea I like.
I don't know about the second question, but as for the first question: Ruin has the demonstrated ability to push on Vin's emotions even when he isn't personally present or "paying attention." It changes the way she sees the world, makes her more destructive. (For example, this can manifest as a voice telling her to kill everybody she sees, or driving her to find the Atium despite its general uselessness.) Thus it's possible that Ruin's influence or way of seeing the world could leak into her response to Hoid, without Ruin showing himself.
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A newbie's question - did Ruin or Preservation know about Hoid?
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I highly doubt it. Unless Hoid wants you to know about him ..... You probably don't.
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I highly doubt it. Unless Hoid wants you to know about him ..... You probably don't.
Sounds like a bad Chuck Norris joke... "You don't find Hoid. Hoid finds you."
However, I'm fairly sure that Miyabi is right.
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Hoid does seem to have a knack for being inconspicuous. Having only read Brandon's published works (and no previews for any of the almost-published ones) I would say it is far from clear whether Ruin and Preservation don't know about Hoid, don't care about Hoid, or just can't do anything about him.
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I don't know. I think that Ruin/Preservation are aware of Hoid. After all, wasn't it Hoid that broke the pottery with Lerasium in it? Or was that only in the Alternate Ending? Anyways, I'd want to keep track of those semi-magical, planet-hopping, refugee-leading people messing around in My Planet.
And I think that it's a logical jump to say that Vin, as a sliver, and as a Hemalurgic Seeker, would be able to feel something odd about Hoid.
Sliver in HoA- those that have had power of Preservation, then lost it (Kelsier at the very end, TLR, Vin after Well)
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And how exactly Kelsier ened up with Preservation's power?
I'm sorry, but I'm just after Elantris and Mistborn, with no alternative endings or stuff, so I know just some random messy basic stuff about Shards, Silver et cetera, et cetera.
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Kel didn't have a lot of it, he just had a little access to it.
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Where is that said and how could he?
I mean, there wasn't anything about it in the book.
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Where is that said and how could he?
I mean, there wasn't anything about it in the book.
There was a post by Brandon about it on the forum a while back, but it's probably easier to find it in the MB3 Annotations (it's one of the recent ones.)
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I don't know what page its on, but after Spook pulls out his spike, Kelsier's voice speaks in his head and tells him he's proud of him, or something. I don't remember exactly what.
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From the banks of my memory, *ahem* "I named you. I was your friend. Wasn't that enough?" Yeah, he said that when Leras died, Kelsier was waiting and grabbed the power. In this way, he was able to send his messages to Spook the same way Vin later sent messages to Elend. He mentioned that the reason Spook could hear Kelsier is because Spook actually believed in Kelsier as a God when the other crew members did not.
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I was wondering why he referred to Kelsier having 'piggybacked' the power. I just assumed that after Leras died, the power was almost free for the taking, and Kelsier took it(potentially to keep Ruin from doing so). Why couldn't Kell take all of the power, if he could take some of it? Was it simply because the mists chose Vin?
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I was wondering why he referred to Kelsier having 'piggybacked' the power. I just assumed that after Leras died, the power was almost free for the taking, and Kelsier took it(potentially to keep Ruin from doing so). Why couldn't Kell take all of the power, if he could take some of it? Was it simply because the mists chose Vin?
Probably because even though the power was receptive to him, he wasn't "attuned" to it, like Leras, the Lord Ruler, and Vin were.
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Plus the fact that Kelsier didn't have a body. That probably had something to do with it.
The 'attuned' to it, I think that it has some weight, but not a lot. After all, Sazed was able to take both Ruin and Preservation's shard-power. Maybe that's only because he was close to the bodies, which still had a connection to the power.
At this point all I have is theory.
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But how could Kel knew about Ruin and Preservation?
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I guess because instead of continuing on to the afterlife proper, i.e. where Vin and Elend wind up, he stuck around to see how thing turned out. Perhaps he could talk to Preservation from there. Not that Preservation would be able to say much. He may have even followed the other characters around, figuring stuff out with them. He also trusted the mist, so if he figured out the connection between it and Leras, he might have just grabbed it without knowing what it was. End Speculation.
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I guess because instead of continuing on to the afterlife proper, i.e. where Vin and Elend wind up, he stuck around to see how thing turned out. Perhaps he could talk to Preservation from there. Not that Preservation would be able to say much. He may have even followed the other characters around, figuring stuff out with them. He also trusted the mist, so if he figured out the connection between it and Leras, he might have just grabbed it without knowing what it was. End Speculation.
What I find interesting is that he was able to use the power of preservation to talk to Spook only because Spook thought of him, at least partially, as divine. Why does faith play this role in the Cosmere, do you suppose?
As for the rest of the speculation, we know that as an Allomancer, Kelsier had limited access to Preservation's power even in life. It might be possible that that connection, along with a certain amount of faith from the Church of the Survivor, allowed him to temporarily hack into the deeper powers that Preservation had?
Ah, the world-building is tantalizing. Any other guesses?
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What I find interesting is that he was able to use the power of preservation to talk to Spook only because Spook thought of him, at least partially, as divine. Why does faith play this role in the Cosmere, do you suppose?
As for the rest of the speculation, we know that as an Allomancer, Kelsier had limited access to Preservation's power even in life. It might be possible that that connection, along with a certain amount of faith from the Church of the Survivor, allowed him to temporarily hack into the deeper powers that Preservation had?
Ah, the world-building is tantalizing. Any other guesses?
It has to do with the spiritual realm affecting te physical and mental realms.
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What I find interesting is that he was able to use the power of preservation to talk to Spook only because Spook thought of him, at least partially, as divine. Why does faith play this role in the Cosmere, do you suppose?
As for the rest of the speculation, we know that as an Allomancer, Kelsier had limited access to Preservation's power even in life. It might be possible that that connection, along with a certain amount of faith from the Church of the Survivor, allowed him to temporarily hack into the deeper powers that Preservation had?
Ah, the world-building is tantalizing. Any other guesses?
It has to do with the spiritual realm affecting te physical and mental realms.
Go Realmatic Theory!
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So because Spook has a connection on the Spiritual Realm (he believes in him), Kelsier has a stronger connection to him in the Cognitive Realm (he talks to him). Right?
This explains why Vin could talk to Elend. It mentioned several times that he fundamentally trusted in her, even if she was somewhat unreasonable.
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Just to throw my two cents in - Elend also repeatedly described Vin as a force -almost like a god herself. He trusted in her wholeheartedly and even joined the church of the survivor. I could easily see how Vin's contact with Elend was established because of Elend's trust and belief in what Vin is. Same goes for Kel and Spook.
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Plus the fact that Kelsier didn't have a body. That probably had something to do with it.
The 'attuned' to it, I think that it has some weight, but not a lot. After all, Sazed was able to take both Ruin and Preservation's shard-power. Maybe that's only because he was close to the bodies, which still had a connection to the power.
At this point all I have is theory.
I have a feeling Sazed's situation was a bit of an exception, given the way that Ruin and Preservation had fought beforehand. Laras died differently to the way Vin did. But yeah, that's obviously speculation.
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Okay... I'm caught up on this thread at least.... Geez i've been away for too long.
Anyways, this talk of realms has got me thinking: Preservation and Ruin both have physical, mental, and power components to them right (ie: lerasium, the mist spirit (who is what is left of preservation's mind), and the mists, respectively). So, what if the whole Adonalsium is the same way. Hoid seems similar to the mist spirit to me. And he shows up in every world where shards are present (keep in mind, I've only read every published work). What if Hoid is the mind or body/host of the power of adonalsium, and he wanders around because he has been split off from his power.
On to another thread!
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Also, does anyone have page numbers for the Hoid passages?
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I don't off the top of my head, but these are the exact passages.
There are three parts: physical, mental, and spiritual. It's all part of realmatic theory. If one is affected or changed the others are also.
ALSO:
COMA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! -Glomp- Where have you BEEEEEEN?
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Unfortunately, life got to me... It does feel good to back though :) I missed it year, yes I did indeed.
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Page references are on the first page of this thread, and I don't think that Hoid is the fractured remain of Andonalsium, because he was there when Andonalsium shattered. I guess that means that he could've ben Andonalsium, but I don't think so.
PS. I like the Dr. Horrible quote.