Timewaster's Guide Archive
Local Authors => Writing Group => Topic started by: Miyabi on November 25, 2009, 03:19:06 AM
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I have a question.
At what point (and what) do you send your novel or novel idea to a publisher?
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When your manuscript is done. Then it's time to start querying, unless you have a personal relationship with an editor.
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When your mauscript is done, and revised to the point where you don't think you can make it any better.
Also, these days you generally don't your manuscript to a publisher directly (unless, perhaps, you're targeting small presses). You send it to an agent, and if you find one willing to represent you, they'll approach publishers.
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yeah. dont send it off before you are done. I've heard so many people say "well, by the time I get a response, I will be done." the agent or editor could ask for a full manuscript the day after you send it. it's happened. then you will have blown your chance. in addition, you don't know that you can finish a novel until you have actually finished it.
You send your manuscript to an agent first--though some cases it is ok to send to an editor first, it just makes it hard to get any sort of bargaining power on the contract that way. If you don't personally know an agent or an editor, you send query letters, and then the manuscript when/if they ask for it.
If you feel comfortable that your manuscript is good enough, send it out. It doesn't have to be perfect (thought the first 3 chapters/30 pages should be as close to perfect as possible). I've read manuscript submissions that were given to Brandon's agent Joshua, and they were rough. If there is a glimmer of writing there, and a fantastic idea and story, you have a shot. If you feel like you are just tinkering, stop wasting your time and send your query/manuscript out while you work on your next project.
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Thanks guys.
bookstore - What would be included in a query letter?
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Typically a paragraph about yourself (including past professional sales in the market--short stories, etc, and perhaps a bit about how your influences coincide with the Agent's client list), and a paragraph about the book. Don't write it so it can be read with the movie-
trailer guy's voice ("In a WORLD where cotton candy is POISON...").
For Example:
"My novel, THE PINK BUNNIES, is a historical fantasy about Playboy Bunnies being transported to Victorian England where they start an interstellar brothel. " Then add some stuff that highlights why it is different from all the other Playboy Bunny stories. Cool magic. Neat Setting. Whatever.
You can probably do an internet search on query letters to get some decent examples. Some agents even post the text of the queries they liked.
This is all the query advice I can give, since the two agents I know just want the manuscript to my novel when it is done, skipping the query phase and partial manuscript phase completely. Hope I helped a tad.
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Yes you did. Thanks a ton. =]
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Well, nobody's addressed this, so I'll pipe up. This is what I'd do if I were you (and I hope to be you--meaning finished my first draft--at some point in the not-to-distant-future):
1) Finish 1st draft
2) Revise entire book focusing exclusively on plot holes
3) Revise entire book focusing exclusively on character development
4) Revise entire book focusing exclusively on setting/description
5) Grammar Nazi time
You can re-arrange steps 2 through 4 depending on where you think your book's weakest spot is, but to my thinking, if your plot has holes, well, those need to be fixed first.
Anyway, the above is my plan of attack, and I think it's pretty good, but if anyone would feel free to disagree...
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Well, were I to submit a manuscript, I would have to go through all of those steps before I could call it "done", in my mind. As Steve said, there is a point where there is too much revision and you're just tinkering, but there's no reason to simply let obvious flaws tarnish the submission. Make it as good as you can get it.
Before submitting, I'd do one good revision of the manuscript after pushing it through a writing group or alpha readers to get some perspective on it. One revision can go a world of good, and if you're like me and make typos fairly frequently (or missing words, in my case), a final readthrough for polish would be effective. At the very least, read through the first three chapters and make sure there's no flaws.
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It's not completely done. It feels very promising though. I think I have a decently original concept and my outline is quite filled out and the writing is coming along really well.
And yes, I was actually going to do my own revisions. Give it to a certain few friends I know would be good at editing, then ask someone I know who is a professional editor how much they charge and pay them to look it over, then send it in.
Thanks Cynic. =]
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Exactly--make the first three chapters as polished as possible. There comes a point where it's not worth putting any more effort into unless you know it's getting picked up. It's like when new writers try to write a huge series. Why would you keep writing sequels in the series if you aren't sure the first book is going to sell?
I wouldn't give it to a professional editor and pay them to look at it. Once again, why pay when you aren't sure the book will get picked up. That's a needless expense. A good agent will see promise in you novel if there is promise to be had. Paying an editor before you get an agent and a REAL editor feels like you are submitting to a scam.
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It's like when new writers try to write a huge series. Why would you keep writing sequels in the series if you aren't sure the first book is going to sell?
Definitely. It's much better to keep moving on to new things until you get an IP that someone wants.
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I've probably learned more here, in less than a page, than I have anywhere else. =]
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how do you get the names and contacts of agents to send manuscripts to?
do any people start with short stories then get agents contacting them if they get a reputation?
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Guessingo: These days, the Internet is a great way to start. Checking the acknowledgement pages of the books you read is also not a bad way to procure agent names.
As far as agents (or editors, for that matter) contacting authors themselves: As far as I know, it does happen, but it's rare.
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I seem to remember an episode of some podcast (it may have been Writing Excuses) where someone talks of a short story they had written and put into a competition and some agent like basically attacked him asking for a manuscript of a book for it. lol.
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george rr martin wrote somewhere that he recommends that people start with short stories for several years in order to build a reputation before looking for an agent.
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how do you get the names and contacts of agents to send manuscripts to?
http://agentquery.com/
http://www.publishersmarketplace.com/
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george rr martin wrote somewhere that he recommends that people start with short stories for several years in order to build a reputation before looking for an agent.
I disagree. That may work for some people, but writing a good short story vs writing a good novel (in my opinion) are different skill sets. I'd say write what you feel like writing, and try to sell it. But don't feel like you need to follow a script.
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martin's rationale was to make a name for yourself. this makes it more likely that someone will read your manuscript.
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They're also good credits to put in your query letter, particularly if you land a sale with one of the big three publishers (Asimov, Analog, SF&F). But any agent will tell you that it's not necessary to have those credits. And yes, I agree with Steve. Short story and novel writing are related skill sets, but they are different skill sets.
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supposedly Baen online short stories pays the most. 25 cents/word. It is still chump change... so you are probably better off trying to get your story published in one of the big name short story magazines.
the thing is, I know alot of people who read sci-fi/fantasy. I don't know anyone who gets those magazines.
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supposedly Baen online short stories pays the most. 25 cents/word. It is still chump change... so you are probably better off trying to get your story published in one of the big name short story magazines.
the thing is, I know alot of people who read sci-fi/fantasy. I don't know anyone who gets those magazines.
Don't underestimate Baen. They sell well, but they are mostly Military SF or Alternate History.
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george rr martin wrote somewhere that he recommends that people start with short stories for several years in order to build a reputation before looking for an agent.
I disagree. That may work for some people, but writing a good short story vs writing a good novel (in my opinion) are different skill sets. I'd say write what you feel like writing, and try to sell it. But don't feel like you need to follow a script.
Exactly. One time I was talking with Brandon and Eric James Stone. Brandon had talked about how wonderful Eric is at writing short stories and how much he himself sucks at it.