Timewaster's Guide Archive
Local Authors => Reading Excuses => Topic started by: Recovering_Cynic on November 02, 2009, 07:00:08 PM
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Here it is! I finally got around to writing the prologue. The story will be going through some major changes so expect to see new first chapters and reworked/adapted portions of what has already been written.
As to the prologue, is it compelling enough? That's my main concern. Don't worry about grammar stuff; I'll sort through that later.
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Yes, the prologue is certainly compelling enough. From the first line, I really felt the inner conflict that Lyro had, and really felt sorry for him. And plus you totally tricked me when he told the priest to kill his little girl. I was horrified. hehe. Really strong characterization in this prologue, and it really makes me wonder what's going to happen with his children later on in the story.
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I'd say it's compelling enough. It definitely grabs your attention.
That being said, I totally called it from about the fourth or fifth paragraph. But you shouldn't have done anything differently, the emotional conflict that makes the outcome predictable is also what makes the passage interesting to read.
I'd keep reading if handed a book with this as a prologue, so I'd say it accomplishes it's purpose.
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Hmm, I did not receive your submission. Not that I have the time tonight to actually critique it, but I'd like to read it eventually... like... tomorrow...
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I didn't get it either... which is weird since I got Andrew's just fine...
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Sending it out again. Let me know asap if you don't get it :)
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Well I got it again, but then, I got it the first time, so that doesn't tell us much.
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I got it this time. I'll get to it soon. :)
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And here it is.
"Thought while Reading" shall be winging its way to you. Seems it is really easier to do comments on the page then to pull up another window. :P
Anyway, overall stuff. I actually wasn't all that excited by it. You've told us already what was going to happen, so that could be the majority of the problem. It is a really nice concept, but a lot of it seemed like you were rambling/infodumping and the conversation seemed a bit forced for our benefit. It isn't a bad scene it just needs lots of tightening up when you get to revisions. And I actually felt that you needed to foreshadow the killing of the priest a bit more, even just showing us that the king has a knife or something. Right now I was getting resignation and depression from him, but no initiative making him seem a tad bit shitzo to suddenly have a calculated, cold-blooded killing.
As far as character goes, I wanted to like the king and may yet be persuaded to, but I don't know.... He is protecting his child from a cold-blooded execution by having several others committed, even one he has the gall to call a 'friend.' He is logically and efficiently carrying out an emotionally based decision and it struck me as off. I guess I just wanted some more passion, some more attempts to negotiation and for you to show me more proof that this really was his last, desperate option. Though it could just be me.
Good luck. Keep it coming. :)
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Mercedes Lackey has a book titled "Oathbound" just so you know.
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Thanks for the heads up! It's just the tentative title at the moment, but I'll be sad to change it. It's ironic on so many levels given the story.
Oh, vegethalas, if you'd like, I'll copy you on my prologue. It's only six pages double-spaced, so if you're interested, let me know. Given your background, I'd be interested in your take on it.
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Thanks for the heads up! It's just the tentative title at the moment, but I'll be sad to change it. It's ironic on so many levels given the story.
Everyone knows you just stole it from my short story ;)
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Instead of doing the logical thing and continuing NaNoWriMo, I'm critiquing this morning! Aren't you happy? ;)
I'm going to do line level things first (well, paragraph things). There were only two of them, but they really confused me when I read them.
He let his eyes wander and stare blankly at the tapestry. Over a thousand years of battles, battles against monsters, demons, gods, and men swam before his eyes. Asharia had guided him and he had conquered. Even the Danubian priesthood which now so ardently supported Asharia more than any other faction of the Empire was on that wall, just a stepping stone on the path to building the holy empire, to glorifying Asharia, to glorifying himself.
We switched to him looking at the tapestry (which, to me, signals that we get a description of it) to talking about Lyro again. It threw me off.
Darion nodded stiffly and took a wooden step forward. He reached the crib and bent over to reach inside. The dagger slipped between his ribs and entered his heart before he could do more than gasp.
This seemed confusing to me, since in the last paragraph I got the impression that Darion was going to kill one of the children, and so when I first read it, it seemed like Darion was using the dagger on the son. Rather strange, because I thought Lyro was more likely to keep the son. Of course, it's clear when I read the next paragraph, but this one still seems off. Wouldn't Lyro, being the viewpoint character, know he's stabbing his high priest? Only saying "the dagger" is rather vague, and confusing.
All right, with that out of the way (I promise, it directly relates to my critique!), overall stuff. I'm glad I hadn't read any of your other submissions, so I got a clean slate. Unlike Andrew, I did not see the ending coming. I'd say you succeeded. I have to wonder, however, about this immortal king. Is he a god? Seems to me Asharia is real, as She gave Lyro immortality, even though perhaps he didn't want it. If Asharia is real, it would probably be an extremely bad idea to defy her. She can give immortality, I'm sure She could take it away. And if She can grant immortality, She can probably do a whole bunch of terrible things.
Yet, we have Lyro defying her anyways. The way he speaks about Asharia after killing Darion gives me the impression that Lyro, y'know, has a choice on whether to worship her or not, whereas I thought I understood from earlier that Asharia was the Goddess, capital letter (though if this is not the case, as it may be, that may be why you didn't capitalize "She" when referring to her). So do we have a monotheistic religion or a polytheistic one? Does Asharia exist? Seems to me that if you had a monotheistic religion which has undeniable proof of Her existence (and, you know, can grant immortality to her followers if she chooses), I'd definitely want to convert to that religion!
Of course, this is fantasy, and gods sometimes have this annoying habit of not being real gods, but posers of gods, which Asharia might be (hence giving a reason for there to be rebels in the Empire). Rebels could have other socioeconomic reasons for rebelling, but with Darion's talk about factions in the Empire, I assumed it was a more religious thing.
Either way, things are going to get worse, and that is always fun to watch. I might read on, were I to pick this off the shelf.
Why maybe? Setting or world-wise, nothing grabbed my interest. There's an Empire, there's some god, and there's a God King. Not exactly the most original starts (oh, and there's twins; a boy and a girl! Please don't make them Luke and Leia...). However, having the immortal god-king rebel against the greater god because he doesn't want to kill his children? That is awesome. It gives me an emotional tie to what is happening, and you succeeded in this regard.
I hated that conversation with Valenth near the beginning. It threw me out of the emotional tension of the scene. True, I'm sure Lyro can wait an hour to decide, but he's probably already been thinking about this for a while. I sort of doubt that Asharia would be, "Hey Lyro, how's it going. I know your wife just died during childbirth. I'm a goddess, so I haven't told you that she'd have twins, but yeah... I'm going to need you to kill one of them. Actually, I'll need you to kill one right now. Not tomorrow, but literally like two seconds from now!"
If this were the case, then I could totally forgive him wanting to hear an update on the Empire. Because if there is tension with the war-front and all of a sudden he needs to kill his kid, that ramps up his mind to "Holy s***" levels of stress.
The way it currently is doesn't make sense. You don't win wars overnight; surely Lyro would know the rebellion is on the verge of defeat. He wouldn't say, "I need a report!" We're given no background on to why he would want such a report, so it feels like war exposition. Makes me want to roll my eyes, y'know?
(Conversely, I was glad when Lyro didn't start expositing about the history of the world and Asharia when he looked at the tapestry. I sighed in relief at that point; we don't need the complete mythology on the second page. Though I suppose I have the same blocking issue I had with the war exposition: doesn't Lyro know what's on the tapestry? It's his house. He seems to have a reverence for it, despite the fact that he's seen it dozens of times)
If Valenth was to say, "Hey Lyro, big news, we just won!" "Um, Valenth, I'm kinda in the middle of something..." That would make a lot more sense. Once I read to the end of the submission, I realized why we needed to see Valenth, or else the ending wouldn't work.
So really, I suppose what I'm looking for in the scene is more context for the characters, because in this scene, the character and Lyro's struggle is the only thing that really matters. The struggle was great, just exploit it to the extreme! I liked it a lot.
EDIT: Oh, I forgot to say, I loved the first line. Sets up the emotional aspect immensely well. Just give me more of it! :)
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Chaos, you rock. You have given me much to think on.
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Chaos, you rock. You have given me much to think on.
Glad I could help ;) I look forward to reading more!
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Yet, we have Lyro defying her anyways. The way he speaks about Asharia after killing Darion gives me the impression that Lyro, y'know, has a choice on whether to worship her or not, whereas I thought I understood from earlier that Asharia was the Goddess, capital letter (though if this is not the case, as it may be, that may be why you didn't capitalize "She" when referring to her). So do we have a monotheistic religion or a polytheistic one? Does Asharia exist? Seems to me that if you had a monotheistic religion which has undeniable proof of Her existence (and, you know, can grant immortality to her followers if she chooses), I'd definitely want to convert to that religion!
I don't know for sure, but I was under the impression that it was monotheistic, and that she existed for certain. That's what made it such a big impact for me when he turned against her. He could live forever following her, if he only kills one of his children - and he chooses to save his child, practically sealing his fate for it (and plunging his nation into a long and bloody war, which is less cool, I will admit). That was one of the things that made this work for me, and made him understandable. <shrug>
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I like this new prologue. It establishes the conflict quite well, in my opinion.
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Yet, we have Lyro defying her anyways. The way he speaks about Asharia after killing Darion gives me the impression that Lyro, y'know, has a choice on whether to worship her or not, whereas I thought I understood from earlier that Asharia was the Goddess, capital letter (though if this is not the case, as it may be, that may be why you didn't capitalize "She" when referring to her). So do we have a monotheistic religion or a polytheistic one? Does Asharia exist? Seems to me that if you had a monotheistic religion which has undeniable proof of Her existence (and, you know, can grant immortality to her followers if she chooses), I'd definitely want to convert to that religion!
I don't know for sure, but I was under the impression that it was monotheistic, and that she existed for certain. That's what made it such a big impact for me when he turned against her. He could live forever following her, if he only kills one of his children - and he chooses to save his child, practically sealing his fate for it (and plunging his nation into a long and bloody war, which is less cool, I will admit). That was one of the things that made this work for me, and made him understandable. <shrug>
I actually got that reaction, too, but when I was writing my critique, a lot of other ideas spawned into my head.
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I think this makes for a perfectly decent prologue. That said...
Some explication of the logic behind the "only one heir" rule would be nice. I can extrapolate, but it's so opposite from the usual logic (have as many children as possible to secure an heir for the throne) that it could probably use some explicit explication.
Also, what's this about mingling his seed with mortals leading to no good? Exactly how is he supposed to get ANY heirs out of this deal? I assume avatars of the goddess aren't all that common.
I don't have a problem with Valenth's loyalty, but until the King addressed him I didn't even realize that he was still in the room. Surely he had some reaction to the King killing an unsuspecting priest?
It might be stupid to defy Asharia, who I assumed was a real god. It's also stupid to knowingly throw an entire empire--your empire--into war. He's doing it to save his children. No problems there.
I thought Darion's argument, that "this will only get harder later", made a lot of sense insofar as it's something someone in his position would say (whether it's actually true or not, who knows? no one, I hope). I don't at all understand Chaos's problem with it. (Also, I don't think that this has been sprung on the king unknowingly. I imagine that this has been a tradition, even a law, long before the king's children were so much as a gleam in his eye).