Timewaster's Guide Archive
Local Authors => Reading Excuses => Topic started by: jwdenzel on January 19, 2009, 05:20:16 PM
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Thank you all very much for your feedback, big or small.
-J
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Alright. I absolutely love it when someone uses first person present, can I just say that? It wouldn't work for an entire book but it is just perfect for what you did.
That said: the first page of the prologue didn't work quite so well for me. Possibly because it is very passive; thus far, the speaker is dreaming about flying - something we've probably all done. Possibly because as you were writing it you were still getting into the flow of things and your style isn't quite as evident. However, after the first page it really picked up and drew me in.
Amazing final line for the prologue, btw.
Good worldbuilding for when Aric is in his cabin - you don't explain to us what sages are. You don't really tell us what the meditation is supposed to accomplish. But Aric knows.
And - yay! He is impaled with a glowing red gem!! yes!!
One has to wonder how 150 ships could sail on an endless ocean for nine months. How do they get enough water? What about food and supplies? You don't need to explain everything to us in this chapter, or even in the next one. Just so long as you know the answer and get the info to us eventually.
Once Aric starts giving his speech about supply levels and changing their course by fourteen degrees, I had to wonder why you started the story here. It seems like the sort of thing for captains' or navigators' meeting, not a speech to the crew. And I started to lose interest.
Cool. Is the King also God? Or is it simply divine right to the extreme? I'm interested.
At first I was very confused about the mountain. How could it be seen if it is a week away? Once I figured out it was floating in the sky, I had to wonder: how do they know it is a week away?
And lastly.
I want to see you published.
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Ok, I don’t mean to be nit-picky and I know it’s only a working title, but I think you should know that Curt Benjamin wrote a book of the same title.
I agree with Reaves about the first page being too passive. Though the philosophizing didn’t really help too much either, for me.
I really didn’t get into the story until page four. For me that was the point of suspension of reality.
That last line is beautifully done, bravo!
Minor point: Armor is not a good idea anywhere around deep water.
Red gem, Red Gem! Lol!
On page 8: I don’t think you need to say how many ships there are three times. Once is probably enough, unless some have been lost in the journey.
I again have to agree with Reaves about the speech. If he’s talking to the Captains of the other ships, I would assume that they were chosen for their experience, and that they would already know about the course change. They already know that the world is not flat so their level of technology should be high enough for them to have sextants and the like to sail by stars and have exact coordinates.
“…mostly lost in the atmospheric haze.”
This really makes me think that Aric, at least, is not only well schooled, but that the knowledge of these schools far exceeds the use of wood for ocean going ships.
General thoughts on the story: I really like it. God-King, floating Islands, and the air of magic are very intriguing. The line “Perfection is everything” gives a subtle hint into the character of Aric that’s great.
What kept throwing me off from the story was that the MC seemed to know more than I thought he should about the world itself. Unless their God has given them this knowledge, it doesn’t seem right. That the world wasn’t flat wasn’t common knowledge until about 500-600 years ago for us.
But I’m a little too nit-picky at times. The story’s great, and the characters are interesting, great work. I look forward to reading more.
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Thoughts while Reading:
"What does this all mean? Why does it matter to us?" Just what I was thinking...great descriptions though.
Not too found of the prologue in general. It really doesn't tell me all that much and seems overly long and passive.
That is exactly what happens to me when I try to meditate. :)
'A little waiting would only heighten the suspense.' What suspense? This seems a very leisurely paced scene. I would trim it down. Some of this stuff could be very important (He's a crystalheart! :)) but really it's just a whole page about him getting dressed.
Seems a weird speech for him to be making. They are in the middle of their voyage, wouldn't they have already had this discussion?
Some more good characters, but you're telling me too much about them and introducing too many at once. Leave the less important characters in the background and emphasize the important ones. Don't tell what you show and visa versa, especially in the same scene.
Like this line from before: 'He was a man of His Lordship's Navy at all times it seemed.' I already got that he is formal from his actions, so I don't need you to tell me.
"That mountain is floating in the sky." Wow, took him awhile to figure that out, huh?
Overall Impression:
Good writing, good world and good descriptions but it was harder for me to into because you are giving us far too much (characters and setting discription) without a lot of conflict or action. Everything is going exactly according to plan until finally at the very end when we got a floating island. I would try to cut some of the fluff and telling details and get to real conflict and use that as your hook. Maybe even start with him wondering where that freaky floating island came from and feeling conflicted because that his God-King did not prepare him for it. So to sum up, it is a lot of really good stuff, just far too much of it.
Good work and good luck :)
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Wow, thank you guys for the excellent feedback. I'll take it all into consideration on my next revision. There's some excellent advice and I intend to take a lot of it!
I'm glad you all appear to be intrigued by the King and the gem in Aric's chest. Clearly those things play a huge role in the novel and you'll learn more as time goes on.
RE: the floating island ahead. I admit that I never sat down and did the math to figure out height, distance, and time it would take to get there. :-[ The image I wanted to conjure is that they see this mountain peak WAY up in the sky, really far away. At first they think it's a mountain rising from the water. But upon closer examination, they see it has no base. It's just a floating peak. Any thoughts on how this might manifest in "real life"? ie, How would it look to approach something like that from really far off?
Thanks again
J
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quick thought: just mention that the water is really misty today, or there is a low fog.
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quick thought: just mention that the water is really misty today, or there is a low fog.
That might just work. And it ties into something I have coming in chapter 3.
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Any thoughts on how this might manifest in "real life"? ie, How would it look to approach something like that from really far off?
Thanks again
J
It would throw one heck of a shadow! From really far off, with the curvature of the earth, they wouldn't know that it wasn't floating until they got within say... depending on how high up it was... 60-80 miles? Avg 10 mph, they would still be out 6-8 days or so. Having that much landmass out there on it's own would probably generate it's own weather as well. Wreathed in clouds and such. But underneath, it might be in perpetual gloom, and that would effect water currents and sea life. Might have constant mist where warm water meets the cold, shadowed water. Well, just a few thoughts. Hope it helps. ;D
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A lot of comments on the prologue being too passive, it worked for me because of your use of languish. It could uses some toning down in some sense, maybe having more action in the first page (just having the narrator do something is all), but over all I really liked it.
I would've liked to have seen Aric's (is it pronounced Erik?) audience with the King revealed through uses of external dialog rather than some much internal looking back.
I don't know how many people on the ship had armor, but if it were any significant number, then it would be a bad idea because of salt water exposure.
There is a strong sense of negative uses of tension (the narrator with holding information from the reader). I find that a little irritating (that has nothing to do with your writing but dangle a carrot in front of a horse while always keeping it out of reach will get it mad too).
If Shkat is a replacement for a certain four letter English word that starts with the same sound, then I'd prefer to have a spade called a spade...
The fact that the meeting with the ship's captains didn't last more than a page and a half made me very glad...for a moment I thought you were going to hit me hard with some blatant info dumping :P
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Oh good, I can actually start a story from the beginning :P
What Worked For Me:
* You've got really good, clean prose. You obviously have a good handle of the language and don't have issues with run-on sentences.
* You also have a gift for punchy last lines - the last line of the prologue and of chapter 1 were very good.
* You do a good job sneaking in Aric's thoughts. I particularly liked his comment about how he could "blame his
interrupted practice on the intruder" as well as when he noted Thomes reaction to finding land.
* I like that you've sketched out a dynamic between characters other than the main character (i.e. Pellis and Berart).
* While you did introduce a lot of characters, I did think you did a good job as to describing each just enough so I had a vague mental picture even after one chapter. (One exception was that both Derrick and Laudney share the "straight-laced navy man") mental image at the moment.
Some Points:
* Might want to try semicolons for the connected sentences in the first part of the prologue - you use them later on but the first part might benefit from that as well.
* Use of the "Oh!" exclamation twice in close succession in the prologue made me blink a bit.
* Granted medieval astronomy can be advanced - I'm assuming this is a medieval-style fantasy so if I'm wrong forgive me - but while they might know of planets, would even an archmage know of gas giants?
* The prologue was well written, but while it started out on a personal level which drew me in, the farther outward the narrator flew, the wider his view became, the more detached I too became as a reader. By the time it reached the comet, it began to feel to me like too much exposition.
* "Even with daily practice, it was hard to focus on "the moment" and not get distracted by outside happenings or thinking of other items of business." - this statement struck me as a bit vague. "happenings" "items of business" etc.
* "There was only one soft lamp lit, but he was already adjusted to the darkness of the cabin." - if he had his eyes closed for a substantial amount of time, he'd be adjusted to darkness, but not "of the cabin" I think.
* "He would bring them His glory." - a bit of an ambiguous pronoun there, easily clarified by context but still something that might put a speed bump for the reader.
* "Laudney spoke long and privately with the man" - I was a bit confused here if "the man" was the sailor in the crows nest or Derrick.
* "Minutes later, Aric stood at the ship's bow next to Admiral Laudney and lifted a spyglass to hie eye. Berart and Pellis stood with them, waiting." -> "Finally, Laudney joined Aric at the bow, and handed him a spyglass." I think there might be a tense inconsistency here? (aside from the hie typo :) )
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Overall, very enjoyable J ^_^
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Man, this writing group thing rocks. All of th feedback so far has been great. Thank you. And thank you for your kind words as well. :)
Several of the items that have been mentioned are things that I address much more directly in the next few chapters. I'll comment on them once I've shared those with you down the road. :)
@ maxonennis: In my head I pronounce Aric's name as "AR-ic", which sounds similar to how the word "arc" sounds. Although "Erik" or "Eric" is another perfectly suitable version, I suppose.
Regarding adding some conflict in chapter 1. @ Frog... you made an excellent point. I'm such a stickler for adding conflict in my reviews of other people's work that it's nice to see my medicine fed back to me. ;-) One of the ideas I had this afternoon as I thought about your feedback was: what if that meeting Aric has with the other captains doesn't go well? Instead of it just being a monthly "Ra, Ra, Go Team!" meeting, it actually shows deep cracks and resentment toward him and this quest? I mean, they've been at sea for NINE months and people are wondering if these damn islands even exist. Do you think that might add some tension? It certainly would make life harder for Aric, and I am ALL about making his life rough. (Poor guy. Just wait until ch 8) Then, perhaps, right on cue, they find land, and Aric's point of trusting the King seems almost divine. Thoughts?
@ Pipe.... *bows to you* You found a typo. I swear I spell checked that thing ten times and had a second person look at it too. Some things just slip past I guess. :)
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Funny you should ask about the crews tension for added conflict, because that was pretty much exactly what I was thinking while reading it. "There's going to be a mutiny.".....Now, obviously it doesn't have to be a mutiny, but I think a bit of tension on that long of a travel, especially when the destination is so vague, would be expected. Even if they have faith in the God-King.
Now for my opinions on it. I really liked it. I wasn't so sure about it for the first couple of pages of the prologue. Mostly because of the passiveness. I liked the start, with the talk of the flying, because I love flying in my dreams. It's awesome. But then I started to lose interest, up until the narrator looked back at the whole universe and started pointing out the galaxies that mattered. I think I became interested in it at that point because the style really started to show. From there until the end, it was good. And I loved that last line.
And I really don't have anything to say about Chapter 1. It was good. And I didn't even really notice problems with the speech until I read the feedback already given. Now I can see that, and I agree with the others that that should be fixed a bit, with this being the ninth meeting and all.
And I may be dense or something, but for some reason, it didn't occur to me that the mountain was floating until Laudney said it was...And then I'm like "Oh! That's cool!"....And I feel really lame for not figuring it out earlier, but I was thinking the rest of the mountain was invisible or something. The base was invisible and they would run ashore on invisible land at some point....Which I thought would be cool, but a floating mountain is pretty sweet too.
Yeah, so. I really liked it so far. I want to read more. Good job!
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One more thing and then I'll leave you alone, your font left me squinting for a few hours. It really hurt my eyes, and I have good eyes, :o see.
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One more thing and then I'll leave you alone, your font left me squinting for a few hours. It really hurt my eyes, and I have good eyes, :o see.
Hmm. I just used courier new. Double spaced. 10 pt.
Did anybody else have trouble? It works well for me, but I can export differenly next time.
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Well a lot of people have already stated many of the major points to consider for revision or elaboration like passive sentences and what have you so I'll keep this brief.
Military's rely on formality and discipline so sloppy dress would be inexcusable regardless of the amount of time at sea. In fact British colonials would intentionally dress up to go to dinner (even if they were eating by themselves) precisely to keep up morale.
On that note Why would Aric even think that he wouldn't want "even the admiral" to see him dressed casually rather than especially him? He is supposed to be the leader while they are at sea I assume and you don't want your superior (even a temporary one) or your underlings to see you at anything less than your best.
Beyond that little sticking point this is shaping up quite well.
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One more thing and then I'll leave you alone, your font left me squinting for a few hours. It really hurt my eyes, and I have good eyes, :o see.
Hmm. I just used courier new. Double spaced. 10 pt.
Did anybody else have trouble? It works well for me, but I can export differenly next time.
I think it is the 10 point, I usually read in 12 point (it makes the letter bolder and not as faint).
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It would throw one heck of a shadow! From really far off, with the curvature of the earth, they wouldn't know that it wasn't floating until they got within say... depending on how high up it was... 60-80 miles? Avg 10 mph, they would still be out 6-8 days or so.
I stand corrected. Gogo science man!! :D
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Sorry, I'm a big Geek! ;D
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[It would throw one heck of a shadow! From really far off, with the curvature of the earth, they wouldn't know that it wasn't floating until they got within say... depending on how high up it was... 60-80 miles? Avg 10 mph, they would still be out 6-8 days or so.
I assume you meant 6-8 hours, not 6-8 days, geeky science man.
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I'm thinking he actually meant an average of 10 miles per day, instead of hour.....
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I think I need to seriously research how fast a fleet of ships can sail in a given period of time!!
For now though, just go with it folks. ;-)
J
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I'm thinking he actually meant an average of 10 miles per day, instead of hour.....
Yes! That was it. Though I'm not sure exactly how that transfers into nautical miles either.
I think I need to seriously research how fast a fleet of ships can sail in a given period of time!!
This is one of the reasons all my stories take place on the mainland, somewhere.
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If Shkat is a replacement for a certain four letter English word that starts with the same sound, then I'd prefer to have a spade called a spade...
Does anybody else have any thoughts regarding this? Yes, "shkat" was intended to be a replacement for sh**, and is Aric's way of using it. I guess I could just call it what it is, but generally in sci-fi/fantasy, I see a lot of authors use replacements for cuss words.
It works really well in Battlestar Galactica, anyway! Then again, using the work "frak" is just a really creative way to get around using swear words on TV.
I intend to use more cuss words in later chapters because the characters would likely use them. But I don't want to pull the reader too far out of the world to do it.
What do you think?
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If Shkat is a replacement for a certain four letter English word that starts with the same sound, then I'd prefer to have a spade called a spade...
Does anybody else have any thoughts regarding this? Yes, "shkat" was intended to be a replacement for sh**, and is Aric's way of using it. I guess I could just call it what it is, but generally in sci-fi/fantasy, I see a lot of authors use replacements for cuss words.
It works really well in Battlestar Galactica, anyway! Then again, using the work "frak" is just a really creative way to get around using swear words on TV.
I intend to use more cuss words in later chapters because the characters would likely use them. But I don't want to pull the reader too far out of the world to do it.
What do you think?
What really threw me off was that you used a one-for-one replacement in a modern phrase. If it hadn't been a common phrase used in "our world", then the replacement wouldn't have bothered me.
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Hmmm. I see. You mean because I used the term "sh**-eating grin" and put "shkat" in there, it didn't work.
Would it have bothered you (or anybody else) if Aric was walking along, stubbed his toe and yelled "Ah, shkat! That hurt!"
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If the words are that close, then readers will probably be put off by it. (Either because they are offended by the real-world word or because they would prefer you to just use the real word.)
If you were to do phrases, like WoT's "blood and bloody ashes", which are not obvious spin-offs of real-world phrases then the swearing will flow much more naturally.
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This is probably the biggest reason I didn't use cursing in my latest manuscript, because it didn't feel right. There are numerous essays about cursing in fantasy, and to sum them up: What the author is trying to do is translate a different language into english (or whatever language you are using), and so there by if something is a direct one-for-one translation, why use the english translation instead?
Now, I'm not saying that you should do this, but I think culturally relevant and derived curses are more effective if you don't want to uses real ones as jjb has said.
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Regarding adding some conflict in chapter 1. @ Frog... you made an excellent point. I'm such a stickler for adding conflict in my reviews of other people's work that it's nice to see my medicine fed back to me. ;-) One of the ideas I had this afternoon as I thought about your feedback was: what if that meeting Aric has with the other captains doesn't go well? Instead of it just being a monthly "Ra, Ra, Go Team!" meeting, it actually shows deep cracks and resentment toward him and this quest? I mean, they've been at sea for NINE months and people are wondering if these damn islands even exist. Do you think that might add some tension? It certainly would make life harder for Aric, and I am ALL about making his life rough. (Poor guy. Just wait until ch 8) Then, perhaps, right on cue, they find land, and Aric's point of trusting the King seems almost divine. Thoughts?
Sorry it took me so long to get back to you on this, but yes. That would be some conflict that would make a lot of since to me if you found a way to bring it out more. Go for it!
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The important stuff has already been said, so I'll just add a few things here and there, jumping wildly back and forth through the text as they occur to me:
The floating mountain was horribly obvious, and I actually expected the dialogue to reveal that it wasn't floating after all.
The speech felt like an unnecessary infodump, and raised the question in what formation exactly this fleet was travelling for 140 captains to be able to assemble on the flag ship. They can't very well park next to each other and jump from ship to ship, so they'd have to come by boat, which should take quite some time.
The prologue made me wonder as to the significance of the mage. It felt a bit like two seperate stories arbitrarily combined (albeit both well written). But I don't particularly like first person anyway... ;)
You left the armour bits in brackets, I can at least supply the name of the "leg armour", those are greaves. You'd probably also have a gambeson under the armour, to protect against blunt trauma.
I also found another typo: "His smile held a wide smile."
Anyways, at the moment I have absolutely no idea where this story is going but I'd like to find out, so you've definitely done a lot more right than you've done wrong. ;D
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Okay, my first review on the site...I should point out a couple things...One, I comment on every single thought that comes into my head...primarily because I want to give the writer as much feedback as possible so they can choose what they want (if anything) to use...so PLEASE don't feel discouraged about the number of comments...I just want to make sure I don't cheat you...you worked hard to write it, so I owe it to you to work hard to review it...Two, I have not read any of the comments on this post...I wanted to just review it without being guided by other reviews...after this one, I will try to keep up with the discussion thread... but you get to be my first, Jason...sorry :)
On to the feedback:
PROLOGUE
1. In the Prologue, you have the character refer to his/her experience as "child-like"...for me, this type of description requires an outside perspective the character is not capable of...
2. A bit later, you use the sentence, "I skip along the treetops, dancing from here to there..." - Honestly, I don't know that you really want the reader seeing your character as so child-like...I would re-think this characterization...this is the character the reader is receiving ALL of their information/story from...I think it is okay for the character/narrator to remember a connection to his child-hood, and it is endearing for a character to be child-like at times (like Zedd in Goodkind's books), but if we are not given enough of an opportunity to get to know the character's maturity and wisdom at-length, then a powerful child-like trait will become the identifying and overriding feature of character.
3. The perspective of your Prologue is not true first person...I believe it is second person (because you address the reader as a member of the conversation)...quick notes about second person...it is VERY risky...readers want to be voyeuristic...they don't want to be part of the story, they want to watch it...I would encourage you to consider how the Prologue would be different if you wrote it in true first person...if the narrator/character had NO knowledge of the reader....???
4. This item is just an observation - not really a criticism...If you are targeting a fantasy/sci-fi audience, the book will be approached by a specific audience with specific expectations...and the Prologue is the first part they will read...to this point, the feel of the Prologue isn't making me think of your target genre...using terms like "hyperbole" (literary term in a literary work is hard to do) seem like they don't fit...also, the term "gas giant" seems to miss the feel...often, fantasy is associated with Medieval level tech/knowledge...did they know stars were gas giants at the time?)
5. At one point, you use the description "countless, countless..." - double words that do not add to a quantitative description should be avoided (for example, "very, very..." communicates a higher level of measurement than "very..." but "countless, countless..." does not)
6. A note about the end of the Prologue...it makes me expect to read the first chapter in first person, as if I AM Aric...then when we switch to third-person limited, I feel like I'm reading the wrong thing...
CHAPTER 1
1. At one point, you wrote "The green of his eyes shined in the dark; tiny sources of light on their own." the last part, tiny sources of light on their own, is not needed...you do a good job of showing us with "the green of his eyes shined in the dark..."
2. After that, you wrote: "There was a knock at the door. Good, he thought. He could blame his
interrupted practice on the intruder rather than on his own inability to
properly concentrate." ----- What would this look like if you used the italics method to re-write and internalize this part...it is a great opportunity to help us get to know Aric...
3. A general note...a few times you use phrases like "this took a couple of minutes" or "Minutes later..."...instead of telling the reader about the passage of time, experiment with different ways to give them a sense of the passage of time...sometimes this can be done by mentioning something like a candle in the cabin, then noting it is burned half-way when he is done dressing...sometimes it can be done by the way the story is structured (pace of the writing/reading...a break in chapters...etc.)...a writing professor once told me you don't have to include everything in the story...just make sure the reader gets the right "sense of it"...if that is conveyed, then you've done your job.
4. I feel like the entire dressing "scene" can be reduced to a paragraph...perhaps more to discuss the ceremonial sword issue...but that's about it. Covering each step in so much depth slows the pace of the chapter - something you don't want to do too much of early on in the novel when you're trying to draw the reader in...
5. I have to mention this because it is exactly what I do in my writing! you write: "One hundred and forty ships, and he, the King's personal Ambassador, would carry His Lordship's message and vision to the natives of the Islands." ------------- Just use either message or vision, but not both...the same point is conveyed to the reader, but the statement is more powerful and clean.
6. Excellent sentence!!!..."Aric knew he stood a striking figure in this armor." ---- Maybe even make it "his armor." The sentence is a powerful way to convey Aric's arrogance to the reader (if that is what you're going for) without telling the reader he is arrogant.
7. Okay...at some point in this chapter, I think you changed Aric's character on me...maybe a bit more of what is later in the chapter should be covered earlier??? not sure...but the sense I got in the first half of Aric (perfectionist navy man, military minded, and arrogant) is much different than the sense in the second half of Aric (out of place civilian in a naval situation, strong desires related to showing his worth as opposed to already feeling worthy, etc.).
8. When Thomes spoke up, you said Aric thought it was bold. I would say you need to do a bit more to show the atmosphere is tense or one of obedience so that I "feel" that Thomes is being bold as opposed to him telling me...then, you can skip telling me it is bold and have Aric's inner admiration of the man contrast the reader's sense of apprehension that this man did that (the reader would expect repercussions but get admiration...)
9. The section that begins, "Suddenly, there was a deep..." and goes until the break has an excellent pace! read this section and compare it to the rest of the chapter...the whole thing doesn't have to be the same pace, but it is beneficial to note the difference and think of why it feels different...
10. After the break, you tell us what happened to the boy...this was not a question I was asking and it actually made me stop and go, "wait...what boy?"...if it doesn't add to the story (does the boy matter?), cut it.
11. At one point, you tell us about Berart and Pellis' relationship (they are closer than they appear...?)...I would suggest you let us figure this out for ourselves as we observe the characters interacting throughout the novel rather than tell us...if they will not interact enough for us to figure it out, do we really need to know, anyway?
OVERALL IMPRESSION
I'm in...I want to know about the island, I want to see how Aric's character interacts with a crew that seems doomed to take a position contrary to his goals, and I want to see Aric exploring the island...
I don't really feel like I know Aric enough, yet...there is some conflicting character traits in the chapter (maybe)...this could simply be because it is one chapter in...but it feels like you started writing with one character in mind and that character evolved into a different character by the end of the chapter....which is something I accidentally do as well...the challenge is deciding which one you want Aric to be and then re-writing the chapter to show THAT character consistently throughout.
Good job!!! (Sorry about the length of the review...)
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I continue to be humbled by everyon'e feedback. Thank you very much for all of it. I'm planning to consider every suggestion on my next re-write of these opening chapters.
Two things that have come up a lot which I'd like to respond to:
1. The Prologue was written in that "First Person Present" (as Reaves called it) for very specific reasons related to the story. Yes, the narrator is talking to YOU, the reader. (S)he'll do that a lot more in coming chapters. (Chapter 4 is the next time you'll see it). Eventually, the reasons behind this will be revealed, and it actually ties to one of the major themes of the book. Also, for terms like "gas giants", "nebulas", and "galaxies"... yes, that particular character is well aware of those terms. By the end of part 1, you'll see why.
2. Aric seems to have conflicting personalities. That's probably because his character has changed so much. I have a much stronger feeling for who he is now (25,000 words into it, finally!), so these earlier chapters might feel awkward at points. I plan to revise chapters 2 and 3 before submitting them to you, so hopefully he'll be a little more crystalized by then.
Thanks again!
J
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The floating mountain was horribly obvious, and I actually expected the dialogue to reveal that it wasn't floating after all.
Thank you for this feedback. May I ask what specifically "gave it away" that it was floating? I'd like for it to be a suprise at the very end of the chapter. Any tips or insight on what I could revise to make this happen would be greatly appreciated.
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"Well that's the interesting thing," Laudney said, coming up right beside Aric. "There's nothing to be seen on the horizon." He directed Aric's spyglass to angle upwards to a point somewhere above the horizon line. "Look there."
That passage pretty much made it obvious, I think. I might not have known that it was floating, but the fact that he couldn't see the mountain on the horizon and then raised the spyglass at least made me think "so is it floating, or what?" - the following dialogue then reinforces the impression and makes it seem as though Aric were a tad slow on the uptake. :)
Someone suggested that fog could obscure the lower part of the mountain, that might work. Or, what just occured to me: the upper part would be visible above the horizon long before the lower part, right? You could have them see that, let Aric look through his spyglass at the top of the mountain as the fleet moves towards it, more of the mountain becomes visible, he moves the glass down to see how large the mountain really is and then sees that the expected lower part is in fact missing.
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I see
Yeah, good idea. The fog idea was a good one and will probably help here. I'll give it a shot
J
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I had two at odds thoughts while reading the prologue.
1. wow this is really well written and quite descriptive
2. but for some reason I don't care.
It was as if the flying away from the body of the mage bored me, but approaching the body of Aric finally began to intrigue me. I did love the fact that it began with one person, moved away as far as possible, and then zoomed down upon a different individual.
Overall though it felt wordy, passive, and not until you begin to descend upon Aric was I remotely engaged.
Question: Are there other instances of first person viewpoints where you actually ask questions to the reader again? If so this may tie in quiet nicely, if not it may seem out of place and just not a good fit for the rest of the novel.
The scene where Aric is getting dressed. The Gem seems important and intriguing, getting dressed does not. I know the character is putting on armor, but frankly he is still just getting dressed. Perhaps you dragged this out to emphasize the fact that he is making everyone up on deck wait so he can be fashionably late, but just saying that he is dragging it out would suffice.
If I ever was in a bookstore and a writer began the first chapter of his book by telling me that the character got out of bed, put on his underwear, followed by his socks, then he pulled up and buttoned his pants before pulling his shirt on and tucking it in. Sitting down he pulled on each sock, then tied his tie.
Well I would put the book down. Perhaps describe the pieces of armor you feel are important, (the ornate chest piece and the bit about the gem) and put the rest of the gear on off page.
The king interests me, how he rules interests me, the fact that no one ever gets to see him intersets me, his suggested or implied divinity interests me. I hope I get to learn more of this culture.
The 140 ships being mentioned three times in the span of a few sentences: my first thought was that he's going to tell me he started with 140 ships and now due to rough travels, pirates, and scurvy the fleet is down to 7. But then you just moved on. What was the purpose of mentioning it so many times if all you were doing is telling there were 140 of them? I got that with the first telling. (and damn that is a lot of ships... you going to colonize these islands or invade?)
WHAT HAPPENED IN THE NINE MONTH PRIOR ON THE VOYAGE? Did anything interesting happen? Did Aric really just meditate everyday and give a speech once a month. Surely there was some hardship? Some political intrigue? Maybe there wasn't, perhaps this was the most boring, uneventful 9 month voyage ever (boggle), but I'm curious one way or the other.
Why do they call it the Endless Sea if they believe the world is round? Endless implies that either: 1. you will sail forever and never find anything. Or 2. You will drop off the world at the end. Doesn't it seem that if they had discovered that you would simply circumvent the globe by traversing it that they would have renamed it something else? (this point is probably really nitpicking and should most likely be ignored).
I know its just my crude mind, but everytime I read Pellis I thought Penis.... I know I'm hopless and stupid.
How are they going to get up to the mountain? Tell me already.
Summary: The prologue was beautifully written, but bored me. It reminded me of one of those chapters where for some reason the author feels he must describe the scene to me in agonizing detail for 6 paragraphs before he gets to the good part. I usually find myself skipping such over-reaching descriptions, much as I had the urge to do to the first half of the prologue.
The culture you are creating intrigues me, however the gem in his chest seems a little marvel superhero ish. I am assuming it is a highly important part of the story however, so entirely necessary. To be honest if this was a book I was skimming to decide if I want to keep reading, the answer so far is not really. Something exciting better happen soon, or more emotional pull needs to occur to keep me wanting to turn the page.
The actual writing flows nicely, and I never found myself stopping to try to figure out what you were trying to say, or saying myself, well that just doesn't flow.
Hope my rambling thoughts help in any small way, and that I wasn't to negative. (This is my first critique of anyones wirting other than my own in a long time. It has made me fearful of submitting my own work. :P
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Revast - Thank you very much for your feedback. I found it to be very clear and helpful.
Seeing as every single one of you was bored to tears over the opening part of the prologue, I'll pay special attention to that when I revise next. ;-)
Question: Are there other instances of first person viewpoints where you actually ask questions to the reader again? If so this may tie in quiet nicely, if not it may seem out of place and just not a good fit for the rest of the novel.
Yes, there are other chapters where this narrator directly addresses the reader.
(and damn that is a lot of ships... you going to colonize these islands or invade?)
Glad you asked. You'll learn more in chapter 2.
WHAT HAPPENED IN THE NINE MONTH PRIOR ON THE VOYAGE? Did anything interesting happen? Did Aric really just meditate everyday and give a speech once a month. Surely there was some hardship? Some political intrigue? Maybe there wasn't, perhaps this was the most boring, uneventful 9 month voyage ever (boggle), but I'm curious one way or the other.
LOL!!! One really helpful suggestion earlier from this group was that I needed a stronger sense of conflict in chapter 1. To address this, I plan to make that "meeting" that Aric has into a bitch-fest for the other captains. In that revised scene I'll hint at other events.
For the most part, however, there isn't really much for Aric to do. He's probably fawned over, made comfortable, and told not to lift a finger. Heck maybe he took up meditation only because it was something NEW to do. Aric isn't the sort of guy to be interested in something like that on his own. (More on that in future chapters)
Why do they call it the Endless Sea if they believe the world is round?
It's just a name that implies the vastness of the ocean. It literally encompasses the entire globe - a World Sea - except for one continent in the middle. More in chapter 2.
I know its just my crude mind, but everytime I read Pellis I thought Penis.... I know I'm hopless and stupid.
There's some truth to it. I didn't choose that name consciously for that reason, of course, but the character is pretty wishy-washy and wimpy. I wanted a name that subtly implied that. He was probably called a penis a lot as a kid in school. ;-)
How are they going to get up to the mountain? Tell me already.
Chapter 2 addresses this. And for what it's worth... Aric is asking the same thing!
Hope my rambling thoughts help in any small way, and that I wasn't to negative. (This is my first critique of anyones wirting other than my own in a long time. It has made me fearful of submitting my own work.
It wasn't negative at all! Thank you for the fair and honest feedback If I had wanted nothing but praise, I would have showed it to my Mom. :)
Keep it coming if you think of more
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If I had wanted nothing but praise, I would have showed it to my Mom.
Hehe...THAT should go into our signatures...
"If all I wanted was praise, I would have had my mom read it...and you sure ain't my momma..."
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Better late than never, right? ;) Here goes...
I assume you sent me the unrevised version of the prologue and Ch. 1, and everyone else has pretty much already covered the issue with holding the reader's interest... but have you thought about holding the interest of the reader by simply addressing us more? For example, your narrator is an Archmage. Perhaps he's training us, the audience, using the dream as a catalyst. That way, there's some purpose behind mentioning all those features of the land around him, and the journey into space. Show us the comet with more emphasis (I remember reading that part and not really taking much note of it, but if it's important we shouldn't be allowed to simply skip over it), and use IT to begin your story. Anyway, just a thought, and if you've already got a revision you're happy with, feel free to ignore!
On another note, you describe things very well. I could clearly picture the scenes in my mind as I read, and not every author can do that for me.
A minor point of consistency... When Aric is meditating in the cabin, we're given the impression that it's dark: there's only one lamp lit, and when he opens his eyes, you say they're already adjusted to the dark. But on the next page, when he's dressing for the "audience", he mentions light coming in through the large windows. Were they covered with curtains before? And if so, when were they pulled back? Or was it night while he was meditating and the sun is just now rising (seems unlikely, considering the amount of coordination involved to get everyone of importance to the flag ship at the same time)?
Also it strikes me as odd that Aric, being the so very important Ambassador, and speaker for the God-King, would stoop to putting on his own armor. If there is some warrior rhetoric or ideal behind that, or he simply has too much reverence for a gift from his king to let inferior persons touch it, you should let us know.
Overall, good read! Especially when we get to Aric's POV.