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Local Authors => Brandon Sanderson => Topic started by: Dangerbutton on September 26, 2008, 06:11:55 PM

Title: Characterization in Mistborn
Post by: Dangerbutton on September 26, 2008, 06:11:55 PM
For a school assignment, I need to bring an excerpt from a book that is a good example of characterization, particularly in physical appearance. I want to get something from Mistborn (or Well of Ascension), because they are just such great books and more people need to know about them. Unfortunately, I've lent my books out to a friend, and the assignment is due Monday.
So, I was wondering if anyone here could help me out with some good examples of characterization in Mistborn or Well of Ascension. Ah, heck, Elantris was good, too, so anything from that will work too. I'm looking for anywhere from 1 to 3 or 4 paragraphs in length.
Title: Re: Characterization in Mistborn
Post by: darxbane on September 26, 2008, 06:15:37 PM
I believe Chapter 1 of Final Empire is on Brandon's website, and that has a pretty good description of Vin. 
Title: Re: Characterization in Mistborn
Post by: VegasDev on September 26, 2008, 07:32:25 PM
There's good news and bad news.

The good news is that there are plenty of locations you can get hold of Brandon's books even if you lent yours out (library, bookstore, etc. as well as Mistborn 1 floating around in PDF form which might be downloaded directly from TOR).

The bad news is that he doesn't go into great detail of the characters appearance, but instead delves into their thoughts and feelings while they experience the plot.

Physical descriptions are mentioned in passing fashion compared to other books, but this allows the reader to fill in the gaps. Your best desription might be of Elend once he begins wearing his white suit. I believe it talks about buttons, a cape, medals, a crown and his hair.
Title: Re: Characterization in Mistborn
Post by: VegasDev on September 26, 2008, 07:38:07 PM
Case in point, this is Vin's description in chapter 1:

She wore a simple white buttoned shirt and a pair of overalls. Indeed, she was hardly enticing; scrawny with a youthful face, she supposedly didn’t even look her sixteen years.
Title: Re: Characterization in Mistborn
Post by: Wielder on September 26, 2008, 07:38:48 PM
There's good news and bad news.

The good news is that there are plenty of locations you can get hold of Brandon's books even if you lent yours out (library, bookstore, etc. as well as Mistborn 1 floating around in PDF form which might be downloaded directly from TOR).

The bad news is that he doesn't go into great detail of the characters appearance, but instead delves into their thoughts and feelings while they experience the plot.

Physical descriptions are mentioned in passing fashion compared to other books, but this allows the reader to fill in the gaps. Your best desription might be of Elend once he begins wearing his white suit. I believe it talks about buttons, a cape, medals, a crown and his hair.

The thoughts are considered characterization.  That first chapter where Vin is in her little hiding place has some of the most excellent characterization I have read.  Even the voice of her brother whispering to her can be considered her own characterization since those words molded her character so much.

Danger, if you would like me to email you a PDF version of MB1, I'd be more then happy to.  Toss me a PM with your email.  Or you can just go look on the website like Darxbane mentioned.
Title: Re: Characterization in Mistborn
Post by: VegasDev on September 26, 2008, 08:27:10 PM
The thoughts are considered characterization.

Yeah, I stated as much, however my post was in reference to the OPs request for 'particularly in physical appearance'.
Title: Re: Characterization in Mistborn
Post by: Wielder on September 26, 2008, 11:29:58 PM
The thoughts are considered characterization.

Yeah, I stated as much, however my post was in reference to the OPs request for 'particularly in physical appearance'.

Good call.  I need some sleep before I start posting things on these forums.  Oof.  That or some pewter burning. 

Anyone figured out how to get the magic alomancer pill yet?
Title: Re: Characterization in Mistborn
Post by: Qarlin on September 27, 2008, 09:52:06 AM
<shakes head sadly>
Title: Re: Characterization in Mistborn
Post by: Wielder on September 27, 2008, 04:31:14 PM
POSSIBLE SPOILER WARNING!

Oh, how I love message boards!

I think there is more to the first chapter then meets the eye.  I really don't believe physical description is just plainly telling people what the character is wearing or what their skin/eyes/hair/eyes with laser canons look like.  I personally get a little bored when an author goes into a full page description of a characters outer appearance (*cough* The Wheel of Time *cough*--not that I didn't like all his descriptions...some of them were a bit overboard though.   Especially when you only see the character like three times in the series.)

Hope some of the stuff below is useful Danger.  If you want to use any of those passages, remember to use your own words to describe them. :p

I decided to take a bit of a break from working to bring you some of the things that I would refer to as being physical character description without bogging down the reader with a snowpeak of information:

(I am copying the text from Tor's PDF file, so they will appear in a similar fashion when I quote them.)

Quote
Vin didn’t let hatred or rebellion show in her eyes. She
simply looked down, giving Camon what he expected to see.
There were other ways to be strong. That lesson she had
learned on her own.
(Ch1, pg 21)

Sanderson essentially reveals her resigned stance in this passage.  She just looks down, but behind that blank look that she probably had, the 'hatred and rebellion' fought to escape. 

Quote
Just another bruise. She was strong enough to deal with it.
She’d done so before.
(Ch1, pg 21)

Bruises--shes a tough girl, this Vin.  By simply stating 'she'd done so before' reveals that there are quite a lot of other bruises visible in her flesh.  He didn't need to tell you that her skin was in various shades of white, blue, and purple to get the point across.

Quote
She looked up at Camon, tasting
blood on her lip. She must have let some of her confidence
show, because he glanced at her out of the corner of his eye,
and his expression darkened.
(Ch1, pg 21...again)

The bleeding lip obviously here, but that bit mentioning Vin's confidence shows show much about her character without having to go into a great deal of detail on what she actually looked like exactly.  You know that the defiance is crawling out of her at this point, and I think you, as the reader can put the pieces together.

Here's the passage that Vegas referred to:
Quote
Theron eyed Vin, obviously noting her bloodied lip. She
glanced away. Theron’s eyes lingered on her, however, running
down the length of her body. She wore a simple white
buttoned shirt and a pair of overalls. Indeed, she was hardly
enticing; scrawny with a youthful face, she supposedly didn’t
even look her sixteen years. Some men preferred such
women, however.
(Ch1, pg 23)

This is obviously the most straight forward physical description of Vin.  Once again, the bloodied lip shows up again.  Sanderson does a job of making sure the reader knows that this is a very resilient character.  Within the first few pages you know that Vin is constantly suffering, but you can see how steadfast she is through some of these passages.  They all paint a picture of the character.

Quote
She kept to
the shadows, as usual;
(Ch2, pg 33)

The fact that she is hermit-like has influence on how you re-create the character in your mind.

Quote
Vin tried her best to remain invisible.
(Ch2, pg 34)

See the above comment...

Quote
Vin sighed, stretching slightly. She’d have more bruises. At
least they won’t be visible. Now that the bruises Camon had
given her face were finally gone, Sazed had warned her to be
careful. Makeup could only cover so much, and she would
have to look like a “proper” young noblewoman if she were
going to infiltrate the court.
(Ch 9, pg 174)

This is much further in the book, but it shows how Vin is changing. 

Note to self: I just skimmed through some pages quickly and found these ones.  There is so much more then this.  Danger, those page numbers are where I found those quotes in the version I sent you as well.  Should be easy enough to find.   

Have fun!

P.S. - Danger, when Vin meets Elend, I am sure there is some description of her from his point of view.  I know there are points where Kel just watches her as well, so I am sure you have tons of stuff to grab from.
Title: Re: Characterization in Mistborn
Post by: Miriel on September 27, 2008, 05:01:44 PM
You could also look for description of things other than main characters.  I remember the koloss being physically described pretty vividly.
Title: Re: Characterization in Mistborn
Post by: Wielder on September 27, 2008, 05:08:00 PM
You could also look for description of things other than main characters.  I remember the koloss being physically described pretty vividly.

Oh yes!  Great idea.  Also, I guess the descriptions of Vin aren't the only ones in the book!  ;D  There are great descriptions of all the characters.  I personally couldn't stop reading about Kel after I read the prologue.  The smile hooked me.
Title: Re: Characterization in Mistborn
Post by: Dangerbutton on September 28, 2008, 02:48:14 AM
wow, thanks for all of the ideas, everyone, it was a big help.
Wielder, I'm not sure if the teacher wanted me to bring an example of characterization in just one spot, or if it is okay to bring several short excerpts of characterization. I'm going to check with my teacher, and if I get the okay, I think I'll use that string of passages about Vin that you posted. They are excellent. Thanks!
Title: Re: Characterization in Mistborn
Post by: Dangerbutton on September 28, 2008, 02:50:00 AM
also, I like the idea of bringing an excerpt describing the Koloss, but as I said, I don't have my copy of WoA. Any chance someone could post that description up here? At this point, the library will be closed until I go to my class on monday.... thats what I get for procrastination.... drat!
Title: Re: Characterization in Mistborn
Post by: jjb on September 28, 2008, 09:50:17 AM
Does anybody else here feel weird about helping Dangerbutton "cheat"? Whether he's cheating intentionally or not, we are doing his homework for him when we give him the passages and tell him how it is characterization. I'm not accusing anyone of helping him/her cheat intentionally; I'm just surprised that people actually responded to this.
Title: Re: Characterization in Mistborn
Post by: Dangerbutton on September 28, 2008, 10:44:53 AM
now, I wouldn't necessarily call this cheating. I could have done this on my own, but as I said, I lent my books out to a friend. In my defense, I have actually been searching a great deal through other books, so its not like I'm doing nothing and making you do the work. You're just helping me find something from the best of books.
Title: Re: Characterization in Mistborn
Post by: firstRainbowRose on September 28, 2008, 10:52:51 AM
I don't think it's cheating.  It's not like we're actually writing the report ourselves.  It's more along the lines of telling a librarian the subject you're researching and them giving you the title of books that could help you.  *shrug*

As for the characterization situation, my advise is to also point out the clothing, and the way Vin changes when she wears different clothes.  That's a great example of different characterization, and how certian things can effect the way a character acts.
Title: Re: Characterization in Mistborn
Post by: Wielder on September 28, 2008, 06:20:49 PM
Does anybody else here feel weird about helping Dangerbutton "cheat"? Whether he's cheating intentionally or not, we are doing his homework for him when we give him the passages and tell him how it is characterization. I'm not accusing anyone of helping him/her cheat intentionally; I'm just surprised that people actually responded to this.

I would not consider this cheating at all.  Hes going to use his own words to describe any of the passages I pointed out anyways.  Have you ever bought a pre-owned book at the university and all the most important passages were already highlighted for you?  I'm essentially tossing him my copy of Mistborn so he can read through it.  The things I wrote explaining why I think the passage can be considered characterization was more more two other posters, not for Danger (though, you are welcome to read through them if you are confused, Danger).

Correct me if I'm wrong.

Title: Re: Characterization in Mistborn
Post by: jjb on September 28, 2008, 10:23:43 PM
I guess everybody here just has a looser definition of cheating than mine. If he were asking for suggestions on books with good characterization, then that would be okay, but actually giving him the passages goes a bit too far for me. When I'm writing a paper, my teachers expect me to 1)do the research myself, 2)examine the research to see how it will help in my paper, and 3)expand on it in the actual paper.

Maybe that's just my school and Dangerbutton did say he's looking at other books as well, but if his paper were just about Mistborn then you guys basically did #1 and #2 for him, 2/3 of the assignment. Granted, the teacher can only see #3, but #3 is supposed to show how well you did #1 and #2.

Of course, if the teacher said "Dangerbutton, write a paper about characterization and ask as many people as you like to find examples of characterization for you," then this would be okay, but since he/she probably didn't say that I would call this cheating.

And yes, Wielder, I think having a book with all the main points highlighted would be cheating as well. Not the kind of cheating where you ask someone to summarize the book for you, but the kind of cheating where you didn't do all the work the teacher was expecting of you when he/she gave you the assignment.

Some teachers might not care, but there are others who want you to learn by following all the steps in the process and not by working on only the last step.
Title: Re: Characterization in Mistborn
Post by: dawncawley on September 28, 2008, 11:10:42 PM
Jjb, I believe that if teachers didn't want you to use books that were highlighted already, or that might have notes in the margin, the entire used book industry at colleges would go out of business, and many fewer people would be able to afford their school books. They are expensive, and many have to sell them back at the end of the term to help pay for the next term's books. I understand your point totally, I'm just saying that there is usually some leeway in the research portion of any assignment like this.
Title: Re: Characterization in Mistborn
Post by: jjb on September 29, 2008, 12:08:22 AM
All the used books I've bought weren't written in or highlighted. And the bookstores don't give you much money when you sell them back to them anyway.

But you're right, there is some leeway in these kind of assignments. That's probably why so many people disagree with me. I'm barely on the wrong side of the line while everybody else seems to be right across from me on the other side.
Title: Re: Characterization in Mistborn
Post by: dawncawley on September 29, 2008, 12:39:40 AM
I don't think you are on the "wrong" side of the line Jjb, just the other side. In a case like this I don't think there is a right or wrong, necessarily. It is mostly just what we are used to being able to do, and what our teachers allowed us to do that colors our opinions on this issue. Like I said, I totally understand where you are coming from, my dad held a very similar view point, as did I for much of my high school career. In college is when I got to the gray area, due to some book purchases with the important parts either highlight or noted somehow. :) No hard feelings, right?

I think some very good characterizations are in Elantris as well. I like the part that describes the uncle, I think it was the uncle. Anyway, the one whose house they held their meetings at, if that helps. :)
Title: Re: Characterization in Mistborn
Post by: neiana on September 29, 2008, 01:07:31 AM
All the used books I've bought weren't written in or highlighted. And the bookstores don't give you much money when you sell them back to them anyway.

But you're right, there is some leeway in these kind of assignments. That's probably why so many people disagree with me. I'm barely on the wrong side of the line while everybody else seems to be right across from me on the other side.

First it's called research and it's big biz.  Let's say the OP found an essay on the characterization in Mistborn, then read that essay and quoted from it...  it's not cheating.  It's actually - honestly - OFTEN a required part of the paper.  I can't tell you how many professors say "find sources in the text to support your claim then find sources outside the text to support your claim."

This is "find sources outside the text" and the OP might actually do -quite well- to quote (and cite) some of what has been said here.
Title: Re: Characterization in Mistborn
Post by: Dangerbutton on September 29, 2008, 01:13:06 AM
So, uh, it may help that I clarify that this isn't any sort of paper I have to write, or even a graded assignment. On monday in class we will be learning about characterization, and I simply volunteered to bring an example of good characterization for the class to hear. So, even if we did call this cheating, would it even be unethical, since it has nothing to do with my grade?
Essentially, I'm just asking for your help in providing my class with a good example of characterization.
Title: Re: Characterization in Mistborn
Post by: neiana on September 29, 2008, 01:16:10 AM
It wasn't cheating or unethical in the first place :P
Title: Re: Characterization in Mistborn
Post by: Wielder on September 29, 2008, 03:13:19 AM
So, uh, it may help that I clarify that this isn't any sort of paper I have to write, or even a graded assignment. On monday in class we will be learning about characterization, and I simply volunteered to bring an example of good characterization for the class to hear. So, even if we did call this cheating, would it even be unethical, since it has nothing to do with my grade?
Essentially, I'm just asking for your help in providing my class with a good example of characterization.
:p

It wouldn't matter either way hehe.  I hope the class enjoys the quotes Danger!
Title: Re: Characterization in Mistborn
Post by: Dangerbutton on September 29, 2008, 06:32:02 AM
Wow, having just read the third chapter of HoA, I think I'd rather just bring that whole chapter and say, "So, uh, this really doesn't fit the assignment, but, dang, you've gotta read this!"
Title: Re: Characterization in Mistborn
Post by: Wielder on September 29, 2008, 08:08:12 AM
Wow, having just read the third chapter of HoA, I think I'd rather just bring that whole chapter and say, "So, uh, this really doesn't fit the assignment, but, dang, you've gotta read this!"

Lol, the second I read the description of the Koloss, I thought of this thread.  SO COOL!