Timewaster's Guide Archive
Local Authors => Brandon Sanderson => Topic started by: Chaos on September 14, 2008, 07:11:02 AM
-
Right now, in my time zone (Mountain time), it has just turned into September 14th. Which means... only thirty more days until the Hero of Ages!
I say that this topic will be the Grand Countdown for it. But, instead of just having people say "Twenty-nine days until MB3!" over and over again, I say we mix it up a bit :D.
Every day, let's post one of our theories and discuss it for the day. As of late, it seems we just wait for sample chapters and not do much rampant theorizing, so hopefully, this topic will get us both psyched and get us on our final stretch of theorizing before the answers are revealed!
I'm not sure how we'd decide which theory to start on for each day. I suppose the first poster for the day can suggest a theory to discuss, and we could just see how it goes!
Any takers for the first day's discussion, T-30 days to go? (Ookla could suggest some theories to talk about, too!)
-
Theory: Mistborn 3 will involve a trip into one of the ashmounts to throw something in.
-
Theory: Mistborn 3 will involve a trip into one of the ashmounts to throw something in.
-_- I loathe you some days. Now that's all I'm going to be worried about for the next month!
xD
-
I keep thinking its gonna be a ring....huh? Wonder why that keeps happening? *shrugs, than drinks his deliciously made tea nonchalantly.*
:-\
In all seriousness though, i don't think that the LOTR has much to do with MB anymore. I mean sure it was the initial insentive of the book, but i think we're past that.
The whole "what if the Frodo never made it to the Mountain top?' question that EUOL fiddled with is answered. He told us what he thinks should it have happened already...in book one! "...if i should fail, another will come after me..." i think that was how it was written. That is EUOL's answer to the question, but the book has become so much more. Maybe he didn't plan it, but it has.
In short, i disagree.
However, i am not demeaning the importance of the ashmounts, i do believe they are of some significance but in a whole different manner.
-
I used to think that the Ashmounts were immensely significant. There would need to be reason for Rashek to create the Ashmounts in the first place. That, and they have names. Things that are named are usually more important than non-named things.
However, with the two epigraphs we have for MB3, the Ashmounts could just be the result of improper use of the power at the Well.
-
What the ashmounts are for has practically been revealed already. Of course, you need to know a few specific things about science to get the explanation.
-
What the ashmounts are for has practically been revealed already. Of course, you need to know a few specific things about science to get the explanation.
I took geology so I SHOULD know what your talking about. Now I'm all frustrated that I can't figure it out. Once I do I'll probably slap myself over it.
-
It's probably something like Rashek made the Ashmounts to spew ash to block the sun's ray's, because the planet was now placed too close to the sun.
-
Or maybe to more actively churn up the earth, providing greater resources for fertilizer, obsidian, metals, etc. . .
-
It's probably something like Rashek made the Ashmounts to spew ash to block the sun's ray's, because the planet was now placed too close to the sun.
DING DING DING
Czanos' suggestion is worth thinking about though.
-
It's probably something like Rashek made the Ashmounts to spew ash to block the sun's ray's, because the planet was now placed too close to the sun.
DING DING DING
Czanos' suggestion is worth thinking about though.
Neato. See, already, this topic is so useful.
-
SO, they will have to move the earth farther away from the sun in order to fix it. But when they do that then suddenly everything will be REALLY cold. So they'll have to go and do something to the ashmounts in order to get them to stop shooting soot into the air.
As far as creating more metals. . . hmmm. Perhaps this has to do with the 16th metal and it "inhibiting power" as we have though about before. Maybe that's what they have to put in it, but where is it.
-
:oWhat if the sixteenth metal is located within the Ashmounts and Vin or whoever has to go and retrieve it? That would be the opposite of LOTR! It would make sense.
-
:oWhat if the sixteenth metal is located within the Ashmounts and Vin or whoever has to go and retrieve it? That would be the opposite of LOTR! It would make sense.
Lol, that'd be just like Brandon, breaking fantasy conventions and all.
"Now, Frodo, we want you to dive into the lava and get the Ring out."
"WHAT!?"
"Yeah... heck of a plot-twist, eh?"
-
:oWhat if the sixteenth metal is located within the Ashmounts and Vin or whoever has to go and retrieve it? That would be the opposite of LOTR! It would make sense.
Lol, that'd be just like Brandon, breaking fantasy conventions and all.
"Now, Frodo, we want you to dive into the lava and get the Ring out."
"WHAT!?"
"Yeah... heck of a plot-twist, eh?"
As funny as that sounds I doubt it. ha ha! OH!!! WAIT! She could PULL the metal out!
-
Quote from: Chaos2651 on Today at 04:55:25 PM
Quote from: elmandr1 on Today at 03:42:32 PM
:oWhat if the sixteenth metal is located within the Ashmounts and Vin or whoever has to go and retrieve it? That would be the opposite of LOTR! It would make sense.
Lol, that'd be just like Brandon, breaking fantasy conventions and all.
"Now, Frodo, we want you to dive into the lava and get the Ring out."
"WHAT!?"
"Yeah... heck of a plot-twist, eh?"
As funny as that sounds I doubt it. ha ha! OH!!! WAIT! She could PULL the metal out!
LOL! you forget chaos2651, this time it won't be frodo it would be YOU!
-
Well, that makes perfect sense, considering I'm the Hero of Ages.
-
Hey, don't worry to much--you might not even have to jump in, you might find Gollum bathing in the lava. So if that should happen (fingers crossed) you should bring a sack of raw fish with you. Gollum loves his fish.
Or, im not sure where im getting this but my intuition keeps telling me that a riddle migh work.
Try this on him. "Two coins add up to make thirty cents, and one of them is not a nickel."
-
Like miyabi said, all I need to is Ironpull. Tis easy.
-
I don't think it's going to be that easy, this isn't Eragon, it gonna be a little more complicated than that.
-
Well, if you were trying to Ironpull it out, you would need to hope that you were close enough to the lake of lava/magma in order to sense the metal. Then you would have to have a pretty stable anchor outside to prevent yourself from pummeling down into the lake of lava as you tried to force the ring up through molten and semisolid rock. It's doable, but it's not as easy as, "Ooh look! Something down in the lava! *zip* Let's go home."
-
So who's going to take tomorrow's theory? I thought that one was pretty good for the first day. Honestly, I hadn't thought of the "reverse of LoTR" thing in this context. I should have started with elmandr1's idea! Good one!
-
I believe Chaos stated that the first poster tomorrow can decide the theory of the day. Unless someone has a stroke of genius in the next few hours, I'm assuming that's the way we're going.
-
*shrugs* I don't really know how it's going to work out. We could start the next discussion now, but that would mean we lose two hours more of discussion. I know that at least Ookla likes to weave through the forums late at night, but I don't know about other people.
We could start suggestions right now, I suppose, and just begin discussion after 12?
Really, though, I'm glad the first day's comments worked out so well. In a sort of open-ended topic like this, these things could get horrible really quickly.
-
Well, it's kind of like the buy/sell thread, just with more time between each post and discussion allowed. If you don't try to take it too seriously, there are all sorts of interesting ideas you can come up with.
-
Yeah, it's really working out well.
Any ideas for T-29 days' discussion?
-
*Eyes the Forum to see if anyone is there....*
Sweet new topic on a platter!
???
The first topic is a bit hard to follow...
OH!
we haven't talked much about Elend, though he was the most dynamic character in book two. He lost his kingship because his people thought he was too weak but now he's Mistborn...Is it possible that he will retrieve the throne?
Is he the HOA?
-
Well, technically he's the Emperor now. He's better than king. However, the topic about Elend being the Hero definitely has merit. Let's discuss that.
-
I know this is my own topic but after i wrote the question i really started to tink (and no i didn't misspell it ;D) and i remembered something that i read from the book. I can't remember who said it but they said that the Mistborn's were slowly growing weaker, that the Mistborn's in the past were much more powerful. This got me thinking, has Elend started a new lineage of Mistborn, and if so, does that sorta make him like a draccula of some sort?
I might be suffering from lack-of-sleep disorder, or i might have become so exhausted i have slipped into a part of my mind, an unconcious state of exstacy--i might be genius right now. If not, then im definitly delusional.
Goodnight.
-
Elend as Dracula. HmmmMMMmmmMMmm.
-
Ruin and Preservation were once the same entity, until a piece of the World Crystal broke off and caused them to split. Now, Vin must take Reen's obsidian and jam it back into the crystal, thereby restoring the world. I bet this will show a generation gap.
-
Silly Gelfling, there is only one sun. Oh wait, that means the beginning of the prophecy has been met.
-
Ruin and Preservation were once the same entity, until a piece of the World Crystal broke off and caused them to split. Now, Vin must take Reen's obsidian and jam it back into the crystal, thereby restoring the world. I bet this will show a generation gap.
If that is what I think it is I have that book but I never got more than a few chapters in. ha ha.
I think I mentioned once something about how Elend COULD be more powerful than Vin because his Mistbornness is pure and Vin's is tainted.
-
If that is what I think it is I have that book but I never got more than a few chapters in. ha ha.
Yeah, all those pictures are kind of boring ;)
-
I would think that Elend becoming a mistborn will do a couple of things. One it will give him the strength and confidence to secure his empire. Two it will give Vin a whole lot more time to her self. I know they realized they really love eachother and now they are husband and wife, but she no longer needs to wait outside his window at night and act as his protector 24/7. She will be free to act on her own a lot more. this is not saying she doesn't act on her own already but protecting him wont be as strong a reason holding her back as we see in chapter one of HoA. think if hes there acting alone doing something like challenging a rouge army of kolos where is she and what crazy thing is she doing?
-
think if hes there acting alone doing something like challenging a rouge army of kolos where is she and what crazy thing is she doing?
Red Koloss? Are those the elite versions? ;)
To be honest, I think she's there, too, controlling the Koloss. Of course, I would be surprised if Elend couldn't also control them.
-
Don't they turn red when their hitpoints are at a critical level?
-
Rogue** ;)
ha ha.
Maybe when a Koloss' skin rips too much it sheds the old skin and gains a red exterior. :p They're like snakes, 'cept better.
-
I thought the koloss bled... strangely. Like, not red. If so, then when the koloss skin rips too much, it wouldn't be red.
But I'm not sure on that one.
-
Right, So why would she be controlling the kolos. the only reason I would think this to be true would be to convince other territories to switch sides. This is a good way for Elend to gain followers. If Vin is controlling the Kolos to attack these cities and then Elend goes in and says "Hey listen to me and we can win but you have to swear to me" then they would almost be guaranteed more followers as they go. Just no one could find out.
Forgive the simple mind and spelling errors.
-
I thought the koloss bled... strangely. Like, not red.
As I recall, it's red, but not normal human-blood color; brighter. Some of the characters who observe this, though, think it might be an optical illusion in contrast to their blue skin.
-
I thought the koloss bled... strangely. Like, not red. If so, then when the koloss skin rips too much, it wouldn't be red.
But I'm not sure on that one.
I guess I should have put sarcasm tags around that statement. ha ha.
-
Right, So why would she be controlling the kolos. the only reason I would think this to be true would be to convince other territories to switch sides. This is a good way for Elend to gain followers. If Vin is controlling the Kolos to attack these cities and then Elend goes in and says "Hey listen to me and we can win but you have to swear to me" then they would almost be guaranteed more followers as they go. Just no one could find out.
Forgive the simple mind and spelling errors.
I find this a bit hard to believe. Why kill off more then capable fighter to gain the homage of simple village people? And knowing Elend, i'm almost positive he wouldn't result to such tactics to gain loyalty--as we learned from book 2.
Perhaps Vin has lost control of the Koloss. Perhaps the deepness broke through her hold of them and seized them himself.
-
Right that is what i thought. I only posted that in reasponse to the post saying that someone thought Vin was there.
I don't think Vin would be there controlling the Kolos for any reason at this time. I think these Kolos are rampant and Elend cant control them so he went to intercept and help. I think Vin could very possibly be doing the same thing somewhere else.
-
Right that is what i thought. I only posted that in reasponse to the post saying that someone thought Vin was there.
I don't think Vin would be there controlling the Kolos for any reason at this time. I think these Kolos are rampant and Elend cant control them so he went to intercept and help. I think Vin could very possibly be doing the same thing somewhere else
I agree, but reading that i pictured the two of them on the dinner table,
"how many did you kill today?"
"A few hundred. you?"
"Ehm. yeah, me too. Are you bleeding?"
"NOo! It's Koloss blood...what happened to your head?"
"ooh, this? Smashed a Koloss in the face."
"You really like that move huh?"
"Uhuh."
Ms. and Mrs. Smith gone Medieval.
-
LMAO... that was awesome.
Actually, I think it's likely that these particular koloss could be controlled by Ruin in some manner.
-
*Epiphany*
The Koloss weren't around until LR came to power.
The deepness probably created his own Koloss.
-
Sorry but I find that one hard to swallow. I would think that if the deepness could create creatures then why Kolos? I mean is a force that is controlling the end of the world lacking in imagination. I think not. If anything they might be being controlled. Ruin or another force could do something like this. I find the idea of such an ability to be a little far fetched. Just as far fetched as your support of Chaos but I'll leave that one alone for another time and place.
-
All right, all right. No politics in this thread, this is pure theory time.
It's about that time to name a new theory for tomorrow, T-28 days until MB3. Today, I have a theory I would like to suggest for tomorrow. I apologize if you had a different idea, but I felt this one needed to be said.
I have a quote from darxbane from the HoA Chapter Two topic:
Yes. Imagine if TLR's death is causing the world to slowly return to it's original location? If everything he did was slowly unraveling? I have never looked forward to October like I have this year.
And so, tomorrow's conversation topic:
What if, after the Lord Ruler's death, the things he did as he held the power slowly changed back to the way it was previously?
-
It makes sense. He changed the earth, and it fits in with what he said when vin killed him. hmm i like that one, time to lose more sleep contemplating the epicness of Mistborn...
-
What if?
I'm inclined to say an ice storm...perhaps a vast array of natural disasters--earthquakes to tsunami's...that's what would happen idealy...in the story im not sure if that a good thing.
Perhaps the deepness can't survive in the heat--perhaps if it is cold enough it could solidify and then ne a physical force. That would explain why LR did what he did.
-
Good idea, except in the epigraphs of book one, it mentions that the Deepnes is left behind when they reach the Ice Mountains. If the world does return to pre-TLR status, Luthadel and the remaining dominances are going to get very cold.
-
Historically Hero in a time of war means a warrior who dies for his people and a champion lives on.....
thus the new topic begins
-
Good idea, except in the epigraphs of book one, it mentions that the Deepnes is left behind when they reach the Ice Mountains. If the world does return to pre-TLR status, Luthadel and the remaining dominances are going to get very cold.
What do you mean "the Deepness is left behind"? I don't remember that particular epigraph.
Of course, the upside is you wouldn't have ash staining your clothes. That's got to get annoying after a while...
-
Chaos, this particular theory makes a lot of sense. I'm inclined to agree. By the way, thank you for officially labeling this as a non-political thread. I don't know how much more non-stop political crap I could take. (This should not be quoted and used against me, as it originates in this thread of deep non-political origins)
-
The theory is sound but what was the world like before TLR? We know it wasn't the green happy place we might think because the deepness had already taken effect. So what caused the ashmounts and deepness to begin with?
-
I would think that the Lord Ruler holding the power caused the Ashmounts. What caused the Deepness, however, is a different question entirely. I believe it is a thing brought up by Ruin's existence, so, whenever Ruin has the ability to influence the world, the Deepness logically follows.
There is another matter here, though. It is the "Hero of Ages". Brandon said on the annotation for the title page on MB2:
This title was fairly easy to choose. Actually, the titles of all three books were easy to choose. I originally toyed with calling the Hero of Ages the Final Hero. So, because of that, I was tempted to come up with a "final" title to use for book two.
However, I quickly decided that I liked Hero of Ages instead of Final Hero (you'll see why in Book Three.) So, way back as far as the first chapters of book one, I was planning book two to be named the Well of Ascension.
"Ages". As in, multiple ages. We can assume what an "Age" is is the thousand-year span between Ascensions. As to why it is called the Hero of Ages, we can only speculate.
So... we better start speculating on that, stat. It's what we do around here.
Andrew, you're welcome. That political crap is really draining, considering I have a lot of homework to do.
-
Perhaps, like the refillment of the Well, the Ruin returns every thousand years and not because TLR was killed.
We know the well was always there but we assume it is meant for the HOA--what if thats wrong. What if the Well was meant for Ruin? And It was up to the Hero to Destroy it after the fact? What if It returned every "Age" and an Anointed warrior is chosen for each uprising?
Perhaps whoever the next HOA is just one of many...perhaps there were hundreds--spread thousands of years apart?
So the question rises, then how come we don't know of the others before TLR?
i have to theories and it can be both.
HERO by definition is a person who has died for the cuase. Or in Battle with glory. Perhaps each hero must Die. Another is that the lord ruler, like hitler, would have destroyed anything that suggests or prooves this.
Where does the Deepness come in?
I believe that the deepness is the spirit of the HOA's of the past.
it wasn't there before TLR because with him still alive, the spirit could not remain.
Why not?
I think that the chosen HOA, must unite himself with the deepness....This would explain Vin's battle with the TLR...when she thought she had used the mist....
but that's just speculation.
Man, i just got goosebumps.
-
Two things...
LMAO... that was awesome.
Actually, I think it's likely that these particular koloss could be controlled by Ruin in some manner.
I think the Koloss referred to are controlled by the Inquisitors, who are being controlled by Ruin, so yeah. They did use a bunch of Koloss to take out the Terris lands...
It's about that time to name a new theory for tomorrow, T-28 days until MB3. Today, I have a theory I would like to suggest for tomorrow. I apologize if you had a different idea, but I felt this one needed to be said.
I have a quote from darxbane from the HoA Chapter Two topic:
Yes. Imagine if TLR's death is causing the world to slowly return to it's original location? If everything he did was slowly unraveling? I have never looked forward to October like I have this year.
And so, tomorrow's conversation topic:
What if, after the Lord Ruler's death, the things he did as he held the power slowly changed back to the way it was previously?
Brandon does mention in one of his annotations (can't remember where, too tired to look it up now) that the world is kind of frozen in time. Like it was on the brink of destruction and something TLR did (was doing) kept that from happening. Controlling Ruin?
-
I don't believe I remember that particular annotation. I would love to read it if you could dig it out, though.
Okay, so, it's past midnight. Topic for T-27 days? Any takers?
-
Is it possible that the world was originally doomed for a far worse fate and TLR actually SAVED the world?
-
Is it possible that the world was originally doomed for a far worse fate and TLR actually SAVED the world?
...perhaps he was just stalling for the real HOA to come and, this is going to sound far fetched, stopped time, there by putting a stop to the Ruins usurpment.
This still works with my theory that the mist-spirit is the collective souls of past HOA's and the real HOA(for that "Age") will merge and become one with the spirits and achieve the knowledge that allows s/he to wield the power properly and perhaps develop the knowledge of how to destroy the Ruin.
Does anyone think my theory is right? I feel especially good about it.
check my last post on this thread before this one.
-
Is it possible that the world was originally doomed for a far worse fate and TLR actually SAVED the world?
...perhaps he was just stalling for the real HOA to come and, this is going to sound far fetched, stopped time, there by putting a stop to the Ruins usurpment.
This still works with my theory that the mist-spirit is the collective souls of past HOA's and the real HOA(for that "Age") will merge and become one with the spirits and achieve the knowledge that allows s/he to wield the power properly and perhaps develop the knowledge of how to destroy the Ruin.
Does anyone think my theory is right? I feel especially good about it.
check my last post on this thread before this one.
Whoa... I read your previous post in detail, but I must say that "the Deepness" and "the mist spirit" are two different things. If the Hero needed to merge with the mist spirit, you could have something, but the Deepness? You'd have to convince me to take in that one :P
-
Is it possible that the world was originally doomed for a far worse fate and TLR actually SAVED the world?
...perhaps he was just stalling for the real HOA to come and, this is going to sound far fetched, stopped time, there by putting a stop to the Ruins usurpment.
This still works with my theory that the mist-spirit is the collective souls of past HOA's and the real HOA(for that "Age") will merge and become one with the spirits and achieve the knowledge that allows s/he to wield the power properly and perhaps develop the knowledge of how to destroy the Ruin.
Does anyone think my theory is right? I feel especially good about it.
check my last post on this thread before this one.
Whoa... I read your previous post in detail, but I must say that "the Deepness" and "the mist spirit" are two different things. If the Hero needed to merge with the mist spirit, you could have something, but the Deepness? You'd have to convince me to take in that one :P
Well if the deepness is indeed the mist, and the mist spirit is the collective souls of the HOA's then is it not one and the same?
-
I don't follow. How would that make them one and the same. Because they are both comprised of mist? I think they are separate, the mist spirit I think is of preservation hence the injuring of Elend. The spirit wanted Vin to take the power and use it to save Elend instead of giving it up and releasing Ruin.
-
Maybe the deepness could be of Preservation as well though. My far-out there theory deals with the fact that when the Deepness returns, it only targets certain people. I can't remember which annotation it was, but there was one where he mentioned this being important.
Maybe, in some weird convoluted way, the people the Deepness killed could/would/maybe possibly work for Ruin, or at least towards his goals in some way? That would make the Deepness Preservation in some way.
-
Last night i stumbled upon the thought on what exactly was the mist spirit--a thought came to me that the mist spirit could be the collective souls of all the past HOA's. I liked the idea, partly cuz that would be just fandiddly, and partly because it explains alot.
here's how,
First off we need to find out what exactly is the real prophecy, since that is the greatest of all issues of uncertianty.
Prophecy means a religious, or supernatural promise of the coming of a future event(disaster/prosperity) or person(anionted one/apollyon). So if the tellers of a prophecy could perdict the future, couldn't they see the Ruin changing the prophecy at hand, and then actually succeeding? wouldn't a prophecy be able to foresee this? Of cousre, it would. And i believe it did. The real prophecy probably tells of the Ruin coming up great power and a great person of that age would...and the Ruin would be destroyed, and all will be good again. The Expected.
My opinion is that the prophecy is that the H.O. of that A. must unite him or herself with the mist spirit, not attain the power of the well. how do i know? because the Ruin has the power, so it definitly not that...so what else has appeared or distinguished itself since the death of the TLR? The Mist spirit.
another something that only convinces me further. Remember back to when Vin fought TLR? what did she use to do it....? yes, i know, im genius. ;D. Which would explain why the Ruin would spread rumors about the mist, getting people to turn away from it. Did the mist really kill people? or was it there superstiousness that made for there starvation? think about it? has anyone ever been reported to have been killed by the mist from a reliable source?
How is Vin or chaos2651 supposed to unite with the mist spirit?
The Kandra.
the kandra hold a secret, a dear, dear secret. Vin knows it. And you and i know it. Thats my thoery of how she could do it.
If there is anything im missing, let me know. see if this formula (HOA+mist spirit) works in all cases. If not we can dismiss it.
-
I suppose it's possible...but it's WAY too convoluted for my tastes. It'd be much easier to say, "Vin is the Hero of Ages. She has to defeat Ruin. She can do it in x way for x reason." Much easier than some crazy merging with the mist spirit.
-
I suppose it's possible...but it's WAY too convoluted for my tastes. It'd be much easier to say, "Vin is the Hero of Ages. She has to defeat Ruin. She can do it in x way for x reason." Much easier than some crazy merging with the mist spirit.
I don't know...Do you think that's EUOL's style?
-
He does things in such a way that their complicated and make us all go insane, but make total sense. I don't think your theory really fits the bill. It seems like that's kinda out of nowhere. It's a good idea, though.
-
Does Ruin have a physical body? Maybe the reason the HOA had to take in the power rather than release it was because it would seal Ruin within themselves.
Also I forsee an Elend vs. Marsh showdown. Or Vin. I'm not picky.
I wanna know more about the Kandra's society and religion and stuff. That has something to do with the huge secret, I'm sure.
-
What if elmandr1's not half wrong?
-
I hate comments like this. I never know what ookla's trying to do.
I never claimed he was wrong, simply stated that I didn't feel it was likely. If enough evidence to the contrary is presented, I will gladly revise my opinion.
-
I don't believe I remember that particular annotation. I would love to read it if you could dig it out, though.
Mistborn: The Final Empire, Prologue part two:
It's all just part of the image I'm trying to create--a place that isn't set in any particular time. In fact, it's a little bit frozen in time, as you'll find in later books.
That's where I got it from.
What if elmandr1's not half wrong?
The details of the Mist Spirit, the earring getting in the way of drawing on the mists in WOA, which brings up another annotation quote: (Mistborn: The Final Empire, Chapter 38 part 3)
I wasn't planning on having Vin draw upon the mists in this book--I was going to save it for later--but the initial version of this chapter (which had Vin simply grabbing the bracelets off the Lord Ruler's arms with her hands) lacked the proper drama or impact. So, I moved up my timetable, and gave her access to some abilities she wasn't going to get until the next book.
It's a good theory. Doesn't explain everything, but it's definitely something to consider.
-
What if elmandr1's not half wrong?
Not half wrong, but wholly wrong? Is that what you're saying? :)
-
I don't follow. How would that make them one and the same. Because they are both comprised of mist? I think they are separate, the mist spirit I think is of preservation hence the injuring of Elend. The spirit wanted Vin to take the power and use it to save Elend instead of giving it up and releasing Ruin.
Surely, the mist spirit would have wanted Vin to keep the power and not let the ruin have it--that doesn't mean she was supposed to keep it. It's just a better option. If she was indeed MEANT and supposed to have the power, doesn't she? The Prophecy, and i mean the true and unkown prophecy, has not come to pass. Otherwise we wouldnt have a book left of reading.
if something is meant for you, you can never lose it.
The only other factor in the story, other than the Ruin and the Well, that has become a factor post TLR's death, is the mist spirit.
When TLR, the prophecy began. So what began to happen? The began to refill, the deepness began lasting longer through the night, the mist spirit, and the Ruin at the very end. OK.
Let's disect these bad boys. We know that the HOA must defeat the Ruin now. So we Know where the Danger comes from, or what it is. Cancel one out. The HOA must NOT be meant for the well--at all, they were not meant to even reach and obtain the power--keeping or leting go of it is not even a question. Vin just happened to but she let it go, therebye confirming that the HOA obtaining the power was not destiny--or the prophecy. So what is left? The mist spirit.
I have stated multiple times why i think they will unite, if anyone hasn't read that, check out my previous posts.
-
What if elmandr1's not half wrong?
Not half wrong, but wholly wrong? Is that what you're saying? :)
SarahG, please look over my last few posts. Ask what you want about the book concerning my theory. Give it some considerable thought, and if it doesn't hold up i'll be the first to eat my hat. :-*.
-
I hate comments like this. I never know what ookla's trying to do.
I never claimed he was wrong, simply stated that I didn't feel it was likely. If enough evidence to the contrary is presented, I will gladly revise my opinion.
Why not present some evidence to show why you doubt my thoery. Instead of dismissing it so. 8). You say it because Sanderson would likely surprise us, would you not be surprised if i was right.
Andrew, it is apparent that you are among the analytic arcanists in this forum--if anyone should have a closer look at this theory, it shoul be you.
But be wary, as sazed had said before, nothing it more dooming in research then looking for a specific answer.
-
I wasn't trying to give an opinion on your theory, but to suggest another possible meaning for Ookla's comment. Ookla likes to be as obtuse and ambiguous as possible in his hints, such that they cease to be hints. I find it amusing to figure out how his comments could be interpreted in opposite ways.
As for your theory, I agree with Andrew that it seems a bit convoluted. However, it could very well be true for all I know. I've gotten a bit lazy lately in thinking about theories; there's so much that we just won't know till the book comes out, that sometimes I get tired of speculating based on the little we do know. We'll all know the truth in a few weeks.
-
I wasn't trying to give an opinion on your theory, but to suggest another possible meaning for Ookla's comment. Ookla likes to be as obtuse and ambiguous as possible in his hints, such that they cease to be hints. I find it amusing to figure out how his comments could be interpreted in opposite ways.
As for your theory, I agree with Andrew that it seems a bit convoluted. However, it could very well be true for all I know. I've gotten a bit lazy lately in thinking about theories; there's so much that we just won't know till the book comes out, that sometimes I get tired of speculating based on the little we do know. We'll all know the truth in a few weeks.
but until then we can only get so close. True.
...how close am I--in a sense of consistency with the story.
-
OK, elmandr1, I'll put aside my laziness and make a few comments on your theory.
We know the well was always there but we assume it is meant for the HOA--what if thats wrong. What if the Well was meant for Ruin? And It was up to the Hero to Destroy it after the fact? What if It returned every "Age" and an Anointed warrior is chosen for each uprising?
The Well of Ascension is a pretty central theme in the series; it’s even one of the book titles. Also, it forms the basis of the great twist of that second book – that the Hero was NOT supposed to release the power, because that would release Ruin. I think it would be strange for the great twist of the third book to be a reversal of the great twist of the second book. From a storytelling perspective, major revelations like that lose a lot of their power if they later turn out to be false.
HERO by definition is a person who has died for the cuase. Or in Battle with glory. Perhaps each hero must Die.
I don’t know where you’re getting the idea that all heros must die. A hero is simply someone who exhibits great courage or other virtues, regardless of whether he/she ends up dying. Are you thinking of the word martyr?
I believe that the deepness is the spirit of the HOA's of the past.
it wasn't there before TLR because with him still alive, the spirit could not remain.
But I think the Deepness WAS there before TLR; after all, he was the one who defeated the Deepness.
I think that the chosen HOA, must unite himself with the deepness.
In this, you might very well be right. I frankly have no theory at all about what exactly the Hero will need to do to set the world right again, and I find this as likely as any.
...perhaps he was just stalling for the real HOA to come and, this is going to sound far fetched, stopped time, there by putting a stop to the Ruins usurpment.
In that case, why did he not welcome Vin with open arms and explain to her what he’d done and what she must do? Or Sazed, or Elend, or whoever the Hero was. Instead, TLR died in despair.
Last night i stumbled upon the thought on what exactly was the mist spirit--a thought came to me that the mist spirit could be the collective souls of all the past HOA's. I liked the idea, partly cuz that would be just fandiddly, and partly because it explains alot.
Again, I have no objection to this theory, since I have no more plausible theory to suggest what the mist spirit could be.
Prophecy means a religious, or supernatural promise of the coming of a future event(disaster/prosperity) or person(anionted one/apollyon). So if the tellers of a prophecy could perdict the future, couldn't they see the Ruin changing the prophecy at hand, and then actually succeeding? wouldn't a prophecy be able to foresee this? Of cousre, it would. And i believe it did.
I’m not sure that prophecy always involves omniscience about all future events; often, it’s only one particular event that is prophesied. Furthermore, EUOL is the kind of author who delights in defying conventions and clichés, and what could be more cliché in fantasy than a prophesy coming true? We saw in book 2 how the characters got in trouble for relying on their understanding of the prophecies. I wouldn’t be surprised if in the third book, we don’t see true prophecies coming to pass, but characters relying instead on their own intelligence to defeat Ruin.
Did the mist really kill people? or was it there superstiousness that made for there starvation? think about it? has anyone ever been reported to have been killed by the mist from a reliable source?
Well, Sazed has seen and examined several bodies that died of something other than starvation. I would consider him a reliable source.
The Prophecy, and i mean the true and unkown prophecy, has not come to pass. Otherwise we wouldnt have a book left of reading.
Again, I’m not convinced that this series is really about a True Prophecy.
if something is meant for you, you can never lose it.
This is a belief that may or may not be shared by our author. My guess is not. My impression is that he is not a fatalist, but believes that people have choices rather than an ironclad destiny, and that those choices can cause things to go wrong.
-
SarahG is wise, and Ookla delights in the psychological torment of others. My point being, don't read too much into Ookla's post, and spend as much time looking for data that doesn't support your conclusions as you do looking for what does.
-
I'll comment later because I have a class coming up soon, but I will say, elmandr1, PLEASE, I beg you, please stop multi-posting. I've told you this twice... Really, it's not a good thing to do.
-
I'll comment later because I have a class coming up soon, but I will say, elmandr1, PLEASE, I beg you, please stop multi-posting. I've told you this twice... Really, it's not a good thing to do.
y
ok, sorry, i just get excited is all. :'(.
-
I don't believe I remember that particular annotation. I would love to read it if you could dig it out, though.
Mistborn: The Final Empire, Prologue part two:
It's all just part of the image I'm trying to create--a place that isn't set in any particular time. In fact, it's a little bit frozen in time, as you'll find in later books.
That's where I got it from.
That's immensely interesting.
...perhaps he was just stalling for the real HOA to come and, this is going to sound far fetched, stopped time, there by putting a stop to the Ruins usurpment.
In that case, why did he not welcome Vin with open arms and explain to her what he’d done and what she must do? Or Sazed, or Elend, or whoever the Hero was. Instead, TLR died in despair.
The Lord Ruler believed he was the real Hero. When the Well refilled, he would set the world right.
In that case, the Well is something that is very important. Every thousand years it fills...
Anyways, I really don't know how to further respond to elmandr1's theory. It could be true, it could not be true. All we have now is rampant speculation, and we can't know for certain what will happen. For that reason, we cannot disprove your theory, neither can we prove it. Speculation, you see.
Not having it disproved, though, is a really good thing. Be happy :D.
-
One thing I haven't seen discussed although I could have missed it is in regards to the people that are shook by the mists but went unscathed. It seems out of character for them to just stand out there calling for the others to join them. Either they would be too scared by what the mists did that they would run away or they wouldn't be scared at all and would have helped feed their families rather than letting them starve to death.
-
Good point. I mean If your family was in a hut next to you and there was some mist out there killing people wouldnt you still try to help. Has anyone seen the movie The Mist? Good flick but same idea. Some people go out because they cant leave their family and some stay due to fear.
-
To me it just seemed weird, kind of like 'Hey, I just got attacked by the mists but I am fine. Lah dee dah, look at me waving at you. Just come on out here, it won't hurt you. Well, it has hurt some people but it won't hurt you. Come on. Are you coming? No? You're starving you say? Oh ok, well, see you later.'
-
Ok, I will examine your posts in great detail and see what I can come up with right off the top.
We know the well was always there but we assume it is meant for the HOA--what if thats wrong. What if the Well was meant for Ruin? And It was up to the Hero to Destroy it after the fact? What if It returned every "Age" and an Anointed warrior is chosen for each uprising?
Umm....What? I'm a little confused. Are you suggesting that the well of ascension was meant for a super-deity that wants to turn the world into a bunch of unorganized matter? Lack of foresight on someone's part, there...
Perhaps whoever the next HOA is just one of many...perhaps there were hundreds--spread thousands of years apart?
So the question rises, then how come we don't know of the others before TLR?
This is possible, and is a good idea. However, I must state that this is not the wheel of time. Brandon has not made numerous references to cyclic history. I would also like to point out that it's entirely possible that the hero of ages in previous times (if this is the case) did not have access to the same abilities as Vin, and therefore (if this is the case) we can rule out allomancy as being important (Which, I think, is not the case).
If there were previous Heroes of Ages, you would think there would at least be legends about them, as opposed to a bunch of random religious prophecies.
Another point. The title of the book is THE Hero of Ages. This is not by any means confirmation that there is only one hero, but it seems to imply it. And even Hero of Ages as a title tends to imply that there is only one hero of ages. But, it is entirely possible.
HERO by definition is a person who has died for the cuase. Or in Battle with glory. Perhaps each hero must Die. Another is that the lord ruler, like hitler, would have destroyed anything that suggests or prooves this.
As has already been mentioned, I think you are referring to the word "martyr." Hero has no such connotation. In fact, all it means is someone who other people (or a person) admire. This is usually because of something cool that they did, like save the world, but not necessarily.
Where does the Deepness come in?
I believe that the deepness is the spirit of the HOA's of the past.
This is where you really start to stretch it. You're suggesting that the deepness (some terrible thing that killed hundreds of people and convinced everyone that unless it was stopped would destroy the world) is made of the souls of past Heroes of Ages (who are supposed to somehow save the world)? Doesn't really make sense, though again, it's plausible.
it wasn't there before TLR because with him still alive, the spirit could not remain.
Why not?
So are you suggesting that the Lord Ruler is also a Hero of Ages? That's an interesting thought.
And if the above statements are true, then this makes a lot of sense, though you seem to be merging the mist spirit and the deepness in your theory, which doesn't really make sense for reasons I'll get into in a moment.
"Why not" what? Are you referring to why couldn't the spirit remain here, or why would this theory not work, or something entirely different?
I think that the chosen HOA, must unite himself with the deepness....This would explain Vin's battle with the TLR...when she thought she had used the mist....
That is a really cool idea. However, as has been mentioned, we have no idea how the hero will defeat the deepness because we don't really know that much about the deepness.
...perhaps he was just stalling for the real HOA to come and, this is going to sound far fetched, stopped time, there by putting a stop to the Ruins usurpment.
Not if the Lord Ruler is actually a Hero of Ages as you suggested above. Otherwise, him being alive should not keep the mist spirit from showing up by your logic. There could be other reasons why it can't come while he's alive, but not that he's a hero of ages. Or, alternately, the Lord Ruler is a Hero of Ages and is doing something to stop Ruin. Or a combination of the two.
This still works with my theory that the mist-spirit is the collective souls of past HOA's and the real HOA(for that "Age") will merge and become one with the spirits and achieve the knowledge that allows s/he to wield the power properly and perhaps develop the knowledge of how to destroy the Ruin.
This is another problem spot. First of all, earlier, you suggested that the Hero of Ages must merge with the Deepness (which seems to be of Ruin) in order to defeat it. Now you are suggesting that he/she/it must merge with the mist spirit (which I personally feel is of Preservation, though I can't prove it). The mist spirit and the mist are most definitely not the same thing, though. So pick a side of the theory and go with it. I vote the mist spirit, as it makes more sense.
Even if you do use the mist spirit, though, there is a problem. If the Hero of Ages, in order to defeat Ruin, must gain the knowledge of all of the previous Heroes of Ages, then how did the first Hero of Ages defeat Ruin? I think it much more likely that the Hero will glean limited knowledge from holding the power at the Well of Ascension, which he/she/it can then use to piece together what they need to know.
Well if the deepness is indeed the mist, and the mist spirit is the collective souls of the HOA's then is it not one and the same?
Short answer: No.
Long answer: No. The deepness-mist kills people and things and stays out during the day. The other (I think I'm going to call it lord ruler) LR-mist goes away during the day and is relatively harmless at night.
Prophecy means a religious, or supernatural promise of the coming of a future event(disaster/prosperity) or person(anionted one/apollyon). So if the tellers of a prophecy could perdict the future, couldn't they see the Ruin changing the prophecy at hand, and then actually succeeding? wouldn't a prophecy be able to foresee this? Of cousre, it would. And i believe it did. The real prophecy probably tells of the Ruin coming up great power and a great person of that age would...and the Ruin would be destroyed, and all will be good again. The Expected.
Actually, to prophesy something, you don't have to be able to see the future. I read a series once where the whole way through you are hearing things from prophecies that tell how the Heroes will defeat the villain in a very vague way (as most prophecies do). Then you get to the end of the series and the main character finds a letter from the original person who wrote the prophecies. In said letter, the guy states that he made the entire thing up to fill a need that he knew would one day come, and in the hope that the prophecies would give the heroes the courage they needed to fill the role of the hero.
And though it is only semi-related, I don't think Ruin can be destroyed. If it is, the world would be taken over by Preservation, and everything would stagnate. If they were both destroyed...that's an interesting question.
My opinion is that the prophecy is that the H.O. of that A. must unite him or herself with the mist spirit, not attain the power of the well. how do i know? because the Ruin has the power, so it definitly not that...so what else has appeared or distinguished itself since the death of the TLR? The Mist spirit.
We know that Vin will find a way to do it without the power of the well (unless there are two wells as some (including me) theorize[though with little proof]). We don't know that it can't be done with the power of the well. In fact, The Lord Ruler seems to indicate that it can be done with the power of the well.
And Ruin may not actually have the power. It's possible (and even likely) that the power is some type of Preservation (hence what the Lord Ruler did seeming to be of Preservation). Thus, if the power was of Preservation, it is logical to assume that it is what was trapping Ruin. So it's entirely possible that Vin released the power back to Preservation, and Ruin is now just free in its natural (unrestricted) form.
another something that only convinces me further. Remember back to when Vin fought TLR? what did she use to do it....? yes, i know, im genius. Grin. Which would explain why the Ruin would spread rumors about the mist, getting people to turn away from it. Did the mist really kill people? or was it there superstiousness that made for there starvation? think about it? has anyone ever been reported to have been killed by the mist from a reliable source?
She used the mist through allomancy, which leads me to believe that the mists of the time were of preservation (though the deepness mists probably aren't) and were able to be burned by allomancy (which I also think is of preservation).
the kandra hold a secret, a dear, dear secret. Vin knows it. And you and i know it. Thats my thoery of how she could do it.
There I think you have something. There is a good chance that the Kandra know several things that will be critical in the long run.
Surely, the mist spirit would have wanted Vin to keep the power and not let the ruin have it--that doesn't mean she was supposed to keep it. It's just a better option. If she was indeed MEANT and supposed to have the power, doesn't she? The Prophecy, and i mean the true and unkown prophecy, has not come to pass. Otherwise we wouldnt have a book left of reading.
if something is meant for you, you can never lose it.
Firstly, if something is meant for you, that means absolutely nothing whatsoever. I could send a gift to you right now, and it would be meant for you. That does not in any way mean that it will reach you, or that you will not eventually lose it. In the same way, just because the power is meant for the Hero, does not mean that the hero will take the power. Or, if the power is meant for the hero, does not mean that the hero will not lose the power (as Vin did).
I would like to point out once again that it is quite likely that Ruin does not have the power that Vin held at the Well of Ascension.
The only other factor in the story, other than the Ruin and the Well, that has become a factor post TLR's death, is the mist spirit.
That's possibly the least true statement I've ever seen. Think about everything that was introduced in the second book... We learn more about hemalurgy, we meet Zane, we learn about the kandra, we learn how to control Koloss, we learn about feruchemy....We pick up all sorts of interesting things. The mist spirit is not in any way the only other factor introduced.
Give it some considerable thought, and if it doesn't hold up i'll be the first to eat my hat.
Careful what you say... If you're proven wrong, we'll give you recipes. Then we'll expect you to post the video of you eating your hat online and provide a link.
Other than that, I pretty much agree with Chaos and SarahG.
-
Ok, I will examine your posts in great detail and see what I can come up with right off the top.
Quote
We know the well was always there but we assume it is meant for the HOA--what if thats wrong. What if the Well was meant for Ruin? And It was up to the Hero to Destroy it after the fact? What if It returned every "Age" and an Anointed warrior is chosen for each uprising?
Umm....What? I'm a little confused. Are you suggesting that the well of ascension was meant for a super-deity that wants to turn the world into a bunch of unorganized matter? Lack of foresight on someone's part, there...
I'm suggesting that The Well is meant to be the evil, or the great power that the HOA must defeat. The Well is the CORE of the issue.
Quote
Perhaps whoever the next HOA is just one of many...perhaps there were hundreds--spread thousands of years apart?
So the question rises, then how come we don't know of the others before TLR?
This is possible, and is a good idea. However, I must state that this is not the wheel of time. Brandon has not made numerous references to cyclic history. I would also like to point out that it's entirely possible that the hero of ages in previous times (if this is the case) did not have access to the same abilities as Vin, and therefore (if this is the case) we can rule out allomancy as being important (Which, I think, is not the case).
If there were previous Heroes of Ages, you would think there would at least be legends about them, as opposed to a bunch of random religious prophecies.
Another point. The title of the book is THE Hero of Ages. This is not by any means confirmation that there is only one hero, but it seems to imply it. And even Hero of Ages as a title tends to imply that there is only one hero of ages. But, it is entirely possible.
Ok, ask yourself where Allomancy was born...answer that and then i will continue with this part of the debate, if it has not become aparrent.
HERO by definition is a person who has died for the cuase. Or in Battle with glory. Perhaps each hero must Die. Another is that the lord ruler, like hitler, would have destroyed anything that suggests or prooves this.
As has already been mentioned, I think you are referring to the word "martyr." Hero has no such connotation. In fact, all it means is someone who other people (or a person) admire. This is usually because of something cool that they did, like save the world, but not necessarily.
Ehm. In Greek Mythology, from which the word Hero orginates, when a warriors sets out to war, like in Troy or the like, if s/he shows great valor in battle, they become or are refered to one of two names; Champion and Hero. Whats the difference? A Hero dies before the war is over...
Where does the Deepness come in?
I believe that the deepness is the spirit of the HOA's of the past.
This is where you really start to stretch it. You're suggesting that the deepness (some terrible thing that killed hundreds of people and convinced everyone that unless it was stopped would destroy the world) is made of the souls of past Heroes of Ages (who are supposed to somehow save the world)? Doesn't really make sense, though again, it's plausible.
Why do you say that it is terrible? What proof have we that it is truely that? The superstions of naive skaa, they only fear it because of the MistWraiths! We know that it has killed some people, as Sazed has found, but it has let others live--which means it is killing for a reason and not just for the sake of. Thus why its killin decides whether its evil or not. We do not know why yet, so the rest is speculation. The Deepness being good is just as pluasible as the latter. I say its good. I say that the Ruin, which has corrupted the Prophecy, only lead people to believe so--for the same reason, or atleast in relation to its purpose.
Quote
it wasn't there before TLR because with him still alive, the spirit could not remain.
Why not?
So are you suggesting that the Lord Ruler is also a Hero of Ages? That's an interesting thought.
And if the above statements are true, then this makes a lot of sense, though you seem to be merging the mist spirit and the deepness in your theory, which doesn't really make sense for reasons I'll get into in a moment.
"Why not" what? Are you referring to why couldn't the spirit remain here, or why would this theory not work, or something entirely different?
TLR, was the HOA, because he arrived at the Well. I'll Elaborate further below. I suspect that the Deepness is apart of the mist spirit, or atleast that the Mist Spirit is connected to it in a manner. Other then that, i could only imagine.
Quote
I think that the chosen HOA, must unite himself with the deepness....This would explain Vin's battle with the TLR...when she thought she had used the mist....
That is a really cool idea. However, as has been mentioned, we have no idea how the hero will defeat the deepness because we don't really know that much about the deepness
.
Thats not an arguement! Saying we have no idea is a paradox of a statement. Had we already known how she must do it--then speculation and theories wouldn't exist! Therefore, my thoughts would either be right or wrong, here, we can either agree, disagree, or nuetralize ourselves. BUT no matter which side you choose, this is an IDEA. LOL. So you do have an Idea, you have plenty.
...perhaps he was just stalling for the real HOA to come and, this is going to sound far fetched, stopped time, there by putting a stop to the Ruins usurpment.
Not if the Lord Ruler is actually a Hero of Ages as you suggested above. Otherwise, him being alive should not keep the mist spirit from showing up by your logic. There could be other reasons why it can't come while he's alive, but not that he's a hero of ages. Or, alternately, the Lord Ruler is a Hero of Ages and is doing something to stop Ruin. Or a combination of the two.
Actually, i have updated this from further analysis, he is the HOA, and i didn't mean stall, bad choice of words. Lets just say that the events that should have occured back in Alendi's time have been...postponed? or set aside.
sure, those could be possible, i say as the HOA, he bore the mist spirit within him.
Ok, i have to go Pray the Sunset prayer so i will end it at that. I will continue later, if i remain. However let this be said. The Well is For the Ruin, like the Ring is for Saramon, the HOA must reach the well...obtain the power that is not his/hers and--brace yourselves...kill himself.
thats another possible theory that i thought of. but i dont know.
Perhaps, when the mist spirit stabbed Elend, he meant to show Vin that she needed to kill herself...
this is a different thought.
-
...I'm pretty sure that Vin's anyalasis of the Mist spirit stabbing Elend was mostly accurate. How else would the MS be able to get Vin to keep from releasing Ruin? Of course, Vin obviously did some minor changing while she had the power from the WOA, maybe there's other, more subtle results other than Elend becoming Mistborn.
What I want to know is the Origin of Allomancy. The story says that the LR gave it to the men who helped him reach the WOA, but did it exist before or was it completely created by him? My theory is that he created it along with the LR mists so he'd have more of an advantage once the power rush from the WOA wore off.
-
I'm suggesting that The Well is meant to be the evil, or the great power that the HOA must defeat. The Well is the CORE of the issue.
Hmmm. That's an interesting idea. I don't personally like it, but I can't disprove it with anything off the top of my head, so for the moment, it stands as a possibility.
Ok, ask yourself where Allomancy was born...answer that and then i will continue with this part of the debate, if it has not become aparrent.
Actually, we have absolutely no confirmation on when allomancy originated. We know that the first mistborn (that we know of) originated with the Lord Ruler's Ascension. That does not by any means mean that allomancy was not around before that.
Ehm. In Greek Mythology, from which the word Hero orginates, when a warriors sets out to war, like in Troy or the like, if s/he shows great valor in battle, they become or are refered to one of two names; Champion and Hero. Whats the difference? A Hero dies before the war is over...
In English (Brandon's native language), a hero is someone who others admire. There is no reason to think that we are going with the Greek mythology definition instead of the English one. It's a possibility, but I think that Hero means hero, as in someone who others admire.
The Deepness must be destroyed, and apparently I’m the only one who can do so. It ravages the world even now. If I don’t stop it soon, there will be nothing left of this land but bones and dust.
22 – At first, there were those who didn’t think the Deepness was a serious danger, at least not to them. However, it brought with it a blight that I have seen infect nearly every part of the land. Armies are useless before it. Great cities are laid low by its power. Crops fail, and the land dies.
This is the thing I fight. This is the monster I must defeat. I fear that I have taken too long. Already, so much destruction has occurred that I fear for mankind’s survival.
Is this truly the end of the world, as many of the philosophers predict ?
28 – Sometimes, my companions claim that I worry and question too much. However, while I may wonder about my stature as the Hero, there is one thing that I have never questioned: the ultimate good of our quest.
The Deepness must be destroyed. I have seen it, and I have felt it. This name we give it is too weak a word, I think. Yes, it is deep and unfathomable, but it is also terrible. Many do not realize that its sentient, but I have sensed its mind, such that it is, the few times I have confronted it directly.
It is a thing of destruction, madness, and corruption. It would destroy this world not out of spite or out of animosity, but simply because that is what it does.
29 – The others all think I should have had Kwaan executed for betraying me. To tell the truth, I’d probably kill him this moment if I knew where he’d gone. At the time, however, I just couldn’t do it.
The man had become like a father to me. To this day, I don’t know why he suddenly decided that I wasn’t the Hero. Why did he turn against me, denouncing me to the entire Conclave of Worldbringers?
Would he rather that the Deepness win ? Surely, even if I’m not the right one – as Kwaan now claims – my presence at the Well of Ascension couldn’t possibly be worse than what will happen if the Deepness continues to destroy the land.
18 If only the Deepness hadn’t come when it did, providing a threat that drove men to desperation both in action and belief.
46 The two are not the same.
I sense a craftiness behind these changes, a manipulation subtle and brilliant. I have spent the last two years in exile, trying to decipher what the alterations could mean. I have come to only one conclusion. Something has taken control of our religion, something that cannot be trusted. It misleads, and it shadows. It uses Alendi to destroy, leading him along a path of death and sorrow. It is pulling him toward the Well of Ascension, where the millennial power has gathered. I can only guess that it sent the Deepness as a method of making mankind more desperate, of pushing us to do as it wills.
That's why I think the Deepness is terrible.
The mist spirit being connected to the deepness does not make any sense. The only evidence so far I've seen to suggest it is this theory. If you could present something to support this, it would help.
And the Hero of Ages killing themselves while holding the power would be REALLY anti-climactic. Besides, we know this can't be the solution (unless there's a second well) because Vin already released the power and there obviously has to be some sort of resolution to the series.
-
My god this page is growing to like a page a day. I feel like I am reading a book. Not a bad thing.
-
The story says that the LR gave it to the men who helped him reach the WOA
This is another thing I do not quite understand. Rashek supposedly hated those from Khlennium with a passion and probably anyone else outside of Terris, yet he enslaves his fellow Terrismen while giving Allomancy to people he most likely hates. Presumably the only reason he put the Terrismen into breeding programs in the first place was so that another Lord Ruler couldn't be created. Why not just destroy Allomancy and leave your own people alone? Something doesn't add up.
-
That's why I think the Deepness is terrible.
The mist spirit being connected to the deepness does not make any sense. The only evidence so far I've seen to suggest it is this theory. If you could present something to support this, it would help.
And the Hero of Ages killing themselves while holding the power would be REALLY anti-climactic. Besides, we know this can't be the solution (unless there's a second well) because Vin already released the power and there obviously has to be some sort of resolution to the series.
WEAK. All of your quotes were weak. Each one was of either a speculation or a character assuming that the Deepness was the problem...weak. However, i have updated my theory, for many obvious reasons, and i think you might agree. What if the mist doesn't become the Deepness until the sun rises? That would explain why it's begining to cling on a little while longer after sunrise. It would also explain why the Deepness was such a bother then; at night not many people were out on the streets--but during the day? Problem.
Is that a better theory?
-
First of all who are you quoting? Second of all who the heck are you? Who said that you couldn't speculate? Most people don't take too kindly to other people calling them out the way you are starting to do. Personally I find if you don't like someones idea then drive on with whatever idea you had and ignore their post. There is no reason for you to be rude. None at all and frankly, I don't care if you feel your post has more credibility some of the things that we take as fact now were born of sheer speculation. I wish I was around here when people were speculating on what Ruin was or Hermology. I'm glad you weren't. Keep your thoughts to yourself unless they are kind or useful.
-
Okay, okay, that's enough. We've done two days on the Hero of Ages discussing elmandr's theory. Time to switch gears, not grind to a halt.
I like spejoku's idea for T-25 days. Specifically, the Origin of Allomancy.
Discuss!
(If you want to discuss the HoA theory more, then use the "Vin as HoA" topic. That's sort of become the topic where HoA ideas are talked about)
-
Agreed.
I've heard somepeople suggest that Allomancy was born from TLR during or shortly after his ascention. I don't know if I follow this thinking. I feel that both Ruin and Preservation are tied to a power, Ruin and Hermology, and Preservation and Allomancy. Now this is SPECULATION but Ruin can obviously use hermology right. I have for some reason tied the mist spirit to Preservation seeing how it attempted to stop Vin from releasing Ruin. The spirit has some sort of Allomancy so I assume Preservation has something to do with allomancy as well.
If any of this happens to turn out to be true then I feel its safe to say that Allomancy found its roots before TLR and perhaps it was from a previous HoA if there even were any or perhaps it was born of Preservation it self.
-
Agreed.
I've heard somepeople suggest that Allomancy was born from TLR during or shortly after his ascention. I don't know if I follow this thinking. I feel that both Ruin and Preservation are tied to a power, Ruin and Hermology, and Preservation and Allomancy. Now this is SPECULATION but Ruin can obviously use hermology right. I have for some reason tied the mist spirit to Preservation seeing how it attempted to stop Vin from releasing Ruin. The spirit has some sort of Allomancy so I assume Preservation has something to do with allomancy as well.
If any of this happens to turn out to be true then I feel its safe to say that Allomancy found its roots before TLR and perhaps it was from a previous HoA if there even were any or perhaps it was born of Preservation it self.
Though you may be on to something, you left it to open and with too many options. If indeed allomancy arrived after TLR, then it can't be apart of the Mist spirit. Given that we know that the mist spirit prior to TLR's ascension.
So your thought of It coming from another, past, HOA makes more sense.
P.S. If you look at the past few posts between Andrew and I, you will see that we both were exchanging the same sort of criticism. I Don't do it to other random people such as yourself. I'm sorry you were so deeply hurt. I suggestion analyse the situation before outing yourself. SPECULATION without an analytic basis is just assumption. Anyone who has been the victom of anothers ASSUMPTION has the right to be angry. I pass that right. Lets just stick to the Thread. ;D.
I, myself, thought this question was answered? I thought that the metal that Vin fed to Elend is the explanation of Allomancy. However, if the question is who was the first Allomancer? I'd have to say...TLR. He found it at the WOA back when he first arrived, a thousand years back. I don't think it was one of his creations.
He gave the power of Allomancy to the nobles right, thats the belief. hmm. That gives me an idea.
Alendi, insecure and afraid as he was, decides to, after intensive presuation and insistence of Rashek, to let Rashek obtain the power at the WOA. The mist spirit stabs Alendi, So Rashek, gives him the Mysterious tablet, therebye saving his life and making him the first MB.
So, that too. Either TLR or Alendi (only because that would explain why he gave the powers to another people.)
-
Ok were cool.
The thing about allomancy is I thought it did come from before TLR. And if and its a big if allomancy comes from this bead then it could have existed for ever. The idea of some bead granting allomantic powers is still a little far of a stretch for me. I mean If she gave him a bigger bead would he have been a stronger mistborn? We don't know. I think either a past HoA created allomancy or it comes from Preservation.
-
It's also quite possible that TLR created the beads. If he had the power to move planets, I don't think it's that far-fetched that he created a bead that could alter your DNA.
-
Ok were cool.
The thing about allomancy is I thought it did come from before TLR. And if and its a big if allomancy comes from this bead then it could have existed for ever. The idea of some bead granting allomantic powers is still a little far of a stretch for me. I mean If she gave him a bigger bead would he have been a stronger mistborn? We don't know. I think either a past HoA created allomancy or it comes from Preservation.
Essentially it comes down to where Atium and...Mistium, we'll call it, came from. If we figure that, out i think we will find the answer to where Allomancy came from.
Was the Bead CREATED to grant allomantic powers or FOUND? YOU see if it was created, it might very well be TLR, or it might have been a chemical reaction the earth had from being exposed to the WOA for so long--that could be another thing. It can also be FOUND, if that is the case...it might have been around before the Terris people.
-
The thing is IF this bead even grants allomantic powers. If it is the source then what decides if a person is going to be a misborn or misting? Is it genetic dilution or something else? Another question is after the bead is taken (if it grants allomantic powers) then does the trait then get passed on genetically?
-
The thing is IF this bead even grants allomantic powers. If it is the source then what decides if a person is going to be a misborn or misting? Is it genetic dilution or something else? Another question is after the bead is taken (if it grants allomantic powers) then does the trait then get passed on genetically?
I assume two things. First, that the bead grants the consumer full Mistborn traits. Second, these traits can be passed down just like every other trait and just like every other trait, can disappear and reappear down the line.
-
I have extensive theories about the nature of Allomancy and where it came from.
As you may remember, I believe that Allomancy is actually caused by the Mists. I won't go into great detail here (if you want detail, I talk about it in the topic called "The Mists", which is now on Page 4 of the forums. By the way, a lot of good theory topics have fallen back to page 3 and 4 like Hemalurgy--that's how its spelled, GM :P--and the Metal Lake. I blame it on Utopia), but the point is, I have a firm belief that the mists are integral to the understanding of Allomancy.
Sazed says Allomancy first came out with the mists (see the Epilogue, MB1). In the prologue, it is heavily implied that the Lord Ruler could have found Allomancy at the Well of Ascension. Now, we know that Rashek held the Power, but that does not mean he couldn't have "found" Allomancy there as well.
The mists are the fundamental basis for the magic systems. The mists, prior to the Ascension, existed solely in the form of the Deepness, killing at Ruin's bidding to lead Alendi to the Well of Ascension so Ruin could be freed. There is no record of Allomancy pre-Ascension, but Feruchemy existed for certain. Possibly, Hemalurgy existed as well, pre-Ascension.
If you read The Mists topic, I say that if the Mists are foundational to the magic systems, and we find no evidence of mist-based magics (Allomancy and Hemalurgy) pre-Ascension. The Lord Ruler could have done something to the mists themselves to allow Allomancy and Hemalurgy to occur.
-
The mists, prior to the Ascension, existed solely in the form of the Deepness
How do we know this? In one of Alendi's bumps he states
We are close now. Oddly, this high in the mountains, we seem to finally be free from the oppressive touch of the Deepness. It has been quite a while since I knew what that was like.
The lake that Fedik discovered is below us now—I can see it from the ledge. It looks even more eerie from up here, with its glassy—almost metallic—sheen. I almost wish I had let him take a sample of its waters.
Perhaps his interest was what angered the mist creature that follows us. Perhaps . . . that was why it decided to attack him, stabbing him with its invisible knife.
He mentions both the Deepness and the mist creature but does not connect them. If they were one in the same, he would have said that it was the deepness that attacked Fedik.
If you read The Mists topic, I say that if the Mists are foundational to the magic systems, and we find no evidence of mist-based magics (Allomancy and Hemalurgy) pre-Ascension.
Alendi had the Piercings of the Hero, possibly being Hemalurgy related. I agree however, we find no evidence that these existed pre-ascension, however lack of metion is not proof that they did not exist.
The Lord Ruler could have done something to the mists themselves to allow Allomancy and Hemalurgy to occur.
Totally agree.
-
That's a good point about the difference between the Deepness and the mist spirit in his description of attacking Fedik. I seem to remember that at the end of Well of Ascension, there is a black mist around it. Perhaps pre-Ascension, the mists appeared black, but Rashek changed it to white to... uh... do what he did. Yeah.
Either way, black mist is probably important in some way or another.
-
That's a good point about the difference between the Deepness and the mist spirit in his description of attacking Fedik. I seem to remember that at the end of Well of Ascension, there is a black mist around it. Perhaps pre-Ascension, the mists appeared black, but Rashek changed it to white to... uh... do what he did. Yeah.
Either way, black mist is probably important in some way or another.
Perhaps the mist spirit can be controlled by both Ruin and Preservation. Sometimes it kills people because Ruin gets the upper hand, sometimes the people survive because Preservation wins. They get shook to the ground because it's like two people fighting over a stick. The mist spirit appears near Elend twice. Once looking like it is going to kill him and the other, right after Vin leaves and it directs Elend away from Luthadel, perhaps toward another well. When it tries to prevent Vin from getting in the well by attacking Elend, preservation could have been in full control because Ruin was preoccupied with controlling Marsh against Sazed. Heck, maybe there's just two different mists entirely, we just don't have much to go by at this point.
-
I haven't read everything previous, just skimmed it, so I may be repeating here, but...
I personally feel that allomancy was around before the ascension, but not right before it. Like, it had been created, but was not in use. I also think that it is likely that this is due to a condition of the mists that was not being met that was required for allomancy to work. I think it likely that the lord ruler made the changes necessary for it to work. But this is all insane speculation, and I have no real evidence to support it.
WEAK. All of your quotes were weak. Each one was of either a speculation or a character assuming that the Deepness was the problem...weak. However, i have updated my theory, for many obvious reasons, and i think you might agree. What if the mist doesn't become the Deepness until the sun rises? That would explain why it's begining to cling on a little while longer after sunrise. It would also explain why the Deepness was such a bother then; at night not many people were out on the streets--but during the day? Problem.
Is that a better theory?
Ummm.....I'm kind of at a loss here. So you're telling me that you're going to present a theory based entirely off of speculation, then when I provide evidence to counteract it you tell me that it's weak? When you have anything at all out of the books to support your theory I'll listen to you. However, as per Chaos request, we shall discuss it in the Vin as HOA thread.
In defense of my quotes, they are not in any way shape or form weak. These are characters from the time of the deepness describing it in Primary Sources. Who would know better what the deepness is than someone who has seen it and has seen what it can do? But even if your seriously going to debate that Alendi and Kwaan don't know anything about the deepness.... EVERYONE in the current mistborn world thinks of the deepness as being terrible. You'd think that would give you some clue.
The main problem I can see with the mist not being the deepness till after sunrise is that we have numerous examples of people going out after sunrise and not being deepness-ified. It's possible, but I still think it likely that the deepness and the mists are two separate things. It just fits better with the logic of what we've been able to work out so far.
I have one primary complaint to lodge, elmandr1. You request that we all support our opinions to debunk your theories with evidence, but I have yet to see anything from the books backing you up. If you're going to require that we supply quotes to get rid of your theories, and want it to be seen as more than just wishful speculation, then you have to provide quotes to establish plausibility. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad you're suggesting ideas, but you seem to come up with an idea, post it before it's fully formed, then let it develop based on response. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but once it's up, you attack anyone who tries to present evidence to the contrary and modify it left and right till no one knows what you're talking about.
That being said, I do really enjoy the discussion you generate, as well as the fact that you are presenting new ideas. You seem to be an extremely pleasant person, and one who is easy to converse with. You also seem to be quite intelligent. Please don't think I mean to insult you with this post, because I don't. But please try to not be so defensive of your theories. We're here to figure out what is going to happen before the book comes out. We all get theories shot down all the time. If evidence is presented that revives the theory, I revise my opinion based on the evidence. Until then, I consider it likely that the theory won't happen (or at least not all of it. There are parts that I really like).
If I totally misread the tone of your posts, please forgive me, but it seems to me that you're trying too hard to defend it when you don't have any evidence. You can still believe it, obviously, but don't waste you time trying to convince me without anything to support. So, I guess what I'm saying is we'll have to agree to disagree.
Edit. Just found this comment from you in another thread. It expresses what I'm trying to say quite well.
At this point its pure speculation, I have found that a lot of the good theorizing that goes on here is often brought out by pure and simple speculation. Once a good theory is formed then it is time to go investigate. Why would I spend the time looking into it if I posted an idea and someone told me I was "wrong and here's why" right off the bat. I like to test ideas off of the other posters first. Plus that gives others the chance to think about the idea and investigate for themselves giving alternate perspectives on the same idea.
Ehm. i didn't say you were wrong, i just find it difficult to accept a rejection to a theory unless the reject or or debater presented some sort of explanation.
From what i understand, you want to counter for the sake of? huh? i don't mean to offend you. Really. I'm all for hearing all kinds of theories, and though it may not seem so but i have been researching everything you and i have discussed in this and other threads. When you can prove otherwise or i can find reason to stray from this theory, i will update and present it.
when people are speculating you need to test their theories with the straight forward question, the obvious. If it can survive that, then it can be deem meritable. Other wise its just another thought.
Listen to yourself. You say their just speculation but defend them like their religion. I don't deny being wrong when i am so. Really. However, i expect you and myself to present topics and theories that you've at least thought some about--it helps to wash out all the unnecessary posts.
-
I haven't read everything previous, just skimmed it, so I may be repeating here, but...
I personally feel that allomancy was around before the ascension, but not right before it. Like, it had been created, but was not in use. I also think that it is likely that this is due to a condition of the mists that was not being met that was required for allomancy to work. I think it likely that the lord ruler made the changes necessary for it to work. But this is all insane speculation, and I have no real evidence to support it.
Yes, I think that was what I was trying to get at, but failing miserably.
-
So is anyone going to start a new theory tomorrow?
-
So is anyone going to start a new theory tomorrow?
You could always give us a prompt, like you did with T-30.
If not... well, it's all up for grabs. Innovation, people, innovation!
-
I want to give other people a chance.
-
I want to give other people a chance.
I think you just don't want to give away more secrets :P
Anyways. Next poster can decide on a topic. Or something. Make it a good one!
-
I want to give other people a chance.
I already gave a topic, but i will wait 'till ten tomorrow. If one has yet to be forged, then i shall take the hammer!
Excuse me, i just ate corn.
-
How about allomantic stretching and breaking? Kelsier mentions in the first book that using allomancy too much does things to the body. Stretches it, and can even cause it to eventually break. And there are multiple times when people worry about either Vin or Spook using pewter and tin (respectively) too much.
Thoughts?
-
How about allomantic stretching and breaking? Kelsier mentions in the first book that using allomancy too much does things to the body. Stretches it, and can even cause it to eventually break. And there are multiple times when people worry about either Vin or Spook using pewter and tin (respectively) too much.
Thoughts?
"Pewter Drag" is the term you are looking for. This is the word for the culmination of the exhaustion the body undergoes when an allomancer travels long distances through the use of pewter, or flares pewter for an extended period of time. It takes effect when the allomancer ceases to burn the pewter which causes the said exhaustion to immediatly spread across the body--thus you have Pewter Drag.
My understanding of this is, if the body becomes too reliant on the Allomancy it will eventually become fully dependent.
In the same sense as; if someone was to remain seated for too long, they begin to loose muscle mass in their legs...
-
How about allomantic stretching and breaking? Kelsier mentions in the first book that using allomancy too much does things to the body. Stretches it, and can even cause it to eventually break. And there are multiple times when people worry about either Vin or Spook using pewter and tin (respectively) too much.
Thoughts?
Actually, elmandr, it is sort of like stretching as Qarlin says. In the second edition paperback of MB1, it has a sample chapter of HoA and it explains that Spook uses his tin so much that his Allomancy has far surpassed a normal Tineye, with a more subtle command over it. It applies to all Allomancy.
I think this is the reason why Inquisitors can see with the Ironlines. They HAVE to use Iron/steel so much to even see, so this effects them, and they have a much subtler touch with their Iron. It's not Hemalurgy-related; Brandon said that any Allomancer can learn to see like an Inquisitor. Well, this is the best explanation as to why.
-
So what I'm wondering is if there's gonna be breaking, and not just stretching. Specifically with Vin and her constant Pewter dragging.
-
This is an interstesting question. If you read the sample chapter in the newer MB1 then you can see that the effects of long term burns changes the user. Spook is changed dramatically by his extended use of tin. Now I am not sure if there is a breaking point. It seem logical that there would be one. But it is plainly obvious that even though using a metal to such extremes has advantages it has strong draw backs as well. Spook speaks about how having super senses all the time is a draw back. Like during the day things might get too bright. I could see significant draw backs that would be associated with the other metals as well. I know this doesn't answer the question but it might be helpful.
-
So what would be the drawback of Pewter? Near as we've seen, the only drawback is crashing for a few days after working too hard. Would the stretching mean you could go longer without sleep, and be stronger and all that?
OR, would the stretching mean being stronger, more balanced, blah blah, but the drawback is you need to rest more often, like an inquisitor? Or could that be what happens when you break?
-
I think Vin might push herself too far at the very end of the book. But we still really don't know.
As for spook, I think he'll likely end up with no senses. No ability to see, hear, touch, taste.....Yeah, that'd suck.
But ya know....Vin doesn't pewter drag all the time. In fact, she rarely does. I can recall 1 or 2 times so far that she has. She does use her metals a lot, but doesn't flare them all the time. So, actually, I don't think it will be Vin that shows us what happens, but Spook.
-
I think Vin might push herself too far at the very end of the book. But we still really don't know.
As for spook, I think he'll likely end up with no senses. No ability to see, hear, touch, taste.....Yeah, that'd suck.
But ya know....Vin doesn't pewter drag all the time. In fact, she rarely does. I can recall 1 or 2 times so far that she has. She does use her metals a lot, but doesn't flare them all the time. So, actually, I don't think it will be Vin that shows us what happens, but Spook.
Actually, though Vin doesn't flare her pewter, she does keep a constant burn. Throughout book 2, she barely slept, always on night watch's and chasing the mist spirit, and when she wasn't doing that she fighting a band of assassins.
So she just might "break" if there is such a thing.
-
The problem with burning it constantly is that you become dependent on it. You feel weak without it. Not that you "break." You break when you flare too often because you push your body further and further. It's like taking more and more of a drug...eventually you overdose. However, if you take the same dosage forever, you don't die of overdose. That and allomancy still has the same potency, it just starts to feel normal.
-
In an annotation--I believe it was MB1, where Vin first pewter-dragged--Brandon said that the consequences of pewter-dragging would become clear in Book Three, when Vin has to run to three different places in the Empire to get what needs to be done.
-
I don't remember that particular annotation. Have it handy, or do I have to go look?
-
I don't remember that particular annotation. Have it handy, or do I have to go look?
No, I'll search for it, because I'm procrastinating writing this paper.
Muwha! I found it! MB1, Part One!
I hope that pewter dragging doesn't seem like something I just pulled out of my hat. I hate it when authors just suddenly come up with new elements of their magic systems. (See my recent article on how to write magic systems for more.) Instead, I find it better when the characters find new ways to apply what they can already do.
This seems to be a natural outgrowth of pewter to me. Plus, I did need a way to get Kelsier and Vin to the battlefield with some manner of speed. In these books, I've found getting people where they need to be at the right time to be one of the most challenging aspects of the series. In book three, I have one character crossing half the continent, then having to run back the other way, just so he can get where he needs to be for the end of the book.
Correction: I guess that would mean Elend, not Vin. Silly me assuming that when Kelsier died, that automatically implies it would be Vin to do Mistborn-y things.
-
Sorry for double-post. I found a topic for tomorrow, even though we are a good four hours away (in Mountain time, at least). I'm rereading through all the MB1 annotations--curse you, Andrew for sending me on such an enjoyable distraction. I found this one particularly interesting:
I like this scene for its return to task. The team is refocused, and re-energized, working toward their goal with renewed devotion. And lots of other 're' words.
Anyway, there's a good feel to this scene, and I think a lot is accomplished quickly. I also like how Vin finally confronts Kelsier about the Eleventh Metal. Right here, I guess the reader has to decide whether or not Kelsier is lying. Either he really did find legends about the Eleventh Metal, and he believes in it, or he didn't.
The answer is, by the way, yes. He did find those legends--legends that Sazed hasn't heard of. Legends nobody else has heard of. That is suspicious, true, but Kelsier himself believed them. More on where he got them comes later in the series.
See what I mean when Brandon says "later in the series"? :P The topic, then, is about the origins of the 11th metal, Malatium.
While we are on the subject, I'd really like for other people to tell me how they pronounce "atium". I'm pretty sure it's a hard T, but when I first read it I made it into some sort of a "sch" sound. I've always wondered what the correct pronounciation is.
-
I probably would have made the same assumption - I'm not used to Elend being mistborn yet. Anyway, thanks for quote hunting. I appreciate your kindness in facilitating my laziness.
Ok, origins of the 11th metal is a good topic. I don't really know off the top of my head. Let me think about it for a bit then come back.
A (as in bay) - Tee- Um.
However, that being said, I pronounce Malatium as Malayshum. Not really sure why, but hey....
-
Atium's first name was...Atrium. Which was already a word, so Brandon took out the R.
-
Atium's first name was...Atrium. Which was already a word, so Brandon took out the R.
Good thing he changed that one. And good thing I now know how to pronounce it right.
Andrew, I always pronounced "atium" something like how you do malatium. Only with a long "A" sound at the start. a-SHEE-um. I'm not quite sure what I was thinking...
-
I have now come up with a rather profound answer to the topic. The origins of malatium lie with.... atium. So there.
No, but seriously, it would most likely be discovered somewhere where atium was plentiful. So that gives us a couple of options.
1) The Pits of Hathsin - Someone at the pits got enough extra atium to play around with alloys. Not likely. The only real possibility here that I can think of is Gemmel.
2) The Lord Ruler - decided to play around with it for some reason or another. It gets leaked to someone somewhere, and kelsier hears about it.
3) Other Unknown Atium mine - Somewhere we haven't seen that also produces atium and isn't strictly controlled by the lord ruler.
He also had to hear about it from someone who knew it was the key to defeating the lord ruler, which makes option 2 seem more likely. However, it's possible it came from elsewhere.
-
Also, there is Gemmel, Kelsier's Mistborn teacher. He could have something to do with it.
The fact that atium is so rare and so unique in the Mistborn world has always been very odd. And judging whenever I mention that fact, Ookla (and even some other alpha readers, I think) act very mysterious. Like, more mysterious than normal. We're on to something there.
I don't think a second atium mine exists. If there was, then the Lord Ruler would have mined it along with the Pits.
-
Malatium could come from the kandra, since that's the only source for legends I can think of besides Sazed, or some random etching. Maybe that's what the Kandra do with all the atium; the alloy is more useful to them than the pure metal.
-
Malatium could come from the kandra, since that's the only source for legends I can think of besides Sazed, or some random etching. Maybe that's what the Kandra do with all the atium; the alloy is more useful to them than the pure metal.
Qarlin, you have no idea how much you just made me smile. I've had the same thought before, and while the malatium-kandra link is nothing to laugh about, I made a radical post on Page 2 of Ruin and Preservation about this very thing!
It's my dumbest theory of all time. The horrible part is that I seem so... certain that I was right.
Eureka! I have discovered the reference! Mists59 is absolutely correct to whatere the reference is. Thank you for that clue :D.
The alpha readers seem hesitant to tell where this reference is. I will mention it precisely. So, if you are a fan who doesn't want the third book ruined before it comes out, I suggest you stop reading this post (and for that matter, future posts that are based on this one). Don't say I didn't warn you.
Page 299, Well of Ascension. Second to last paragraph. Just like mists59 said, it's during the chat where OreSeur discusses religion with Vin.
"Of course not," OreSeur said. "We honor our Contract, even in religion. The stories say that you'll kill yourselves off. You're of Ruin, after all, while the kandra are of Preservation. You're... actually supposed to destroy the world, I believe. Using the koloss as pawns."
I would transcribe more, but I don't want to infringe on Brandon's and Tor's copyrights. Look it up for the full conversation.
This little discussion is so much more than a simple reference to Ruin and Preservation. Let's dissect!
1. Brandon capitalized Ruin and Preservation. That means it's important. We already know they are, but this can just be considered confirmation.
2. "You're of Ruin, after all" OreSeur says. This has some more meaningful implications. First, it means that kandra know of legends. This information just rolls off his tongue, nonchalantly, like it's obvious.
The next couple things go off of the kandra.
3. Earlier on the page, it says that the kandra have a separate religion away from the Lord Ruler's oppression. This is significant because...
4. ...It means that this is how Kelsier found the Eleventh Metal. If kandra are the only things separated from the Lord Ruler, then they would have to be the source of the legends that Kelsier found (see MB1 annotations for more details. Brandon states that he will reveal where Kelsier got these legends in the third book). The question must be asked, then, why the kandra would support Kelsier and tell him legends.
The kandra don't like the Lord Ruler. I've been taking notes on this Well of Ascension readthrough, and I have details supporting this theory.
Page 203 - OreSeur says that more Allomancers existed during the early days of the Final Empire. Mistborn can somehow "find" kandra, and the Lord Ruler was hunting them down with those Mistborn. OreSeur continues that his people created the Contract to stop that hunt.
Furthermore, this animosity is confirmed on Page 118, where Vin recalls that Kelsier said Renoux (OreSeur) had to keep away from Steel Inquisitors and the Lord Ruler.
This is crucial. Earlier in this topic, we came to the consensus that the Lord Ruler touched the Preservation power at the Well of Ascension. As OreSeur says, kandra are of Preservation, humans Ruin. The Lord Ruler, if he is Preservation, perhaps decided to keep the kandra because he and the kandra are both Preservation, but he didn't "create" the kandra. He does not have power over them explicitly. If he had dominance over them, he would not need Mistborn to hunt down the kandra.
Getting back to Kelsier and the kandra. On the aforementioned page 299 of revelation, it says that kandra religion says that they hope that their oppressors (humans) will perish, and they will be free from the Contract. However, they themselves cannot kill humans, because of the Contract. So, to me, it seems logical that if Kelsier was out to hire a kandra (for his plan in MB1) for express purpose of defeating the Lord Ruler, the kandra would be ecstatic to help him.
Going off of the Ruin/Preservation duality, the kandra must know the obvious fact that defeating the Lord Ruler will cause chaos. Well of Ascension shows this explicitly. Warlords are pining for control. People are using the koloss as pawns (not effectively, but still). They are destroying themselves, like OreSeur says.
They did not help Kelsier because they like Kelsier. They want to help Kelsier so the Lord Ruler, humanity's source of Preservation, would die, so humans would do what comes naturally to them. Cause war. Chaos. And well, Ruin. After the years of Ruin, all humanity would die, and the kandra would no longer need the Contract, because you can't serve a people who are dead.
I'm giddy that I'm the one to discover this. Like Kwaan :D.
There's one thing I haven't found. On the first page, Ookla links me here (http://www.timewastersguide.com/forum/index.php?topic=5644.msg117916). There, other Alpha Readers say that the Ruin Entity's name is explicitly referenced in MB2. I've discovered the reference of Ruin and Preservation, but the Ruin Entity's name eludes me.
Suggestions, here? The best I can come up with is that Humanity is the Ruin Entity, or some weird crap like that. Or the Ruin Entity isn't mysterious, but a human. Something like that. Unless I'm missing something, which is entirely possible.
Either way, I feel very certain Kelsier got his legends from the kandra. That much is certain.
And when I'm done with Well of Ascension, I'm going to make another topic. This one about direct references to Steel Inquisitors, in a hope to get some information about Hemalurgy. But that's for another day.
Note, it's less about malatium than just atium. Your theory definitely has merit, Qarlin! But let this be a lesson to us all: it is very, very dangerous to go off on these radical theories. The kandra did not orchestrate the fall of the Final Empire so the humans would all die. If by some insane miracle they actually did, then I will immediately praise this as my Shining Moment of Glory. Until then, it's my Dark Moment of Total Mistborn-drunkenness.
-
Kelsier getting the legends from the Kandra actually makes a lot of sense. I hadn't thought of that before.
-
Well, we successfully failed at doing much theorizing (nor did you comment on my rabid insanity for that kandra theory. For shame!) today, but tomorrow, it's going to be better, right?
T-23 days! What shall we discuss?
-
The WOA,
Ok, whenever i think about this, i always turn back to LOTR. I always wonder--like the ring of saramon--does the power of the WOA effect its holder outside of the abilities it grants?
TLR was a tyrant, and in many ways evil--is this because the of POW (powers of the well,) or was he always that way.
For the holder of the POW,
Does it take away their sanity? physically change them--for better or for worse? Do they become sinister, feral? Godly or angelic? What about the Paranoia factor, TLR slaughtered many skaa rebellians and circumsized the Terris people--careful or paranoid?
-
Sauron's Ring, it never belonged to Saruman. :)
Anyway, I think it just enhances what you already are. Knowing you can only use the power for a very short period of time, you would know that you can't do everything, and even that you don't know everything. You could make mistakes, or do things that would save countless people while killing countless others. You could start to put things in motion that would save the world, but not have enough time with the power to finish it.
What if that's what happened?
-
The epigraph in Sample Chapter 2 Alludes to that very fact, Qarlin. The Well's power gave knowledge but no wisdom. It's like gaining the ability to run 100 miles an hour without learning how to stop safely.
-
So TLR could have started to fix things, realize he didn't have enough time with the power to finish, so he kind of stopped everything until the well filled up again, so he could finish, anchoring the freeze in time to himself, since he should still be around by then.
-
That is as good a theory as any.
-
The epigraph in Sample Chapter 2 Alludes to that very fact, Qarlin. The Well's power gave knowledge but no wisdom. It's like gaining the ability to run 100 miles an hour without learning how to stop safely.
I really like the metaphor. I think this is definitely a possibility. Omniscience is a tricky thing, though. If you had full knowledge of what you could do, you might be able to see all the possibilities of using the power in the blink of an eye. I'm not saying that the well really gives omniscience, but it did seem like it gave a panoramic view when Vin took it in. She could literally see everything. "You could make mistakes..." is about as true as it gets, for our minds at least.
So TLR could have started to fix things, realize he didn't have enough time with the power to finish, so he kind of stopped everything until the well filled up again, so he could finish, anchoring the freeze in time to himself, since he should still be around by then.
That's another thought. I really like looking at the Lord Ruler as a tragic/heroic character. What he said at the end of "The Final Empire" was a bit chilling, to say the least since Vin could have (and probably has) messed things up by killing TLR then failing to use the well to finish the job. I love it!
-
Okay, T-19 days. Theory?
-
The whole landscape will be changed... Again... As the Ashmounts erupt, destroying villages, earthquakes, mayhem and destruction.
-
The whole landscape will be changed... Again... As the Ashmounts erupt, destroying villages, earthquakes, mayhem and destruction.
I'm not sure if this is in question format...but i think that the world, by the end of the trilogy, will be back to the way Kelsier, Mare and now Vin dream it to be. It is constantly repeated.
In book one, right at the begining, when Kelsier is at the Tresting plantation, you get the first hints of the conflict the the story...
Mistborn; The Final Empire, pg. 5
...He had heard whispers of times when once, long ago, the sun had not been red. Times when the sky hadn't been clogged by smoke and ash, when plants hadn't struggled to grow, and when the skaa hadn't been slaves...
Obviously, a portion of the conflict has been resolved, leaving the....list (if you will) with the state of the world left to repair. Quite frankly, i think It would be highly anitclimactic of Sanderson if he does not return the world back to the way it was. IT is brought up in the story far to many times to not seal it by the end of the trilogy--i think we can all agree to that.
So, really, the question is how will the world be restored to its initial state?
-
It may not be completely restored by the end of the book, but I agree there should at least be some overt sign that things are returning to normal.
-
It may not be completely restored by the end of the book, but I agree there should at least be some overt sign that things are returning to normal.
That can also be true...
"and as the ruin whithered away, into the deep abyss of the Ashmounts, Vin turned to something that caught her eye...A red flower. Hope in its blossoming form."
ending the story in that same, not so corney, context, would also be acceptable. In a way, nothing has changed really, but we are left with the closure of knowing that there is hope for the world yet--has he done that before.... ;)
Infact, since we are discussing this, i think this way would probably make more sense. It'll be hard to convince the readers that ten decades worth of TLR can be so easily undone.
-
It'll be hard to convince the readers that ten decades worth of TLR can be so easily undone.
Ten centuries, you mean.
I think it could end that way, a glimmer of hope rather than complete restoration. However, I wouldn't completely rule out a sudden and dramatic change. After all, we get the impression that TLR made all his changes in virtually an instant; if the new HoA somehow has that same opportunity, the world could conceivably be restored in an instant.
-
The first big change could come in the form of stars being visible at night. What better way to let the skaa know they don't have to fear the night than to provide a light?
-
But for the stars to be visible, wouldn't the mists have to disappear? And wouldn't that affect Allomancy? I hope the book doesn't end with Allomancy being destroyed and all the former Allomancers being regular people again.
-
But for the stars to be visible, wouldn't the mists have to disappear? And wouldn't that affect Allomancy? I hope the book doesn't end with Allomancy being destroyed and all the former Allomancers being regular people again.
I've been searching for an hour now, and I can't find it. Somewhere I believe there was a quote from Brandon saying that the magic systems would change drastically at the end of book 3. I got the distinct impression that they would still work, but that it would take more effort/something would have to change about how you accessed the power.
-
I really don't hope its that easy; just use the power of the well and everything is back to normal. It seems like it would cheapen all the effort and sacrifice of the characters in previous books.
I will admit I kinda felt this way towards the end of book two, when all the koloss are attacking. So many characters died, Sazed did all his cool stuff with feruchemy fighting off the koloss, and all Vin had to do was use Duralumin and sooth them.
It would have greatly alleviated the problem if perhaps she had to use Kredik Shaw somehow to control the koloss; maybe the Well would have given her the power, or perhaps she would stand silhouted in the sun standing on top of one of the spikes, mistcloak blowing behind her as she concetrates, using the concentrated power of the spikes to compel the koloss....
you can see I've thought about this :P
-
The first big change could come in the form of stars being visible at night. What better way to let the skaa know they don't have to fear the night than to provide a light?
Hmm, this is very hard to swallow, let me chew on it....
there, ;D, the only they would be able to see the stars is if there wasn't any mist...i'm not sure how you expect that to happen during the duration of the book. However, if you mean at the very end, im sure the mist will be one of the few total changes--the rest i think will only just begin to change....
-
Very good discussion, everyone. Sorry I couldn't take part in it, but I've been terribly busy.
T-18 days, anybody?
-
That was actually a good theory, by the way. Too good for me to get involved in.
-
I really don't hope its that easy; just use the power of the well and everything is back to normal. It seems like it would cheapen all the effort and sacrifice of the characters in previous books.
I will admit I kinda felt this way towards the end of book two, when all the koloss are attacking. So many characters died, Sazed did all his cool stuff with feruchemy fighting off the koloss, and all Vin had to do was use Duralumin and sooth them.
It would have greatly alleviated the problem if perhaps she had to use Kredik Shaw somehow to control the koloss; maybe the Well would have given her the power, or perhaps she would stand silhouted in the sun standing on top of one of the spikes, mistcloak blowing behind her as she concetrates, using the concentrated power of the spikes to compel the koloss....
you can see I've thought about this :P
Sounds more like you've Dreamt about it. :P
-
I really don't hope its that easy; just use the power of the well and everything is back to normal. It seems like it would cheapen all the effort and sacrifice of the characters in previous books.
I really doubt it's going to be that easy. Afterall, Vin already used the WoA and from the sounds of it, it seems that it doesn't re-fill all too quickly. Besides, I am a big advocate that TLR did, at one point (or he always), have great intentions. He just took a wrong turn or two. I have a feeling TLR was essentially covering up a problem (Ruin) by doing something drastic (using the well to essentially screw the world). Vin and the gang are going to have to aim much further then TLR did.
That's just my opinion, though.
Very good discussion, everyone. Sorry I couldn't take part in it, but I've been terribly busy.
T-18 days, anybody?
I know this has been discussed in the HoA thread, but let's get something going here: Who do you think the Hero of Ages is?
The problem is that it's going to be very difficulty taking stabs at this one since all the things we know about the HoA could be tinkered with. Gotta love Ruin.
-
I really don't hope its that easy; just use the power of the well and everything is back to normal. It seems like it would cheapen all the effort and sacrifice of the characters in previous books.
I really doubt it's going to be that easy. Afterall, Vin already used the WoA and from the sounds of it, it seems that it doesn't re-fill all too quickly. Besides, I am a big advocate that TLR did, at one point (or he always), have great intentions. He just took a wrong turn or two. I have a feeling TLR was essentially covering up a problem (Ruin) by doing something drastic (using the well to essentially screw the world). Vin and the gang are going to have to aim much further then TLR did.
That's just my opinion, though.
Very good discussion, everyone. Sorry I couldn't take part in it, but I've been terribly busy.
T-18 days, anybody?
I know this has been discussed in the HoA thread, but let's get something going here: Who do you think the Hero of Ages is?
The problem is that it's going to be very difficulty taking stabs at this one since all the things we know about the HoA could be tinkered with. Gotta love Ruin.
This has been established. It's Chaos2651. :).
-
I really don't hope its that easy; just use the power of the well and everything is back to normal. It seems like it would cheapen all the effort and sacrifice of the characters in previous books.
I really doubt it's going to be that easy. Afterall, Vin already used the WoA and from the sounds of it, it seems that it doesn't re-fill all too quickly. Besides, I am a big advocate that TLR did, at one point (or he always), have great intentions. He just took a wrong turn or two. I have a feeling TLR was essentially covering up a problem (Ruin) by doing something drastic (using the well to essentially screw the world). Vin and the gang are going to have to aim much further then TLR did.
That's just my opinion, though.
Very good discussion, everyone. Sorry I couldn't take part in it, but I've been terribly busy.
T-18 days, anybody?
I know this has been discussed in the HoA thread, but let's get something going here: Who do you think the Hero of Ages is?
The problem is that it's going to be very difficulty taking stabs at this one since all the things we know about the HoA could be tinkered with. Gotta love Ruin.
This has been established. It's Chaos2651. :).
Oh yeah, that's right.
There is one thing I would like to say...I don't believe it's Vin. I believe she will be very central in fighting Ruin, but I'm not 100% convinced that she is actually the HoA.
-
I really don't hope its that easy; just use the power of the well and everything is back to normal. It seems like it would cheapen all the effort and sacrifice of the characters in previous books.
I really doubt it's going to be that easy. Afterall, Vin already used the WoA and from the sounds of it, it seems that it doesn't re-fill all too quickly. Besides, I am a big advocate that TLR did, at one point (or he always), have great intentions. He just took a wrong turn or two. I have a feeling TLR was essentially covering up a problem (Ruin) by doing something drastic (using the well to essentially screw the world). Vin and the gang are going to have to aim much further then TLR did.
That's just my opinion, though.
Very good discussion, everyone. Sorry I couldn't take part in it, but I've been terribly busy.
T-18 days, anybody?
I know this has been discussed in the HoA thread, but let's get something going here: Who do you think the Hero of Ages is?
The problem is that it's going to be very difficulty taking stabs at this one since all the things we know about the HoA could be tinkered with. Gotta love Ruin.
This has been established. It's Chaos2651. :).
Oh yeah, that's right.
There is one thing I would like to say...I don't believe it's Vin. I believe she will be very central in fighting Ruin, but I'm not 100% convinced that she is actually the HoA.
Here's a thought, since that HOA was supposedly intended to wield the power of the WOA, the idea of an HOA arising in the same sense can no longer be....
And since we know there still must be an HOA (as insinuated from the title of book three) we should ask ourselves HOW will the next HOA arise?
Hey, things are so broken up right now it could be that no single hero arises--Vin and Elend could team up and defeat the Ruin...
Everything is possible.
-
I really don't hope its that easy; just use the power of the well and everything is back to normal. It seems like it would cheapen all the effort and sacrifice of the characters in previous books.
I really doubt it's going to be that easy. Afterall, Vin already used the WoA and from the sounds of it, it seems that it doesn't re-fill all too quickly. Besides, I am a big advocate that TLR did, at one point (or he always), have great intentions. He just took a wrong turn or two. I have a feeling TLR was essentially covering up a problem (Ruin) by doing something drastic (using the well to essentially screw the world). Vin and the gang are going to have to aim much further then TLR did.
That's just my opinion, though.
Very good discussion, everyone. Sorry I couldn't take part in it, but I've been terribly busy.
T-18 days, anybody?
I know this has been discussed in the HoA thread, but let's get something going here: Who do you think the Hero of Ages is?
The problem is that it's going to be very difficulty taking stabs at this one since all the things we know about the HoA could be tinkered with. Gotta love Ruin.
This has been established. It's Chaos2651. :).
Oh yeah, that's right.
There is one thing I would like to say...I don't believe it's Vin. I believe she will be very central in fighting Ruin, but I'm not 100% convinced that she is actually the HoA.
Here's a thought, since that HOA was supposedly intended to wield the power of the WOA, the idea of an HOA arising in the same sense can no longer be....
And since we know there still must be an HOA (as insinuated from the title of book three) we should ask ourselves HOW will the next HOA arise?
Hey, things are so broken up right now it could be that no single hero arises--Vin and Elend could team up and defeat the Ruin...
Everything is possible.
Holy quotage Batman! There is a troublesome thing in the 'HoA' ascension through the WoA thing, though. What if Ruin had made that part up to release himself? Kwaan was pretty adamant about the fact that the Hero shouldn't give away the power (woops on Vin's part) but I think you're right elmandr, there must be something else.
Unless the HoA was TLR. That could be a possibility as well. The description of the book says that Elend and Vin go off looking for clues from TLR on how to defeat Ruin: (aha found it)
Emperor Elend Venture hopes to find clues left behind by the Lord Ruler that will allow him to save the world.
(as per Amazon, :P)
And I know there is more to TLR's last few lines. He was truly afraid of dieing but it seemed like he was concerned about more then his own life.
-
Well... obviously. He kept Ruin at bay, and so by killing him, Ruin began to exert its influence over the world.
EDIT: All right, T-17 days?
-
Too tired...
Brainstorm: Metal Lake
The metal lake gives some kind of power. Or it's where preservation is. Or it has the power to make a body for Ruin. It's where the mists come from.
Or it's just a really still lake with impurities that make it more reflective, giving it the appearance of metal, in which case what is important is what is near the lake.
-
I don't know, I was of the opinion that the metallic lake was the Well of Ascension.
-
I don't know, I was of the opinion that the metallic lake was the Well of Ascension.
I was going to post this same thing earlier, but I was afraid I was just going to be scoffed at. I stand behind you, Chaos!
I thought Rashek ended up leading Alendi away from it.
The lake that Fedik discovered is below us now—I can see it
from the ledge. It looks even more eerie from up here, with its
glassy—almost metallic—sheen. I almost wish I had let him take a
sample of its waters.
Perhaps his interest was what angered the mist creature that
follows us. Perhaps . . . that was why it decided to attack him,
stabbing him with its invisible knife.
Strangely, the attack comforted me. At least I know that since
another has seen it. That means I’m not mad.
(Ch 33, pg 547)
As you can see here, the mist spirit attacked at the 'lake,' just as it had attacked Elend right at the well. It could be coincidence.
*shrug* We'll find out in a little more then two weeks.
-
I am currently of the opinion that the metal lake is either a) an extension of the well of ascension, or b) a second well. But I definitely acknowledge other possibilities. It probably wouldn't even be too hard to get me to change my mind. This is just what I decided for the moment.
-
And I just lent WOA to a friend... Can't look it up now... Where was the lake located? Was it on that metal map, or just the circled city?
EDIT: Circled city theories, anyone?
-
And I just lent WOA to a friend... Can't look it up now... Where was the lake located? Was it on that metal map, or just the circled city?
EDIT: Circled city theories, anyone?
It was Satlin city, if my memory serves me correct. I highly doubt that there is just some simple collection of atium beads or stored food there, to be quite honest. There has to be something more. More steel plates perhaps with a shred of the truth?
-
Or possibly a handwritten account from Rashek telling about what happened after he took the power at the well...
-
Or possibly a handwritten account from Rashek telling about what happened after he took the power at the well...
...no comment.
EDIT: belay that. Why handwritten? surely it would be in steel...Alendi might not know of Ruin's powers but surely Rashek would.
-
Who says it's not possible to handwrite something in steel? That's a bad assumption on your part. In fact, I'd assume anything they did at this point in steel would be handwritten. Or at least hand-chiseled. Same difference.
-
I agree somewhat with those who consider the Well to be the Metal Lake. If not:
There's supposed to be two. Alendi/Rashek. Vin/Elend (though I suspect it was supposed to be Vin/Sazed). The "Hero" and the... well... opposite. One to take the power, one to suffer a massive wound so the person taking the power would use it rather than release it.
'Gods' on earth. Ruin/Preservation as embodied by those who take the power. "The Hero of Ages"? His initial title was 'the final hero'? What massive havoc that would cause. What epic 'end of the world' showdown between the two ultimates?
*shrug* So... again... someone did wrong. Last time Rashek killed his opposite and this time Vin let the power go.
-
I agree somewhat with those who consider the Well to be the Metal Lake. If not:
There's supposed to be two. Alendi/Rashek. Vin/Elend (though I suspect it was supposed to be Vin/Sazed). The "Hero" and the... well... opposite. One to take the power, one to suffer a massive wound so the person taking the power would use it rather than release it.
'Gods' on earth. Ruin/Preservation as embodied by those who take the power. "The Hero of Ages"? His initial title was 'the final hero'? What massive havoc that would cause. What epic 'end of the world' showdown between the two ultimates?
*shrug* So... again... someone did wrong. Last time Rashek killed his opposite and this time Vin let the power go.
Let's wait a thousand years for the well to refill to find out what happens in the next epic chapter!
I kid. ;)
That's an interesting theory on two heroes, Neina. Very interesting indeed. Again, there's also the question if either Alendi or Rashek were the real heroes, but they just failed.
-
I agree somewhat with those who consider the Well to be the Metal Lake. If not:
There's supposed to be two. Alendi/Rashek. Vin/Elend (though I suspect it was supposed to be Vin/Sazed). The "Hero" and the... well... opposite. One to take the power, one to suffer a massive wound so the person taking the power would use it rather than release it.
'Gods' on earth. Ruin/Preservation as embodied by those who take the power. "The Hero of Ages"? His initial title was 'the final hero'? What massive havoc that would cause. What epic 'end of the world' showdown between the two ultimates?
*shrug* So... again... someone did wrong. Last time Rashek killed his opposite and this time Vin let the power go.
Let's wait a thousand years for the well to refill to find out what happens in the next epic chapter!
I kid. ;)
That's an interesting theory on two heroes, Neina. Very interesting indeed. Again, there's also the question if either Alendi or Rashek were the real heroes, but they just failed.
i said this before, but i'll say it again.
I don't think that the HOA was ever meant to have the power. Actually, its a fact, since indeed the HOA didn't.
I think that the HOA is supposed to be endowed with the Mist Spirit.
-
I don't know... I think that the metal lake is referring to the Well of Ascension.
Okay, so... T-16 days. Go!
-
I don't know... I think that the metal lake is referring to the Well of Ascension.
Okay, so... T-16 days. Go!
Let's ride the new chapter: In what ways do you think Hemalurgy is fused with Alomancy?
-
I don't know... I think that the metal lake is referring to the Well of Ascension.
Okay, so... T-16 days. Go!
Let's ride the new chapter: In what ways do you think Hemalurgy is fused with Alomancy?
Well there is a relationship--the mist--in that Allomancy attracts it where hemulurgy repels it.
So they could be opposites of each other--or something along those lines.
-
After reading chapter 3 I am now pretty convinced that Hemalurgy allows the transfer of abilities from one person to another through a blood sacrifice. I also believe that Hemalurgy can enhance existing abilities, although I am not sure if it is required to sacrifice someone with that same ability, or if anyone can be used. I need the MB2 Ars Arcanum now. We need to look at the relationships between the Allomantic and Feruchemical abilities each metal has. There may be trade-offs in some areas and doubled abilities in others.
-
Hmmm...
I do not know what to do with Hemalurgy any more. I never really liked the power-stealing theory much, but...
Obviously, Inquisitors do not eat the 15th metal to grant Allomancy. If they did, their Allomancy would be much stronger, as Elend's is. That would mean that the Hemalurgical process would then have to grant Allomancy. I guess that's how it would need to be.
Pewter's Feruchemical power, by the way, is physical speed, so it could definitely be Feruchemy.
-
I haven't a clue on hemalurgy and its abilities. I mean the speed was "non-allomantic" as Vin said so then what was it? Was it increased strength from Feruchemy and burned Pewter at the same time? I'm lost. It was almost as if it was different all together. Idk. I will be of no help in this discussion.
-
Remember how in Sazed's fight vs. Marsh he used Feruchemy to move incredibly fast? same thing. We have no idea what hemalurgy does so without further info we have little basis to believe the Inquisitor used hemalurgy.
-
I haven't a clue on hemalurgy and its abilities. I mean the speed was "non-allomantic" as Vin said so then what was it? Was it increased strength from Feruchemy and burned Pewter at the same time? I'm lost. It was almost as if it was different all together. Idk. I will be of no help in this discussion.
I feel just as lost--me and Chaos2561 talked a little about this via messenger and we have concluded that Vin is a hemulurgist as well as an Allomancer--for an explanation look into the Hemalurgy thread.
She can do things that other Allomancers can do because of the fact.
So hemalurgy must infact increase the ability of the body in the same through the pierced metals--question is though, how?
Allomancers swallow and then burn the metal, feruchemists store their OWN energy within the metals.
One uses energy that the metal already has, the other filling the energy into the metal first.
So i would guess that in hemalurgy--since the spikes never burn away like in allomancy--that the spikes also draw on energy, but since inquistors are never weak--as far as we know--the energy must not be there own.
Thus i think that the spikes suck energy from an outside, consist energy.
The mist.
It is all in the theory of the conservation of matter.
Allomancy takes the metals that have already NATURALLY taken those energies and burned them back into the atmosphere--thus the mist is attracted to it.
the spikes suck the energy and provide--first life to the should be dead inquistor--and strength.
and since they have an unlimited supply, they can flare it. Its not like they will be exhausted after the fact...
but thats just my theory.
-
Inquisitors do get weak. They need a lot of rest to make up for the power they wield. They may be exceptionally strong, but I bet the tank will empty eventually, and if that happens they probably just fall asleep wherever they are.
-
Inquisitors do get weak. They need a lot of rest to make up for the power they wield. They may be exceptionally strong, but I bet the tank will empty eventually, and if that happens they probably just fall asleep wherever they are.
Thats true, but it doesn't have to disprove his theory. The need to rest could be easily explained by the fact that they are channeling immense power through 11 spikes in their body. That doesn't mean they are running out of power when they need to rest.
-
But if they take the energy from the enviroment, then theoretically, they should constantly be getting more energy, and wouldn't need to rest. I think it is more likely that hemalurgy is (I really hate to say this) some sort of super-enhancer for abilities you already possess. That's why their allomancy is stronger, that's why they are able to constantly maintain enough health that they don't die from the spikes.
Also, for theory purposes, the Ars Arcanum from MB2
Iron - Pulls on nearby sources of metal - Stores Weight
Steel - Pushes on nearby sources of metal - stores speed
Tin - Increases Senses - Stores Senses
Pewter - Increase Physical Abilities - Stores physical strength
Brass - Soothes Emotions - Stores Warmth
Zinc - Riots Emotions - Stores Mental Speed
Copper - Hides allomancy - Stores Memories
Bronze - Detects Allomancy - Stores Wakefulness
Atium - See other people's future - Stores Age
Malatium - See other's pasts - Unknown
Gold - See your own past - Stores health
Electrum - See your own future - Unknown
So it's steel, Chaos, not pewter.
-
But if they take the energy from the enviroment, then theoretically, they should constantly be getting more energy, and wouldn't need to rest. I think it is more likely that hemalurgy is (I really hate to say this) some sort of super-enhancer for abilities you already possess. That's why their allomancy is stronger, that's why they are able to constantly maintain enough health that they don't die from the spikes.
Also, for theory purposes, the Ars Arcanum from MB2
Iron - Pulls on nearby sources of metal - Stores Weight
Steel - Pushes on nearby sources of metal - stores speed
Tin - Increases Senses - Stores Senses
Pewter - Increase Physical Abilities - Stores physical strength
Brass - Soothes Emotions - Stores Warmth
Zinc - Riots Emotions - Stores Mental Speed
Copper - Hides allomancy - Stores Memories
Bronze - Detects Allomancy - Stores Wakefulness
Atium - See other people's future - Stores Age
Malatium - See other's pasts - Unknown
Gold - See your own past - Stores health
Electrum - See your own future - Unknown
So it's steel, darx, not pewter.
The theory is really rough--feel free to tweak it--or even change chunks of it--i want to see how close we can get to figuring this out before the 14th.
I would like to announce something.
If Vin Doesn't unite with the mist spirit, i will eat my hat. Yes, i did say "eat my hat."
and i mean it, if it so happens that she doesn't, i will post a picture of me eating a ketchup covered cap...
But if it does happen--i am to be addressed--by all who post the word "aye" (indicating their challenge)--as Sir Elmandr1.
So, who's up for it?
-
I'm game.
-
Well if hemalurgy is a super enhancer for powers that you already obtain then why is Elends steel push stronger than Vins? I mean i get the fact that he is probably a true pure mistborn and she is genetically diluted and far from the source but, if the bead made Elend more powerful than a normal allomancer then wouldnt hemalurgy do the same for Vin? Now I am also aware that Vin is strong in her allomancy, even Kell said that but apparently not as strong as Elend. So What purpose does the hamalurgy serve if the differnce it makes can be made up by normal performace level?
Oh and elmandr1 count me in. The only stipulation I require is that the hat you eat be made of fabric. Like a real hat. I dont want any of this edible clothing crap I want you eating a real hat that you could conceivably wear. If she merges with the spirit I have no problem calling you "Sir" but if not I want some convincing photos or a video proving your half of the bargain.
-
Well if hemalurgy is a super enhancer for powers that you already obtain then why is Elends steel push stronger than Vins? I mean i get the fact that he is probably a true pure mistborn and she is genetically diluted and far from the source but, if the bead made Elend more powerful than a normal allomancer then wouldnt hemalurgy do the same for Vin? Now I am also aware that Vin is strong in her allomancy, even Kell said that but apparently not as strong as Elend. So What purpose does the hamalurgy serve if the differnce it makes can be made up by normal performace level?
Oh and elmandr1 count me in. The only stipulation I require is that the hat you eat be made of fabric. Like a real hat. I dont want any of this edible clothing crap I want you eating a real hat that you could conceivably wear. If she merges with the spirit I have no problem calling you "Sir" but if not I want some convincing photos or a video proving your half of the bargain.
Well, to answer your question, she only has a tiny, nearly negligible piece of metal piercing her skin--And i also think that the number of spikes is proportional to the boost amount.
-
Ok so you would say that if Vin had ten pounds of metal stuck in her somehow and was still able to move around that she would be immensely powerful? I mean I could see the configuration of the spikes and the number of them in the inquisitors having something to do with the ritual of becoming and inq but I dont know if the amount of metal has an effect. I mean if thats true and Vin does indeed have hemalurgy then if it is going to have a considerable effect then sometime in this third book shes going to have to get a crap load of piercings right? I mean that tiny piece of metal may have had something to do with her ability to pull the bracers off TRL arms in MB1. Something an allomancer isnt supposed to be able to do. So if a little amount could do that then why dont the inqs just go around pulling and pushing on the metal in your blood. I mean they would be that much more powerful than Vin with her tiny piercing. Just some food for thought.
Oh and you didn't respond to Chaos and myself agreeing to your proposal.
-
Ok so you would say that if Vin had ten pounds of metal stuck in her somehow and was still able to move around that she would be immensely powerful? I mean I could see the configuration of the spikes and the number of them in the inquisitors having something to do with the ritual of becoming and inq but I dont know if the amount of metal has an effect. I mean if thats true and Vin does indeed have hemalurgy then if it is going to have a considerable effect then sometime in this third book shes going to have to get a crap load of piercings right? I mean that tiny piece of metal may have had something to do with her ability to pull the bracers off TRL arms in MB1. Something an allomancer isnt supposed to be able to do. So if a little amount could do that then why dont the inqs just go around pulling and pushing on the metal in your blood. I mean they would be that much more powerful than Vin with her tiny piercing. Just some food for thought.
Oh and you didn't respond to Chaos and myself agreeing to your proposal.
Actually, she couldn't pull the bracer's until it ripped off.
The mist was retreating from her, like it did when the Inquisitor was holding her still earlier in that scene. The Mist repels from inquistors but is attracted to Allomancers--that is indicated in the duration of both books.
It was only when TLR ripped the earing off that she could wield the mist...
go back and reread, its true.
-
What if someone else unites with the Mist Spirit?
-
What if someone else unites with the Mist Spirit?
Then i persume we will subconciously eat hats--and not just one--dozens of them!
-
Ha! I don't own any hats. Although I guess I'd have to go buy one just to fit in. But I'm smearing mine in BBQ sauce. ;D
-
Okay, you guys know the drill... T-15 days?
-
I think what we talked about yesterday deserves another day.
Thanks for posting the Ars Arcanum, Andrew. It actually helped me notice something. Inq's would have little or no real reason to have a gold, malatium, aluminum, or electrum spike (assuming they have an atium spike at least). Yet they have 11 spikes in their bodies. The base 8 with atium and duralumin would leave room for 1 additional metal. If one Keeper was needed for each Inq, then a gold spike would be the 11th, storing health. Now for a really out there theory. What if TLR was so strong he was able to imbue metals Hemallurgically using his own body and survive the process? They wouldn't need Keepers to give the health restore that way. Like I said, waaaayyy out there. The new issue with the Speedy Inq would be whether or not a 12th spike was added, or they are making specialists who replaced a former ability with speed. Seeing as the atium stash is either missing or there is no atium left, we can guess that the atium spike has been replaced with a second steel spike, this one Feruchemically imbued with the ability to store speed. My only evidence to this is the speed Inq didn't turn on his Atium despite fighting two allomancers. This could also be because he was overconfident, but it does leave the possibility open.
-
Well what about the gold? I mean even if he turned on his atium it would have served no purpose seeing how Vin was burning gold and she said that made her imune to atium burners.
-
Well, it was electrum not gold that Vin was burning. And that brings up another question I have - if electrum allows you to see your own future, how does that work as a poor man's atium? Vin seeing her own future would not change anything in the way the Inquisitor sees her, would it? So it wouldn't mess up her atium shadows, if he was burning atium. The only thing it would do is allow her to see what she was about to do or be, which might help her avoid a fatal attack, but I can't imagine it actually combatting atium.
-
I could see it more as she would be seeing something similar to what the inq was seeing. She would see what she was going to do and so would he. That would give the user the ability to choose between a set number of outcomes and both the inq and the user would be on even ground. They would both see the same thing she just wouldn't be able to see what he was going to do and yes that puts her at a disadvantage but if she acts according to how she thinks he is going to react then she doesn't need to see what hes going to do.
-
Well, it was electrum not gold that Vin was burning. And that brings up another question I have - if electrum allows you to see your own future, how does that work as a poor man's atium? Vin seeing her own future would not change anything in the way the Inquisitor sees her, would it? So it wouldn't mess up her atium shadows, if he was burning atium. The only thing it would do is allow her to see what she was about to do or be, which might help her avoid a fatal attack, but I can't imagine it actually combatting atium.
The trickiness with Atium is that if you can see what someone else is going to do, you change what you are going to do. With just one person burning Atium, that one person is at a huge advantage; they can survive just about any one-on-one confrontation. With two though, there is a feedback effect; when you see someone what someone else is going to do, that changes what you will do, which changes what they will do, etc. Thus there is a mess of shadows showing all the possibilities. The one that really happens is thus essentially just cleverness and free will then.
With Electrum, you get the same feedback effect. You see what you are going to do, which in turn changes what you decide to actually do. If you see yourself dieing, you dodge the blow, which means you move differently, which means the Atium burner sees two different shadows, which changes how he decides to attack, which changes what you see happening to yourself, which means you do something different, which creates more shadows which...
And so on. It isn't nearly as useful as being able to see what your opponent is going to do, but it does mean he doesn't know what you are going to do either. In Vin's case, it was a sensible precaution.
-
Also remember that Atium allows you to better process the information and respond. It gives you Spidey-reflexes, for lack of a better analogy. In this way, the Atium burner will still have an advantage, it just won't be as significant.
-
With Electrum, you get the same feedback effect. You see what you are going to do, which in turn changes what you decide to actually do. If you see yourself dieing, you dodge the blow, which means you move differently, which means the Atium burner sees two different shadows, which changes how he decides to attack, which changes what you see happening to yourself, which means you do something different, which creates more shadows which...
If I'm not mistaken this happens with atium anyway? At any moment there are a set number of things anyone can do, this is what a person without atium would know. Burning atium just gives a "most probable future", right? In the second book that's how Vin beat Zane. She mentally prepared a future then changed it at the last moment giving Zane two atium shadows. I need to go back and read the initial introduction of atium to Vin...
Logically, If someone has no solid future event then it's much more difficult for a solid atium read.
-
I was confused by the electrum-atium thing at first, but then I thought about it and came up with pretty much the same thing that happyman said.
Elmandr1, I'll take you up on that. I'll even agree to call you "Your Holiness" or some other such title if you'll agree to post a video somewhere and post the link here.
-
Here Here!! Your Holiness, Master, Sir, Ma'am, Madam, whatever you want im in as well.
And yes I also agree with happyman
-
I was confused by the electrum-atium thing at first, but then I thought about it and came up with pretty much the same thing that happyman said.
Elmandr1, I'll take you up on that. I'll even agree to call you "Your Holiness" or some other such title if you'll agree to post a video somewhere and post the link here.
Video?
...
Okay--but don't expect me to be naked!
-
Yeah, what Happyman said.
-
It's October, ladies and gentlemen.
:D
Next theory?
:D :D It's October :D
-
It's October, ladies and gentlemen.
:D
Next theory?
:D :D It's October :D
Since i have placed a rather risky bet on this.
In general. What do you guys think of idea of the HOA and the Mist spirit uniting.
Let me elaborate before you answer...
to me, or i believe, that the mist spirit is the collective souls of the HOA's of the past.
And that the HOA of today must unite with the mist spirit to destroy Ruin...That would explain why Ruin would want the world to think it evil--and that why i think it changed that part of the prophecy as well.
I don't think that deepness is the correct word.
Ruin altered it--i don't know what the word actually is but thats no it.
Vin wields the mists once...it essentially gives her powers that no other HOA can have...
Mist spirit has control over mist...
mist is formless mass of infinite energy...
so, what do ya'll think?
-
I don't have an answer to that. It's possible, but there is insufficient data... I think it's an idea that the Deepness isn't bad, but Ruin painted it the bad guy... I don't know.
-
First of all if the mist spirit is the collective souls of the past HoAs then is Alendi's soul in there or TLR's?
Second I dont know if there ever were any HoAs before TLR's time. I mean was there ever any reason to think there was? I know the well existed but that doesnt mean it was used. The well could have been there waiting for the time it was needed. Also before TLR and the Deepness the world was green and healthy, and there was a considerable population. Why would they need an HoA. There was no Deepness killing the earth and no Ashmount clogging the air. I mean is there some sort of cataclysmic event that takes place every 1000 years that would require a HoA to rise against it? Idk there just isnt enough either way to make a firm decision.
Im not trying to disprove your idea im just posting the reasons why I dont feel its correct.
Also havnt we talked about this a couple of times before? Idk maybe we havnt. I was wondering if I bought you a hat and sent it to you would you eat that one. I mean I saw this great 10 gallon leather hat in the store the other day and it made me think of you and how much I would enjoy watching you eat it. ;D
-
I have seen this idea before, but haven't commented on it. This is because it is so far beyond what we know there is no way to make any argument for or against it.
So---I've got nothing. We don't even know if people have souls in Mistborn, or if they can be combined, or if the mist spirit has a soul. Just---nothing to go on. There is no known evidence for an afterlife (in the Mistborn world), and the various religions cannot be trusted (not malicious, just true). They had lots of gods, most of which probably didn't exist. I'm blank here. No meat, no handle to grip it with---nothing.
-
The only thing I think we can say with certainty (I think) is that the prophecies came from somewhere in the first place; Ruin changed them, but I very much doubt he created them. So even though we can't trust anything not written in steel because of Ruin's influence, we do know there was an original that was tampered with.
-
Im not trying to disprove your idea im just posting the reasons why I dont feel its correct.
Well thanks for clearing up your intentions there Green ??? ??? ??? Glenn Ordway would be proud.
-
My copy doesn't come until the 17-21, UGH AMAZON! Why oh why????
Thus many of you will probably be done by the time I get my copy (boo).
Does any one know a faster way to get books (in canada), just for future reference.
-
Drive over the border and pick one up. :P
-
I can hook up a webcam for you while I read the book. Might be a little awkward for both of us though: me because I would feel like someone was standing over my shoulder the whole time, you because I read in my birthday suit while also eating jell-o.
*Edited to correct the awkward spelling.
-
^^LOL, Don't assume anything, Vegas. He may read the same way.
-
Vegas, I think Miyabi wants access to that webcam footage.
-
Well, I am only able to host 8 people so some might just have to wait for the archives. Click here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yu_moia-oVI) for the schoolgirl outfit reading of 'The Eye of the World'.
Miyabi, you've just been Rick Rolled circa 2007.
-
My copy doesn't come until the 17-21, UGH AMAZON! Why oh why????
Thus many of you will probably be done by the time I get my copy (boo).
Does any one know a faster way to get books (in canada), just for future reference.
One day shipping?
I was confused by the electrum-atium thing at first, but then I thought about it and came up with pretty much the same thing that happyman said.
Elmandr1, I'll take you up on that. I'll even agree to call you "Your Holiness" or some other such title if you'll agree to post a video somewhere and post the link here.
Video?
...
Okay--but don't expect me to be naked!
*Shudders*
Please no.
And Vegas, I was thinking more along the lines of this. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eX_rNEPIgc8)
-
First of all if the mist spirit is the collective souls of the past HoAs then is Alendi's soul in there or TLR's?
Second I dont know if there ever were any HoAs before TLR's time. I mean was there ever any reason to think there was? I know the well existed but that doesnt mean it was used. The well could have been there waiting for the time it was needed. Also before TLR and the Deepness the world was green and healthy, and there was a considerable population. Why would they need an HoA. There was no Deepness killing the earth and no Ashmount clogging the air. I mean is there some sort of cataclysmic event that takes place every 1000 years that would require a HoA to rise against it? Idk there just isnt enough either way to make a firm decision.
Im not trying to disprove your idea im just posting the reasons why I dont feel its correct.
Also havnt we talked about this a couple of times before? Idk maybe we havnt. I was wondering if I bought you a hat and sent it to you would you eat that one. I mean I saw this great 10 gallon leather hat in the store the other day and it made me think of you and how much I would enjoy watching you eat it. ;D
The thing you need to realize is that prophecies aren't just born. Legends of someone like an HOA don't show up suddenly--they are timeless, tales passed down orally to the beginning of man. You need to realize this.
Another, are you to tell me that before any of this happened, two thousand years before to the day the Terris came to be, that the world was in complete bliss?
What harder to believe, that there are more then one HOA since the beginning of time or that before the Terris there was never, ever anything wrong with the world; no hate, no suffering, no evil.
Another, Where do you suppose the Ruin came from, if it wasn't around before the terris? Did it just come to be as well?
no, im sorry, i find it easier to believe that the legend of the HOA has been around since the civilization was in a cradle--and before...before men could even speak in languages.
-
Elmandr1, I'm going to be as nice as possible. Your first statement regarding prophecies is inaccurate at best. The rest of your post reads much the same as some of your previous posts; throw something out there that has little to no ground to stand on based upon what we have read thusfar and then deny any credible evidence that others point out that may poke holes in your theory. No one is saying your theory is wrong, just that there is little to no evidence that proves it is right. There is a difference and 'You need to realize this.'
If you want to convice people of your theory, provide evidence that there was a HoA prior to TLR. Provide evidence that the world was not healthy and green, but instead has been besieged by Ruin from the beginning of time.
-
Actually, I believe he is saying that the world and the forces within it (Ruin and Preservation), have been around for a lot longer than a thousand years. It is possible that a Hero of Ages type person existed 1,000's of years ago. After all, who imprisoned Ruin in the first place? I suppose it could have been the creator. But the Terris were aware of the power becoming available every thousand years, so there has to be some greater history. The Deepnes may have been a new thing, or the past "Hero" may have known how to stop it.
All that being said, I agree that Elmand shouldn't be so sure of himself. The only person who knows for sure is EUOL. It would be another nice twist against normal fantasy to have the world only be 2000 years old.
-
Ok, so I agree that Ruin and Preservation and the WoA could all have existed from the beginning of time. Sure why not. Do you think that maybe Ruin and was always imprisoned? Maybe the well was built as a prison from the beginning. Maybe when Preservation was created Ruin was a side effect that has been imprisoned since the beginning. Thus the Well has always been there.
Thats just a random possability and not what I think but it could be possable.
Ok I get it the world may not have been a perfect place before Alendi and TLR. Agreed but was it bad enough to warrant a HoA? Was it bad enough to usher the end of the world? I doubt it. I mean look at our world, have we ever needed powers to save us? Honestly I look at pre-TLR time much as our world was 1000 years ago. Yeah there was war but there wasnt world ending problems. I would need something to make me think that the mistborn world has been going through catastrophic events since the beginning of time.
Prophecies often have only one use. They often only include one point in time and they may have existed a thousand years or more before they come to pass. So the idea that there hasnt been a true HoA before isnt too far fetched.
-
It just occurred to me; what if the world should have ended thousands of years ago, and (like in Alcatraz) has been arriving late to it's own death through the Heroes of Ages?
-
elmandr1,
I think what you need to realize is that while what you are suggesting is possible, many of us have a hard time accepting that it's the only possible outcome. You keep saying "But it's possible" as though that somehow made it true.
There is a world of difference between what is possible and what is true. It is almost impossible to prove something false unless evidence is given against which it can be compared. Thus theories which have so many unknowns, like yours, are frankly quite boring. We need them from time to time in order to test the limits of our own knowledge, but once we've actually hit those limits, we need to back down and not be partisan about them being true. We just don't know.
Enough on that.
Anyway, I also wanted to add that I am also looking forward to finding out more about how the world ended up like it did. It seems quite likely that the world was a beautiful place, much like our real world, before TLR's ascension. Otherwise what is all the talk about flowers and green plants about? Clearly something odd has happened, and while a WoT scenario is possible I would hardly consider it the only or even the most likely possibility. The prophecies certainly did come from somewhere, and they were corrupted only very late, so something odd is going on.
I look forward with anticipation. There's always another secret.
-
[rantage]
[annoyance]
I've restrained myself to this point, but I honestly can't stand it any more.
Prophecies do NOT have to be thousands of years old. They don't even have to be one year old. All prophecies are born somewhere, so Elmandr1, your statement is, as Vegas put it, incorrect at best. Even if they come from some sort of God, or some cool person who for one reason or another has the ability to prophesy, they are born at some point. There is no reason they couldn't have been created recently.
Now, when a prophecy is kind of a legend, it tends to mean that it is older. That doesn't mean that it's been around since the beginning of time. In fact, in a society where history isn't always recorded and distribution of such things is nearly non-existent due to lack of printing, I can see a prophecy becoming legend in as short a time frame as 100 years. Granted, I think they are older.
Third, while it may be most likely that the prophecies really are prophecies from a credible source, this isn't always the case. One of the best books I ever read wasthis way. The main characters spent the whole series fulfilling a set of prophecies, then found out that another character had made them up about a hundred years previously. It was pretty nifty, the way it all worked out in the end.
So, long story short, we really can't make statements like, "the prophecies have been around since the beginning of time," because we don't really know anything about the prophecies.
[/annoyance][/rantage]
And now happyman went and posted while I was typing, rendering about half of this post useless. Oh well.
Elmandr1, please don't take offense at all of us being somewhat annoyed. We don't think that your theories are wrong. We just don't know enough to prove or disprove them. We do appreciate that you add to the discussion. We just ask that you don't act like your theories are the only possible course because their possible.
That said, please do continue posting, You seem to be an intelligent person, which I appreciate greatly. Their in short supply, these days. Just please don't be so defensive of your theories when we say that we think it's possible but we don't really believe them.
-
[rantage]
[annoyance]
I've restrained myself to this point, but I honestly can't stand it any more.
Prophecies do NOT have to be thousands of years old. They don't even have to be one year old. All prophecies are born somewhere, so Elmandr1, your statement is, as Vegas put it, incorrect at best. Even if they come from some sort of God, or some cool person who for one reason or another has the ability to prophesy, they are born at some point. There is no reason they couldn't have been created recently.
Now, when a prophecy is kind of a legend, it tends to mean that it is older. That doesn't mean that it's been around since the beginning of time. In fact, in a society where history isn't always recorded and distribution of such things is nearly non-existent due to lack of printing, I can see a prophecy becoming legend in as short a time frame as 100 years. Granted, I think they are older.
Third, while it may be most likely that the prophecies really are prophecies from a credible source, this isn't always the case. One of the best books I ever read wasthis way. The main characters spent the whole series fulfilling a set of prophecies, then found out that another character had made them up about a hundred years previously. It was pretty nifty, the way it all worked out in the end.
So, long story short, we really can't make statements like, "the prophecies have been around since the beginning of time," because we don't really know anything about the prophecies.
[/annoyance][/rantage]
And now happyman went and posted while I was typing, rendering about half of this post useless. Oh well.
Elmandr1, please don't take offense at all of us being somewhat annoyed. We don't think that your theories are wrong. We just don't know enough to prove or disprove them. We do appreciate that you add to the discussion. We just ask that you don't act like your theories are the only possible course because their possible.
That said, please do continue posting, You seem to be an intelligent person, which I appreciate greatly. Their in short supply, these days. Just please don't be so defensive of your theories when we say that we think it's possible but we don't really believe them.
;D
The Thread was becoming a little wan...decided i'd start stabbing at you guys--provoke some intice and worthwhile debates...
No, my thoeries are just that--theories.
I have very little proof, and (since i have reread the books over three times now) the only other evidence i will have will come on the 14th. And by then, it won't matter what i think--except to all you guys who will start to call me "Sir" ::).
Its Just a gut feeling. I know happy man, i shouldn't be so defensive, and talk so surely about something based on weak evidence...but somebody has to do it.
In reply to the prophecy statements you guys have made. Andrew, i don't think that prophecies actually ever came to be on there own...
I study mythology and the two most significant catalysts for a prophecy or myth are a:) and wide ranging, historical event (whether it be a plague, war, oppression, etc...) or b:) the myths and prophecies of another race go through what is essentially known as "the melting pot." This meaning that the prophecies as they are being accepted and taken into another life style of another culture/race go through a change....and thus becomes an independent prophecy or myth.
Other than that i can't recall a myth or prophecy that was born on its own entirely...thats all im saying.
Another thing, I agree that a prophecy or myth can develop within a hundred years (heck, a man's life can become a legend before he dies--ask Kvouthe (Main character in The Name of the Wind.)) However something needs to trigger that development...
but when people say that the world was in complete bliss--why then would a prophecy be needed? The Terris they had already had these religions for years before TLR was born...
This is just me seeing the inconsistencies when looking at what we know with a LOGICAL perspectives (this really is all the evidence i have--this is essentially where my theories are derived to answer your question happyman.)
Andrew, I'd like your opinion, based on what you know and what is insinuated through out the story, for how long before TLR do you predict the prophecies were apart of the Terris culture?
I ask this because, if you say a year or if you say a million (it doesn't matter), don't you think that atleast one or two people might have claimed that the were Messia--oop--i mean HOA before Alendi came??
And since TLR (supposedly) wasn't the HOA, couldn't there have been other wrong holders of the power??
It just makes sense if you think about the sociological patterns in humans, and the recurrent events in religious history...
But i could be wrong, thats for sure, i could definitely be wrong.
-
I personally give the prophecies about 500 years. But the doesn't really matter.
And I also suppose it's entirely possible that there are previous heroes of ages. I just think that it is likely that some sort of legend of them would have been passed on to today. But again, it is possible.
And I'm not sure about whether the power at the well is the deciding factor in what makes a Hero of Ages.
-
I personally give the prophecies about 500 years. But the doesn't really matter.
And I also suppose it's entirely possible that there are previous heroes of ages. I just think that it is likely that some sort of legend of them would have been passed on to today. But again, it is possible.
And I'm not sure about whether the power at the well is the deciding factor in what makes a Hero of Ages.
Me neither--October 14th needs to hurry up and get here.
-
Ok then does any one have anything on deck for tomorrow?
-
I personally give the prophecies about 500 years. But the doesn't really matter.
And I also suppose it's entirely possible that there are previous heroes of ages. I just think that it is likely that some sort of legend of them would have been passed on to today. But again, it is possible.
And I'm not sure about whether the power at the well is the deciding factor in what makes a Hero of Ages.
I highly doubt the Terris prophecies are only 500 years old for a single reason: it would throw every single thing Kwaan has written on metal off. It had been a thousand years since the time of Alendi and I was under the impression that the prophecies are what first led Kwaan to assume he was the HoA.
Maybe it's just me.It just occurred to me; what if the world should have ended thousands of years ago, and (like in Alcatraz) has been arriving late to it's own death through the Heroes of Ages?
I really like this idea. Def. a possibility.
-
I personally give the prophecies about 500 years. But the doesn't really matter.
And I also suppose it's entirely possible that there are previous heroes of ages. I just think that it is likely that some sort of legend of them would have been passed on to today. But again, it is possible.
And I'm not sure about whether the power at the well is the deciding factor in what makes a Hero of Ages.
I highly doubt the Terris prophecies are only 500 years old for a single reason: it would throw every single thing Kwaan has written on metal off. It had been a thousand years since the time of Alendi and I was under the impression that the prophecies are what first led Kwaan to assume he was the HoA.
I read the statements as: 500 years old when Kwaan and Alendi lived.
Andrew, i don't think that prophecies actually ever came to be on there own...
I study mythology and the two most significant catalysts for a prophecy or myth are a:) and wide ranging, historical event (whether it be a plague, war, oppression, etc...) or b:) the myths and prophecies of another race go through what is essentially known as "the melting pot." This meaning that the prophecies as they are being accepted and taken into another life style of another culture/race go through a change....and thus becomes an independent prophecy or myth.
Other than that i can't recall a myth or prophecy that was born on its own entirely...thats all im saying.
In a fantasy world, it would be a very bad idea to outlaw c:) a legitimate power (human, god, whatever) was able to see the need in the future and created the prophecies to help people deal with it.
Of course, Brandon may not go with this. He's already played fast and loose with the "perfect prophecy" trope by having Ruin mess with them.
but when people say that the world was in complete bliss--why then would a prophecy be needed? The Terris they had already had these religions for years before TLR was born...
One possible answer is right there in your own statement of where myths might come from (barring being real). If the deepness (or Ruin) was really a threat at some point in the past, but one that had been successfully overcome without leaving the world a shell of itselfmaybe by using the power at the well in the past, then a world which is "normal," (wars and some destruction, yes, but also flowers and green plants and a yellow sun) would be a perfectly normal result. People would remember the danger (distantly) and the enormous source of power required to fix it, but for the most part life would be as healthy as it normally can be. Hence the religion exists naturally, and there is not contradiction with what is known from the books.
This is only one possible answer. There are others, including the notion that the world really is only 2000 years old and the power has only shown up twice! The prophecies would presumably then come from what people learned right after the creation---however that happened. Again, this is purely speculation.
-
One possible answer is right there in your own statement of where myths might come from (barring being real). If the deepness (or Ruin) was really a threat at some point in the past, but one that had been successfully overcome without leaving the world a shell of itselfmaybe by using the power at the well in the past, then a world which is "normal," (wars and some destruction, yes, but also flowers and green plants and a yellow sun) would be a perfectly normal result. People would remember the danger (distantly) and the enormous source of power required to fix it, but for the most part life would be as healthy as it normally can be. Hence the religion exists naturally, and there is not contradiction with what is known from the books.
Okay, lets say they (Terris of the past) successfully sealed away Ruin...that doesn't mean the prophecy was thrown out...it is a sacred writing--the logically thing and probably the most human would be to try and preserve the scriptures....don't you agree?
Two thousand years? Im not sure, Brandon seems like he can see farther into the world than that...but then again, i could be wrong, i could definitely be wrong.
1,000 years= the refilling of the well, and, consequently the HOA.
so, whenever the earliest forms of the prophecies began, count each thousand years as one hoa, and thats how many Past HOA you have within the mist spirit... ;D
i say atleast ten. Including Rashek. :o, yes, although he wasn't really appreciated i think he played a significant role in the prophecy--he stalled the destruction of the world long enough for Vin to come along and save it. So he has his place.
Two biggest clues in the book that may prove the Mist Spirit=past HOA are:
1.) When Vin uses the mist to destroy TLR.
2.) the mist spirit only appearing post TLR and when the world was...HOA--less, if you will.
-
What I'm really interested in is what the prophecy ACTUALLY says, without all its Ruin-"enhanced" upgrades. ;D
-
New Subject!
Why does the mist kill some people, shake and make others sick, and leave some completely alone?
...the mists, which could be Preservation, depending on the kind of people the mists killed. Brandon does say in his annotations (Chapter 15)
Mostly, I'm showing the real danger of the mists--that there IS indeed a reason to fear them. Either way, remember one thing from this chapter. Some people were killed (and there's a connection between the two people you've heard described specifically as dying from the mists) some people got away, and some people had seizures, but then were all right later.
Which two people were "Old Jed," described as being a "hard worker" (pg 42). The other was "Old Jell" who was "Bullheaded" (pg 141). More thoughts on that?
-
I think I'll take this straight from the source.
This title was fairly easy to choose. Actually, the titles of all three books were easy to choose. I originally toyed with calling the Hero of Ages the Final Hero. So, because of that, I was tempted to come up with a "final" title to use for book two.
However, I quickly decided that I liked Hero of Ages instead of Final Hero (you'll see why in Book Three.) So, way back as far as the first chapters of book one, I was planning book two to be named the Well of Ascension.
Not "Final Hero", "Hero of Ages". I cannot help but think that there must be more than one Age for that term to apply. We know two of them for certain: Alendi/Rashek/Kwaan's age with Rashek's Ascension, along with the age of the Final Empire with Vin's Ascension. Oh, I guess if we measure "ages" as points where people have gone to the Well of Ascension to use its power (it fills up every thousand years, and I would assume the only way to remove whatever it is "filled" with is for someone to use it) then MB3 actually would begin the third age we explicitly know about, since the Well's power was utilized.
There could be more ages than that. Or, conversely, maybe the original prophecies were referring to the fact that it took two (or three) ages for the prophecies to be fulfilled. We don't know.
There could be more ages, that's all. Somehow, I believe it's all tied to the Well itself. Where did it come from? Why does it fill up every thousand years? Does it really fill up every thousand years, or is that just a myth that Ruin manipulated? What is the Well filled with, and where does the Power come from? How does it get filled by "well-liquid", is it just spontaneous? Those are all very key questions I've wondered about. I hope they get answered, and I think they will. If the Well marks Ages, then to understand what the Hero of Ages really is, we would need to know how it is directly related to the Well, without manipulation.
Also, it does nothing to explain how Ruin was imprisoned there the first place. That's pretty vital.
Another thing I would like to mention once again regards the creation of the Prophecies. Ruin didn't create them, I am certain. He's the force of chaos and destruction, and while he shows the capability to manipulate very craftily, I doubt a force of destruction would create the Prophecies themselves. If he did, he wouldn't have any need to manipulate them in the first place.
That being said, they came from somewhere, definitely before Alendi. I have a potential theory, but it's completely unbased in fact: Perhaps whoever sealed Ruin in the Well to begin with created the Prophecies for some purpose, perhaps to make sure Ruin wasn't freed. Of course, that doesn't make sense because the Prophecies would try to move a potential Hero away from the Well, rather than have that whole temptation to free Ruin. But, I warned you that it was unbased in fact, so it's not a very good theory. Maybe this One Guy who sealed Ruin originally made the prophecies for some other end which we have no idea what it is.
Which leads me to speak of elmandr's HOA theory. Elmandr, you're awesome, but I have always hated this theory, though I tried to minimize comments on it because I could not identify what was the problem. However, I have found the problem.
If Ruin had not manipulated the Prophecies--this manipulation, most or all of it, must've come in Kwaan's time to notice a difference--the correct path would presumably be apparent. If the correct path was to merge with the souls of all the previous Heroes of Ages, then why are the previous Heroes failing all the time? Ruin's not manipulating them (to our knowledge. I'll readily give you the fact that Kwaan doesn't seem to certain about the end, either), so they would not be compelled to fail all the time and choose the supposedly "wrong" option. The Prophecies, I believe, are directed towards defeating the Deepness, which would link the Prophecies to the mists and all the like. However, "defeating" the Deepness was obfuscated by Ruin to change it so "defeating" it would in fact, set it free instead.
In fact, I believe this gives credence to my theory that the Prophecies were created by the One Guy who sealed Ruin inside the Well to begin with. Perhaps the One Guy ascended and similarly to Rashek, realized he made the wrong option. He then created the Prophecies to point people to the real way to defeat the Deepness/Ruin, and unfortunately, Ruin confused that whole thing.
...Interestingly enough, perhaps the Lord Ruler made his own set of "prophecies" about what should have happened in the next Ascension. Maybe that's how they solve the problem. Anyways, I'm going off on tangents.
Elmandr, the correct path to defeat the Hero, in my opinion, would not have a bunch of other Heroes fail and then you merge with all the failures. That's way too convoluted. I find it so incredibly unlikely that a prophecy would say "Fail, then wait many iterations to Succeed." It doesn't make sense! Plus, there is no evidence in the world of Mistborn that even suggests the existence of a soul, or even the mention of an afterlife to begin with. The only thing is the mist spirit itself.
Your theory has the key problem where you have no idea how it operates. How does the Lord Ruler's soul get inside the mist spirit? Isn't that sort of like merging with the mist spirit, which from what I gather, is what you believe that the real Hero should do? It does nothing to explain the existence of the Prophecies--in fact, it seems to completely reject the Prophecies, which I believed was one of the key conflicts in Mistborn: the Keepers finding the Prophecies, and now, finding what the Prophecies really were. That conflict will be resolved. It must be! I refuse to believe that the Prophecies were outright and complete lies, because as I said above, someone had to make them.
In review, the theory is not logical but rather random speculation. I'm not being mean, but it really makes not a darn bit of sense on any level except that it "could" be a solution. But, it doesn't say how that would really help defeating the Deepness.
Two biggest clues in the book that may prove the Mist Spirit=past HOA are:
1.) When Vin uses the mist to destroy TLR.
2.) the mist spirit only appearing post TLR and when the world was...HOA--less, if you will.
Burning Allomancy does not prove anything about previous Heroes. In fact, we have no idea whether Vin is the hero of not. The mist spirit does not appear with the Lord Ruler, but neither does the Deepness. It makes much more sense that whatever the Lord Ruler did to keep Ruin at bay caused both constructs of the mists out of use. Plus, if the mist spirit had the spirits of all the other Heroes, then it wouldn't matter if the world was "Hero-less", because there are a bunch of Heroes inside the mist spirit. Unless you can explain that one to me rationally...
So. The evidence has been refuted and the logic does not make sense on any level. I'd love to hear your response, though. To be honest, elmandr, this was a lot like your Feruchemy theory that you told me over IM, and I disproved every bit of evidence you had for it and showed you why it didn't make any sense. You relented :P
Phew. That was one hell of a rant. I'm sorry if it came off mean, but I endlessly search for logic... and yours had none.
Ok then does any one have anything on deck for tomorrow?
Well, hot damn, my post alone gives me two ideas to discuss, and earlier I came up with another equally good topic. I shall list all three here, but let's not say our opinions on all three at once. One day at a time for each of the three theories. We don't need more tangents, especially considering I know elmandr will protest to my criticism of his theory :P
Okay, the three theories I have related to: 1. The Well, 2. The Hero of Ages, and 3. Preservation. The first two I already spelled out, the third one I didn't :P
1. The Well. To quote myself above: "There could be more ages, that's all. Somehow, I believe it's all tied to the Well itself. Where did it come from? Why does it fill up every thousand years? Does it really fill up every thousand years, or is that just a myth that Ruin manipulated? What is the Well filled with, and where does the Power come from? How does it get filled by "well-liquid", is it just spontaneous? Those are all very key questions I've wondered about. I hope they get answered, and I think they will. If the Well marks Ages, then to understand what the Hero of Ages really is, we would need to know how it is directly related to the Well, without manipulation."
2. The Origin of the Hero of Ages + Discovering what to really do as the Hero. I'm not going to copy and paste this one, but my thought is that a "One Guy" sealed Ruin in the Well in the Age previous to Alendi/Kwaan/Rashek's. Somebody did, and it appears that neither Ruin nor Preservation can get the upper hand without some sort of other being (hence all the controlling and manipulation, I think), so naming this theoretical person One Guy is as good as anyone else. Somehow by utilizing the Well's millennial power, methinks, the One Guy sealed Ruin away, but he realized that that did not permanently defeat Ruin, and then, there would be the Deepness once again. The One Guy created the Prophecies in order to show a future someone what the true path to defeating the Deepness would be.
Furthermore, this could perhaps parallel the clues the Lord Ruler left behind, as the Amazon.com description for MB3 states. The Lord Ruler could realize he has done it wrong... then tried to make some effort to do it right the next time the Well was full.
Heck, this could even mean than any failed person who "Ascended" could reinvent the Prophecies every age. Or something.
3. Preservation. This theory is very under-developed, but here goes anyways. Two quotes to nibble on first:
With this book, I don't want people to assume an immediate time period or culture for this world. In realty, I've stolen from all over the place. My hope is that I'll be able to destroy people's conceptions quickly, then instead build my own world in their mind.
So, here we have a land where the sun is red, ash falls from the sky, mists come upon the land at night, and plants are brown rather than green. In addition, we have a slave population who live like very rural peasants--but, at the same time, Lord Tresting checks his pocket watch in the first scene. Later on, you'll see gothic cathedrals mixing with people in near-modern clothing. It's all just part of the image I'm trying to create--a place that isn't set in any particular time. In fact, it's a little bit frozen in time, as you'll find in later books.
Frozen in time. Okay, and...
It was free--Marsh could still feel it exulting in that--but something kept it from affecting the world too much by itself. An opposition. A force that lay over the land like a shield.
It was not yet complete. It needed more. Something else. . .something hidden. And Marsh would find that something, bring it to his master.
So the completely undeveloped theory here is that the Lord Ruler froze the world somehow in time, most likely by releasing/utilizing Preservation to accomplish such a goal. Frozen, neither Ruin or Preservation could manipulate the mists. Or something.
I included the second quote just because I'm sure it's referring to what is Preservation. "A force that lay over the land like a shield." That's important somehow.
-----------
Okay, there it is. I would start with the Well one, but you can pick whichever you'd like, because I think they are all very good things to discuss.
EDIT: Curse you, Qarlin, and curse my typing speed for being too slow! Well... that's just another theory to add to our queue. That makes four more to discuss! Let's make these discussions awesome! :P
-
Chaos is back, baby.
-
Chaos is back, baby.
Darn right. It was too long since I posted one of those long topics. These things... they just come to me. I hope I am somewhat on base here.
Also, I suggest we go with Qarlin's topic first, because he posted it first. It's only fair.
I, however, will not respond to that one right now. I've written a lot today.
-
Qarlin's question is a very good one that is actually essential to book 3. :)
-
Wahoo!
...
Of course I have no idea what that significance is, yet.
-
Oh, I know it's significant. That much is obvious, but I have no idea how or in what way it is significant.
-
Just had a thought; what if it relates to Snapping?
-
New Subject!
Why does the mist kill some people, shake and make others sick, and leave some completely alone?
...the mists, which could be Preservation, depending on the kind of people the mists killed. Brandon does say in his annotations (Chapter 15)
Mostly, I'm showing the real danger of the mists--that there IS indeed a reason to fear them. Either way, remember one thing from this chapter. Some people were killed (and there's a connection between the two people you've heard described specifically as dying from the mists) some people got away, and some people had seizures, but then were all right later.
Which two people were "Old Jed," described as being a "hard worker" (pg 42). The other was "Old Jell" who was "Bullheaded" (pg 141). More thoughts on that?
Yeah I did some research on that and found they were both old. No seriously thats about all I got.
-
What if, with Ruin making more inquisitors, Preservation is trying to make more Mistborn? Those too old can't take the strain required to Snap and die, those untouched don't have the blood in them, and those who are attacked but then released have Snapped, but like Vin, they're not aware of it because they don't know anything about Allomancy. Vin had to have Kelsier tell her she was Mistborn, otherwise she never would have considered the idea.
-
What if, with Ruin making more inquisitors, Preservation is trying to make more Mistborn? Those too old can't take the strain required to Snap and die, those untouched don't have the blood in them, and those who are attacked but then released have Snapped, but like Vin, they're not aware of it because they don't know anything about Allomancy. Vin had to have Kelsier tell her she was Mistborn, otherwise she never would have considered the idea.
Nice idea, but I just can't quite see hundreds of new mistborn around... It seems insane.
-
There wouldn't have to be hundreds, just a fair number; a few dozen would be tons. And I bet most of them would only be mistings, anyway.
-
I think Qarlin's topic definitely deserves another day. The discussions on it weren't lively enough. Tomorrow I will be more active on that topic :P
In any case, we shall continue to discuss why the Deepness kills some and not others on T-10 days.
The countdown is almost done. Ten days...
-
What if, with Ruin making more inquisitors, Preservation is trying to make more Mistborn? Those too old can't take the strain required to Snap and die, those untouched don't have the blood in them, and those who are attacked but then released have Snapped, but like Vin, they're not aware of it because they don't know anything about Allomancy. Vin had to have Kelsier tell her she was Mistborn, otherwise she never would have considered the idea.
Holy lord. That would be crazy and it's an interesting theory. I wonder, is there any place in those chapters with Sazed that this could be foreshadowed a bit? I actually started WoA again the other day and I'm right at that part. So, when I go through reading it tonight, I'll make sure to keep an eye on that. That's the thing with Mistborn, if you hadn't ingested metals, you would never know. I know you take in a little bit through water/food/dirt(:p) and such but...it's obvious that Vin just thought her 'luck' was coincidence.
The one thing I don't like about this theory is the plausibility. It takes a while to train a Mistborn (or a Misting for that matter). We only have this one book; I highly doubt Vin and the gang would have the time to spare to train new Mistborn/Mistings besides Elend, who seems somewhat proficient at this point anyways. I would make a comparison to The Wheel of Time to further explain this, but I don't feel like spoiling anything for anyone.
As for topics, pass. :D
-
Wow, I like the snapping relation, that's good, and as for the hundreds of Mistborn and mistings running around, I think that not that many were taken and let go. I think most were either unaffected, or killed by the mists, only those with the bloodlines and the latent abilities (which weren't very many) were shaken and then let go.
Perhaps ruin is making the deepness do this, in order to get more skaa mistings to use to make inquisitors.
Sorry I've got no new theories for today, just thought I would comment on Quarlin's.
-
I like the snapping idea. That's about as good of a theory as any. It's a testament to Brandon's skill that he can hide such an important plot point from us. :D
I'd like this one to be the next theory:
2. The Origin of the Hero of Ages + Discovering what to really do as the Hero. I'm not going to copy and paste this one, but my thought is that a "One Guy" sealed Ruin in the Well in the Age previous to Alendi/Kwaan/Rashek's. Somebody did, and it appears that neither Ruin nor Preservation can get the upper hand without some sort of other being (hence all the controlling and manipulation, I think), so naming this theoretical person One Guy is as good as anyone else. Somehow by utilizing the Well's millennial power, methinks, the One Guy sealed Ruin away, but he realized that that did not permanently defeat Ruin, and then, there would be the Deepness once again. The One Guy created the Prophecies in order to show a future someone what the true path to defeating the Deepness would be.
Furthermore, this could perhaps parallel the clues the Lord Ruler left behind, as the Amazon.com description for MB3 states. The Lord Ruler could realize he has done it wrong... then tried to make some effort to do it right the next time the Well was full.
Heck, this could even mean than any failed person who "Ascended" could reinvent the Prophecies every age. Or something.
-
I am a little behind here, but I would like to add one more wrinkle to the Evil Mist theory. The ones who die or have seizures could be Hemalurgists, as well. EUOL stresses many times that pure metals, as well as the correct types, are required for Allomancy. They could also be required for Hemallurgy, so if a Skaa has a piercing of metal that is not pure, Ruin's attempt to "speak" to them through the metal could have very negative consequences.
-
Except you need a blood sacrifice for hemalurgy. Like someone has to die when you get that piercing.
It would be interesting to see what clues TLR left behind. Whether he left reminders for himself as to what he was supposed to do after 1000 years, or even if he's responsible for hiding whatever Ruin is looking for.
-
Ah, darxbane! I simply love that idea about metal purities and impurities! That provides the clearest explanation for just a sickness, rather than death. It very well could be Hemalurgy, or perhaps it could just a recently Snapped Allomancer burning an impure metal and having dire consequences.
Now I definitely need to look at the two old men that died for clues...
-
Ah, darxbane! I simply love that idea about metal purities and impurities! That provides the clearest explanation for just a sickness, rather than death. It very well could be Hemalurgy, or perhaps it could just a recently Snapped Allomancer burning an impure metal and having dire consequences.
Now I definitely need to look at the two old men that died for clues...
Metal impurities, aye? You might be on to something...hmm
-
Ah, darxbane! I simply love that idea about metal purities and impurities! That provides the clearest explanation for just a sickness, rather than death. It very well could be Hemalurgy, or perhaps it could just a recently Snapped Allomancer burning an impure metal and having dire consequences.
Now I definitely need to look at the two old men that died for clues...
Metal impurities, aye? You might be on to something...hmm
Elmandr, did you read my giant post about your mist spirit theory? :P
-
Well then I step away for a weekend and missed a lot of fun. I am a fan of both the "mist making people snap" idea and the "metal impurities" idea. Im surprised at the good ideas that are still being tossed around with such a short time left. Also, Chaos, why did I ever run against you in the election? I for one don't know. That post was awesome. I for one have attempted to question that same theory and I couldn't have done it better than you. You truly are good at what you do. Nothing against you elimandr1 but I have never been a fan of that particular thought.
-
Ah, darxbane! I simply love that idea about metal purities and impurities! That provides the clearest explanation for just a sickness, rather than death. It very well could be Hemalurgy, or perhaps it could just a recently Snapped Allomancer burning an impure metal and having dire consequences.
Now I definitely need to look at the two old men that died for clues...
Metal impurities, aye? You might be on to something...hmm
Elmandr, did you read my giant post about your mist spirit theory? :P
I refuse to make a broken hearted statement...
although, you my friend have forced me to alter the bet for you. It is now that you will have to eat a hat if Vin Or the HOA unites with the Mist Spirit!
-
I have been wondering about the Mist Spirit. It is short, I wonder if there is a reason for that. if it was an embodiment, would it not be tall, like Alendi, or if Rashek joined it instead, was.
-
Are we still theorizing? How would everybody respond to the theory that Kandra and Koloss were humans that the Lord Ruler changed to use as his spies and soldiers? Evidence for this would be
1) the koloss think they are human
2) they have natural reactions and emotions that have been muted but not completely destroyed
3) their basic biology must have come from somewhere; the changes in the world seem to have been generally for the worse, and it is difficult to imagine that TLR somewhere got the knowledge to create things ab inito and produced something functional yet so fundamentally wrong
-
That makes some sense; if holding the power lets you know what it can do without telling you the best way to do it, that's quite possibly what happened. I think that could be an argument for Ruin being the power that TLR touched. Things have been changed in a way that, while they still work, they're wrong. Like Koloss, no Flowers, Ashmounts, etc.
-
That makes some sense; if holding the power lets you know what it can do without telling you the best way to do it, that's quite possibly what happened. I think that could be an argument for Ruin being the power that TLR touched. Things have been changed in a way that, while they still work, they're wrong. Like Koloss, no Flowers, Ashmounts, etc.
However, I believe that the Lord Ruler sort of froze the world in time (see my last page, or the MB1 Prologue Part Two annotation), and that seems awfully more like Preservation to me.
Are we still theorizing? How would everybody respond to the theory that Kandra and Koloss were humans that the Lord Ruler changed to use as his spies and soldiers? Evidence for this would be
1) the koloss think they are human
2) they have natural reactions and emotions that have been muted but not completely destroyed
3) their basic biology must have come from somewhere; the changes in the world seem to have been generally for the worse, and it is difficult to imagine that TLR somewhere got the knowledge to create things ab inito and produced something functional yet so fundamentally wrong
That seems much more likely to me. I don't know if you have the "why" part of that equation down. Kandra are still very mysterious. I'm not sure why the Lord Ruler would create them, only to have the ancient Mistborn hunt them down.
-
That makes some sense; if holding the power lets you know what it can do without telling you the best way to do it, that's quite possibly what happened. I think that could be an argument for Ruin being the power that TLR touched. Things have been changed in a way that, while they still work, they're wrong. Like Koloss, no Flowers, Ashmounts, etc.
However, I believe that the Lord Ruler sort of froze the world in time (see my last page, or the MB1 Prologue Part Two annotation), and that seems awfully more like Preservation to me.
Oh yeah, it's still an option, I just thought I'd present another idea.
Are we still theorizing? How would everybody respond to the theory that Kandra and Koloss were humans that the Lord Ruler changed to use as his spies and soldiers? Evidence for this would be
1) the koloss think they are human
2) they have natural reactions and emotions that have been muted but not completely destroyed
3) their basic biology must have come from somewhere; the changes in the world seem to have been generally for the worse, and it is difficult to imagine that TLR somewhere got the knowledge to create things ab inito and produced something functional yet so fundamentally wrong
That seems much more likely to me. I don't know if you have the "why" part of that equation down. Kandra are still very mysterious. I'm not sure why the Lord Ruler would create them, only to have the ancient Mistborn hunt them down.
Maybe because they proved too incontrollable as a race, like you could only control one at a time. Or maybe the Mistborn hunted them down on their own...
-
Just a question. Did the release date change cause I got my copy today in the mail. I had pre-ordered a copy two weeks ago from Chapters, a national bookstore in Canada.
-
That seems much more likely to me. I don't know if you have the "why" part of that equation down. Kandra are still very mysterious. I'm not sure why the Lord Ruler would create them, only to have the ancient Mistborn hunt them down.
Maybe because they proved too incontrollable as a race, like you could only control one at a time. Or maybe the Mistborn hunted them down on their own...
Their reason for being hunted is not that mysteriouse to me. The power they had was too strong. They could consume a person and become them so perfectly that no one could tell the difference. It would be easy for them to take over without anyone even realizing until it was too late. TLR did too good a job creating his doppelgangers, and probably wanted them eliminated until they agreed to submit.
-
Just a question. Did the release date change cause I got my copy today in the mail. I had pre-ordered a copy two weeks ago from Chapters, a national bookstore in Canada.
... No? Man, if you got the book early, I am so jealous right now.
My preorder from Amazon hasn't shipped yet, so it must just be a Canada thing, I guess.
-
Sweet. By about this time tomorrow, I'll finally be able to imitate Ookla and know the answers to all the questions! Ha Ha Ha!
-
Damn. I think for the first time in my life im jealous of a Canadian. What has become of the world.
Im kidding but really your a lucky person and I am very jealous
-
Darn, that's cool that you got your copy a tad early. I too am jealous. :D
Hopefully there will be no spoilers on here until after the rest of us get a chance to receive our copies and read them. :)
-
Yeah. Once October 14th rolls around, I'm not even coming onto the boards until I have the book finished.
-
I'm debating on whether or not to keep checking the main boards on the 14th (well, the 15th since the best I could do from Amazon was one day delivery), but I know I probably won't have the willpower to not glance down to this forum. Darn my lack of willpower. ;D
-
I have a theory I came up with that I"d like thoughts on (sorry if it's one that's already been discussed. I tried to find it but didn't have any luck.)
What if there are two wells -- one for ruin and one for preservation? I provide the following for support:
WoA, page 719, pb
The mist figure stopped a few feet in front of him and raised its right arm and pointed.
North. Away from Luthandel.
WoA, page 740, pb
"A map?" Elend asked. "That's the Final Empire."
Indeed, a map of the empire was carved into the metal. Luthadel was marked at the center A small circle marked another city nearby.
"Why is Statlin City circled?" Elend asked, frowning.
What if the Hero has a chance to release only one of them, or else has to release both of them?
-
I believe in your first quote, the mist spirit is just trying to guide Vin away from the Well to prevent releasing Ruin.
In your second quote, I doubt that Statlin City is the location of a second Well. It's been a year since MB2, and so Elend and Vin probably already investigated it. Not much important stuff occurs off-screen like that.
-
Agreed but the city could still hold significance. We have yet to have any good background on what has happened over that years time. They could have found some significance in the city or some thing of significance could still happen.
-
What Chaos and Green said. However, there are a number of us, myself included, who feel that there could be two wells.
-
The Mist spirit came to Elend after Vin left, so it's possible that there was another closeby well and it wanted to be released before Vin could release Ruin. I don't know why it wasn't more persistant though.
-
Agreed but the city could still hold significance. We have yet to have any good background on what has happened over that years time. They could have found some significance in the city or some thing of significance could still happen.
Oh, I'm not saying it's insignificant. It's significant--I'm thinking there are one of those storehouses there--we just don't know exactly why.
-
In Aether of Night, there were two wells, one light and one dark.
OK, that is officially my last cryptic comment on Mistborn before the book is released. Now, it's everyone's job to go out and buy and read Alcatraz 2 and start coming up with wacky theories about the third Alcatraz book.
-
Well... I'm probably not going to have a chance to read Alcatraz 1 until after MB3. I really, really want to read it, though.
-
Just posting to let people know that Sam Wellers has sold out of signed numbered copies of MB3.
-
It's so frustrating to know the answers but not be able to say anything. Some of you guys are way off and others are right on the mark. You get a lot of answers only twenty pages after the sample chapter with Elend/Vin. One word to describe this book, WOW!!!
-
It won't be much longer for you lowly Americans to catch up to Canada ;D
-
It's not nearly as frustrating as you teasing us on every post, Coof. :(
-
Hey, I treasure Coof's opinion, because he likes the book. That means I won't be frustrated by it (probably. Ookla still says some people won't like the ending), which is great.
And I assume that the answers happen after the sample chapters because then you get to more clearly understand what happened at the Well, like what is meant precisely by "the origin of allomancy". You don't get those in the sample chapters because we get a sweet action sequence.
Not long now, though...
What did everyone think of my theory about Preservation (see the bottom of the giant post on Page 16, theory #3)?
-
I have nothing to say against it. :) The world being held frozen, perhaps just a bit before it's all supposed to end because of the deepness.
-
Or, perhaps the world being frozen is the thing that kept Ruin at bay.
-
Chaos, you're theory is very interesting indeed. The answer, surprisingly, is contained in the first two books. I have a question for you.
Is it Ruin and Preservation that change and affect the world, or the people that live in the world?
-
Coof, thanks for the hints, but they're more just annoying than helping right now. I'd rather theorize with those who don't know than be patronized by those who do. Even if it's well meant.
-
It's funny how we are going back to theories we came up with all the way back in May, only with more evidence to back them up. We may not have been so far off after all.
Edit: Chaos, you only like Coof's posts because you hope he'll slip up. I know how impatient you are. :P
-
Actually, darxbane, I'm going to go with Qarlin on this one and ask Coof to not make vague hints like that. I know the power is exhilarating, Coof, but I don't want any conceivable part of the book spoiled :P
-
I like the Preservation theory, Chaos. One of my favorites actually. Makes many much sense.
And I agree, coof. We're happy for you, but the hints are annoying.
-
Oh sure, when I say his hints are annoying, you say this:
Hey, I treasure Coof's opinion, because he likes the book. That means I won't be frustrated by it (probably. Ookla still says some people won't like the ending), which is great
Then Qarlin jumps in, and now your all in agreement. I see how it is :(
-
:P Heh.
Darxbane, you know there's a difference between knowing someone likes the book and hearing all about it before you get to read it.
Or you could tell yourself that I just have better timing, take your pick. :P
-
Okay, blatantly random theory time:
What if the Lord Ruler created atium?
-
I'd thought about that before, and haven't been able to choose a side. My only argument against it would be that it would mean that TLR created allomancy as well, otherwise you wouldn't have that nice 4 pairs of 4 system until after Atium and Malatium were made.
-
Yeah, I'm not sure what I think. Atium and Malatium aren't real world metals like the rest, so it lends itself to TLR creating his own. However, I thought that Atium existed prior to TLR because it was part of his bracers.
-
Yeah, I'm not sure what I think. Atium and Malatium aren't real world metals like the rest, so it lends itself to TLR creating his own. However, I thought that Atium existed prior to TLR because it was part of his bracers.
Maybe he created it just so he could make the bracers out of them.
-
Maybe he created it just so he could make the bracers out of them.
Or these bracers were pre-ascension in the form of 'Piercings of the Hero'.
-
Maybe he created it just so he could make the bracers out of them.
Or these bracers were pre-ascension in the form of 'Piercings of the Hero'.
Well, yes. But they don't provide any evidence one way of the other as to atium's existence in mistborn, pre-Lord Ruler.
-
The bracers would have been useless unless the Lord Ruler had both Allomancy and Feruchemy.
Still, Feruchemy existed pre-Ascension and used the metals. I don't know what to think if Feruchemy didn't have all 16 metals.
That's why I brought the theory up, because it's interesting :P
-
Well, yes. But they don't provide any evidence one way of the other as to atium's existence in mistborn, pre-Lord Ruler.
If the bracers were the 'Piercings of the Hero' prior to ascension, are made with Atium and designed in such a way that they must be ripped from the flesh to remove them from the body, a small case can be made for the metals existing prior to ascension. While it might not be concrete evidence, it is still evidence. What evidence do we have that TLR created the metal?
-
Well, primarily the fact that it is an exceptionally odd metal. It's the only metal (not counting 13/14 yet, we don't know of those yet) that is made up for this world. I find it exceptionally odd it only spawns in one place, and in that place, the atium geodes react to Allomancy.
Furthermore, there is a reason why the kandra only take atium as payment, but I don't know what it is.
It's not coincidental. It's special in some way, so I just randomly threw out there that the Lord Ruler could have created atium.
-
Yeah, I had mentioned that it was weird that Brandon made up two of the metals, when everything else existed IRL.
As far as spawning in one place, I believe this is only mentioned in a conversation between Kelsier and Ham, so it is possible that it spawns other locations. According to Wiki, Chromium in it's native form is rare, with a mine in Russia being the only one listed. I know there are other metals concentrated in certain geographic areas, so Atium forming naturally in one area is not unheard of.
Contracts. There is obviously something more to this story, however it could be something as simple as trying to keep as much out of TLR's hands as possible or because it is easier to hold one Atium nugget than a huge purse full of coins. If they really needed the atium, I don't see why they wouldn't just find a way to sneak into the Pits of Hathsin and get it themselves. They could eat some guard and prisoner bodies or something and being natively blind might locate it much easier than Skaa could.
-
That's true. The Pits wouldn't be guarded by Allomancers, so if they truly had motivation, they could succeed.
-
Yeah, I had mentioned that it was weird that Brandon made up two of the metals, when everything else existed IRL.
As far as spawning in one place, I believe this is only mentioned in a conversation between Kelsier and Ham, so it is possible that it spawns other locations. According to Wiki, Chromium in it's native form is rare, with a mine in Russia being the only one listed. I know there are other metals concentrated in certain geographic areas, so Atium forming naturally in one area is not unheard of.
Contracts. There is obviously something more to this story, however it could be something as simple as trying to keep as much out of TLR's hands as possible or because it is easier to hold one Atium nugget than a huge purse full of coins. If they really needed the atium, I don't see why they wouldn't just find a way to sneak into the Pits of Hathsin and get it themselves. They could eat some guard and prisoner bodies or something and being natively blind might locate it much easier than Skaa could.
It's perfectly possible that they do need the atium for something, that the Mistborn of old knew why and that part of the deal they made with humanity was that the atium they needed would be supplied to them in exchange for the services provided, as we have seen.
Remember: humans (with mistborn) had the upper hand in the negotiations.
-
To go along with my Preservation theory, here's a quote from p.555 of MB2, hardback:
"The Lord Ruler," she whispered. "He created the Ashmounts. The records say he made the vast deserts around the empire, that he broke the land in order to preserve it.
I just thought that was interesting.
EDIT: Another interesting one:
Vin joined him. They had walked in the passage for some time, leaving the storage cavern far behind, walking through a natural stone tunnel. It had ended here, at a second, slightly smaller cavern that was clogged with a thick, dark smoke. It didn't seep out of the cavern, as it should have, but billowed and churned upon itself.
Vin stepped forward. The smoke didn't choke her, as she expected. There was something oddly welcoming about it.
Could the reason why this smoke didn't choke her the same reason the ash doesn't choke?
-
Here's a few more discussion points, from re-reading the sample chapters.
Prologue:
What knowledge could Ruin learn from the synod that it already hadn't corrupted?
Chapter 2:
"Accept death," the voice hissed quietly. "Do not put yourself in a position to cause further harm to our people...."
How could TenSoon do further harm? Why does this voice want him to accept death rather than speak out at trial?
Chapter 3:
Elend flared pewter. A warm sensation--now familiar to him--burst to life in his chest, and his muscles became taut with extra strength and energy.
Does he have a touch of Terrisman in him that his muscles experience a physical change?
-
It would be interesting if Elend had a bit of Terrisman in him. How much do we really know about the lord's of the Final Empire, other than they were the descendants of the families that stood by TLR during his ascension?
-
I think that may just be kind of like flexing muscles as they are used. Giving them more strength and durability also created an unconscious tensing of the muscles.
EDIT: Random Theory: What if the TLR was actually Kwaan? No basis for it, except:
- Rashek didn't necessarily have to take the power right after killing Alendi; he could have reported back to his uncle. However, when Kwaan took the power and went against the prophecies, then Rashek could have turned on him, thinking he'd gone mad or something.
- That way, TLR doesn't have the prejudice against the people of Khellenium, but might have one against his own people, knowing that they are susceptible to Ruin's influence, and how none of them supported him when he turned against Alendi.
- He would know more what he was to do with the power than Rashek
- He would consider it a burden rather than the right to rule.
So, yeah. Random theory.
-
T-4 days! Can you feel the excitement?
We'll go with Qarlin's post because I think it would make a "lively" discussion. Random and questionable theories do that :P
-
The only problem with that theory is that EUOL says TLR is Rashek in the annotation for the chapter in MB1 where Vin defeats him, or one of the adjacent chapters at least.
-
T-4 days! Can you feel the excitement?
We'll go with Qarlin's post because I think it would make a "lively" discussion. Random and questionable theories do that :P
HA! I just received my copy...i really want to finish it before the fourteenth--for the sake of figuring out whether or not HAT is going to be apart of my diet plan... :-\
-
T-4 days! Can you feel the excitement?
We'll go with Qarlin's post because I think it would make a "lively" discussion. Random and questionable theories do that :P
HA! I just received my copy...i really want to finish it before the fourteenth--for the sake of figuring out whether or not HAT is going to be apart of my diet plan... :-\
Gah. Where did you order from? Jeez...
-
It's probably time for a friendly reminder, for everyone who gets the book, that NO SPOILERS should be discussed in a thread unless the thread title has the word SPOILERS in it. If you want to respond to something in another thread with your spoilers, make an entirely new thread. (And make sure the thread title itself does not contain any spoilers.)
It also might be nicest not to post any spoiler threads until the 15th.
-
I would also like to remind everyone that elmandr1 is probably full of it. Like he would be on the forum after having received his copy instead of reading it. I did get a notification that mine is ready for pickup however. I might have to go home early.
-
...I'm just sad Amazon hasn't shipped mine yet.
-
I just checked my Amazon order and it shipped on the 8th!! Of course, it is still estimated to arrive on the 15th, but at least it is in transit now. It left Pheonix yesterday, so I hope it takes less than 6 days to get to my house. Check out the new annotation when you get a chance. EUOL links the mist spirit to the well.
-
Interesting. We always seem to talk about the mist spirit and its relevance to "Preservation", but not directly linking it to the Well. Maybe its like, the guardian of the Well?
-
Or the guardian of the metal lake, I've posted my thoughts in the Ruin/Preservation thread.
My amazon copy says it's coming on the 14th... the day after I get back to school, so Iprobably won't get mine tioll the fifteenth or sixteenth (baH!)
-
I just got a call from B&N... my book is ready for pick-up!!!
Only problem... I was expecting the book on the 14th... I get paid on the 15th and I currently only have $5. So much for floating a check, don't think it'll float til Wednesday. GAHH!
-
I had pitched the guardian theory before, but it could also mean that the Mist Spirit and the Well are of the same power. That would mean that Ruin must have his own power supply somewhere, and that is what Marsh has been tasked with finding. The well's power being released allowed Ruin to be free, but only the release of his own power will allow him to conquer. Maybe.
-
I have an essay due Monday, and if it comes late Tuesday, then that will be just perfect. My only Wednesday class got canceled :D
-
Its interesting thinking there is a link between the spirit and the well. It makes me think that perhaps the well is the source of all the powers we know of. Perhaps both Ruin and Preservation were born of the wells power at one point. I would have a hard time thinking that the spirit was a protector. I mean the only thing that it did was stab Elend and cause Vin too want to take the power and not release Ruin. In this case the spirit, Ruin and Preservation could have all come from the well. I mean the spirit didnt really guard the well it kind of came to Vin before she even went to the well. I dont know I never thought they were connected, forgive my rambling thoughts.
-
I'm not awake enough to make a comment on that. I think I'm just too paralyzed in excitement for the book that I can't make any more theories.
Though, in other news, in my Texts and Critics class, we had a day where we picked books that people HAD to read, and I brought in Mistborn. Now I'm buying several copies for the class to read :P Did you know that if you buy four Mistborn paperbacks, you get one for free? I certainly didn't, but now I do.
So I might have just bought six more copies of Mistborn. You know, to get the free shipping on Amazon. ...Totally worth it.
-
Thats cool. A class discussion on Mistborn would be interesting.
-
Haha, I don't know if we'll have time in the schedule for that, but I'll definitely hunt them down afterwards, though to ask what they think.
-
Next theory:
Wouldn't the Lord Ruler try to actively eliminate the Terris Prophecies from existence? Could this be why there is very little evidence for them anymore?
-
That would go with his trying to eliminate all the keepers, who had said knowledge. Also we should remember that 1000 years is a really really long time. Tons of knowledge has been lost in the real world in that period of time. Granted, this storyline has Keepers and such, but you notice we haven't heard anything, hardly, of all the other prophecies from the other cultures. Which were referred to by Tindwyl in WOA.
-
Sorry i haven't been posting lately...i'm two hundred pages in! It's Awesome!
-
I officially hate you elmandr1, Especially for that Spoilers thread you posted. I haven't read it, but the fact that the knowledge I seek could be a click away maddens me greatly! But I will be strong, I will resist. I will discover these secrets for myself soon enough!
Curse You!
-
I officially hate you elmandr1, Especially for that Spoilers thread you posted. I haven't read it, but the fact that the knowledge I seek could be a click away maddens me greatly! But I will be strong, I will resist. I will discover these secrets for myself soon enough!
Curse You!
Read it, there aren't any spoilers in it yet--i merely put it there so that when people have already read the book can discuss it there...thats all. At ease my friend. Go ahead and read it.
-
No tormenting us yet, elmandr :P I still have yet to post my comprehensive theories in the Final Theories topic. I still have until the end of Monday before I do.
EDIT: Also, it helps if you spell "spoilers" right in your topic. :P
-
I officially hate you elmandr1, Especially for that Spoilers thread you posted. I haven't read it, but the fact that the knowledge I seek could be a click away maddens me greatly! But I will be strong, I will resist. I will discover these secrets for myself soon enough!
Curse You!
Read it, there aren't any spoilers in it yet--i merely put it there so that when people have already read the book can discuss it there...thats all. At ease my friend. Go ahead and read it.
He tries so hard to trickses us precious, he does, he does. Nasty, wicked Elmadr1.
-
I looked in there--nothing is there. Well, except for spelling "spoilers" wrong, lol.
-
I officially hate you elmandr1, Especially for that Spoilers thread you posted. I haven't read it, but the fact that the knowledge I seek could be a click away maddens me greatly! But I will be strong, I will resist. I will discover these secrets for myself soon enough!
Curse You!
Read it, there aren't any spoilers in it yet--i merely put it there so that when people have already read the book can discuss it there...thats all. At ease my friend. Go ahead and read it.
He tries so hard to trickses us precious, he does, he does. Nasty, wicked Elmadr1.
you know you want to...and why would i lie? would go would it do me...
this must be unnerving for you....
-
I might be playing up my torment a bit, exaggerating a tad if you will, however it is still there, and is very very real!
-
I might be playing up my torment a bit, exaggerating a tad if you will, however it is still there, and is very very real!
really go read the new thread--its really quite touching and i haven't written anything in there that which would reveal anything about book three...
-
We are pretty amazing.
-
We are pretty amazing.
Yeah, i thought about it and could just picture us, andrew, you, camotose, Vegasdev, myself, miyabe...really it goes on.
anyway--we are the crew.
-
I call being KEL-SI-ERRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ha.
-
I call being KEL-SI-ERRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ha.
how can you be Kelsier, you don't even know whats going on--let alone bear the foresight he had. Your more like...Demoux. lol.
-
Well, I'm the Hero of Ages, so I won't pick who I am until I read the Book. Yes, I am capitalizing it now.
-
Well, I'm the Hero of Ages, so I won't pick who I am until I read the Book. Yes, I am capitalizing it now.
that is a really tempting post to reply to...i think i may have to logout, and remain so until the 16th.
oh, geeze, chaos...oh, geeze.
-
Perhaps it would be best if you stopped commenting on this thread because it's a theory topic :P
-
I don't know about that...elmandr1, just go ahead and let us know if more than half of our theories were right.
-
I don't know about that...elmandr1, just go ahead and let us know if more than half of our theories were right.
some we close, others not even...one, one was right.
-
I would like to post official notice that I will only be visiting a few select threads until I get my copy of MB3. So if I randomly stop replying, that's why.
I would also like to post official notice that I hate anyone who already has MB3. For the time being.
I would also like to point out that there are 3 days left. I'm trying very hard to not press the caps-lock key and express my excitement very loudly. I hope you are all proud of my self-discipline.
-
I would like to post official notice that I will only be visiting a few select threads until I get my copy of MB3. So if I randomly stop replying, that's why.
I would also like to post official notice that I hate anyone who already has MB3. For the time being.
I would also like to point out that there are 3 days left. I'm trying very hard to not press the caps-lock key and express my excitement very loudly. I hope you are all proud of my self-discipline.
It would make a proud man cry, my dear man.
-
I would also like to post my official notice that I am very upset that all of the bookstores in my area insist on following the rules. ALL of them have it in, and not one of them is willing to sell it before the 14th. Curse their compliance with rules!
-
elmandr1...
Please Shut-up. It's only a matter of time before you give something away. I'm saying this as kindly and respectfully as I can, and I do it out of concern for your life. Say no more.
Fine. Brandon gets to be Kelsier. I'll take Spook then. Lord Ruler knows, I'm good enough at talking nonsense to be him.
-
I don't know about that...elmandr1, just go ahead and let us know if more than half of our theories were right.
No, no replies because this is a theory topic. We cannot be plagued by those pesky things like "answers", lol. That's not how we operate around these parts!
-
elmandr1...
Please Shut-up. It's only a matter of time before you give something away. I'm saying this as kindly and respectfully as I can, and I do it out of concern for your life. Say no more.
Fine. Brandon gets to be Kelsier. I'll take Spook then. Lord Ruler knows, I'm good enough at talking nonsense to be him.
my lips are sealed--im done teasing and insinuating things...i promise.
-
Yes, that's right. You bow to my authority!
-
I would like to post official notice that I will only be visiting a few select threads until I get my copy of MB3. So if I randomly stop replying, that's why.
I would also like to post official notice that I hate anyone who already has MB3. For the time being.
I would also like to point out that there are 3 days left. I'm trying very hard to not press the caps-lock key and express my excitement very loudly. I hope you are all proud of my self-discipline.
/nod. I think this is the last time I am visiting the forums until I'm done with MB3. I'm finishing WoA again tonight.
-
You are lucky to have time to reread WoA. I only had time to read the very end once again. Accursed college work!
-
I finished my reread of WOA last week, and FE before that, so I think I'm all set.
-
I'll probably just reread the entire trilogy after Tuesday :P
So... my grand list of theories is 2/9ths done, at about 1500 words. This is going to be a massive post.
Furthermore, UtopiaGreen is back, but let's abstain from posting in that topic.
-
On the crew note, I've decided that Ookla either has to be the Mist Spirit, for his mysteriousness, or The Lord Ruler, for his sense of self worth and because he knows everything already.
Utopia can be Camon. Noone likes Camon.
-
T-2 days! Holy crap!
Here's one of my final zany theories:
What if atium was a manifestation of Ruin or Preservation's power? What if the atium cache is the thing Ruin wants to gain to get full power?
...It's not exactly a developed theory, but hey, I'm tired. So I'm gonna go with that.
-
I think I'm too emotionally tapped out, and hysterically excited to theorize anymore. I just can't do it. I'm done. I'm all out of juice. Now it's just a waiting game.
Oh, and elmandr1, I finally caved and looked at your post. I forgive you (mostly) for reading the book several days before I got my copy.
-
I think I'm too emotionally tapped out, and hysterically excited to theorize anymore. I just can't do it. I'm done. I'm all out of juice. Now it's just a waiting game.
Oh, and elmandr1, I finally caved and looked at your post. I forgive you (mostly) for reading the book several days before I got my copy.
forgiven my friend. Spook right? yeah thats right, your Spook--unimportant, forgettable Spook... :-*
-
I'll take the Mist Spirit. Thanks. :)
It amazes me how much you guys have managed to get right through endless theorizing and discussion. It's a very synergistic process—if you hadn't been able to hash out your theories like this, I bet that no single person would have gotten nearly as close as you did.
So my question is: Are you going to enjoy book 3 more or less for it? It seems obvious that someone else who loved the first books just as much as you, but didn't come to the message board to see what everyone else thought, will be more surprised by book 3. Whose state upon reading book 3 will be more enviable? I'm tempted to say the ones who didn't come here, but then again, you have stretched out your enjoyment to months.
-
Lol thats a good point. We have been enjoying the book since long before its released ;)
I've kind've thought about that before, whether I'll enjoy the book less because of constant theorizing. I'm tempted to think I won't, because its just so much fun when you figure something out on your own instead of being spoon-fed by an author.
Of course that rather hinges on the idea that we did figure things out, although from the above post I would think so :D
-
I'll take the Mist Spirit. Thanks. :)
It amazes me how much you guys have managed to get right through endless theorizing and discussion. It's a very synergistic process—if you hadn't been able to hash out your theories like this, I bet that no single person would have gotten nearly as close as you did.
So my question is: Are you going to enjoy book 3 more or less for it? It seems obvious that someone else who loved the first books just as much as you, but didn't come to the message board to see what everyone else thought, will be more surprised by book 3. Whose state upon reading book 3 will be more enviable? I'm tempted to say the ones who didn't come here, but then again, you have stretched out your enjoyment to months.
You're definitely right, Ookla. It really shows the importance of bouncing ideas off of others in writing--even for these theories, it has been invaluable to get outside input.
I can't know for certain how I will like MB3--of course, I expect to love it, but I can't be certain. However, there's something to be said for at least identifying the proper questions before delving into MB3. Others who don't go on the message board (or didn't read the annotations) would be really surprised at the existence of something like Hemalurgy or Preservation, whereas we have identified virtually all base concepts, only to realize we don't know a whole lot about them. That's what I've noticed as I've been working on my Final HoA theories (it's a massive post, and I'm still not done): we know a lot, but it turns out there are many more questions than answers.
We've identified particular questions, because we know roughly the mechanics of Hemalurgy and other things. Will that make the book more enjoyable? I sure hope so, and from elmandr's enthusiasm, I think it will be.
For me, Zane was something I would not have thought about if I hadn't gone to the forums. I totally missed virtually all the important clues about Zane, by the time I read Book Three, I would not have made the connection of spikes, and therefore Hemalurgy. I would have smiled in wonder at the final connection, but I think I would've forgotten a lot of key details about MB1 and 2 had we not rigorously dissected them.
It will be a fundamentally different form of wonder. I wouldn't smile in wonder from the fact that something like Hemalurgy exists, but how Hemalurgy works and fits in with the other magic systems. I would smile in wonder to know who or what the Hero of Ages is. I would smile in wonder to know the relationship with Ruin, Preservation, the Well, and the mist spirit is, and I would smile in wonder to know what the final two metals are and what they do. It wouldn't be such a shock to the system as it could be for someone who didn't look so incredibly intently. We know what the questions are, and we yearn for the answers. As you said, Ookla, we've extended the experience for months, and now the effort finally pays off.
:D And I know it will be wondrous. I just don't know how wondrous it will be until I'm done reading it.
I really hope I get my massive theory post done today. I've still got a considerable ways to go on it, but of course, it has to be done by tomorrow. It's depth is colossal :D
-
It's really crazy talking to my friends who have read both books, but haven't been on the boards. I take it for granted that they've realized things like Vin's earring, and the whole hemalurgy thing, but they have no idea what I'm talking about, even though I think that these things are basic knowledge now, it's really quite interesting.
I have to say, it's been an absolute blast, I wouldn't have it any other way, I've a ctually thought about this before, how this time I might see some of those twists coming, and they won't surprise me like they usually do, but I think I'll enjoy the book just as much, especially the gloating stage at the end when I'm proven right (I wish).
Spook is actually one of my favorite characters.
Maybe once the book is out, Ookla will be more of a Breeze character, one who's been manipulating us the entire time.
-
I'm sure I'll enjoy the book just as much if not more because of my time here on the boards.
After all, it's not the facts that make up a story, it's the telling of those facts. We may have deduced as many facts as we had time for, but when Brandon tells us those facts it'll still be amazing.
>.> Besides, I'm holding out to be a supporter of the one theory that's supposedly entirely true.
-
OK, so I came out with a Crew List:
Kelsier- Brandon (He's the man with the plan)
Elend- Chaos (you won the election after all, why not be king? Also you're obliviousness to Zane seems to fit)
Dockson- Andrew (always opposing Chaos, but you have some of the same ideas, it seem to fit)
Twindyl- SarahG (It just seemed to fit, to me at least.)
TenSoon- Reaves (Since you're about to change faces, I think you're losing your bet by the way)
Ham- Czanos (I didn't decide this until after your last post, always the optimist aren't you?)
Spook- Greenmonsta (You had a lot of typos at first, but now we can understand you perfectly ;).)
Oer Seur- elmandr (he knows the plan, but he's not telling any of us.)
Mist Spirit- Ookla (mysteriousness supreme).
Breeze- Miyabi (He's the one who I could see hating facial hair as much as you do ;))
Sazed- Qarlin (You're a bit of a peace keeper between Andrew and Chaos, and he's your pick for the hero, so I think that fits).
Clubs- Rhuan (You're so serious, especially after that Rick Astley stunt).
Vin- Vintage (Get it, VIN tage. By the way, where has she been?)
Marsh- VegesDev (Because he's staring daggers at me for not including him sooner.)
Zane- Comatose (The Forum Nut Case of Course)
Mistwraith- Utopia (Mostly Brainless, more of an instinctual creature)
-
On the other hand, we do sort of set up expectations for our own theories, and when Brandon knocks them down, that could be little disheartening. I don't think it will be disheartening to the point where it ruins the experience of the book; in fact, the way Brandon explains them will probably have a considerably greater amount of clarity to them.
Still, if my Hemalurgy theory is completely wrong, I will be slightly sad until I realize that the true way it operates works much, much clearer. It will be a short disheartenment, then I will be rubbing my eyes in wonder on how awesome Brandon's complex magic systems work. :D
Also Comatose: Elend really has been my favorite character. I could totally see myself reading instead of partying, I'm geeky, and heck, I did create a system of government in the Heroic Debates. I am so colossally Elend it is not even funny.
-
There's a certain theory that was rejected. If you're someone who rejected it, I want you to come screaming in here after you read Chapter 19 (or the closest Spook chapter to chapter 19, in case the chapters got moved around). You'll know it when you see it. And oh yes, you're going to be screaming.
-
Ookla!
That thought is going to keep me up all night!
-
I know I claimed that my post 5 days ago was the last cryptic comment I would make, but I guess it was just the last one bringing up any new information. I just thought you needed reminding of this one (which I'm not going to spell out for obvious reasons).
And then of course there's also chapter four. You know who you are.
-
Okay, Ookla, we get it. Some theories are right, some theories are wrong. Either this topic or The Crew topic can be the topic where we settle our bets. And the "I told you so"'s, of course.
-
OK, so I came out with a Crew List:
Kelsier- Brandon (He's the man with the plan)
Elend- Chaos (you won the election after all, why not be king? Also you're obliviousness to Zane seems to fit)
Dockson- Andrew (always opposing Chaos, but you have some of the same ideas, it seem to fit)
Twindyl- SarahG (It just seemed to fit, to me at least.)
TenSoon- Reaves (Since you're about to change faces, I think you're losing your bet by the way)
Ham- Czanos (I didn't decide this until after your last post, always the optimist aren't you?)
Spook- Greenmonsta (You had a lot of typos at first, but now we can understand you perfectly ;).)
Oer Seur- elmandr (he knows the plan, but he's not telling any of us.)
Mist Spirit- Ookla (mysteriousness supreme).
Breeze- Miyabi (He's the one who I could see hating facial hair as much as you do ;))
Sazed- Qarlin (You're a bit of a peace keeper between Andrew and Chaos, and he's your pick for the hero, so I think that fits).
Clubs- Rhuan (You're so serious, especially after that Rick Astley stunt).
Vin- Vintage (Get it, VIN tage. By the way, where has she been?)
For the rest, I haven't forgotten you, I'm still thinking. I'll finish up in a bit.
Mmm. Nice list, but I can offer you an alternative for some of them.
Brandon - Preservation. He's like this vast omnipotent keeper of this world. He's all-powerful, knows everything there is to know and then some, and is completely assured about the fate of the world. He's also an optimist, and tries to protect his world from Ruin.
I can see Chaos2651 as Elend, for sure. The logical mind, dedicated personality, they all fit.
Andrew and Dockson seem like a pretty good match. Even more so if Chaos2651 is Elend.
I agree with SarahG and Tindwyl, they both seem kind of . . . yeah.
I don't know about TenSoon and Reaves. We don't know a whole lot about TenSoon to judge a personality off of. I can see him as OreSeur though . . .
As for myself, I honestly can't see me being Ham. I may be an optimist like he is, but I'm a stickler for formality most of the time, and if I was a Misting I'm pretty sure I'd end up a coinshot. Of course, this makes pinning me down kind of hard, as we haven't had a Steel or Iron Misting on the crew. I've been told I'm a lot like Kelsier before, but I don't think I know enough about him to judge that. Maybe Zane. Maybe random coincshot misting #42. I don't know.
Spook and GreenMonsta I can see, for about the same reason.
Elmandr1 I could see as the obligator who stayed to help out Elend's new empire. He knows the story, has the knowledge, supports Chaos2651, and a myriad of other things I thought of earlier but can't remember anymore.
Ookla and the Mist Spirit are really just peachy where they are.
Miyabi I can actually see as Ham. Smart, convention-breaking, dedicated. Appreciative of knowledge and learning, interested in others lives, all that fun stuff. And I can see Ham disliking facial hair.
Qarlin I see as Lord Penrod. Calm, controlled, and knowledgeable.
I can live with Rhuan and Clubs. Seems to fit pretty well.
And I'm sure we all had a nice laugh at the Vin/Vintage puns.
As for new additions, I'll just add Darxbane as (Raoden pretending to be a Dula! Oops. Wrong book.) Sazed, I think. He's always calm, and can debate things well. Doesn't rush to get involved in theorizing, but when he does he always has valid points to add.
Oh, and don't forget . . . Brenna, as the time-traveling Mistborn of moderation; Spriggan as whoever is writing the Mistborn:The Hero of Ages bumps (He knows all of the behind-the-scenes workings.); and Fellfrosch as Ruin.
Hmm, that was fun. I'll have to do this again sometime. Especially because my list omits a Breeze character.
NOT AN EDIT AT ALL: VegasDev is Breeze. >.>
-
Wow, VegasDev is going to be pissed when he realizes he's not on the crew.
...Cough, don't forget about VegasDev. He's been here longer than I have!
-
I don't know what you're talking about, Vegas is right there at the bottom of my post. >.>
(Sorry VegasDev!)
-
Haha, nice cover.
I was intending that there wouldn't be a theory for the final day of theorizing, T-1, but then, I thought of a pretty awesome one to go for. It will be fitting that it will be the final theory for this thread. However, I'm not going to post it until I go to bed, because I'm still madly working on my Final HoA theory set. It's very intensive, and of course, I need to get the thing done before the end of Monday.
-
I am seriously looking forward to both that post and this topic of debate.
And I just realized I forgot to add Coma into my post as well. Gah. Maybe I'll try again tomorrow when I can actually think.
-
Dude Czanos, this giant theory topic I have is epically long. At this very moment, I am approximately halfway through it at 5300 words long. It is colossal. I'm almost worried I might hit a potential character limit for a single post...
-
Advice from someone who's been in your shoes before, save a copy of your post on your computer before you attempt to post it. I remember I wrote a small novel of a post once on another forum and watched as all but the first 250 words were chopped. It was terrible. And congratulations on a theoretical 10,000 word post. It'll be awesome, I know.
Anyways, it's off to bed with me. Night all.
-
Oh, of course I'm typing this out on Notepad. This is like my third session of typing it :P I gotta save it somewhere. But I do appreciate the advice. ...250 words was the max for a forum post? Well, I definitely know that forum wasn't TWG, that's for sure...
-
Double posting by necessity.
I posted my gigantic theory of every conceivable thing I ever had a theory about. It's long.
And now, the final theory.
T-1 Day Until MB3!
How does Ruin interact with the world? I look at the kandra, saying that men are of Ruin and will destroy themselves and think that Ruin doesn't actually destroy the world. It causes men to destroy themselves.
In addition to discussing this, any random last thoughts any of us have before the 14th should be placed here, too. Unless, of course, you've already read the book, in which case we'd have to slap you for cheating like that :P
Oh, and this topic can be the place where people are giddy and go "WEE! I JUST GOT HERO OF AGES!" because I am definitely going to do that when my Amazon order decides to ship.
-
I was thinking a good final topic would be, why was the book originally titled The Final Hero instead of The Hero of Ages. Vin is going to have to sacrifice herself at the second well and all magic will be destroyed... no more magic, no more heroes.
-
Double posting by necessity.
I posted my gigantic theory of every conceivable thing I ever had a theory about. It's long.
And now, the final theory.
T-1 Day Until MB3!
How does Ruin interact with the world? I look at the kandra, saying that men are of Ruin and will destroy themselves and think that Ruin doesn't actually destroy the world. It causes men to destroy themselves.
In addition to discussing this, any random last thoughts any of us have before the 14th should be placed here, too. Unless, of course, you've already read the book, in which case we'd have to slap you for cheating like that :P
Oh, and this topic can be the place where people are giddy and go "WEE! I JUST GOT HERO OF AGES!" because I am definitely going to do that when my Amazon order decides to ship.
I'd love to comment Chaos, but i believe im out by default... :-\
Anyone who finishes the book, i will begin posting my thoughts on the "The Crew" thread as soon as tomorrow midnight...i have actually written down my post and saved it...im just waiting now!
-
Oh the horror; not only was I nearly forgotten, but now I am being compared to Breeze most likely because he was a babbling semi-conscious bag of wind at the end of MB2. I think I would prefer to be forgotten. *sniffle*
-
I was thinking a good final topic would be, why was the book originally titled The Final Hero instead of The Hero of Ages. Vin is going to have to sacrifice herself at the second well and all magic will be destroyed... no more magic, no more heroes.
Yeah, I had a similar idea that the mists would be destroyed, which would destroy all magic as well as cripple Ruin and Preservation. The only problem with that is Brandon said there could be a second or third trilogy with Allomancers in a different setting, so I don't think Allomancy is destroyed :P
-
Well, I'm certainly willing to be Tindwyl, since she's an appealing character to me. However, the fact that no one is willing to explain how I'm like her suggests that the comparison is negative. But that's fair enough. I agree that I'm the bossy old lady who tells everyone what they're doing wrong (I haven't counselled any kings in the concepts of leadership, but I do occasionally correct people's grammar). I'm grouchy and cynical and opinionated and easily annoyed. I disapprove of people who break the rules. But in spite of that, the love of my life is the most selfless, caring, generous, thoughtful, humble, self-effacing, intelligent, self-controlled, noble and heroic man I know. So I'll gladly take the role of Tindwyl, even if it means being feared and disliked by the other crew members, even if it means only appearing in one book and dying at the end of it.
-
Oh come on, I was a late addition as Breeze. Breeze! Besides, since female characters are at a premium, it's less about who you are and more about who you are not.
-
Hey, Elend does respect you! That counts. That counts big time.
And Breeze is awesome. Don't belittle his awesomeness :P
-
And Breeze is awesome. Don't belittle his awesomeness :P
When I think of Breeze, I don't picture awesomeness. He hides his identity and true feelings from his own friends and becomes a babbling idiot when confronted with death.
-
That qualifies him for awesomeness. He began in MB1 as a really funny character, but now he is a much deeper character. Deep characters make awesome characters.
-
I guess I just see a coward no matter how deep I look, most likely because I can't relate. I don't lie, manipulate or pretend to be someone I'm not around my friends, especially if our relationship was based upon trust like Kelsier's.
-
Buckle in everyone, here it comes!
-
Czanos, I liked most of your changes for the crew, good job! And Darxbane, I forgot Darxbane, GAH! How can I live with myself! Well, If I'm Zane, Darxbane can be Vin, so he can kill me. Or Marsh, so he can also stare daggers (or spikes) at me. In actuality, I kind of see Darx as a kelsier type figure.
We'll have to post a final list once we get things figured out.
I also noticed I missed Wielder, sorry bout that! I still haven't come up with a character for you though, just wait.
I like Miyabi as Ham, Breeze didn't quite fit.
Oh, and I'm glad Brandon showed Breeze reacting the way he did, it made the book more real. Keep in mind, Breeze has very little experience with violence and battle. How many of you could have fared better in his situation. I don't think he's a coward at all, based on what he's seen I think he reacted far better than expected.
Maybe Czanos should be Breeze since he knows all you guys so well, I thought that really fit.
And Sarah, all those qualities were definately what I had in mind making you Twindyl. I'm just not as verbose as you are.
ONE DAY ONE DAY ONE DAY ONE DAY (will nothing Quiet this voice in my head?)
-
I guess I just see a coward no matter how deep I look, most likely because I can't relate. I don't lie, manipulate or pretend to be someone I'm not around my friends, especially if our relationship was based upon trust like Kelsier's.
Ah. Well, that would be the difference between you and I. I definitely see someone acting like Breeze, because I see it a lot. Sometimes I am that way (but not on here, of course), so the character resonates with me.
-
Oh come on, I was a late addition as Breeze. Breeze! Besides, since female characters are at a premium, it's less about who you are and more about who you are not.
Hey, Elend does respect you! That counts. That counts big time.
Excellent points. I would definitely prefer Tindwyl over Vin, Vin's mom or sister, any of Straff's mistresses, any of those party girls in the first book, the skaa who almost gets raped at the beginning, or Ham's wife - and those are all the women I can think of. It's a good thing there aren't many regular female posters, because we'd have a hard time all getting characters!
Vegas, if it makes you feel better, I don't think you're Breeze. Didn't you say you were Captain Demoux, because of that playground incident? Or maybe you're Kelsier, smiling and joking and making people laugh however grave the situation. Or perhaps Dockson, the force of reason and practicality amidst insanity and wild ideas.
-
Yeah, I don't really see him as Breeze either. Dockson maybe, but on other lists that one went to Andrew, so I don't know.
-
Vegas, if it makes you feel better, I don't think you're Breeze. Didn't you say you were Captain Demoux, because of that playground incident? Or maybe you're Kelsier, smiling and joking and making people laugh however grave the situation. Or perhaps Dockson, the force of reason and practicality amidst insanity and wild ideas.
I would say I had Kelsier, Dockson and Demoux in me but I'd probably get banned, so instead I will go with being Demoux. He is by far the bravest and most unshakeable person in the books, rivaled only by Kelsier who was most likely chemically imbalanced.
-
Okay, so VegasDev is Micah Demoux, I'm Breeze, Comatose is Zane, and SarahG is Tindwyl for positive reasons.
Also, there isn't really a thread for it, but about where Kelsier found the Eleventh Metal prophecies . . .
In Mistborn:The Final Empire Kelsier originally says he found the prophecies in a town in the Farmost Dominance, the Far Peninsula, in a town where they still remembered the name of their old kingdom. (Khlennium, perhaps?) So Chaos, if your allomantic hobo theory is true, he lives in the Farmost Dominance.
-
Well, Czanos, 11th metal theories are here: http://www.timewastersguide.com/forum/index.php?topic=6122.0
That's where my Allomancer Hobo theory started, just because I didn't believe in any extra conspiracy with that.
-
So they are. I can't believe I forgot about that thread.
I blame it on the looming release of Hero of Ages.
-
Really, there should be an index topic for every theory topic in existence. It would make things so much easier, because important subjects often get pushed back from the front page.
-
Maybe we'll make one for Way of Kings.
As for now, it's kind of pointless.
-
Well, people could say that of my massive theory post, but who's laughing now! Muwhahaahaha!
...
-
Wow really guys? You are complaining about being Breeze and Tyndwyl who are after all fairly cool characters (ok a bit of a stretch but bear with me, Breeze has that whole nobleman thing going on) while I get stuck with TenSoon/Oreseur. Wow, a giant mass of muscle that flops around.
At least I can pretend to be Kelsier...
-
I just gave you that one Reaves as a joke, really. Because you're about to lost that bet and have to change your profile picture.
-
I will stand firm. Nothing can shake my belief.
Although my belief is bolstered by the fact that yes, all evidence points to Rashek...but Ookla says we won't know until approximately the FOURTH annotation epigraph :P. :D ;) :D
(And I can only hope I am not setting myself up for a massive fall here...)
-
No, the fourth epigraph. Annotations are the things Brandon posts on his website. Totally different :P
It's important to get your terms correct. Like, the difference between "Hemalurgy", "Hemalurgical", and "Hemalurgify", and heck, "Hemalurgification". Each means something different! It's like a puzzle!
EDIT: :D
The book has shipped :D.
-
lol wow ok I don't know where that came from. For some reason the thought in my head didn't make it to the keyboard...thx for the catch.
-
Oh, that's clever, using a strike-through in your previous post. You know what I have to say to that? Hero of Ages just shipped for me.
/me wins.
-
Oh, that's clever, using a strike-through in your previous post. You know what I have to say to that? Hero of Ages just shipped for me.
/me wins.
Wait but...I thought you were the Hero of Ages...so...that means either you aren't, or the book didn't ship!!
Ok that made no sense whatsoever.
And yes I thought the strike-through was clever as well. Simply deleting "annotation" confuses any other readers, not to mention makes it look like I'm trying to hard. :P
-
Oh, that's clever, using a strike-through in your previous post. You know what I have to say to that? Hero of Ages just shipped for me.
[/s]
teh heh heh...
-
I haven't gotten the book yet, so hey, that just means I get to comment on the final annotation before I read the final tome :D. So ha.
The mists enter the room here, which is--again--intentional. A lot of these things have to do with the deeper worldbuidling we won't get into until book three. However, suffice it to say that they were forced to enter by something.
Well, there you have it. Ruin is acting through the mists--Ruin is controlling the Deepness to go in. Now I'm strongly convinced of that fact.
Vin learning to control the kandra is also something that had to be twisted together so that it could be used here. I wanted this knowledge to be there for use later in the book, and for the next book, so I figured this was a good place to begin introducing it as a major aspect of the magic system.
"Major aspect of the magic system". Hmmm, according to my massive theory post, I infer that it is Hemalurgy, but there could be something else going on here.
Anyways, I guess I will know the answers tomorrow, so I'm pretty sure this will be my last post until I finish the book. I'll see you on the other side of the river!
-
It could have been Preservation. I'm just saying...
-
See you after the book Chaos!
Geez, I feel like a loner. Who else isn't getting the book until 5:30 or so tomorrow?
Oh, and . . .
T-17:00:00 Until release party!
-
I got the book yesterday after work! Got home read the first couple sentences and had to set the book down and laugh... got back to reading and the next thing I know it's 3:30am, and I need to be at work at 7:00am. Two and a half hours of sleep makes for a long day.
But still... I can't wait until lunch, just hope I don't 'just one more chapter' myself into a three hour lunch.
-
sorry, spoilers in a non-spoiler thread--but I saved what you wrote, and put it in the spoiler thread for you. :)
--Brenna
-
Thanks again!
-
Wow Coma not everyone has read this great book yet. Give us a break. Im kidding but wow Brenna's on top of it quick. Well done.
-
Haven't gotten to it yet, GreenMonsta?
-
For shame I havnt, Im sure its waiting at my house but Ive been away in Nation Guard training for the past week and a half. Ive only been on this site a couple of times and I dont get home for another couple of days. Oh trust me im not happy about the situation but there is nothing I can do but wait. So the couple of times Ive been here on TWG since I left all I want is to go to the spoilers threads but alas I cant. "AAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRGGHHHHH"