Timewaster's Guide Archive
Departments => Books => Topic started by: Spriggan on September 03, 2008, 05:49:43 PM
-
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080903/lf_nm_life/books_meyer_dc;_ylt=AjyMbNf3Jiocbx6wvGY.v86s0NUE
All I can say is I'd hate to be the person that leaked the copy, being torn to peaces by hordes of women can be a mans dream being torn apart by crazy fan girls that are mad at you isn't a pleasant thought.
-
Although I didn't like the way she used colloquial English as her writing style, I am still very saddened by this. It is sad when people take something that belongs to someone else and freely gives it away, ESPECIALLY when you were a trusted individual. Whoever did this deserves to be severely punished.
-
For the amount of excitement that floats around about her books, I think that she should have just picked up the pieces and continued writing. It'd be a good gauge for how people actually receive her books. Stuff like this is going to happen. Yeah, it'd be frustrating, but the article pretty much says that she knows where the leak originated. So, cut them out of future editing processes. Now granted, I'm looking at this from a completely removed perspective. But for me: get mad, show your teeth, and keep on going. To me, this feels more like a tantrum. But maybe I'm being too harsh.
-
I just find it odd that she's "too sad" to keep writing. I don't really understand that.
-
My wife is not happy about this turn of events. I think it is sad, but I'll survive :)
I think there is more to the story than the press has found out and I don't think that we'll ever be privy to it. :)
-
I agree with you Dan, it does seem like she's just throwing a fit and saying, "I don't wanna," but there is probably something we don't know about the situation. But in either case I think it would be best to finish writing. My thought: If you let them get to you. . . what have you accomplished?
-
I have to say that as an outside observer, I've found the events surrounding the release of Breaking Dawn the "Sparkledammerung", the leak and all subsequent reactions to it to be rather entertaining.
Not so much for the events themselves but the wondeful coverage of them by various sites (okay, mainly fandom_wank, and also ONTD), to be hilarious, though that's more because of the reactions of people peripheral to the whole events, like the occasional crazy fans, and RPatz. The fact that the main actor so obviously in all interviews, struggles to find words not to insult the book with... is just hilarious.
I mean, I'd like to say that I sympathise for the author... but I kind of fail to find redeeming qualities in her work. Also, it was originally only a three book, and then she re-negotiated to 5 books, and the 4th was largely hated and the 5th is basically recap, so really it's not a great loss at all if she quits the series, but personally I think she will finish it, and that this is just huge *flounce* on her part.
I guess the highlight of the whole Sparkledammerung for me though was her brother who runs her website (fansite?) replying to a letter from a number of fans about their criticisms and whatnot about Breaking Dawn, to which her brother replies [only very partial quote] "...You say that you are not looking to hurt her, but it would be ignorant to believe that criticism of any kind does not hurt the person to whom it is directed."
It's just... boggling to my mind how this author is such a special snowflake that she needs to be shielded from any and all criticism (and this was before the leak even happened) and totally fails to really be responsible for her writing and actually recognise that this is not just a fun hobby, people are actually *paying* her to read her work.
Oh, and the quote from SMeyer herseld; "When I write the story, it's not like I'm thinking about what I'm doing..."
*facepalm*.
I anyone's interested in reading the full text of what I've quoted, you can read the fandom_wank post here: http://www.journalfen.net/community/fandom_wank/1173559.html
-
Twilight....What's there to say? Oh, I know. I hate it. With a passion. And it makes me laugh that Midnight Sun has been put on hold "indefinitely," especially after the epic fail that was Breaking Dawn.....I read half of that book when it leaked. I saw it being posted on imdb, so I got the link and downloaded it....What a joke of a book. Can't believe crap like that actually got published, and that people are seriously comparing her to JKR.
To be completely fair, though. I was looking forward to Midnight Sun. Smeyer failed with Twilight, but I was willing to give her one last chance. If she failed with MS, I would never read anything by her again.....And now I won't. Not only did she pretty much throw a tantrum when the draft was leaked (so what? Same thing happened with HP and JKR didn't whine like a baby), but then she said that she's not emotionally capable to write it right now.
I'm only an aspiring author, and even I know that the best way to write a book is with an outline. She has an outline. Her outline is a whole freaking published book! All she has to do is change the perspective. Really, how hard can that be? Especially with THIS story....Fail. Twilight is a perfect indication of just how sad the literary world is now...Good thing not all authors are like Smeyer in maturity and writing skill, because then we'd really be messed up.
-
Dave is pretty sure that Stephenie was in the writing class he taught, probably the same semester Brandon and I were in the class. He said she was one of those people who never spoke up in class and who he never thought would write anything again.
I don't remember her at all, but I'm bad at remembering people, especially ones who never say anything.
-
I know this is cruel, but the world would be a better place if she HADN'T written anything again.....
-
Dave is pretty sure that Stephenie was in the writing class he taught, probably the same semester Brandon and I were in the class. He said she was one of those people who never spoke up in class and who he never thought would write anything again.
I don't remember her at all, but I'm bad at remembering people, especially ones who never say anything.
Huh, odd. I was in that class too and I don't remember her at all either.
I tend to forget names 10 seconds after I'm told them but I rarely forget faces so she must have rarely participated.
-
I know this is cruel, but the world would be a better place if she HADN'T written anything again.....
I don't know. I mean, the Twilight series had a lot of potental with the first book. It's simply that the rest of them went down hill from there. And I think the host was pretty good. I mean, I'm at least willing to admit that I've read and enjoyed it.
And I find it funny that you guys were possably in a class with her. I personally don't like her becauses of what I've been told she's done to her extended family. She's let the fame get to her head too much.
-
Dave taught the class a few times and she may have been in one of the other times. He wasn't sure.
I'm just repeating an unsubstantiated rumor—all Dave remembered for sure is that there was a Stephenie with an "e" in the middle of her name who was in his class, possibly the same time as us, who didn't say much, and the pictures of Stephenie Meyer he saw much later looked like the girl in his class.
Personally, I have not read the books at all.
-
And I find it funny that you guys were possably in a class with her.
I think it's funny, too. And that they don't remember her. Shows just how memorable she was.
I personally think the premise of the book had a lot of potential. But the execution left a lot to be desired. Not in the reading--she's actually a good story-teller, but a horrible writer. Her books, using a description I got from a brilliantly-written Twilight review, is "somewhat reminiscent of a cheap, drugstore romance novel written by an inexperienced, romance-starved teenage girl."
For kicks and giggles, here's something else in the same review that makes me laugh every time:
Every single conversation in the book can be summed up like this:
Edward: Bella, I love you!
Bella: [blushes] Despite the fact that you're creepy and watch me while I sleep, which normally would upset any girl who possesses a functioning brain, I love you too!
Edward: [said broodingly, with an air of mystery] …However, our love can never be! I'm far too dangerous!
PLENTY OF FILLER, LATER
Edward: Bella, I love you even though all logic and reasoning tells me to act otherwise!
Bella: [says something witty] You are so gorgeous! Let cruel fate never tear us apart!
Edward: Well, it's been real and all, but you should probably blow this popsicle stand. I'm dangerous!
And I've never read The Host. I've heard it's better than Twilight, but I just have no desire to read it, not after her behavior with MS. She's a 30-some-odd year old woman who's acting like an 11-year-old brat. That's not cool.
-
The Host is MUCH better than ANY of the Twilight books. I really quite enjoyed it.
The Twilight books are fun, but not groundbreaking. The Host actually shows that the woman can write.
-
The Host is MUCH better than ANY of the Twilight books. I really quite enjoyed it.
I can agree with that. I read the Twilight books and found them to be good for what they are. Then I read The Host and found it to be a better story and better writing . I am thinking her work will get better with time.
-
I don't know about that. I mean, she wrote Breaking Dawn after TH, and I think that BD was her worst book yet.
-
I don't know about that. I mean, she wrote Breaking Dawn after TH, and I think that BD was her worst book yet.
True, but I think that had a lot to do with her pandering far too much to her fans and the fact that she was stuck with the world she created in the first 3. I'm actually pretty sure she had no idea how to end it until she was half way through writing the book. (at least that is my opinion) I'm not sure she ever intended Bella to turn vampire or not. Everything after the Birth was limpid and lacking conflict, as if she just ran out of steam and just tried to meander about until she could end it.
-
I actually don't think she was pandering to her fans in BD. I'm pretty darn sure that I've heard her say that she wrote BD for herself.....Which explains how lame it is. All fairy-tale like. So much build up for the turn into a vampire, and then when it finally happens, no consequences. Really? Lame. And then the fight? And Bella's lame power? Again, really? I know for a fact that I've read fanfiction better than BD. In fact, some of the "better fanfiction" has been Twilight fanfiction. Her fans can write better than she can. That's sad.
-
Ouch.
(BTW, your sig is copyright infringement! And plagiarism! Ahhhh! Okay, I don't really care. But you should at least put quote marks up.)
-
Copyright infringement? How is it copyright infringement? You never copyrighted it! If anything, it's a way to flatter you, even if the attribution isn't given...The attribution doesn't really NEED to be given, because the only people who really understand what it is, know who said it...And fine, I'll put the quote marks up.
And I like the "ouch" part. I just read back through my post and is kind of "ouch"-like....But it's all true. Her fans can write better than her. Well. Some of them. And they have stories with a lot more plot (although it's really not hard to get more plot than a book like Twilight....or even New Moon...the plot doesn't even start until 2/3 the way into the book..(slight exaggeration, but a small one at that)).
-
In the US, everything written is instantly copywrited by the writer, technically.
-
Really?.....Heh. That's cool.
-
I'm not happy ether on how this turned out. My friend was able to read the first 11 chapters but I'm stuck on only the 1 so she's trying to catch me up. I do feel bad for the person who did all this but I don't at the same time because they ruined the entire book for us because it may not be coming out.
Bastille
-
I'm sure no matter what she puts out as the next book it'll be a bestseller…if only 'cause she wrote it and it's a Twilight book.
-
Very true and because it has Edward in it. All my friends are like obsesst over him, one even has one of those life size cut outs of him. I have to admit that I would want one of those to but I still think that's going a little over board with the whole Edward Cullen thing.
Bastille
-
Yeah that's half the reason every teenage girl in the whole freakin' country sees those movies/reads the books.…(hyperbole)
-
Yeah, you better hyberbole that....my sisters are teens. And so are their friends. And they and most of their friends really don't like the books.
I still think that's going a little over board with the whole Edward Cullen thing.
Heh. Ya think? He's a stalker-boy. He's creepy. Sure, he's good-looking, but looks definitely aren't everything, and with him that statement is painfully apparent. It bugs me to no end when I'm messing around on Facebook (on the app Pieces of Flair) and I see stuff saying crap like: Edward Cullen, raising the bar for boyfriends since 2007...or whatever the date is. Ugh. If Edward Cullen is how boyfriends should act now, we're heading back to the 1800's in terms of feminism.
-
Yeah, you better hyberbole that....my sisters are teens. And so are their friends. And they and most of their friends really don't like the books.
I still think that's going a little over board with the whole Edward Cullen thing.
Heh. Ya think? He's a stalker-boy. He's creepy. Sure, he's good-looking, but looks definitely aren't everything, and with him that statement is painfully apparent. It bugs me to no end when I'm messing around on Facebook (on the app Pieces of Flair) and I see stuff saying crap like: Edward Cullen, raising the bar for boyfriends since 2007...or whatever the date is. Ugh. If Edward Cullen is how boyfriends should act now, we're heading back to the 1800's in terms of feminism.
Lol!! I've never heard ANYONE say that before about Twilight. All the boy friends at our school have been replaced by Edward Cullen and it's not really likely that you will ever meet him so I don't really get the point of all these girls going gaa gaa over him. But I still like the books and I still really like Edward just not to the extreme.
Bastille
-
All the boy friends at our school have been replaced by Edward Cullen
Ah, but you see, it's THIS that backs me up. All the boy friends have been replaced because none of them are as "good" as Edward. So until someone comes along who IS as "good" as Edward.....well. I think you know where I'm going with this.
-
An end to human life as we know it.
-
All the boy friends at our school have been replaced by Edward Cullen
Ah, but you see, it's THIS that backs me up. All the boy friends have been replaced because none of them are as "good" as Edward. So until someone comes along who IS as "good" as Edward.....well. I think you know where I'm going with this.
Yeah I see where your going and nobody is as "good" as Edward. Such a person just doesn't exist, it's all just make up, acting, computer animation and ink.
Bastille
-
An end to human life as we know it.
:D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D. That's all I can say!!
Bastille
-
Hehe thanks. But it's kind of true. #1–it would show that all culture and sophistication has truly been abandoned, #2–it would mean that all realistic goals and futures have been replaced by some pretty-faced actor, and #3–well, since all relationships would break up, all reproduction would stop and the human race would die out. Sounds like a plan to me!!! 8)
Haha do you know what what I just wrote was? The summary of Armageddon: The Tale of Edward CullenLOL!!!!!!
-
Haha do you know what what I just wrote was? The summary of Armageddon: The Tale of Edward CullenLOL!!!!!!
Your right!! :D Nice!! I just found this really funny pic of Edward because you got me thinking of him and I found this and I thought it was funny.
http://p-userpic.livejournal.com/73092938/14978616
There's the link!!
Bastille
-
HAHA that's really funny!!!
-
I think Stephen King said it best:
“Both Rowling and Meyer, they’re speaking directly to young people… The real difference is that Jo Rowling is a terrific writer and Stephenie Meyer can’t write worth a darn. She’s not very good.”
heh. i think he gives Rowling a bit too much credit, but that quote makes me feel all warm inside.
-
Ah! I love what he said! It makes me warm and fuzzy inside....
Here's the link to the official article:
http://blogs.usaweekend.com/whos_news/2009/02/exclusive-steph.html
-
And they write very different types of books.
-
Who? Stephen and Stephenie? Or Stephenie and JKR? The first, I would agree with. The second, not so much. JKR and Meyer both write fantasy. And just because King doesn't write fantasy, doesn't mean he doesn't read it. He has just as much right to express his opinion about Meyer as anyone else, and I'm actually ecstatic that he did. There's a ton of people (quite a few who are celebrities) who are gaga over Twilight. It's about time some intelligent celebrities stepped forward and said it's really not that great. It's even better that it comes from a fellow author...Makes me laugh.
-
And just because King doesn't write fantasy, doesn't mean he doesn't read it.
I remember hearing his Dark Tower series touted as being Fantasy. Well, it was epic...
-
I just read The Host. And it is way, way better than Twilight. The writing in Twilight ... ah, the kindest thing I could say about it is that it really needed a good editor.
I don't blame Stephenie herself as much as I blame her publisher and, by extension, her editor. They saw the potential in her writing, they pushed the book out the door, and they didn't take the time to help her polish it and make it good. Her publisher is making bank. But she's stuck with a book that is not as well-written as the concept deserves.
The Host, on the other hand, has obvious signs that it's been well-edited. It's better structured. The romantic tension is better. Someone has taken a red pen to many (not as many as needed. But still many.) of the adverbs. There's better-developed conflict and growth.
So, yeah, I guess the author is ultimately the one responsible for the book. But. As an editor (I edit essays, not novels, but some principles are the same), I think she got a bad rap. She needs someone who will help her writing shine, not someone who tries to push the books out the door so quickly that they don't receive the attention they need.
And I think it was stinky of Stephen King to attack her. When was the last time he spent weeks at a time on bestseller lists? Professional jealousy, hmm?
-
Oh, I don't really blame her for the quality of the books that were published. I blame her for her actions. Like with what happened with Breaking Dawn when it was released on the internet before it came out. Immature much? JKR didn't react NEARLY that bad....Even worse was what happened with Midnight Sun. It's MS that makes me truly hate her....well. That and the fact that she even came up with the joke of a book that is Twilight....
Tell me, where is the sense in what she did with Midnight Sun? She's a like a 5 year old who didn't get her way and is now taking it out on her fans. And her statement about how she's not "emotionally capable" to write the book (those were her words...). I understand how emotions play into writing. But they don't affect it so much that you can't even write your book....at least not when you have an outline and you know EXACTLY where the book is going, and you truly love writing enough to put the time needed into it. Her outline for MS was Twilight. You don't get much better than a published work for an outline. And yet, she's like "If I were to write it with how I am now, James would win and all the Cullens would die."...Pathetic. She doesn't deserve my money. She doesn't deserve my time. Hence why I refuse to read any more of her books, even if I've heard good things about them--like with The Host.
-
I suspect she's having a hard time processing her money and fame and all that. Have you read Shannon Hale's discussion of it on her blog? http://oinks.squeetus.com/2008/09/how-to-be-a-rea/comments/page/2/ Scroll down to where Shannon comments about it. She and Stephenie Meyer are buddies. This is what she says:
Dawn--you're not the only one who feels as if Stephenie is punishing all her fans for what a few unscrupulous people did. However, I think that's absolutely not the case. It's not that she WON'T finish Midnight Sun, it's that she CAN'T finish it. I would feel absolutely the same way. It's not about money (the book would sell regardless), it's not about punishing anyone. It's that her unfinished book was ripped away from her and she's lost all those feelings about it that she needed in order to keep writing. What happened to her was a horrible violation. Every professional writer I've talked to about it has completely understood why she doesn't feel like she can finish it right now.
That's where she's coming from. I don't think it's unreasonable to give her some space. She may finish it, she may not. But the poor woman has been through so much; it's very hard to get rich and famous quickly. Stressful, demanding, and it brings many people down. ("Adulation is poison," said President Hinckley). Give her a few years to grow into it; she never expected this kind of success. Mercy is a good thing; authors are people too.
-
HAHA that's really funny!!!
Thanks!! I was just browsing the internet and found that, printed it and glued it in the back of my notebook. It's really the only Twilight pic I like because all the others of Edward are all like how sexy he is and that's just a little crazy.
Bastille
-
And I think it was stinky of Stephen King to attack her. When was the last time he spent weeks at a time on bestseller lists? Professional jealousy, hmm?
I dont quite think jealousy has anything to do with it. He just thinks her writing is terribad. Considering every book King writes is a bestseller, and considering the $$ he makes from books and movie rights, I'd say he does just fine. In addition, any time Stephen King cover-quotes anyone, that book sells extremely well - just ask Naomi Novik. So yeah, jealousy has nothing to do with it...his books spend quite a bit of time on bestseller lists.
-
I suspect she's having a hard time processing her money and fame and all that. Have you read Shannon Hale's discussion of it on her blog? http://oinks.squeetus.com/2008/09/how-to-be-a-rea/comments/page/2/ Scroll down to where Shannon comments about it. She and Stephenie Meyer are buddies. This is what she says: Dawn--you're not the only one who feels as if Stephenie is punishing all her fans for what a few unscrupulous people did. However, I think that's absolutely not the case. It's not that she WON'T finish Midnight Sun, it's that she CAN'T finish it. I would feel absolutely the same way. It's not about money (the book would sell regardless), it's not about punishing anyone. It's that her unfinished book was ripped away from her and she's lost all those feelings about it that she needed in order to keep writing. What happened to her was a horrible violation. Every professional writer I've talked to about it has completely understood why she doesn't feel like she can finish it right now.
That's where she's coming from. I don't think it's unreasonable to give her some space. She may finish it, she may not. But the poor woman has been through so much; it's very hard to get rich and famous quickly. Stressful, demanding, and it brings many people down. ("Adulation is poison," said President Hinckley). Give her a few years to grow into it; she never expected this kind of success. Mercy is a good thing; authors are people too.
Awww, poor her. She's rich and famous, she has hundreds of thousands of adulating fans, she has a movie of her book, how terrible. My heart bleeds.
-
It is one thing to be angry about part of the book getting leaked out, but totally throwing a fit and deciding to not write it is just childish. I don't care who you are.
-
Bookstore guy, I'm sure you know more about publishing and best sellers than I do. But the best-seller list I follow has never been dominated by Stephen King the way it's currently dominated by Stephenie Meyer, at least not in my memory. I'm just saying. :)
Reaves, that's one of the hardest parts about being suddenly rich and famous. Few people acknowledge that those things have their own set of very real problems, and since not many people are in the same boat, it's hard to find help to get through it. Turn your nose up at her problems if you want to, I guess. But if it were me, I would want people to cut me some slack.
Miyabi, yeah, it's a little childish. But who among us isn't childish sometimes? She just has the misfortune to have her childishness discussed and debated by thousands of people. The rest of us have the luxury of private pettiness.
-
I understand what you're saying Emmaleem. In some ways, I agree with you. I understand that it could be difficult to deal with sudden fame, but I think if she was actually good it wouldn't be so hard....I think it makes it worse for her when she's got the hate-fest....But I personally think her books (at least, the Twilight "Saga") deserve the hate-fest. And that may sound cruel, but oh well. Those books are terrible. Writing, plot, character development. Everything. They're a joke to literature. It pains me to even call them literature because they suck so bad.
-
Just one word: Professionalism.
-
Yes, that's true--if she were a really good writer, the sudden fame wouldn't be so hard.
But. I gotta point to the editing on this again. The Host had reasonable editing. It's not great literature, but it's not painful to read. I don't cringe at it.
The Twilight Saga's editors could have and should have taken the time to help the books turn out in a polished way. For all the money they made off her writing, they could have taken the time to fix the books. And they didn't. That's a major breach of professionalism too.
-
Oh, I know, and I don't cut the editors out of the blame, but when I'm reading, I visualize the story unfolding. So I focus more on plot and character development than the writing itself. This is probably why I didn't notice the horrible "thesaurus" word-usage that a lot of people say is in the book--stuff that just didn't flow. When reading, I got what she meant, and continued on without really thinking about the words. But there wasn't a plot until almost 2/3 the way through the book. And the character development is practically non-existent.
The editors could've said, "Hey, put some more plot in here," but I think SM should've known that books are plot-based and she should've cut out a good portion of the "Edward's body is so gorgeous and he smells so nice....Oh, and he SPARKLES!!! How pretty," crap and expanded the plot and the suspense. Because when I got to that part in the book, it was good. I liked it. But there wasn't enough of it.
I'd be willing to forget about it, and pass it off as being the problems of a debut novel, except that she did the EXACT same thing with New Moon....Again, the plot doesn't start until 2/3 the way through the book...And as good of a plot as it is, the idea of it is rather pathetic. So we've got two characters who have been established as independent people. And then they fall so deeply in love (which more resembles lust than it does love) that both of them have suicidal attempts? And both of these suicidal attempts are after they've practically died from the loss of the other? What? Where is the sense in that? Where is the literary value of that?
-
little_wilson, when I say editing, I do mean adverbs and all that. But I also mean story development as well--the stuff you're referring to. The editors chose not to help her develop it well.
But, having said that, millions of readers beg to differ. What bothers me about Twilight the most is the way that so many women have fallen in love with something that's so easily criticized. If it weren't so popular, I wouldn't be nearly as bugged. I don't pick up random romance novels in grocery stores and critique their bad plotting, poor character development, and abundant adverbs.
I think there's more going on in Twilight than I have given it credit for; there has to be, because it resonates with so many people. Part of me resents that, I guess, but that's a too-easy dismissal of the phenomenon.
-
Yeah. I wouldn't care nearly as much about critiquing if it wasn't as popular as it is. The way I see it, it doesn't deserve the hype, but there are books out there (like EUOL's stuff) that do deserve the hype, and that live up to the hype, and yet....they don't get it.
I'm thinking Twilight is so big, because the story is so simple. It takes no thought to understand it. There's not even any ending that makes you go "Wow, that was deep," and then makes you think about it for hours on end. Or days. Or even weeks (like what happened with me with HoA). There is absolutely no thought involved. Hence why we've got people who never read picking up those books. They don't want to think about what they read. They just want to get the reading done and over with....But I like reading stuff that entertains me AND gives me something to think about....Twilight just didn't cut it.
-
It is one thing to be angry about part of the book getting leaked out, but totally throwing a fit and deciding to not write it is just childish. I don't care who you are.
I agree. It's not OUR fault that the author was stupid enough to ever let it be able to get leaked out.
Bastille
-
I don't think that's a fair comment to make. I dislike her, but I wouldn't say she's stupid for letting her novel get leaked. From what I've heard, the person who leaked it wasn't exactly responsible for getting it leaked either, but....it's their fault more than it is SM's.
Sure, she trusted the person, but that's nothing new. A lot of authors send their books and chapters and writing in general to others to get feedback. There's always the chance that it'll get leaked (although that would hardly matter if you're unpublished, nor would anyone care about it). It's a risk, but in this instance, the blame isn't on her. If you say she's stupid for that, then you're saying that a lot of other authors are stupid too. Like EUOL.
-
I don't think that's a fair comment to make. I dislike her, but I wouldn't say she's stupid for letting her novel get leaked. From what I've heard, the person who leaked it wasn't exactly responsible for getting it leaked either, but....it's their fault more than it is SM's.
Sure, she trusted the person, but that's nothing new. A lot of authors send their books and chapters and writing in general to others to get feedback. There's always the chance that it'll get leaked (although that would hardly matter if you're unpublished, nor would anyone care about it). It's a risk, but in this instance, the blame isn't on her. If you say she's stupid for that, then you're saying that a lot of other authors are stupid too. Like EUOL.
Sorry. Maybe I took that on a little (or allot) to harshly. I still think that it's unfair that she took the book away from all of us who didn't do anything.
Bastille
-
Oh, it's definitely unfair, but I refer to the whole situation as immature of her. She's 35, and she's acting like spoiled 5 year old. It's pathetic.
From what I've read--particularly in Shannon Hale's blog--I can see why she's put MS on hold. She's lost interest in it. Since that's the case, I don't blame her for not writing it right now. I do blame her for it getting to that point. She could've played with the leak, and made it a good thing. She could've looked at it as a teaser for her book, and if people didn't like it and thought the writing was bad, she could've put the first couple of chapters up on her site--the better versions--to show how improved it was....But she didn't. She threw a tantrum and did nothing to make the situation better. And now she's lost interest in it.....All because she was too blind and immature.
-
Oh, it's definitely unfair, but I refer to the whole situation as immature of her. She's 35, and she's acting like spoiled 5 year old. It's pathetic.
Your right about her being unfair. I mean she can't just make a book about the "new biggest thing" and then not publish it because she's being immature.
Bastille
-
I think the point Shannon Hale makes elsewhere in her blog (I am too lazy to look it up) is a good one: more readers are a good thing. So if more people start reading because of Twilight, then there are a greater number of people who might pick up Elantris one day and fall in love with it. Twilight is a gateway book to other ones.
It's not a finite pool of resources. Fans of EOUL don't need to be jealous on his behalf; he's doing fine and dandy. Now there are millions more people introduced to speculative fiction. More readers is a good thing.
-
Ideally, that would be great, but...not all Twilighters will go on to read other things. Especially if they have the same problems as these people:
http://twilightmomsforums.freeforums.org/reading-other-books-t5455.html
-
I agree with the general concept as I really don't see authors as competitors. I know from my own personal experience that if I read and like one book in a certain genre or style, I am more likely to read another one, but at the same time I really don't see it as jealously to say that Meyer's is an immature writer that could use some coaching in plot, style, character development, theme or anything else. It's just an opinion. An opinion that people are bound to disagree on because different styles/themes attract different people, but hey, that's their prerogative.
In the same token, I think it would be a stretch to say readers of Twilight would eventually be drawn to books like Elantris because their styles are vastly different. Some of them, maybe, but I am guessing the majority will stick with easy-read romance or nothing at all.
-
I don't understand how people can be so in love with her books? I mean, the story was OK(ish), but she is a horrible writer.
-
I don't understand how people can be so in love with her books? I mean, the story was OK(ish), but she is a horrible writer.
I agree. My friends asked me to read the books so I did but I read them and they asked "what do you think?" and I said there where okay books and there like "they were okay?!"
I mean I thought the last book was little to personal. I read in a magazine that it was a best selling child book and I'm like that is not a child book. I don't see how people are so obsessive about a fictional character that's not even real. It's crazy.
Bastille
-
I think that it is because she writes so immaturely that so many junior high and high school age kids enjoy it. They can read it without having to think about it. That could be what makes it a "child's book".
It is sad that people can be so obsessed with a fictional character. Some of the people I know I'd swear thought Edward was real. I'm like. . . uhm, yeah, grow up. All in all I think it's BECAUSE it's written so poorly that it became so popular. . . which sounds contradictory within itself, but also makes sense, I think. Maybe. yes. xD
-
I think that it is because she writes so immaturely that so many junior high and high school age kids enjoy it. They can read it without having to think about it. That could be what makes it a "child's book".
It is sad that people can be so obsessed with a fictional character. Some of the people I know I'd swear thought Edward was real. I'm like. . . uhm, yeah, grow up. All in all I think it's BECAUSE it's written so poorly that it became so popular. . . which sounds contradictory within itself, but also makes sense, I think. Maybe. yes. xD
I think your right on how it's a child book like how it's written so immaturely. The author's writing expresses allot about who the author is, or something like that. Some people are going gah gah over Edward and it's not funny anymore. It's just stupid. He's fictional, F-I-C-T-I-O-N-A-L!!!!!! Not real, he'll never exist.
Bastille
-
I agree, Miyabi. It's because people don't have to think when they read it. And this is another reason I think a lot of Twilighters who don't normally read won't go on to read other things. Most books require at least a little bit of thought. Is Twilight one of those? No. That's a big, resounding no.
What gets me is that all these girls are so obsessed with Edward, wishing that he was real, and yet what is Edward? Not only is he fictional, he's a stalker. He goes into Bella's room at night, to watch her sleep. And she has no idea about it. That's just flipping creepy. And what's her reaction to it? "Oh, how romantic." He gives her show-and-tell about his vampire-powers, and does she run? No. She's an idiot. I can't understand why any author would want their MC to be so stupid and yet SM apparently did. And so many girls fantasize being her....Why anyone would want to be that dumb is beyond me.
-
I think part of it is that for many if not most of the people reading Twilight, if they read anything else at all, read almost exclusively romance. In some of the comments from the thread linked above you can see they are like, "It will be another century until someone comes up with a man as perfect as Edward!! OMG!!" All they really care about is a flawless male who will love them no matter what. Does Edward actually have any flaws? I haven't read anything but the smallest excerpts of the books but to me it seems like Edward only has two flaws:
A.) He is a complete toolbag for Bella (includes the stalkerishness referred to above)
B.) He's undead. But then, when you sparkle, whats the big deal?
-
i actually enjoyed the books, and can i just say i'd never read a romance book in my entire life lol. But saying that i did go through all 4 books in 3 days because they were so simple and didnt really require the slightest bit of intelligent thought. It was kinda like watching a ditzy chick flick because you're too distracted or tired to get ur brain to function properly. Something to take the edge off the boredom without requiring the use of too many brain cells
Oh and i hated edward, hes an idiot. Although i have to admit i hated bella slightly more than him.
-
i actually enjoyed the books, and can i just say i'd never read a romance book in my entire life lol. But saying that i did go through all 4 books in 3 days because they were so simple and didnt really require the slightest bit of intelligent thought. It was kinda like watching a ditzy chick flick because you're too distracted or tired to get ur brain to function properly. Something to take the edge off the boredom without requiring the use of too many brain cells
Oh and i hated edward, hes an idiot. Although i have to admit i hated bella slightly more than him.
That's what I did. I read each of the books in a day and didn't even think about what I'm reading. It was just creepy how he stalks Bella because she smells good??? It's just so weird how girls are addicted to a stalker so yes, I'm agreeing with all of you. I think the main reason everyone's a little more obsessed is how "cute" the actor (Rob) is and personally I think he is kinda cute but not enough to deserve the attention that he's getting.
Bastille
-
he'll always be cedric diggory to me :D
-
he'll always be cedric diggory to me :D
Me too. I can't see him as Edward.
Bastille
-
Ya know, I liked him better as Cedric, but....it's hard for me to wipe him as Edward from my head. I know a lot of people think that him playing Edward made his career for him, but I disagree. I think it ruined him. Which is sad.
-
I personally thought he looked more attractive as Cedric then as Edward.
-
I personally thought he looked more attractive as Cedric then as Edward.
Yeah. And it's not like girls went crazy over him in that movie. He looked better in Harry Potter.
Bastille
-
Yes, he did....And Miyabi, your comment cracked me up for some reason. I wouldn't have expected a guy to make that observation....:P
-
Yes, he did....And Miyabi, your comment cracked me up for some reason. I wouldn't have expected a guy to make that observation....
Why not?
-
I don't know...It's just funny to me that a guy is the one to mention that an actor looked more attractive in one movie as opposed to another...
-
little wilson, you're just digging your hole deeper. That you find humor in the fact that some men are attracted to men makes you look insensitive and naive.
-
Hmm. I see what you mean....That wasn't my intention. I think the humor was more directed at the wording of the comment than the comment itself....But I really shouldn't be trying to defend myself. I've noticed that when I do that, I tend to dig myself in even deeper....Therefore, I'm shutting up now (or rather....tying my fingers up so they can't type?...maybe? ::)).
-
little wilson, you're just digging your hole deeper. That you find humor in the fact that some men are attracted to men makes you look insensitive and naive.
I agree with you Ookla. (please don't Tye your fingers together little_wilson) :)
-
I do see what Little Wil was saying…I just thinking that certain people may (will) take offense at her comment. That's all.
-
Well, I found her comment funny. xD So no harm done. ha ha.
-
miyabi is a dude? lol i assumed with the pinky purple writing and the commenting on his looks that he was a she :-[
-
Heh. I made that same mistake. I've since learned not to judge by the color of the font....of course, maybe that's because everyone else writes in black....:D
-
Miyabi has been absent for quite a while so I'm not surprised you would forget he is a guy :D
-
Never judge someone for their appearance. But I have to admit that I thought miyabi was a her as well. No offense taken I hope. :)
Just a thought though. How did the conversation go from SM to Edward Cullen to gay people to tying our fingers together and finally miyabi being a dude. We've gone WAY of topic. :) Not that I care or anything!! This is fun!! :D
Bastille :)
-
im penniless and bankrupt so im allowed to make newbie mistakes :D i still manage to be an aristocat though (and yes i said cat on purpose lol)
-
im penniless and bankrupt so im allowed to make newbie mistakes :D i still manage to be an aristocat though (and yes i said cat on purpose lol)
Yes you can make mistakes. Nobody expects you to be Mrs./Mr./Ms. Perfect. :)
Bastille
-
Miyabi has been absent for quite a while so I'm not surprised you would forget he is a guy :D
Oh this was before...I joined TWG about a month before he left, and it was in that time that I mistook his gender...It actually wasn't until I was in a conversation talking about people's gender that I learned he WASN'T a girl. It's rather ironic, in a way....
-
Oh wow I really killed this thread ::)
ha ha
-
Oh wow I really killed this thread ::)
ha ha
Ya think!!! Let's keep going!! This is FUN!!!!!!! ;D
Bastille
-
This Meyer made a good choice. Sparkling Vampires? Cmon!(actualy never read his works, im assuming its the one that was made into a corny vampire flic on the cinema)
-
Meyer is a female. Stop rezzing old threads please.
-
Vampires are becoming an overdone fad not to mention destroying myths is lame...i mean vampires turn to ash in the sunlight they dont shoot off a rainbow
-
This is an old thread?? It's only been like a month.…
-
This is an old thread now that I'm posting! :D I agree with Kaz. Vampires are meant to frighten and kill in horrible ways and now there teen hunks.
-
Maybe I'm a purist, but I still hold to Stoker's version. I like the idea of the monster being overcome and reformed by love and the human made monstrous by jealousy. The teen-throb is not so far off from Stokers' Lucy falling for the old Carpathian. But the whole stab em and they explode as a cloud of dust and it's all just a disease trend is a little too trite. We'd all have been better without BtVS etc. despite some very good acting. The best two characters were Seth Green's and Alison Hanagan's and neither needed a vampire story to flourish. . .
-
the 2-fanged vampire annoys me. the black-cloaked vampire annoys me. the Twilight vampires make me throw up in my mouth (a little).
i prefer the vampire that scares you to even think of the myth of it. 30 Days of Night got it right in my opinion, and the show Supernatural to a lesser extent. I keep hoping that the character of Twilight accidentally end up in Alaska and get torn to bits by real vampires.
-
@bookstore guy i didn't need your up-choke info (as humorous as it may be) but your point isn't a bad one i personally think they need to make more of the stories like the actual Count Dracula who was a morbid fellow and like to fight and torture his captives
-
We talking about Stoker's character or Vlad Teppes hero of the faith. :P
-
I don't really think there's anything wrong with changing vampire folklore....but you can't take out all the evil. It's just not right. Especially when you take out the evil and replace it with sparkles....That's just terribad.
-
Is that what Twilight does? (I'm horrified!)
-
Oh, that's not all it does. That's just ONE of the more appalling things. Trust me, there are many. I could list them. But the list would be too long....
-
That's just terribad.
I am Bookstore Guy, and I approve the use of this phrase.
-
*stands up cheers and applause*
-
Sweet. Thank you, Bookstore Guy. I actually considered giving you credit for it in that post, but this is just as good....
-
It seems to me that Twilight does not remove all the evil from the vampire folklore; in fact, most of the vampires are still villains, at least in the sense that they live on human blood and thus survive through killing humans. Even the vegetarian vampires are not without flaws and struggles.
I'm not saying Twilight is great literature (that statement, in this community, would take more courage than I possess - besides which, it's not true). It's just that absolutist statements bring out my desire to play devil's advocate.
-
Those absolutist statements are in reference to the Cullen's, since they're the vampires that the reader really gets to know. Yeah, I know the Volturi and pretty much all the other vampires are evil. But the Cullen's are the main characters.
Realistically, main characters should have flaws. It's what makes them relatable. It doesn't matter if the main character is a vampire or not, they need flaws. In this case, with the vampires, it's okay to mess around with the folklore, but you really have to be careful with it. I even think it's okay to take out the human-bloodsucker aspect by making them veggie vampires, but if an author does that like Smeyer did, they NEED to give the vampires a flaw .
Resisting the urge to suck blood is not a flaw. It could be considered a flaw, if one of them gave into the impulse. But none of them do. I'm not saying one of them needed to give in, but a flaw would've been nice. Even if that flaw was some explained backfire of drinking the blood of animals in replacement of human blood (and not that animal blood isn't as potent as human...something else).
I can't think of a single flaw in the Cullens. They're perfect. And that's distinctly unrealistic. Yes, they're vampires. I know. Vampires are unrealistic. But they're the main characters. They need to be relatable. No one is perfect. Not even supposedly perfect vampires.
-
the vegetarian vampires
Blood Lite eh? Vlad the Impaler is rolling over in his coffin...
-
Those absolutist statements are in reference to the Cullen's, since they're the vampires that the reader really gets to know. Yeah, I know the Volturi and pretty much all the other vampires are evil. But the Cullen's are the main characters.
My understanding was that most people (perhaps not you) were objecting to the fact that Meyer messed with the myth so much. My point was that her vampires DO possess the one most important characteristic of the myth - the desire to drink human blood. To me, the fact that the Cullens resist this desire is an interesting twist on that myth. Now, I'm no vampire expert, so there are probably plenty of other evil aspects to the folklore which Meyer casually ignores. But you can't say she threw ALL the evil out.
Resisting the urge to suck blood is not a flaw. It could be considered a flaw, if one of them gave into the impulse. But none of them do.
Jasper does. Or at least he tries to, and is restrained by his family. All the other Cullens except Carlisle and Rosalie have also succumbed to the impulse, at some point in the past.
I can't think of a single flaw in the Cullens. They're perfect.
Flaws and internal conflicts I see:
- Emmett is too fond of fighting and violence.
- Rosalie is vain and (at first) jealous of Edward's attention toward Bella.
- Alice is too fond of manipulating others. She also has a weakness for fashion and fast cars.
- Rosalie has not come to terms with her thwarted maternal instinct.
- Edward is tormented by the belief that his soul is condemned.
- All of them struggle with self-control, especially Jasper, as noted above. And while most of this struggle is off-screen, in the past, we do see a little of it at Bella's birthday party. We also see a good deal of Edward's bloodlust, both toward Bella in several places and toward her would-be-rapists in the first book.
- All of them have way too much fun killing and dismembering animals.
- All of them are prejudiced regarding the wolves, and they allow this prejudice to make them unreasonably hostile and antagonistic. (Of course the wolves share this flaw, in reverse.)
- All of them disregard the law when it suits their purposes (speed limits, fake IDs).
- All of them lie when they need to.
I would never argue that the Cullens are the most well-rounded, realistic characters I've read. But I think it's an exaggeration to say they're perfect and completely unrelatable.