Timewaster's Guide Archive
Local Authors => Brandon Sanderson => Topic started by: AvalonDreamer on April 26, 2008, 05:31:38 AM
-
Now that Brandon is writing A Memory of Light, I was wondering which of those groups people liked best and why. I think it'd be interesting to see how the groups stack up against each other.
-
Gotta be a channeler. It would be cool to be a mistborn, but you can only do so much with allomancy. You can do ANYTHING with the one power if you can find the right weave. Besides, it'd be easy for a channeler to kick a mistborn's trash. Just hold him still with air and balefire the heck out of him/her.
-
Gotta be a channeler. It would be cool to be a mistborn, but you can only do so much with allomancy. You can do ANYTHING with the one power if you can find the right weave. Besides, it'd be easy for a channeler to kick a mistborn's trash. Just hold him still with air and balefire the heck out of him/her.
QFT
-
honestly i haven't read the wheel of time stuff, so my options were limited, but i chose keeper. sazeds fights at the end of Mistborn 2 were just flippin awesome
-
AvalonDreamer, you should add inquisitors to the poll. They are arguably similar to mistborn, true, but there are enough differences to warrant it, I think.
-
i think that you should add elantrians and awakeners to the list. they're not mistborn or WOT, but it's still sanderson stuff and they're pretty cool as well
-
i think that you should add elantrians and awakeners to the list. they're not mistborn or WOT, but it's still sanderson stuff and they're pretty cool as well
Don't forget Rithmatists ;)
-
And while we're at it I think you should trow in the endowed from The Runelords, just to mix things up.
-
i think that you should add elantrians and awakeners to the list. they're not mistborn or WOT, but it's still sanderson stuff and they're pretty cool as well
Don't forget Rithmatists ;)
A lot of people may not fully know what those are, so it might not work to have them unless you explain, and you can't really explain they're full coolness unless you let them read about them...
-
Don't forget Rithmatists ;)
A lot of people may not fully know what those are, so it might not work to have them unless you explain, and you can't really explain they're full coolness unless you let them read about them...
True. Yeah, I don't want to explain it to anyone. They'll find out who they are when it's too late and no one can hear them scream. Muwahaha!
-
Channeler - they have much more organized societies. Although, I have to admit that a Mistcloak sounds cooler than an Aes Sedai shawl. But what keeps the ribbons from getting tangled? Are they some synthetic fabric?
-
Misborn. Less powerful, but it makes up for it in subtlety and just plain normalcy. The subtlety is a big thing for me though...if had that much power, I wouldn't want it to be as obvious as it is for channelers.
Aes Sedai/channelers are cool, but they live too long for my taste and they are just plain snooty :P
-
Aes Sedai can be subtle and can seem normal - the Two Rivers people had no idea what Moiraine was till the Trolloc battle. Their power doesn't need to be obvious until they're using it in obvious ways - just as Mistborn powers are obvious sometimes. It's pretty dramatic when Vin flies through the air like an arrow, or tosses armed men around.
-
Misborn. Less powerful, but it makes up for it in subtlety and just plain normalcy. The subtlety is a big thing for me though...if had that much power, I wouldn't want it to be as obvious as it is for channelers.
Aes Sedai/channelers are cool, but they live too long for my taste and they are just plain snooty :P
I'm having difficulty understanding how burning metals inside your stomach to manipulate metals and people around you is normal......
So what if you were a mistborn and channeler? That would be pretty much amazing!
-
So I have not read the wheel of time series. Is it good? Right now I am finishing up the Drizzt series while waiting on mb3, but the WOT series seems like it may be interesting, I may have to give it a shot.
-
So I have not read the wheel of time series. Is it good? Right now I am finishing up the Drizzt series while waiting on mb3, but the WOT series seems like it may be interesting, I may have to give it a shot.
It's really long, and you have to make sure that you pay attention to what's going on, or else you get lost on some stuff, but I thought it was worth the read... although, it did get kind of hard to get into at around book 7-9. If you're looking for something that's really detailed and will take a while (but is so worth the effort you put into reading it) then it's great. If you want something that you can just polish off quickly and be done with, then it's not for you.
-
Well, I would have love to be an Elantrian... nice balance between Aes Sedai and Mistborn...
-
I think Elantrian magic is a lot closer to Aes Sedai than to Mistborn, in that it doesn't require materials, simply skill. Also, Elantrians look different, as do Aes Sedai (female, anyway). There's nothing physical to indicate whether someone is Mistborn.
-
I would like to be an Inquisitor.Even a weak Inquisitor is stronger then some of the other mistborns. You wouldn't be able to be really sneaky because everyone would recognize you but no one would every try to pick a fight with you.
-
Hello all, this is a first time post, but I decided to throw in my two cents this time instead of just lurking around the boards. (Like I have for the past week or two.) Have to say it's a wonderful community, with plenty of knowledge to go around. Anyways, a few points. . .
Gotta be a channeler. It would be cool to be a mistborn, but you can only do so much with allomancy. You can do ANYTHING with the one power if you can find the right weave. Besides, it'd be easy for a channeler to kick a mistborn's trash. Just hold him still with air and balefire the heck out of him/her.
It might not quite be that easy for a channeler to fight a Mistborn though, especially if said Mistborn was either really rich, or had abilities such as feruchemy and hemalurgy to supplement their allomancy.
For example, if the Mistborn had a large enough cache of atium and other metals at their disposal, then I'd have to give them the edge in any fight. Being able to see what your opponent is going to do before they do it is something no Aes Sedai or Asha'man could counter, and you could probably tell at least if the channeler was going to balefire you via some combination of gold, electrum, and atium. (Though that makes me wonder if gold, electrum, and malatium shadows throw off an atium shadow if you burn both. Hmm.)
Or supposing the Mistborn had feruchemy and hemalurgy to increase their abilities, (like the Lord Ruler,) then they could burn a whopping load of speed and wakefulness, in addition to atium, to create a body that is fast enough to take out the opposing channeler before they have a chance to react. Or supposing they were really powerful, they could just use a huge steelpush to separate each individual molecule in an opposing force, by pushing on the iron in their blood and tissues. (Messy way to go though. Ick.)
I guess in the end it mostly comes down to surprise. Either the channeler is going to get a net of air around the Mistborn, or the Mistborn (if they're competent or lucky enough) is going to get to the channeler before they can react.
But back to the topic at hand, I would probably go with a Mistborn. While it's true Aes Sedai and Asha'man can do a much larger range of things, and would probably be a more versatile and worthwhile choice, Mistborn just strike me as more, well, striking. And Mistborn can do several things channelers can't, such as burn temporal metals and "fly."
Well, I think that's all I've got for now, but hopefully I'll think of some good content to add to the other discussions as well.
-
Without necessarily saying which one is better, Atium would not help a Mistborn against a channeler, because the flows can't be seen by a non-channeler, so the Mistborn would not be able to predice where the flows of air will grab them. The Mistborn's advantage would be in stealth and surprise.
-
That, and what good would atium do against a channeler like Rand? So what, you can see seconds into the future? He can pull a mountain down on you... Granted that mistborn could deff take a hit better though, as channelers can't heal themselves and don't have the advantage of Pewter.
-
That's what the use of electrum and such would be for. If the metal works in a similar way to atium, you could just watch to see where the flows of air caught you before they actually were flown. I suppose the way I wrote that came off as if the Mistborn would use atium and the other temporal metals to see what the channeler is going to do directly, but the best strategy would be to use it's added mental capacities to see what would happen to you, and use that information to prevent it. Kind of like what Vin does with Zane I guess.
I have to concede the point that in a one-on-one fight, with both parties knowing about the other, a channeler would have the edge in a fight, or pretty much anything. But I think a Mistborn's unique abilities could allow him/her to catch many a channeler unaware. With atium speeding up mental processes and rendering physical combat useless, duralumin and steel or iron to move around, electrum to gain at least marginal warning of any attacks against you, with the other metals throwing in their quirks, a Mistborn who was trying to say, assassinate an important channeler could stand a viable chance of it.
-
What about Brass and Zinc.A mistborn or inquisitor skilled in soothing or rioting could just blast them with it making them either really submissive or so angry they wouldn't be able to think strait. A channeler has to have there wits about them if they are going to win and if they cant think strait they are easy prey.
-
Well, emotional allomancy is only influencing emotions, not controlling them, and thats only as long as the affected doesn't know about it. The sensitivity of a channeler when wielding the Power would make them aware of something affecting them, and they'd fairly quickly start taking measures against.
I do agree that while they are very superior in a head to head battle, a Mistborn could whoop up on a channeler assuming that they could sneak up on them. Mistborn are creatures of stealth and shadow, channelers are blatant and powerful.
-
Has balefire entered this equation yet? I mean yeah, channelers can't afford to go around blasting things with balefire, but mistborn can't exactly afford to go around burning atium either. The long and short of it is balefire would eliminate several of the advantages the mistborn have, which aren't really stacking up in the first place.
-
A mistborn would just pull Matt's foxhead medallion and be immune to most attacks. Game over man.
-
Hmm, considering balefire's unique properties, how would a balefire blast look to an atium user?
-
A Mistborn with Matt's amulet would only have direct immunity to channeling, we know that dropping something like a large rock, or a flaming building, on them would still be fairly lethal. As for what would happen, it would be awesome...
-
Hmm, considering balefire's unique properties, how would a balefire blast look to an atium user?
Ooooh.... good question. One would assume they could see it coming.
That being said, I would MUCH rather be a Mistborn. Granted, if I was an Aes Sedai, I could heal people, and that would be awesome. But Allomancy is a cooler magic system, IMO. To me, it has more style and... finesse than channeling.
-
So What? You can see the huge white bar of liquid fire flying toward you at 10 million miles per hour? Why would that even matter? You see it, then a half second later your dead. You have no reaction time. There is an ongoing discussion as to whether balefire would affect someone wearing mat's medallion, but either way, hit them with lightning, their dead.
Well, emotional allomancy is only influencing emotions, not controlling them, and thats only as long as the affected doesn't know about it. The sensitivity of a channeler when wielding the Power would make them aware of something affecting them, and they'd fairly quickly start taking measures against.
I do agree that while they are very superior in a head to head battle, a Mistborn could whoop up on a channeler assuming that they could sneak up on them. Mistborn are creatures of stealth and shadow, channelers are blatant and powerful.
Actually, I would say that a Mistborn is controlling emotions, just not the person themself. Think about it, they can make them feel whatever they want, they just can't control how they react to that emotion. They can PREDICT it, but not control it.
-
But atium users have incredible reaction time. Balefire should be easy to sidestep if you know ahead of time exactly where it's going to strike. At least, that is if it were some kind of plasma attack with no temporal effects. Since it has temporal effects, can its temporal effects be countered by other temporal effects?
Also, don't channelers have to train themselves to have a lot of control over their own emotions?
-
No matter how good your reaction time is, you're still not going to be able to move quickly enough to get out of the way. Even if you are ridiculously fast to begin with and burning pewter, half a second isn't enough time to completely move. Even if you know what's coming. Ookla, channelers don't have to train themselves to control their emotions, they have to learn to not let them show and to not let them affect their actions.
Anyway, back to original topic, if you were to wrap them up in air before you BF'd them, they couldn't react. Yes, yes, I know, the medallion...so use earth and build a stone wall around them (and above) then you bf them. Regardless of what a mistborn could do, a channeler would win. The mistborn could hold his/her own for a bit, but they would eventually lose. What it comes down to is that a mistborn can't attack effectively from a distance (coins don't count, their too easy to block with air). A Channeler can, and mistborn really couldn't defend themselves against it.
-
I was just thinking, if a saidin channeler is using the flame and the void technique to clear his mind, how would emotional allomancy affect him? (Seems to me using the flame and void is like soothing all your own emotions away.)
Half a second is a LOT of time. At normal walking speed, your body is in a completely different location within half a second. (Specifically: Typical walking speed: 2.8 miles per hour. Distance traveled in 0.5 seconds: 2 feet.)
I don't know the typical blast radius of balefire, though, but if it's small enough to hit one of those dog creatures and not hit the ground around it, it seems like something easy to dodge. Even if it comes at you at the speed of light, if the channeler is standing 10 feet away, if you've got half a second warning, the effective speed is only 13 miles per hour. You can just calmly step out of the way. (And if you assume the mistborn is already moving due to already being in combat mode, it's even less trouble to change trajectory than to move from a standstill. Pushing or Pulling would give an added speed boost if necessary.)
I think it's hardly a question at all that a person burning atium could avoid a moderately-sized energy beam attack. The question I'm interested in is how balefire's temporal effects would come into play. Maybe balefire would end up killing an atium user the instant they saw it, before the attack actually hit them. (A situation kind of like thiotimoline's (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thiotimoline).)
And how would Grandpa Smedry react to balefire? (See Alcatraz versus the Evil Librarians. His talent is arriving late to things, including bullets.)
-
As to the atium vs. balefire temporal aspect, it would probably depend on the strength of the atium burn/balefire. I seem to remember hearing that flaring atium would give you a larger time jump into the future (can't remember if it was canon or not though . . .) but the strength of balefire can burn things out of the pattern at different intervals. So it would probably just come down to which had a larger temporal distance. (And the average size of balefire is about the width of your arm, if I recall correctly.)
However, another advantage Mistborn have is that 90% of Aes Sedai have to use hand gestures to get their weaves to work properly. Burning atium would let them see which hand gestures the Aes Sedai was using, giving another insight in to what the channeler was going to do.
As for zinc and brass, while channelers don't need complete emotional control, they do need to be able to focus. A Mistborn could riot emotions such as shock, worry, absentmindedness, or some such to weaken that control, or soothe all their emotions away in a big push to shock them out of weaving right. Of course, where Aes Sedai are trained to handle their emotions, this might not do much good once they figured out what was going on, but it could be used to stall and close in.
And as for Mistborn not having good long range attacks against Aes Sedai, it may be true, but a steelpush or ironpull (enhanced with duralumin perhaps?) would considerably shorten that distance very quickly. The terrain would really make a differene in a fight between the two though, as a lot of factors come down to how much metal the Mistborn has to use and how fast the channeler can get a weave around them.
Also, most Aes Sedai keep coins on them, don't they? A Mistborn might not have to get too close if they can just push the coins off them far enough to pull them back with lethal force. Aes Sedai aren't likely to guard against their own coins killing them. (Though I bet they'd learn fast.)
And keep in mind, it takes quite a lot of the One Power to go moving earth around, particularly large amounts of it. While the Aes Sedai in question could probably do it, (a touch unfair to give the Mistborn advantages such as atium and metal to work with without the Aes Sedai being equally gifted.) it would take quite a bit of effort to encase someone in stone. Which raises another question. Could a Mistborn riot/soothe an Aes Sedai's emotions to make them more likely to draw on too much of the One Power or otherwise let it consume them? I would think they could, as Rand makes Saidin at least sound easy to fall prey to.
-
I must say, this discussion is certainly more interesting than Superman vs. Son Goku.
Channeling as a type of magic is capable of so much more than allomancy. But in a head-to-head fight, I'm not sure who would have the edge, especially if we're talking about continuum-consistent channelers and mistborn. The average mistborn we've run into are much more used to killing than the average channeler. They are very effective at rapid assassination. Whereas channelers would be more hesitant to use lethal force.
If we take them out of continuum though, I guess if I were choosing a power myself I'd have to go with channeling, simply because my commute would be much shorter. Though it would be nice to try both out for a while and pick which one I like best. ;)
-
But Allomancy is a cooler magic system, IMO. To me, it has more style and... finesse than channeling.
I'd say that's kind of the point, no? Channeling isn't graceful, its brute force attacks. The truly talented channelers, other than people like Rand or Logain, who have tremendous limits to their power, are the ones who have acquired grace, and they aren't exactly easy to find.
It really depends on the channeler as far as the killing is involved. If the mistborn is dealing with an Asha'man it considerably levels the hesitation factor for the channelers. Also, in such a case I'd bank on the Ahsa'man, we've seen that they have no hesitation literally blowing people's heads off. Overall I'd say the mistborn has a better chance in close quarters, as they can move much faster and drop down from the ceiling, but in the open channelers win eight out of ten times. Although that aside I do wonder if the mistborn could move fast enough to avoid the weaves the Asha'man use to blow people's heads off, as insofar as my memory serves we haven't been told the exact nature of the weave.
-
feel free to ignore me, but i'm going to reiterate. Keepers rock. i'll bet that nine times out of ten a fully-charged, battle-practiced keeper could kick a mistborn's butt.
again, i haven't read the wheel of time, so i don't know about channelers.
-
I have to say Channeler hands down. While, as most of you have stated, the key to a mistborn beating a channeler is the element of suprise.Although with knife up my sleeve and the element of suprise on my side I could beat a channeler AND a mistborn, grant it mistborn abilities greatly enhance their chances at being undetected. To have a mistborn face a channeler head on is certain death for any mistborn. The mistborn can burn as much atium as he/she wants to but it will all be for naught when the channeler uses an attack that encompasses huge amounts of area. Back in the first book of WoT Moiraine creates a wall of fire that stretches across a whole fist of trolloc. Or how about when Rahvin turns all the air around Rand into water? I don't care if you can see three seconds into the future and you have pewter burning your just not going to make it. Channelers can effect to big of an area for any of that to matter. Heck, even if the mistborn was really good and quickly duralumin enhanced steel pushed their way away from the first attack the channeler is definately going to hit with the next attack. A mistborns only chance is that the channeler has no knowledge of mistborn and is caught by suprise and in close quarters. Bottom line IMO channelers contain just too much power for a mistborn to contend with....
As far as the temporal effects of balefire and atium burning go I see that as a complete mess. In theory channeler can use a stream of balefire strong enough to erase any effect the person they dispose of had on the world throughout their life. So, does that mean they won't be able to forsee the attack that effectively burns them from existence? Or would they see and be able to react to balefire the same way as they react to a coin flying through the air? That's what I believe. Until the balefire actually hits them I think the balefire would simply be another projectile for a mistborn to dodge.
-
Rahvin and Rand dodge each other's balefire attacks for quite a while before Nynaeve distracts Rahvin through Moghedian and the A'dam, so balefire can be avoided. That being said, both sides would need to adapt eventually. A Mistborn could push a channeler into a wall with lethal force, so channelers would have to remove all metals in the future. As for a Mistborn, once a channeler is aware of how Allomancy works, a Mistborn would be toast in a head to head fight. Atium would not help them see a flow of air being wrapped around them, or a knife-sized flow slicing their throat. There is no competition. It would be suicide for a Mistborn to face even a weak channeler head on. However, there are other ways to fight. Imagine what a Mistborn Gray man could do, for instance.
-
But as people stated earlier in the thread, electrum may show a Mistborn what will happen to them in the future, possibly getting them around the "can't see the weaves" problem.
-
With the Atium-Balefire Situation, I believe that the Mistborn would see it coming and where it would strike, but they would not die from being hit by the atium shadow. As for would they be able to see balefire, the answer is a resounding yes. The mistake you made, Comfortable Madness, was to say that balefire could erase any person's effect throughout their life. Actually, it usually only erases a few seconds previous to their death. The exception is when really powerful channelers go for hours (rand could probably get a couple of days). Incidentally, when the balefire is more powerful, it is also bigger around. There is no set size for balefire, it's just that most Aes Sedai are too weak to do more than about arm size.
As for Rhavin and Rand avoiding each other in FoH, darx, that doesn't really count here, as they can feel each other's weaves. They know when and where an attack will happen. Mistborn don't really know what is going to happen until they see the atium shadow, a few seconds after when Rand and Rhavin would feel it.
And besides, as stated before, it doesn't really matter whether mistborn can avoid balefire, all the Aes Sedai/ Asha'man has to do is wrap him/her self in air and the mistborn can't do anything to him/her. Then he/she would start chucking big walls of fire around, and the mistborn would be gone. No chance. If we're talking about stealth, the mistborn has a very good chance, but open battle? No way.
-
Ookla,
If gold shows you who you would be based on past choices, then I imagine electrum would work the same way. In that case, I would think that the Mistborn would choose not to fight a channeler directly because that choice would mean almost certain death.
Andrew,
True, they could see each other's weaves, but how long do you think it takes them to create balefire? The books make it seem like it only takes a second to for the stronger channelers to create the weave. A channeler would most likely not use balefire in this fight anyway, as you and some of us have stated already. I bet Semirhage or Moghedian could land compulsion on a Mistborn no matter what he/she was burning.
-
Ah, but it's malatium (as well as gold) that shows something based on past choices. Electrum is more likely to work like atium does, then.
-
I thought about that after I posted. I still think they would see that a surprise attack would be the most successful. I don't think any amount of precognition could save you from someone who can cause such mass destruction.
-
Obviously, this question will have to be explored further via fanfiction.
-
Here's another thought. While the weaves a channeler spins may be invisible, the actual effects they have are not, most of the time. Things like walls of fire and balefire are objects, so they would shoot off an atium shadow. I think this would give the Mistborn another advantage, as they could tell what weaves were being used against them by the atium shadows of their effect coming into existance. I mean, an atium shadow shows what will happen in the future, so if an object comes into existence I assume it's atium shadow would show it doing so before it materialized. This would negate the advantage a channeler has with physical weaves, and leaves them with the best weapons of compulsion and invisible air. (As some air weaves can be seen, such as when Siuan made the bluish-green sword of air on the boat to Tar Valon.) This fact, combined with the hand gestures and electrum shadows gives the Mistborn a fighting chance against most channelers.
The thing I can't find a way around is complusion. However, luckily for the Mistborn, there are only a few channelers who know the weave. Among regular Aes Sedai and Asha'man compulsion is not something to worry about.
-
How about a knife made of air? How do you avoid something you don't see?
-
If you see your electrum shadow sliced apart by an invisible blade, you avoid the spot you saw the blade strike. Difficult, but not impossible.
-
That seems like a maneuver you'd have to practice, and something tells me you only get one shot.
-
I think Mistborn would definitely win in a fight. At least against an Aes Sedai, maybe not an independent channeler (It's too confusing for me to figure out that one)
And like you said it's all about the element of surprise. An Aes Sedai cannot use the One Power to attack anyone until they attack them first. So theoretically, if the Mistborn sneaks up on an Aes Sedai and uses a duralumin-enhanced steel push to shoot a chunk of medal THROUGH an Aes Sedai... I think we know who wins.
(FYI, I'm still on Fires of Heaven for WoT, so if the Aes Sedai oaths have changed I wouldn't know.)
-
The oaths haven't changed, but male channelers aren't bound by the oaths, and not all female channelers are Aes Sedai. We just use the term as a generalization. I agree if a mistborn could get an attack off without the channeler knowing, they would win, but I don't see any way they could win in an open battle.
Ookla, that's a good thought, but I don't go for it until I know exactly how electrum works (which may be never, depending on MB3). AvalonDreamer pretty much said it all.
-
I think Mistborn would definitely win in a fight. At least against an Aes Sedai, maybe not an independent channeler (It's too confusing for me to figure out that one)
And like you said it's all about the element of surprise. An Aes Sedai cannot use the One Power to attack anyone until they attack them first. So theoretically, if the Mistborn sneaks up on an Aes Sedai and uses a duralumin-enhanced steel push to shoot a chunk of medal THROUGH an Aes Sedai... I think we know who wins.
(FYI, I'm still on Fires of Heaven for WoT, so if the Aes Sedai oaths have changed I wouldn't know.)
Attacking someone and using the one power is completely different. An Aes sedai if she spots trouble can easily put everyone in weaves of air, so those people cannot move. That is not an attack. (ofcourse it depends on the aes sedai)
Ofcourse Aes sedai and even Asha'man can be killed by surprise, but they both now have Warders or someone they are bonded too. If they are attacked they would also defend the channeler.
-
It might not be as hard to practice using your electrum shadow to dodge things as you might think. The trick is to get a situation where electrum is the only tool you have. Such as maybe having a mistborn shoot coins at you at night, or having a squad of archers fire blunt arrows at you. It's true it would take some getting used to, but I don't think it'd be that hard to get used to it. Especially not for somone burning atium.
As for warders, the regular kind would be no threat, as the atium we're burning gives the Mistborn any number of ways to take them down. As for Asha'man with Red's for warders, if the Mistborn doesn't have surprise or terrain on their side, probably best to just run until they do. Even odds are hard enough.
-
I think I'd choose a Mistborn. I just think it would be more fun.
As for the Mistborn Vs. Channeler debate:
1) Assassination. Mistborn would be perfect assassins, as they could simply approach the channeler, soothing away suspicion in both the channeler and any warder, and stab the channeler.
2) Battle. At least at first, I would give the edge to the Mistborn. An Aes Sedai would have trouble channeling after a Mistborn ripped her finger off with a Steel Push (thanks to the Serpent Ring) and rioted emotions like pain, uncertainty and fear.
Similarly, the Asha-Man could easily find their pins (sword and dragon) driven through their chests.
These attacks would even work if the Mistborn was trapped in Air.
If it became a long lasting group vs. group conflict, and channelers learned to avoid wearing metal, things would balance or even tip in their favor, but as things stand now, the Mistborn would win. You can't sever the flows of a steel-push.
EDIT: Additionally thought I'd point out that it's stated in the WOT books that you can't channel if you are experiencing strong emotions. You just aren't calm enough to embrace the true source. (I believe Siune mentions this when she says she wishes she could raise Nynaeve to Aes Sedia), which is why they are taught to keep their emotions under control. A duralumin riot of emotions should break through their self-control. Even though they would know they were being manipulated, they would be far to angry/sad/happy/fearful/etc. to do anything about it.
-
Again and again, and again, I have seen the Asha'man channel, and channel very well while they were angry, so the soothing effect would not work as well as you might think. Also, since Aes Sedai and Asha'am do indeed know how to controle their emotions, I doubt very much so that a Mistborn could soothe or riot a channeler's emotions without the channeler knowing that their emotions are being manipulated.
Granted, a mistborn could have the opportunity to sneak up and kill an Aes Sedai or an Asha'man before they knew what hit them. However, by the same token, since a Mistborn or any other non-channeler cannot see saidin or saidar, they would also have no clue at all if a channel using the One Power decided to do a sneak attack upon the Mistborn until it was far too late to react to balefire, a fireball, lightining strikes, etc, etc etc.
-
Again and again, and again, I have seen the Asha'man channel, and channel very well while they were angry, so the soothing effect would not work as well as you might think. Also, since Aes Sedai and Asha'am do indeed know how to controle their emotions, I doubt very much so that a Mistborn could soothe or riot a channeler's emotions without the channeler knowing that their emotions are being manipulated.
Oh, I'm sure they would know they were being manipulated, the question is would they be able to do anything about it. When you control your own emotions, you are choosing to suppress them. Could an Aes Sedai or Asha-Man suppress their own emotions faster than a duralumin fueled riot of said emotions? I think not.
You could also see it as: The channeler in question may be able to supress their emotions, but as soon as they are being rioted, the Mistborn is actually the one controlling their emotions.
It is true that Rand has channeled when angry, so maybe what Siune said about needing to be calm only applies to women channeling?
-
To channel saidar, you have to open yourself up to the power. To channel saidin, you have to wrest control of it. They're pretty much opposites.
-
Ookla's right, Saidar required serenity (though not absolute, as we've seen. Nynaeve, the forsaken and a few others channel while being emotional.), but Saidin required aggression and a will to live, which implies that there are emotions involved. I'd more than wager that a simple adaptation of the spirit weave to ward off people affecting your dreams (which had been theorized to thwart compulsion as well) would completely freeze out emotional allomancy - though sticking to purely canon material, rioting a channeler is a perfectly valid strategy.
-
Weaves that ward of dreams and theoretically compulsion only prevent the One Power from affecting your emotions, not something like a persuasive car salesman or the like. I doubt if the One Power could prevent emotional Allomancy without a weave that completely sealed off your brain to outside input.
As for Saidin/Saidar, a Mistborn would just have to to Soothe male channelers and Riot female ones. Make the men more likely to give up for a second, and the women more likely to try controlling.
-
WOT KOD Spoilers, so if you haven't read it and don't want it ruined, skip this one.
Rand gets his hand burnt off. He has no emotional reaction whatsoever. We also see that the Asha'man are all trained to not let their emotions affect them at any time. These men are basically required to be heartless killing machines. And soothing them wouldn't work. Based on rand, though there are likely other methods, men have virtually no emotion while channeling. When they do feel emotion, they promptly rid themselves of it via the flame and the void. Women need to ignore their emotions to channel, not get rid of it. So if the channeler is competent at ignoring emotions, the rioting wouldn't really work. The mistborn would have more of a chance against an Aes Sedai than an Asha'man, but honestly I see them charging and getting ripped to shreds.
The other thing we have not specified, in said fight, do the Mistborn/Channelers understand opposing magic systems? That would make a big difference in how well they fight. For instance, if a mistborn has no idea how channeling works, the whole electrum to see where your head gets chopped off thing doesn't work. If the channeler doesn't know how allomancy works, they are likely dead from metal on their bodies in seconds. It makes a difference. If they both know, however, they can prevent attacks much better.
-
Well, even assuming it was a drawn out series of encounters, I'd say that the Channelers have the upper hand, if only because the White Tower is fairly good about researching and reacting to new phenomena. I don't know how the black tower would fare, especially as how Taim is making it into his own engine of destruction.
-
I'd say it wouldn't be too far outside the realm of possibility for the groups to start with a basic knowledge of the other magic systems. Say, the channeler's know about the eight basic metals and their function, where the Mistborn knows about the five flows of the One Power and the basic mechanics of weaving them around your target to create effects.
These things are mostly common knowledge that could be learned without intense study, or by interrogating others. However, things like duralumin and balefire seem like things that they wouldn't have knowledge of at the start. So Aes Sedai and Asha'man would probably be smart enough to remove metal, and a cunning enough Mistborn would think of the Electrum and Atium tricks. (Because the theoretical challengers have a very intimate grasp of their own magic systems.)
And while it's true that the White Tower is good at learning about and reacting to new things, keep in mind that if the Mistborn wins there are going to be no survivors. An Aes Sedai's first reaction to a Mistborn would probably be to wrap them up in flows of air, slap a shield on them, and try to bring them back to the tower, which would probably end up with them dead as soon as they got near any metal. The White Tower would know something was killing off their Aes Sedai, but not necessarily what it was until the Mistborn let one go.
-
Okay, I have a question for all of you to ponder. If a Mistborn attacked from fifty feet in the air, could the ai sadai's channeling reach that far? Would it possible for a mistborn to attack from a distance further than the channeling could reach, or the other way around? Or are the magic ranges about the same? Also, mistborn have the advantage of being able to "fly" through the air, while ai sadai are trapped on the ground.
-
So we know that if the channeler knows who the mistborn is and they go head to head channeler has better odds but the great thing about mistborns is theres no trail to say who is fighting you so mistborns want to be just another person in the crowd.We also know that mistborns wont have a chance if its out in a rural area so it needs to be in a city;the bigger the better.
Now getting on a rooftop and aiming a chunk of metal at a channeler isnt going to work as well as it sounds.The Aes sedei have warders and they are always watching out ( from years of surprise attacks from the whitecloaks) so you probably will be spotted before hand. Other channelers might not be so cautious so you could get the slip on them if your lucky but that means no way to escape since you will probably be spotted.This also brings into question is a shield of air or spirit stops mistborns ability to push and pull metals inside the "air bubble".
The asha mann and the aes sedei can usually be picked out of a crowd since they where uniforms or have the ageless face.This will make it easy for a well trained mistborn to riot the crowed around the mistborn not the channler themselves. Most people that know what channelers can do have some fear of them and that will be easy to lock on to and riot making the crowd panic. If there are any whitecloaks or their supporters mistborns could riot their hate enough to attack the channeler thus causing a distraction.
Now If it is a trained aes sedei they probably have a warder near by. The warder would undoubtedly be carrying a sword. This could be controlled to either attack the unsuspecting Aes sesei or attack the warder making the channeler go crazy with grief like they do.that would be the easy way. If the Aes sedei know of the mistborn abilities and have removed all the metal (even though i dont see how they could get a warder to give up his sword)then now would be the perfect chance to coin shot them while the crowd is going crazy.
Now if the Channelers are incognito and you knew who they are(as apposed to some random hit) then you could yell some insult or something to let the crowd know who they are gaining the ability to riot their emotions. the Mistborn could then just disappear in the crowd.
If it came to an all out war i think the channelers would win seeing as there are so many more of them. I would love to see a battle between The Lord Ruler and Lews Therin.Maybe in comic book form
And while we are discussing these two magic systems has EUOL said what category channeling falls under in his magic rating system
-
If a Mistborn attacked from fifty feet in the air, could the ai sadai's channeling reach that far? Would it possible for a mistborn to attack from a distance further than the channeling could reach, or the other way around?
Actually, in a long ranged fight, the channeler would tend to have the upper hand. We know that depending on strength and flaring, a Mistborn's area of effect only reaches so far, but a channeler can affect any area they can see, or a close area that they can't see but know well enough.
As for the Warder argument, once Aes Sedai figured out that their Warder's swords were being used against them, they'd have them stop carrying them. Once solution for the lack would be to make a sword of air like Siuan did on the boat, then tie off the weave for them to carry around.
The rioting of the locals is possible, but ultimately futile against a determined Asha'man, who wouldn't have a single compunction against slaughtering every living thing within a mile radius, or an Aes Sedai with a Warder. A Warder's first duty is to protect his bond-holder, and if they're anywhere near Lan's level of skill, a few dispatched disgruntled mob-members would definitely discourage further attempts to mess with the Aes Sedai.
I'v also wondered what mechanic of Physics (even if it's made up in BS's universe) allows Allmoancy to work. Is it magnetism? If so, I don't doubt that a hybrid of the delving, metal-dredging and shield weaves would stop a Mistborn's ability cold in it's tracks. Couple it with a few ropes of air, and the MB is out of commission. Purely theory of course.
-
If you made the sword out of Cuendillar the Mistborn probably couldn't affect it, either. I am starting to like the rioting/soothing idea, especially for male channelers. Saidin is very difficult to control. If you are not in a calm state, you can lose the source or overdraw it. Imagine if the Mistborn rioted the pleasure received from holding the source, and soothed the pain caused when you begin to draw too much. It may cause the channeler to burn himself out or even kill himself by overdrawing the power. Nynaeve and pre-Asmodean Rand prove that emotional control is extremely important in order to properly channel. I still think many channelers would overcome this, but it's something to think about.
-
Pain is not an emotion, it is a sensation, which is different. So a soother would not be able to minimize the pain, but rioting the pleasure could make you forget, maybe ? I doubt it very much. ::)
Ok, I'm out of here :)
-
I am starting to like the rioting/soothing idea, especially for male channelers. Saidin is very difficult to control. If you are not in a calm state, you can lose the source or overdraw it.
Could you imagine the poor Mistborn who'd gotten used to rioting anger in female channelers to throw them off, then he comes across his first Asha'man and tries that same tactic? ROFL. That would make a wonderful stick-fan-vid... "Mistborn Mess-up".
Rioting pleasure can help you forget, but Aes Sedai are trained to recognize when their minds are being played with (though they all seem to fall prey to Compulsion like a crippled rat falls prey to a cat with an over-producing adrenal gland), and one would hope they'd notice and regulate themselves. Maybe they could all compel each other to ignore emotion, like I've long suspected those cold, loveless Whites do...
-
i haven't read wheel of time and would like to know 1) if its good and 2) where you can get it; but id have to say an inquisitor would be best with allomancy and ferochimy
-
Wheel of Time is AMAZING and you can get it at... bookstores, libraries, whatever. Wherever you normally get books. I'm sure used bookstores would having some of the books as well. I know that's how I got mine.
-
All of this conjecture was from before we knew much about Hemalurgy, and I'd still rather be an Asha'man. Wheel of Time was a pretty awesome series, and I think, having read it and MB, that Sanderson definitely has potential to write an epic fantasy like the WoT with his own twists.
-
This is a fascinating discussion! It would be fun to see a battle either written or drawn. That would be amazing!
-
Obviously, this question will have to be explored further via fanfiction.
Yes! This is a great topic!
-
WOT was such an exhausting read. Terribly slow. Unbearably so.
I was not as impressed as everyone else.
-
Nice, thread mancing is always fun. I do have to state that I never saw this thread before so I'm not against saying that although allomancy is one of the most original magic systems and one of the most fun it wouldn't stand up against channeling. Channeling allows for to much. I would love to see some mistborn even try to attack a channeler.
-
Mistborn is the only series i've read that compares to WoT. Other than that... nothing.
-
I don't know, when it comes to magic The Will and The Word from Eddings book is pretty powerful. Even Goodkinds Additive and Subtractive is strong if not basic. There just seems to be the most potential with WoT. Although I maintain that Allomancy and Feruchemy is are the most original followed closely by Farlands Runelords.
-
I think the Will and the Word is a pretty boring system. There's not enough to it, and not enough reason why one person would be better at it than anyone else besides "just because" or "prophecy."
-
Oh I agree with it being boring and so is Goodkinds additive and subtractive. Both are fairly un-imaginative. I did love the stories though.
-
I agree that this is a brilliant discussion. There are so many factors to consider in determining which magic user is more powerful. However, I think the first thing we need to do is level the playing field. There were a lot of comments of "if the the Mistborn could sneak up on the channeler," or "is the channeler an Aes Sedai or Ashaman" that make this discussion a bit confusing. I think you have to say that this is a pre-arranged match, where each side knows the basic abilities of the other and has time to prepare for it. Otherwise, you could slant events to make either side more likely to win. Also, you would have to release the rules on Aes Sedai channeling and just focus on the powers that they have. Since we're assuming that all Mistborn have the same basic abilities and skills, I think we have to assume that the channeler in this battle would have a good grasp of all five powers and knowledge of all the different types of weaves.
Assuming the above conditions, the Mistborn is most likely dead. They have no protection against Compulsion (as previously indicated), and if the channeler were to use it immediately they could just have the Mistborn slit his own throat. Atium would not help defend against that as they could not see what weave the channeler would use, just simply that they were going to use a weave. A duralumin fueled iron-pull would be the only way to get away from it, as I believe a Compulsion weave has to follow a distinct physical path from the channeler to the subject. That being said, unless the Mistborn were able to move far enough away (out of sight), the channeler could quickly get them again.
Essentially, this battle would end up going two ways - over in seconds with the channeler winning, or a long game of cat-and-mouse where the Mistborn hopes pewter dragging would allow them to tire out the channeler. In direct face-to-face combat the channeler has too many weapons to attack or counteract anything the Mistborn could do to them. Emotional allomancy, as previously mentioned, is a risky game of trying to disturb the channeler while hoping you don't get caught up in a bubble of air, a wall of fire, a massive lightning storm (like the one Rahvin uses in Fires of Heaven that "killed" Mat and Aviendha) or those crazy red lines that shoot out of Rand's hands in Crown of Swords and Crossroads of Twilight.
I really like the idea of the grey man Mistborn, although since the grey men aren't really people anymore (just hollow shells with no souls), I don't think that it would be possible since they are devoid of independent thought. Otherwise you'd see grey men channelers. Mistborn would be the ultimate darkfriends, however, used to assasinate whomever the Forsaken wished.
This entire topic just makes me more excited for A Memory of Light - Tarmon Gaidon here we come!
-
Ah but what about a greyman Inquisitor? Use the hemalugic spikes and you can grant intellicence and independent awareness. You could also grant allomantic powers. Now that would be interesting.
-
I always feel awkward posting in a topic when there is a few pages already dedicated to it because I know I probably missed something, but here are my two cents...
I really think this is no question, in a straight up fight, channeler > mistborn easily. What good is atium when you cant see the flows being used? Electum wouldn't be much use either, what I am talking about is using air.
As stated in earlier posts, there are certain weaves that require hand movements, correct me if I am wrong but I don't remember anything connecting hand movements and channeling air, so atium would be of no use. I believe that you could effectively "cocoon" a mistborn quickly and completely without them knowing what hit them. It is possible to suffocate using just air and by starting the "cocoon" far enough away from there body and bringing it in, I don't see how they could escape.
By using this "cocoon" method I don't think that electum would be of much use either because it shows direct effects to you, i.e. sword slash, coin being push etc, but how could it show that oxygen was going to be taken from you?
Also when the sun palace was attacked by the rouge Asha man in order to kill rand he threw up the shield that it states nothing short of balefire could penetrate, not even oxygen. Couldn't you instead turn put that around someone else, say a Mistborn, then sit there and watch them suffocate slowly?
-
As stated in earlier posts, there are certain weaves that require hand movements, correct me if I am wrong but I don't remember anything connecting hand movements and channeling air, so atium would be of no use. I believe that you could effectively "cocoon" a mistborn quickly and completely without them knowing what hit them. It is possible to suffocate using just air and by starting the "cocoon" far enough away from there body and bringing it in, I don't see how they could escape.
I'm pretty sure hand movements aren't needed at all. They White Tower trains Aes Sedai with hand movements but it is only a training method and not necessary. The Aiel wise ones all channel without hand movements of any kind. If I remember correctly Aviendha even mentions something to Egwene or Elayne the first time she sees them channel.
-
The hand movements are only necessary if that is the way you originally learn the weave.
-
Goodkind and Eddings' magic systems are lacking, IMO, because of the frequent uses of magic with few rules.
-
Ah but what about a greyman Inquisitor? Use the hemalugic spikes and you can grant intellicence and independent awareness. You could also grant allomantic powers. Now that would be interesting.
I totally never thought about that. However, if you returned independent awareness to a grey man, would he still escape notice? I believe it's his lack of conscious presence that allows him to sneak past people. I suppose you could argue an exception in this case.
I think we should add the gholam to this list - they live forever, can fit through a mousehole and are immune to the One Power.
-
Gholam are near immortal, and crazy fast/strong, but an Allo burning tin and pewter would even the field up pretty fast, toss in a duralumin pewter burn for a final punch or something, and it wouldn't be pleasant to be a gholam in Luthadel. Likewise Vin's flying metal bits of death, making sure a LOT of it was silver, would probably make for an unpleasant day.
-
Gholam are near immortal, and crazy fast/strong, but an Allo burning tin and pewter would even the field up pretty fast, toss in a duralumin pewter burn for a final punch or something, and it wouldn't be pleasant to be a gholam in Luthadel. Likewise Vin's flying metal bits of death, making sure a LOT of it was silver, would probably make for an unpleasant day.
Gholam were created as a specific counter for channelers.
For circumstances, lets set the scenario something like this: both sides are prepared for the fight, but neither has much equipment. Mistborn starts with several vials and a coinpouch, Channeler starts well rested. No angreal of any type, and only a bead or two of atium. Fight is in a city with lots of metal on buildings. Fight begins with neither knowing where the other is.
Overall, because of the raw power, I'd go with channelers. A mistborn could dodge non-targeting attacks, ie things like arrows of fire and lightning, but a holding weave would make them a sitting duck. (or, probably, a floating duck) And even while dodging, say, a good stream of balefire, how much time would they have for attacking? Coins wouldn't do much good-thrown objects aren't helpful unless the channeler is stupid. (ie Moghedian vs the male a-dam...when spears were launched at Rand by Couladin+crew, he was able to slice through that, and when a rock was thrown at Aginor-teotw-that turned to dust. And don't forget the super Rand-shield that nearly asphyxiated him.)
The only advantage a mistborn would have is in close quarters combat, as they'd be faster and stronger. If they even got spotted (which is likely, considering holding said(ar/in)) before closing the distance, the mistborn would be fried yesterday. (Balefire ftw)
-
The problem I see with this issue is the difference in degrees of power. A good majority of the Channeler's we see in the Wheel of Time books are regarded as some of the most powerful Channeler's with years of experience backing them. In Mistborn, on the other hand, almost all of the Allomancer's we see are on the weak end of the scale, and have had Allomantic training for only a few years.
Compulsion, Balefire, Rey's shield, all of those take a significantly large strength in the One Power to use. If the Channeler in this fight is that strong, then it's only fair to have an equally strong Mistborn. Say, someone along the lines of Elend's or The Lord Ruler's Allomantic abilities, perhaps even a full-blown Mistborn savant.
Now that that's out of the way . . . Weaves of Air.
I'm pretty sure trapping a Mistborn in a weave of air would be the stupidest thing one could do. The reason? Weaves of air keep the target pinned with a (nigh) unbreakable force. This would mean any Steelpush or Ironpull performed while trapped within a weave of air would have an (almost) infinite weight backing. Just like a coin hitting into a building can push back with a lot more force, the Mistborn hitting into the weaves of air would gain pseudo super-weight. Building in your way? Steelpush it flat. Pesky Aes Sedai bothering you? Smash her with an iron boulder or two. Annoyed at life in general? Do a massive ironpull on the planet's metallic core, and watch as waves of molten metal cascade down upon your enemies, heralding the end of life as they know it as their planet collapses in upon itself. (Though I'm pretty sure that one would kill you too.)
Of course, that may be a tad dramatic, as it's much more likely the weaves of air would just break, giving the Channeler a nice little migraine as their weaves snap, and sending the Mistborn flying off who knows where. After all, Channeler's can't just go lifting up mountains with air, and a properly positioned Steelpush would do just that.
If that isn't enough for you, there's always the old argument of the proper application of electrum and atium. Burning those two metals, a Mistborn knows everything that could possibly happen around him, and by focusing on the proper electrum shadow they know just how to turn any situation to their utmost advantage. (Or at least how to stay alive.) Lightning going to strike from the sky? Atium-shadows, or if that doesn't work, stay away from the electrum paths that show you getting fried. Weave of compulsion headed your way? Stay away from the electrum shadows which show you stop moving. (Though that could be a weave of air as well.)
Finally, I would not dismiss zinc and brass so easily. It's true most Channeler's are trained to keep their emotions in check, but I'm not so sure that would hold up if a Soothing or Rioting was fueled by duralumin. I see that as having an effect much like giving up Biochromatic Breath to someone. The shock is essentially unavoidable, and all it takes is one moment out of control for the One Power to drag you under.
Now I'm not saying it would be Mistborn > Channeler in any fight, by no means. But I don't think it would be quite as cut-and-dry as most people make it out to be. It's just all about the balance of power between the two groups. If we're going to have high-strength Channeler's going at it, we need to have high-strength Mistborn as well.
-
very good point about the flows of air ^
as far as equipment goes, saying they have equal equipment is pretty silly. Channelers really don't use any equipment, except for angreal and sa'angreal. The entire system of Allomancy is based on having the proper metals. If we are going to deny angreal to channelers, the only thing equal we can deny to mistborn is ability to use the Mists/lerasium. :o
also good point about the channelers we've seen being extremely strong. Even Moiraine who is considered "weak" compared to the other female channelers like Egwene, Elayne, and Nynaeve was considered a fairly strong channeler when she was being trained at the Tower. Rand is practically godlike compared to the channelers of her time, stilling I believe 2 Aes Sedai and defeating 4 more in his escape from the Aes Sedai after they captured him.
If the channeler in this battle is at the strength of Rand/Forsaken, it is only fair that the Mistborn be as strong as any other six mistborn combined.
-
Or just use one of the previously stilled Aes Sedai. Seeing how they have much less power. Or even an Accepted for that matter. I would be more prone to go with the Accepted seeing how their training level might be that same as our average Mistborn.
-
We do see Vin, who was both naturally talented and had a bit of a hemalurgic spike advantate-remember, she was beating up Ham. While the average channeler may not be as tough, a reasonably talented mistborn (Like Lady Shan or the unnamed mistborn Vin takes down in the beginning of book 2) is also weaker than those we've seen a lot. Also, in terms of training, wot main character channelers don't have much training either.
Am I the only one who sees the problem with the supposed ability to push buildings? It wouldn't work like that imo. Remember that Vin must, when durmalium-pushing, also use pewter in order to keep from being ripped apart. When trapped in a cage of hard air, the mistborn is more likely to be splattered against their bonds than it is for the building to move. In short, I think buildings are tougher than mistborn, even those blasting pewter.
Edited to remove repeated phrase
-
I equate Vin's level of power being somewhere near Moraine's. Quite strong for her time, but not even near the strength of the original nine Allomancers. And her Hemalurgic earring has nothing to do with her beating Ham, as it only increases her Allomantic strength with bronze.
I think a more reasonable comparison is between The Lord Ruler and one of the Forsaken. Both are some of the most powerful individuals in their fields, and both have had a very long time to hone their skills. I'd equate Rashek's Allomancy with one of the weaker Forsaken though, seeing as how he didn't have to rely solely on Allomancy, and he didn't have much opposition.
Also, a few months/years training in the White Tower compared to a few months/years learning things on your own is hardly an equal field. Just in the same way almost anyone on these boards could tell Kelsier a good slew about Allomancy, the older Aes Sedai can impart quite a bit of wisdom to the Accepted and Novices. A few year's training in Allomancy could more roughly translate to Nynaeve's skill with the One Power before her formal training began. She had been using the One Power for years to heal people, and had become quite proficient at it, but she still had her block and any Aes Sedai could run her up one end and down the other.
As for the building scenario, it's true too much force could splatter a Mistborn, but most of that force would either be absorbed by the weaves or used to break them. (Side note: I seem to remember that weaves of air are designed to not hurt those encapsulated in them.) All of the force in an Allomantic Push is directed towards the center of the body, so as long as there is a good, tight flow of air across the center of a Mistborn, the force put upon the body would be very small. There's more force involved if the Allomancer is pushing or pulling at an angle, but I still think that so long as there was a tight weave around the Mistborn, their body would have to endure very little force.
Of course, retreating from theoretical land and moving into more probable grounds, It may be true that a Mistborn is weaker than a building, but so is a Channeler. I believe Elayne equates lifting things with air to be similar to lifting them with your arms, and could you imagine lifting something pressing down with the force of a building? And this is Elayne, who is quite strong indeed in the One Power. (Or maybe it was Egwene, but the point still stands there.) All it takes is one quick little push against something stronger than the Channeler's weave of air, and the Mistborn gets a distinct advantage as the weaves snap.
Side Note II: Feruchemists?
-
If we go strictly by what we know a channeler can do and what a mistborn can do the fight isn't even close. This is evident in the fact that we continually go down the road of taking away power from a channeler and giving more power to an allomancer in order to handicap this fight. Plain and simple a channeler can do way to much. The biggest advantage is the channeler manipulates the surrounding world with their power and the allomancer manipulates only themselves. So, the ways for a channeler to win are pretty much endless....
-
But that's the neat thing about Brandon's hard magic systems. Once you know the rules, you can apply them in different ways. We know how Steelpushes and Ironpulls work, and we know that weaves of air provide a significantly strong binding force. I can only think of a few instances where this argument has strayed out of "what we strictly know", and none of them were crucial points anyways.
As for the discussion taking away from Channeler's that is merely an offshoot of trying to find a balance between the relative power scales. If we were asking wheather or not the average Aes Sedai could pulverize the average Lord-Ruler-time Mistborn, then the odds are quite in favor of the Channeler. But instead, we're debating whether or not a Mistborn could defeat a Channeler, if all else was equal.
Mistborn can also manipulate the world around them with most of the external metals, and some of their internal powers are great enough it doesn't even matter. It's true a Channeler has more versatility, but Mistborn were conceived to be killers. (At least mostly.) The One Power may be ultimate, but the people using it are most assuredly not.
-
"I equate Vin's level of power being somewhere near Moraine's. Quite strong for her time, but not even near the strength of the original nine Allomancers."
So are you saying that Vin's power level (OVER 9000!) is below average? With the developments of WoT, ie the Asha'man, the windfinders, etc., Moiraine is towards the lower end of the spectrum. Think, recent characters would skew the average upwards, and Asha'man would definitely have an impact...
(note: I am leaving Seanchan and Shara out of this. While there are likely numerous channelers in each, they'd offset each other-Shara breeds for channelers, while Seanchan removes them from their gene pool. Additionally, we don't really know how their populations...)
Vin is capable of killing mistborn and inquisitors alike, and if she's aproximately equal to Moiraine, the average mistborn would be equal to the average Aes Sedai. And we've seen how they faired against just about everything...
"But instead, we're debating whether or not a Mistborn could defeat a Channeler, if all else was equal. "
"Also, a few months/years training in the White Tower compared to a few months/years learning things on your own is hardly an equal field."
Are we trying to make things a equal field? Personally, I don't think it is. The point is not to have a fair contest here, but to compare the magic systems for raw power/usefulness.
"A few year's training in Allomancy could more roughly translate to Nynaeve's skill with the One Power before her formal training began. She had been using the One Power for years to heal people, and had become quite proficient at it, but she still had her block and any Aes Sedai could run her up one end and down the other."
I say that a Vin, pre training, is more in this area. They both didn't know what they were doing, neither used the full extent of their power, both were proficient, and neither could truly stand up to a trained counterpart.
"As for the building scenario, it's true too much force could splatter a Mistborn, but most of that force would either be absorbed by the weaves or used to break them. (Side note: I seem to remember that weaves of air are designed to not hurt those encapsulated in them.)"
I recall people thrashing around in air-this implies that they come up against something solid. While Mat describes this as a thick jelly(TDR), there are also examples of damage being done to a person while held. In the mini contest between Nynaeve and Siuan, Siuan is launched back, slammed against a wall, and held there. This does not seem to protect the person held.
There is, however, question as to how the weave works-channelers can lift people up into the air, but there is no mention of what happens if an outside force pushed on the held person then. Perhaps they would fly off, but the holding would keep, (Picture a mistborn, stuck in one pose, flying around) or my splatter theory would be proven. If you can find a passage where it notes that weaves of air are designed not to allow hurt-not just not to directly hurt, but also to stop indirect damage-please post.)
"I believe Elayne equates lifting things with air to be similar to lifting them with your arms, and could you imagine lifting something pressing down with the force of a building?"
I do recall something like this, but I thought it was more simile, rather than actual force. I think that there are strength limits to how much can be lifted, though whether your average mistborn could overcome this and break the weave would be up for grabs. (And they'd need to do it repeatedly, as channelers can weave quickly)
"Side Note II: Feruchemists?"
There's also true power...
-
The reality is, effectively every single power the mistborn have can be replicated more effectively with a channeler power.
Emotional allomancy : The one power can be used in numerous ways to directly force people to act against their will, or to swear unbreakable oaths. Rather than just 'influencing them'
Seeing into the future : been there, done that, for much longer timespans than 1-2 seconds in Robert Jordan's books.
Pushing metal? A channeler can push anything around with various weaves, no matter what substance it is made of. And, in more directions that merely directly away from or towards you.
Enhancing strength/health? A pair of channelers can heal each other almost instantly from virtually any wound. That is a heck of a lot more versatile than pewter. And, channelers don't need 'hulk' strength boosts...they can just cast a weave instead to do any heavy lifting or hitting.
Flight? Why fly when you can just warp the fabric of space and time and get to your destination instantly? Come on, now.
And some big things you guys have missed : the one power can be used to create LASTING items and weaves. Even things that you can give to another person who has no powers. Allomancy creates NOTHING.
Plus, what use does allomancy have to other people? You can't create things, you can't build things, you can't help anyone but yourself. Life is not all about combat or fighting. And, if it's a battle you need to win, a channeler can help an army much more. Assasination?
Channelers can protect themselves with weaves that act like permanent armor. How would an allomancer even kill a channeler who did this? Allomancers have no weapons that can punch through a reasonably strong weave or ward. Oh yeah, wards! I forgot about those. How the heck would an allomancer even sneak up on a channeler who is protected by wards?
I think that allomancy is a more interesting magic system because it has LIMITS. The One power can do basically anything you can imagine (except MAYBE resurrect the dead/travel in time and a handful of other limits)
But this discussion is stupid. The original thread was "which power would you rather have?" And everyone here is just talking about using each power in a fight, trying to come up with a convoluted way for someone with the inferior power to win.
There is no contest, here.
One power : do anything, very strong
Allomancy : do a limited list of things. Some people can only do one thing. Much weaker. Requires a reagent that is limited supply (metals). CANNOT BE USED TO CREATE LASTING ITEMS OR EFFECTS.
The more I write and think about this, the more stupid this thread sounds. This is like a contest between Peter Petrelli and Mike Tyson.
-
The reality is, effectively every single power the mistborn have can be replicated more effectively with a channeler power.
Emotional allomancy : The one power can be used in numerous ways to directly force people to act against their will, or to swear unbreakable oaths. Rather than just 'influencing them'
Seeing into the future : been there, done that, for much longer timespans than 1-2 seconds in Robert Jordan's books.
Pushing metal? A channeler can push anything around with various weaves, no matter what substance it is made of. And, in more directions that merely directly away from or towards you.
Enhancing strength/health? A pair of channelers can heal each other almost instantly from virtually any wound. That is a heck of a lot more versatile than pewter. And, channelers don't need 'hulk' strength boosts...they can just cast a weave instead to do any heavy lifting or hitting.
Flight? Why fly when you can just warp the fabric of space and time and get to your destination instantly? Come on, now.
And some big things you guys have missed : the one power can be used to create LASTING items and weaves. Even things that you can give to another person who has no powers. Allomancy creates NOTHING.
Plus, what use does allomancy have to other people? You can't create things, you can't build things, you can't help anyone but yourself. Life is not all about combat or fighting. And, if it's a battle you need to win, a channeler can help an army much more. Assasination?
Channelers can protect themselves with weaves that act like permanent armor. How would an allomancer even kill a channeler who did this? Allomancers have no weapons that can punch through a reasonably strong weave or ward. Oh yeah, wards! I forgot about those. How the heck would an allomancer even sneak up on a channeler who is protected by wards?
I think that allomancy is a more interesting magic system because it has LIMITS. The One power can do basically anything you can imagine (except MAYBE resurrect the dead/travel in time and a handful of other limits)
But this discussion is stupid. The original thread was "which power would you rather have?" And everyone here is just talking about using each power in a fight, trying to come up with a convoluted way for someone with the inferior power to win.
There is no contest, here.
One power : do anything, very strong
Allomancy : do a limited list of things. Some people can only do one thing. Much weaker. Requires a reagent that is limited supply (metals). CANNOT BE USED TO CREATE LASTING ITEMS OR EFFECTS.
The more I write and think about this, the more stupid this thread sounds. This is like a contest between Peter Petrelli and Mike Tyson.
Whoa! Ease down there fella. While I agree that it is close to impossible for a mistborn to defeat a channeler in open combat there is no need to call the discussion stupid. I've rather enjoyed this thread. What is the point of a forum if you can't have random and pointless conversations? Especially when it's about the magic systems of two worlds that don't really exist.
-
Enhancing strength/health? A pair of channelers can heal each other almost instantly from virtually any wound. That is a heck of a lot more versatile than pewter. And, channelers don't need 'hulk' strength boosts...they can just cast a weave instead to do any heavy lifting or hitting.
Biggg flaw with the healing: it takes so much strength out of the channler that they wouldn't be able to do anything.
-
Jakobus, the person being healed loses strength, the person doing the healing doesn't lose that much because on their side of it, the strength comes from the one power.
The biggest limitation I see of the healing thing is that contact is needed in order to heal, which might be difficult to maintain during a fight.
-
I voted Mistborn, not because it's the most powerful, but I think I would enjoy it the most. Channelers are the most powerful, by far... If I could have two powers though, Wolfbrother would get stacked on with being Mistborn.
I still have vivid images of Elyas from EotW. Everything about the Wolfbrother system was cool. <3 Hopper.
-
yeah if you recall they always tell them to stay in bed for a few days so they can regain the strength. i understand it as it just speeds up the healing process using the bodies strength. it takes it from the channeler and the one being healed.
-
Jakobus, the person being healed loses strength, the person doing the healing doesn't lose that much because on their side of it, the strength comes from the one power.
The biggest limitation I see of the healing thing is that contact is needed in order to heal, which might be difficult to maintain during a fight.
Unless you had a 'little person' Aes Sedai that holds tight under your robes. Hmmm. The possibilities are infinite now!
-
Would one consider not chooing Channeler cause I want to master an art with my pride (and bottom) intact a valid reason? :D
-
Personally I think the terrain would factor in a lot more. If the fight were in an open, flat field, then the channeler would probably be able to nuke the mistborn before they came within 100 feet (I think of it as Mistborn=ninja, and channeler=mage)
But if it were in a small space, then most likely the mistborn would be able to kill the channeler before they could weave anything, using coins and such. Also, a city fight would figure a lot into the mistborn's favor, as there would be tons of pushing and pulling anchors to use, probably enough for the mistborn to stay consistently out of the channeler's sight and crosshairs. you can't channel at what you can't see.
of course, there are things like if the channeler has wards or has time to make big fancy traps, but I think that a good pull on a peasant's coin pouch behind the guy (or just a nail for that matter) would be enough to kill most channelers, especially if you have them distracted.
This is assuming that no one fights an allomancer long enough to figure out some freaky weave to shield them. they'd have to block the energy within the allomancer's body, rather than try to break them off from the source. (obviously, if they haven't fought them before, they'd assume that they fought using the source, and try to shield them while the mistborn stabs them in the face.) that'd take way too long to figure out, even for the main, prodigy characters.
Besides, if the fight was in the mistborn world, then the channelers can't even use their magic because the Power is not there to use.
-
Besides, if the fight was in the mistborn world, then the channelers can't even use their magic because the Power is not there to use.
In real life, neither would be able to use their powers. So there.
May I point out that you seem to be viewing this through a bias if you view it only like that?
-
Oh heck yes ;D
-
So what happens if the Allomancer gets a hold of Mat's necklace?
-
I never really understood what Mat's necklace would actually do. The heat from a raging ball of fire would still instantly cook him even if it vanished as soon as it touched his skin. Or the channeler could just pick up a knife with the power and throw it at him...
-
The way I understand it, anything that is of the power is unable to affect the person wearing the necklace. So, in the case of the fireball, since the heat was made by the power, it couldn't hurt Mat. They could toss a knife and it would still kill the person, but if the person were a Mistborn, they could just Push the knife aside, or dodge it. Same thing goes for the shield of Air. The flows of Air would melt away if the person with the necklace passes through them.
-
Any weave that touches him would melt. However, he can still be affected/killed by the power. Recall, Rand's assault on Rahvin-Mat got cooked by lightning. (Which was an area targeting weave, as opposed to a person targeting weave) So weaves that target him can't touch him, while weaves that target his area still get him.
-
Actually, I think Mat's amulet specifically shields against saidar, not saidin, which would be why he was affected by Rahvin's lightning. However, Cadsuane has a charm that shields against saidin, if I remember correctly.
Mod: Then again, you might be right. I just looked it up and Halima tried to channel at him too, and it didn't work. Either way though, if the channeler can't hold the Mistborn in one place, and can't channel directly at him, the channeler is going to have a rough time of it.
-
The more I consider this debate, the more I realize that very little would be necessary to sway the fight one way or another.
If it's a freshly-Snapped Mistborn versus a Channeler who just discovered their powers? I'd go with the Mistborn, for sure.
The average Mistborn up against the average Channeler? Take a look at the terrain. (And miscellaneous other questions, such as how much a weave of air weighs and how well it holds up to a point-blank Steelpush. And do weaves give off Bronze pulses? And would a duralumin/nicrosil Riot/Soothe be enough to disturb any given Channeler?)
Rand or one of the Forsaken fighting Elend or one of the other Nine? I'd go with the Channelers here, as there are a lot of weaves to stop even a powerful Mistborn.
A good Forsaken or Shaidar Haran battling an original Allomancer savant? I'd say the savant, if just because an unaided Steelpush of this magnitude is great enough to crush someone flat by the metals in their own bodies. If someone duralumin-ed the metals in someone else's body, I think they'd go pop.
Shaidar Haran or a really good Forsaken challenging The Lord Ruler? (In all his Allomancy/Feruchemy/Hemalurgy glory of course.) This I think is a game of "Who sees whom first?"
And, just for kicks and giggles, A linked Rand and Nynaeve using the Choedan Kal dueling God-Sazed in an epic battle of things gone too far? It doesn't matter who wins, everyone else is dead.
Aside from that, it's basically just terrain, and crazy odd combos of the two magic systems nobody but Brandon could know about. (Could a Tin savant sense weaves based upon the minute changes a weave would make in the matter around it? Do weaves give off Bronze pulses? Would Copper prevent a Channeler from warping the fabric of creation around a Mistborn?)
-
Interesting discussion, I figured I would throw a comment here.
Based on what channeling could do, I would say that a (smart) channeler could easily beat any mistborn. There are so many things a good channeler who truly used his/her skills to their full potential could do that could be used to utterly crush a mistborn.
I will say however that I think from a literary viewpoint, allomancy is better than channeling simply because its more limited and so you dont have to make your characters look like idiots to keep the challenge up.
For example, consider the shield Rand creates in one of the books. It is explicitly said that its utterly indestructible with the only weakness being that its so solid that not even air can pass through. A shield like this would pretty much allow a single channeler to wipe out an army. Just create a coccoon like Rand did, then create a tiny gateway inside the cocoon through which air can flow and presto, you can kill everyone around you with no chance of being hurt. Heck, even just creating the shield, using the air inside and then turning it off for a split second (to allow new air in) before creating it anew would make a channeler extremely difficult to defeat with only a tiny window where they could be hurt. Ofcourse this would mean that Rand&Co would never really have to fear anyone again so the possibility is ignored and the shield itself is conveniently forgotten.
Or what about opening a gateway to space near the enemy and sucking him in. Or flooding an army by opening a gateway under the ocean and letting the water literally wash them away. Also whats the point of all those cool fireballs and such when we have seen that a channeler can just slice someones head off with a single sharp weave of air. And we have seen that you can literally grasp the one power and weave such a thing in a tiny fraction of a second. In one the books some guy surprises Rand by throwing a knife at him with no warning from a short range, only to have Rand capture the knife in such a weave practically as a reflex. There is no written reason given why a channeler could not use that to literally slice the Mistborn into pieces the instant the channeler saw the mistborn. Infact the same technique could be used on anyone other than opposing channelers and yet we see it only once in WoT (and conveniently never again).
Given the way the channeling system is built up, all these and so many other techniques would be possible and would pretty much make the channelers godlike in comparison to normal people (or allomancers for that matter). And yet having godlike main characters would be boring so RJ deliberately gimped his characters to keep things exciting, the downside of this being that Rand, Forsaken and generally all the channelers end up looking like blind morons who cannot seem to grasp how easily they could devastate their enemies if they simply used channeling in clever ways.
While I am a great fan of WoT, I will say that this is actually one of the things that bugs me the most. There are so many times in the books when I wish I could yell at someone for doing something stupid, when a proper and smart use of the power would easily solve everything.
-
I'm really trying to stay out of this discussion because I have tons of work and don't want to get drawn into a no-win argument.
This is what I gather from the discussion. A channeler can lift up a mountain and bring it down on the Mistborns head, yet for some reason they never do it in the books. Heck, the only thing I see with regular constistency in these books are these infinitely powerfull beings being taken down time and again by regular folk. There's a reason they run around with Warders and it's not for the physical contact when they have pillow-friends at home.
Sure, a Mistborn will lose if you assume that they are standing out in the open facing the most powerfull channeler of all time. But that's taking both characters out of their normal roles. The Mistborn isn't going to expose himself/herself. He will kill you from a distance with a penny through your skull, and see where the blood will splatter minutes before it happens. The channeler meanwhile will drink some tea and fall asleep.
Anyway, back to the original discussion. I prefer the Mistborn because their magic system has limits that they are constantly pushing it, whereas the channeler who evidently has all this power at their disposal, does nothing with it.
-
Interesting comments, Vegas. WoT's channelers are quite vulnerable when they don't hold the power. There is really nothing special about them at all without it. In fact, this was discussed in another thread some months ago, and I believed a Soother could simply dampen the concern for the pain felt when channeling too much power, causing them to burn out or even kill themselves. A rioter could do something similar. There would certainly need to be some adaptation to Mistborn abilities in order for Aes Sedai to protect themselves from super assassins. Being killed by your own coat buttons would be quite embarrassing.
-
A channeler can lift up a mountain and bring it down on the Mistborns head, yet for some reason they never do it in the books.
I'm pretty sure that no channeler is strong enough to pick up a mountain with the power...there are limits.
-
A channeler can lift up a mountain and bring it down on the Mistborns head, yet for some reason they never do it in the books.
I'm pretty sure that no channeler is strong enough to pick up a mountain with the power...there are limits.
Rand could/did, but it would kill him...again.
-
I've seen mostly a focus on third age channelers. Let's back it up to second age channelers for a moment to add some perspective.
Accomplishments from the Age of Legends for your consideration:
- A utility grid consisting of standing flows of the One Power which specially created devices could tap much the way modern electronics plug into the electrical grids during our age.
- Devices which made use of the standing flows of the One power to do all sorts of things including change the weather, create fabric etc. Some of these devices did not even need the power grid as they had their own inate ability to do whatever it is they do
- Some form of flying transport which could be used by non-channelers.
- Weapons which used the power to allow non-channelers to function much like modern soldiers, complete with flying attack vehicles, and rifle like weapons.
- Interstellar travel
- An understanding of the multiverse, and quite probably an undersanding of string theory
- The ability to instantly travel from one location to another on the planet, and quite probably anywhere
- Medical care which was considerably more advanced than our own
- Genetic engineering
- The ability to create a substance which was quite literally unbreakable by any and all means native to our dimension
- The ability to literally affect continental drift on an alarming and rapid scale.
- The ability to raze a mountain range and create new ones
- The ability to drill down through the crust of the earth and reach the magma beneath
- The ability to travel to other unniverses and return with species which are not native to our own.
- The ability, with the right Sa'angreal, for two channelers to destroy the world.
- The ability to drill through to the Dark One's prison(probably a pocket universe of some variety or other outside the usual realm of the multiverse)
All of these things were possible in the age of legends, although some of them required channelers to link or make use of angreal and sa'angreal which allowed channelers to wield more of the one power than they could otherwise. With the right Sa'angreal a powerful male channeler probably could pick up a mountain, but almost certainly wouldn't bother as a mountain is hardly the right weapon for the task at hand.
The list goes on and on. It's not that Saidar and Saidin are "better" than Allomancy, Feruchemy and Hemalurgy. They are just on a different scale. Perhaps given a couple of thousand years of time to advance the sciences of Allomancy, Feruchemy and Hemalurgy, some of the accomplishments mentioned above could be replicated, but it is unlikely that this magic system could ever equal the flexibility of channeling.
Now as for someone writing a fanfic to explore the idea. Good luck. Getting it right would be very tricky, but as for how Channelers could encounter Allomancers, setting it in the Age of Legends during one of the offworld expeditions a small group of channelers could stumble upon the Final Empire. A smaller number of channelers means that despite their advanced knowledge, skill and power, they'd still have to tread carefully in a strange world with odd people with the ability to do confusing weird things.
-
Okay, with the release of Cadmium and Cerrobend, we have an (Almost.) complete understanding of how Allomancy works. Honestly, I think those two metals change things a lot. Channeling may be very, very useful, but the ability to slow down or speed up time? That would make any person's life that much easier. A Slider burning Cerrobend could do who knows what with all of that extra time. A Pulser, while not nearly as useful, could still make those dull moments trickle by faster. Either of those two metals would be enough to push me into a Mistborn.
As for a one-on-one fight, I think these metals would give an immense advantage, however I don't know if it would singularly be enough to push the fight one way or another. I think it would depend a lot on how much one could warp time, and how it interacted with other metals. Would a Pulser be able to see Electrum shadows more clearly, as the slowed time means less possibilities? Or would a Slider be able to see them more clearly, as once they left the bubble they would slow down? Would some of the shadows be easier to see as the shadows stopped burning metals?
Anyways, I think this topic deserves reconsideration now that we have almost all of the facts. (The only things left that I see are flaring, metal interactions, and savants, but those are mostly easy to guess.)
-
Also a pulser would be able to move a lot faster as opposed to someone outside the bubble. It depends on how much time is sped up, but I don't think it would be impossible to dodge bullets as a Pulser.
-
of course channeling is the best. Mist is good but WoT channelers are insane!
-
Now that Brandon is writing A Memory of Light, I was wondering which of those groups people liked best and why. I think it'd be interesting to see how the groups stack up against each other.
WoT is incredibly epic and very interesting but if I had my way, I'd have Sanderson not just write Memory of Light but re-write the entire WoT series.
I first picked up WoT after I finished re-reading the LotR books and devouring a bunch of Forgotten Realms stuff and although I enjoyed it, I found WoT highly derivative and with dangerous levels of Gary Stu. And as much as I enjoy the massive quantity of details, I think it has caused it drag on far too long.
What immediately drew me to the Mistborn series was how it turned the genre on its head (that epic journey the hero went on to defeat the big bad evil overlord? Yeah he lost. A thousand years ago.)
I could go on about this for hours, but I feel guilty bad-mouthing WoT. And the many pages of this thread have nothing to do with the question that was asked. :B
-
Now that Brandon is writing A Memory of Light, I was wondering which of those groups people liked best and why. I think it'd be interesting to see how the groups stack up against each other.
WoT is incredibly epic and very interesting but if I had my way, I'd have Sanderson not just write Memory of Light but re-write the entire WoT series.
Hands down the most absurd thing I have ever read on these boards. I love Sanderson's work but seriously?...Gaaah...The more I think on this the more obscene it becomes!!!
-
Sorry. :- ( For comparison, IMO Wheel of Time is like Star Wars or Stark Trek -- it's really cool, it's enjoyable but it's not... exceptional, high-quality stuff.
Another example: one of my favorite anime is a juvenile two season soap opera epic called Fushigi Yuugi. I love it to pieces. I can't watch it without crying. But really, it's not a "good" series unless you're a fourteen year-old girl.
That's how Wheel of Time is to me. Elantris and Mistborn on the other hand strike me as actual serious quality works.
-
Sorry. :- ( For comparison, IMO Wheel of Time is like Star Wars or Stark Trek -- it's really cool, it's enjoyable but it's not... exceptional, high-quality, high-brow stuff.
Another example: one of my favorite anime is a juvenile two season soap opera epic called Fushigi Yuugi. I love it to pieces. I can't watch it without crying. But really, it's not a "good" series unless you're a fourteen year-old girl.
That's how Wheel of Time is to me. Elantris and Mistborn on the other hand strike me as actual serious quality stuff.
Yeah...we'll have to fix that for you.
-
Please don't hate me. :B I'm going to read the series a second time soon, maybe I'll change my mind.
-
Don't worry. We will only hate you until you are done with the reread :D. J/K. I have tried to get alot of people to read WoT but it seams to be a love/hate thing. People either love the books or can't stand the detailed writing style. You are actually the first person who is in the middle that I have met.
-
Yes in a straight up, 2 people standing in a field fight the advantage is to the channeler (of any stripe). The mistborn really only has a chance if his dagger is in the channelers throat about three seconds before the channeler realizes someone has a problem with him.
However, I still chose mistborn...
The one justification for a choice i have yet to see in this thread is, "What would be more fun to be?"
Yes Channelers are powerful ( though as someone pointed out, not that creative) However, nothing they can do really gives you a rush. Sure throw some balefire here, warp time and space there, but would that leave you feeling light headed and giddy like using steel and iron to navigate a spike way, basically flying? That is so much mroe life affirming. Admit it, everyone reading this has at some point had a daydream about flying, and i honestly doubt someone thought it was a bad idea.
(disclaimer: Yes is this is my first post on the forums, and yes i realize that sometimes i just do not feel like capitalizing, especially that accursed letter i)
-
Channelers used to be able to fly. At least in the age of legends. We will see if that talent is rediscovered.
-
I'm pretty sure they used airplanes, not channeling, to fly.
I suspect that flying by channeling is possible, but no one's thought of the key principle involved - don't try to pick yourself up, try to push the ground down instead.
-
I thought at some point it was mentioned that they could fly (not airplanes) but lost the ability over the years. It was in the same section about the lecture of not picking yourself up with air I think. I guess I will find out soon as I will be starting my reread in a week or so. I just need to finish my current book.
-
I picked Wolfbrother, not because they're the strongest or the most skilled, but because Perrin and Elyas are two of my favorite WoT characters.
-
I love the idea of wolf brothers. They are one of my favorite characters. Alco, like male channelers they have to fight to keep there sanity, or in this case humanity, and not go entirely wolf. Access to the dreamworld and the wolves living in the dream world after death is very interesting too. My only question to that is how come the dream world is not full of wolves that have died over ther years. Have they been reborn like the heroes of past ages or do they just pass out of that world at some point as well. I can't see the slayer reducing there numbers that much.
-
Now that Brandon is writing A Memory of Light, I was wondering which of those groups people liked best and why. I think it'd be interesting to see how the groups stack up against each other.
WoT is incredibly epic and very interesting but if I had my way, I'd have Sanderson not just write Memory of Light but re-write the entire WoT series.
Hands down the most absurd thing I have ever read on these boards. I love Sanderson's work but seriously?...Gaaah...The more I think on this the more obscene it becomes!!!
I somehow doubt he would care to do that. I think being approached to write the final installment of WoT would be a great experience, but as an author with plenty of his own fresh ideas and active imagination, being asked to put a halt to his own works and rewrite something as long as WoT would in fact be a burden.
-
Now that Brandon is writing A Memory of Light, I was wondering which of those groups people liked best and why. I think it'd be interesting to see how the groups stack up against each other.
WoT is incredibly epic and very interesting but if I had my way, I'd have Sanderson not just write Memory of Light but re-write the entire WoT series.
Hands down the most absurd thing I have ever read on these boards. I love Sanderson's work but seriously?...Gaaah...The more I think on this the more obscene it becomes!!!
I somehow doubt he would care to do that. I think being approached to write the final installment of WoT would be a great experience, but as an author with plenty of his own fresh ideas and active imagination, being asked to put a halt to his own works and rewrite something as long as WoT would in fact be a burden.
Well that, plus the fans would crucify him...not that its his decision anyway.
-
Well that, plus the fans would crucify him...not that its his decision anyway.
Well, he'd have the choice to turn it down.
-
Which he probably would.
-
I picked Wolfbrother, not because they're the strongest or the most skilled, but because Perrin and Elyas are two of my favorite WoT characters.
I love them, too, and would like being one of them; I'd still rather be a channeler.
-
Yeah, the idea of Brandon rewriting any of the Wheel of Time books is just silly.
-
He would be dead within a week.
-
Right, because of freezing to death from a freak blizzard. In hell.
-
I was thinking more like from being stabbed to death by millions of millions of enraged fans, but…yeah, that, too.
-
I'm just saying there's no reason anyone would kill him because it would never in a million years happen in the first place.
-
But if, Ookla. If.
-
Right, because of freezing to death from a freak blizzard. In hell.
Agreed.
You know, I only learned of Mr. Sanderson because he was selected to finish WoT, but after starting to read some of his stuff, I'm more excited to see more of his original works than AMoL. Not that I'm less of a WoT fan after reading Mistborn, but because his stuff is very creative and twisty, but with plenty of realism in it. I read Mistborn and felt that that world could be, and now that I'm reading Mistborn 2, it just keeps building.
So while I calmly wait for Tarmon Gaidon, I anxiously await the next step in his career beyond WoT...
-
I think many of us do. Personally, I'm waiting for BS to finish (and publish) AMoL not just cuz I wanna read it, but cuz i wanna see what his next project will be.,
-
I'm pumped for Warbreaker. Well, and the second half of MB2 and for MB3, since I haven't gotten that far yet, haha.
-
Ok i read the first several pages and I must say it depends on the channelers might. From what I hear ya'll are acting like Moraine is a normal strength channeler when she is super strong (New Spring she is the strongest in about 800 years) and most sisters are shocked that Elayne can pick up a cast iron laundry bucket filled with water in it with merely air. A strong channeller can send out a shockwave that kills everything in a 50m radius but thats freakish strong a weak channeler aka most common channelers that don't make even accepeted would be slaughtered by a mistborn... I choose the OP because of the sense of extreme life you would feel and its over all versitility :o