Timewaster's Guide Archive
Local Authors => Brandon Sanderson => Topic started by: darxbane on March 20, 2008, 03:56:06 PM
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Please let me know if there are any I missed.
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You missed "The Lord Ruler's Identity."
As for myself, I don't think I could label one of Mistborn's twists as the best. They're all good.
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It wasn't so much the best as least expected. There were some clues as to Rashek's identity, as well as the Well Spirit's true intentions, even if some of it was near the point where you find out anyway. The discovery that Oreseur was actually Tensoon was completely unexpected by me. I don't think I would have ever seen that coming.
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When I read through Mistborn a second times I realized that there wer all kinds of hints that I missed.
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Yeah, the Oreseur/Tensoon thing took me completely by surprise the first time I read the books, but rereading them now it's not surprising. His personality changes subtly, and he doesn't know everything he should.
It's funny, but I think I've learned more about foreshadowing by reading Brandon's books than I could ever have learned in a class. My creative writing class didn't even come close :P
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It's always so subtle that you just brush over it at the time, but it always comes back to things later.
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I would have to say that Marsh's return was the most surprising, due to the complete lack of foreshadowing (I just finished a reread 2 days ago and don't remember any).
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The kinds of twists are usually those that have massive implications, like Lord Ruler's Identity or the Prophecy Betrayed. I'll invariably throw my weight on those :P
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I still haven't seen any real tells that Oreseur was replaced. Tensoon would have adapted Oreseur's personality exactly. His change in personality was due to being forced to become a dog, which apparently all Kandra find insulting. The real Oreseur from the epilogue was just as borderling condescending as the fake one.
The prophecy is right up there, too. Although, you find out the truth before Vin does, and it changes from a sudden shock to a race to see if Sazed can stop her before she gives the power away. If the first we'd have known for sure something was wrong was when we read "I...AM...FREEEEEE!" That would really have floored everyone. Don't get me wrong, I actually preferred it the way it was written. Tensoon was just more surprising to me than finding out the Well was evil.
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Well, if it's surprise we're going for, I would have to agree with HoA. Marsh's return was completely unexpected. Had I known how Inquisitors were made—in book 1—I wouldn't have been so taken. However, I had almost no knowledge of the process until after Marsh showed up.
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There was some foreshadowing about TenSoon, just it was pretty much undetectable unless you know what happens in the end. When Vin first meet's him, he says he forgot to tell her that it would take so long to duplicate all the hair, but he did tell her. Also this isn't really foreshadowing, but it's kind of a hint,, when Vin asks him if he knows who the traitor kandra personally he says he probably knows him very well. I still think the prophecy betrayed is the most unexpected, how were we supposed to know that everything Vin has been working to up unitl this point is a sham??
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The Prophecy being manipulated was actually very fully foreshadowed, in my opinion. Things that Sazed says he remembers, that are missing or not correct when looked at again. I was most definitely not as surprised by that as I was by TenSoon/Orseur.
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Well, I figured it out at the very end, when Sazed see's the mist spirit, but until then, I didn't really figure get it, I just thought it was wierd that Kwaan talked about the Holy First Witness, and I hadn't noticed that before. I thought there was something wrong, but I didn't think the whole thing about giving up the power would be wrong, I mean, it seemed like such a good thing to do.
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Definitely Marsh showing back up from the dead... that was seriously unexpected.
However, the best surprise was when Elend suddenly turned into a Mistborn. Majorly cool.
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I am glad this thread has been so well received thus far. It shows how different people can look at the same scenario and pick out completely different aspects of it. It also reminds me how good EUOL seems to be at hiding things in plain sight. You are so busy enjoying the story, you almost forget to try to figure out what is happening. EVIL! :)
I think you are right about Marsh's return. I was completely surprised by that, as well. Should I add The Lord Ruler's identity to the poll? How about finding out Shan was Mistborn? Any others I might have missed?
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I didn't think the lordruler's identity was as much of a big twist to me personally because he wasn't a character in the novel's actual timeline really - Tensoon was more of a wolf among the sheep type of twist, and I wouldn't consider the fact that there was some foreshadowing about him as lessening the twistyness - it was just laying the suports for it to be a logical plot twist.
I hope people understand what I'm trying to say - you know, the LR twist was kind of like 'Well I didn't really know him that solidly as a character in the first place...' type of thing so it didn't shockprise me as much.
And yes, I couldn't choose between "Suprise" and "shock" just then so yes, I compromised.
On that earlier sentiment as well, Marsh's return also wasn't as suprising because knowledge on Steel Inquisitors was also always kind of sketchy.
Actually, one thing that felt like more of a big twist thing the "Things written in metal cannot be trusted" thing.
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Another twist that should be adde maybe is the Zane is not Insane twist, and the spike thing
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Oh, Zane still is a raving Zaniac. It's just not all in his head. ;)
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Well, if you spent most of your life hearing a voice that told you to kill everyone, you would probably go a little batty, too. That was a good twist, but I think it fits in with the overall Prophecy twist. It is another clue to how Ruin is manipulating Hemallurgy and Feruchemy.
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Also, what about the Reen never really betrayed Vin twist. It's not really that important to the plot, but it is the Vin's character, because Reen's betrayal has stayed with her for some time.
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Oh, Zane still is a raving Zaniac. It's just not all in his head. ;)
Score one point for Zane. ;D
Speaking of Zane, I might add his death to the list of surprises. I was definitely not expecting him to be killed so quickly. He was set up as such a fascinating character and then just cut off in his character development prime. Major bummer, that one.
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I know, I was actually looking forward to when Vin was going to run off with Zane, but nope, she saw thorugh everything before that, and went and got married to elend, darn nice guy.
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Apparently, I'm the only one who didn't like Zane. I've never liked him. He just... annoys me.
The Prophecy is surprising because of it's implications. We all knew something was up with it, we just didn't know exactly what it was. When Ruin finally freed himself... then it was a total "Oh my god" moment. At least, in my opinion.
The Lord Ruler's identity was sort of the same way. The back of the MB1 paperback kept saying that the prophecized hero lost to darkness... but then he never did, just some other dude killed him. It was an extremely awesome plot twist.
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Yeah, Zane's death was suprising. Oh, poor, insane-and-hear-voices Zane, I loveded him so...
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I agree with Chaos about the Lord Ruler's Identity and the Prophecy betrayed thing. Another interesting twist, thought not vey important plot wise might be the straff is addicted, and it's amantra, not Zane, who did it to him twist.
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I agree with Chaos about the Lord Ruler's Identity and the Prophecy betrayed thing. Another interesting twist, thought not vey important plot wise might be the straff is addicted, and it's amantra, not Zane, who did it to him twist.
I kinda liked that twist from MB2 too. Pretty funny that he didn't trust many people but the one that he trusted more than most was the one who did him in.
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I don't think it was trust as much as it was hubris. Straff was far too arrogant to believe one of his Skaa mistresses would try to harm him, mostly because they knew he would kill them, which is exactly what happened. Vin killed Straff, not the poison. It is one of the most visual parts of the story. It is so easy for me to imagine this little spec fly through the air, slowly taking Vin's shape as it moves closer, giving Straff just enough time to realize he is screwed before she splits him like a puddin'.
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I really like that part too, I also liked the part where Elend's in the tent and Vin is listening outside, and the way she soothes his emotions all away terrifies Straff. I think most people were cheering when he died. He was quite the villain.
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That was like, the best part in MB2.
I would like to mention that on the poll itself, it is slightly misleading, because "Lord Ruler's identity" wasn't up there when I voted. If it was, I surely would have gone for that over "The Prophecy Betrayed".
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I don't know, I don't think I would change my vote, the Lord Ruler thing was big, but the whole Prophecy thing still thorws me for a loop, I knew there was something wrong, but not that everything was false.
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i have to say that i actually saw the reappearance of Marsh coming a mile away, and the forshadowing was indeed there. in the beginning where Sazed wakes up to find Marsh missing, i knew from then on he was going to reappear at some point later on in the book at an "unexpected" time. then at some point in the book, i'm not sure exactly where off the top of my head, Elend is dealing with the problems of the city and one of his assistants informs him of a lone Inquisitor lurking around Kredik Shaw. of course, it was Marsh.
after that when Vin finished fighting the koloss at the gate and went to the top of Kredik shaw to look over the burning city i honestly half expected Marsh to show up and for there to be a battle between them two.
I have to say the 3 best twists (there are so many it's hard to choose) would be the LR's identity, the revealing of the kandra spy, and the prophesy.
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i have to say that i actually saw the reappearance of Marsh coming a mile away, and the forshadowing was indeed there. in the beginning where Sazed wakes up to find Marsh missing, i knew from then on he was going to reappear at some point later on in the book at an "unexpected" time.
The reappearance of Marsh is from MB1 not MB2. If you recall everyone thought Marsh was discovered and tortured to death for the information on the crew and its plans. Then he pops up in Kredik Shaw as a Steel Inquisitor and pulls out the connection spike from the other SIs.