Timewaster's Guide Archive
General => Everything Else => Topic started by: Comfortable Madness on January 24, 2008, 06:11:17 PM
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I think I'm going to have to go with Rand on this one. For one he's taveren, things will happen just right for him to win, maybe. Two, he is a Blademaster by trial-by-fire, for beheading the High Lord. Above all else he is absoulutely fearless. Oh and by the way he is the freakin Dragon Reborn!.....
Now that I look at the choices I think Drizzt is automatically disqualified unless he uses different swords. This is supposed to be a straight up sword fight and his blades are magical....
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I selected Other - Westley from The Princess Bride. Not sure why . . . he's the one that came first to mind.
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Madmartigan. He is, after all, the "greatest swordsman that ever lived."
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All of the candidates seem to have magical blades, so if you disqualify Drizzt, you have to pick a whole new lineup.
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Actually, nothing anywhere states that Andúril is magical. It is certainly a family heirloom, but that's hardly the same thing.
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Rand can whip anyone magical blade, normal blade, or wooden stick. And has used all three.
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I always Anduril to be magical. It's not explicitly stated, but then again, Tolkien's version of magic is always somewhat mysterious and vague. For instance, in the Hobbit, it is said that Gandalf always seemed to just appear places, but it wasn't clarified whether it was through magic, or just craft. I remember something about Anduril and Aiglos together being an unbeatable combination of weapons. Again, it's up for interpretation, maybe Tolkien just meant that Gil-Galad and Elendil were that skilled at wielding them, but I always took Anduril to be more than just an heirloom.
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Actually, nothing anywhere states that Andúril is magical. It is certainly a family heirloom, but that's hardly the same thing.
For the non-magical category I'd want to add a few others to the poll:
John Carter
Fafhrd
The Grey Mouser
Conan
And I suppose we should give the women a chance as well -
Red Sonja
If magical blades are allowed then I'm going with Elric of Melnibone.
But if magic sword is okay what about magic user with blades? Can't we include Vin? Could any of them compete with her?
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I'm gonna have to say it is a purely a sword fight. No magical blades and no magic used by the fighter. In which case Vin wouldn't probably stand a chance against any of the other characters mentioned here. I still have to say when it comes down to pure skill with a sword Rand beats anyone. Furthermore even if anyone wanted to use magic against Rand I'm pretty sure they would lose there too. He can just level an the entire continent said person is on with balefire and call it a day.
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I love Vin, really I do. She rocks. But I have to agree with Comfortable Madness, if we pull out all the stops and bring magic into it, it is even less of a contest. I've never seen as much sheer earth-shattering power as Rand has. I wouldn't want to be on his bad side.
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I always Anduril to be magical. It's not explicitly stated, but then again, Tolkien's version of magic is always somewhat mysterious and vague. For instance, in the Hobbit, it is said that Gandalf always seemed to just appear places, but it wasn't clarified whether it was through magic, or just craft. I remember something about Anduril and Aiglos together being an unbeatable combination of weapons. Again, it's up for interpretation, maybe Tolkien just meant that Gil-Galad and Elendil were that skilled at wielding them, but I always took Anduril to be more than just an heirloom.
My conclusion from reading the Silmarilion was that Anduril was magical. The elves had great craft and would pour some of their being into the things that they made, which is the technique that Sauron tricked them into teaching him in order to forge the One Ring. It was also the technique responsible for the creation of the Silmarils, which could not be duplicated by the Valar and were even powerful enough to become vitally important in the battle against Morgoth. Therefore Anduril would be a magical blade. At least it is if my memory is correct, I read the book back in fifth grade.
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If we're discounting magic and magic swords then I'm still going to give this fight to anyone wielding a lightsaber. Mace Windu would demolish anyone else on this list simply because his sword (powered technologically, not magically) would disarm anyone else on the list in the very first clash.
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A Lightsaber isn't technically a sword. It's a beam of condensed plasma held together, probably by magnetism. It's reminiscent of a sword, but it isn't a sword. Just like a Killer Whale is reminiscent of a whale, but is really a type of dolphin.
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Which adds even more irony considering they like to kill dolphins.
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Saying that a lightsaber isn't a sword is being far too restrictive with your definition of "sword." It's made out of light instead of metal; big deal. It looks like a sword, you use it like a sword, it's a sword.
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Maybe we have to give it to you and allow lightsabers to be classified as a sword but this is about skill with a sword. Yes, you're correct, upon first contact the duel would be over because Jedi Windu's lightsaber would disarm his opponent but that has nothing to do with his ability as a swordsman. Which is what this discussion is about.
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If we're discounting magic and magic swords then I'm still going to give this fight to anyone wielding a lightsaber. Mace Windu would demolish anyone else on this list simply because his sword (powered technologically, not magically) would disarm anyone else on the list in the very first clash.
Hey if Mace can use his lightsaber, then Rand can use his magic power-wrought blade. In that case the lightsaber would be no advantage and I STILL think Rand would win. :)
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Loud G, me and you are always on the same page in this matter....
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Which means either you're right, or you're both wrong. :)
I don't know, personally Gaborn or Raj Ahten from the Runelords would probably be the best swordsmen. With their endowments they would be virtually unstoppable, and neither of their swords were magical.
Outside of fantasy though I personally know some pretty intense swordsmen, and I'm sure they could win against several fictional ones.
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Why is everyone so high up on Rand when he can't beat Lan? He also lost to that Tairen dude who has his little rebel army outside of Tear. Remember when the fog started killing people? That's when Cadsuane slapped Rand for using balefire. I would put Lan up there over Rand, unless it has to be the main character. Anyway, I choose Duncan Macleod. He would befriend Mace Windu and ask him for a lightsabre, and then he would be unstoppable! :P
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He also lost to that Tairen dude who has his little rebel army outside of Tear
Hey wait a minute Rand was injured during the fight with Toram Riatin, who is a blademaster not just some Tairen dude. I also believe that he has surpassed Lan in sword fighting abilities. Rand is obsessed with the use of the sword and has never stopped training at it. He pays the best swordsman in towns to battle groups of them at once. While Lan is a legendary swordsman in his own right if I were to place a bet on a duel between them I'm taken Rand.
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I know Toram is a blademaster, I just couldn't remember his name. Besides, I would'nt take Rand now, he only has one hand!
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Good point. I like to forget that that ever happened. Although, a one-handed Rand is as good as most other two-handed swordsmen.
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If we are really going to excise all magic and magic-esque technology from this scenario, then all swordsmen who traditionally rely on magic or technology will be too handicapped to go on. It's like the die-hard WoW players who use thirty custom hot keys--force them to play without them and they wouldn't know what to do or how to do it. The only reasonable winner in a contest that bans all magic is a swordfighter who has never relied on it to begin with, which leaves (arguably) none of the choices in this poll, and very few of the suggested alternatives. Wesley from the Princess Bride would count, Madmartigan would probably count, along with several of Aen's suggestions like John Carter, Conan, and Red Sonja.
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I would add Zatoichi to the mix. He whooped a$$, and he was blind!
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I would just like to point out that Matrim Cauthon, from the WoT series(I may be a tad biased when it comes to this series), would beat any TWO of these people mentioned above, with the Ashendarei...
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And Indiana Jones could just shoot them. Unfortunately, this is about sword fighting ability. To respond to your point, though, Lan could take him.
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It'd just be mean of Rand to use Callandor or that fire blade thing he does sometimes, that and it would obliterate any resistance to his Dragony wonderfulness... He is by far the best swordsman out of the list and any mentioned thusfar.
Honestly, Mace Windu is cool, but Rand could whip him in a fight sooooo easily. Jedi train to use the force along with lightsabers (which have significantly different tactical implications that swords), and would get his colon stomped so fast in a no-powers fight against Rand.
I really think that Lan ought to be on the list if Aragorn is though, because the King of Malkier could totally slam him into the ground, probably without breaking a sweat. I mean seriously, Lan v. Aragorn, no contest, at all.
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To respond to your point, though, Lan could take him
Not a chance darxbane. Back when Mat beat Galad and Gawyn, Hammar tells all the warders in training that the best swordsman of all time lost once in his whole lifetime and that was to a farmer with a staff. Mat, by the way, is not just some farmer so Mat would win hands down.....
Avalon I agree with you 100%.
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You are missing the point of the lesson. Galad and Gawyn understimated Mat. They were taken by surprise, and were defeated before they could recover. Plus Gawyn and Galad were not near the ability of Lan or Rand (although Galad is much closer now). In New Spring, Lan takes on 6 people at once in a real fight and wins. Rand has been unable to defeat 5 at once in practice, and I don't think Mat has faced that many at once. Oh, and Rand needed Moiraine's help to beat Ba'laal in book three. He was getting whooped.
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You are missing the point of the lesson. Galad and Gawyn understimated Mat. They were taken by surprise, and were defeated before they could recover. Plus Gawyn and Galad were not near the ability of Lan or Rand (although Galad is much closer now). In New Spring, Lan takes on 6 people at once in a real fight and wins. Rand has been unable to defeat 5 at once in practice, and I don't think Mat has faced that many at once. Oh, and Rand needed Moiraine's help to beat Ba'laal in book three. He was getting whooped.
I'm pretty sure you missed the point here. Hammar told them that because the sword does not match up well against against the staff and if my memory serves me right he says something along those lines. Also, it's true Galad and Gawyn were not at there full potential then but neither was Mat AND he was recovering from the effects of the ruby hilted dagger. As for Be'laal, talk about not being up to potential yet that was in book three and once again against a superior oppenent Rand held his own. Getting whooped I don't think so. If he was getting whooped Be' laal would have had an oppening to kill him. I still got Mat and Rand over Lan one on one....
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I love how you all keep talking about Rand's cool magic powers and/or magic swords, and then suggest that he could still hold his own in a depowered fight. I'm not buying it. Anyone who relies on magic is going to be gimped when that magic is taken away, leaving the non-magic fighters as the ultimate winners.
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Actually, Rand doesn't use the power to fight. He can make a sword using the power, but most of the swordfighting in WoT is skill against skill. I still believe that Mat won because of his luck combined with Gawyn and Galad's overconfidence and their fear of hurting someone so "ill". We will agree to disagree here, I guess.
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Fair enough darxbane.
I love how you all keep talking about Rand's cool magic powers and/or magic swords, and then suggest that he could still hold his own in a depowered fight. I'm not buying it. Anyone who relies on magic is going to be gimped when that magic is taken away, leaving the non-magic fighters as the ultimate winners.
I'm in disagreement with your theory as well. Just because someone CAN use powers doesn't automatically make them weaker in unpowered abilities. Also, on the flipside just because you can only use unpowered fighting styles doesn't automatically make you a superior fighter in such abilities. That just doesn't make sense. I get that they may be more focused on it because that is all they can do but they just may not have the raw abilitiy to be as good as say someone like Rand. No matter how hard an inferior swordsman practices to be the best he will never be because he just doesn't have the natural abilities that another may have...
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Rand is downright the best, even if just for the fact that he has the hundreds of years of experience from Kinslayer to draw from. On top of that though, he was trained by the best of the Warders and has serious power bumps from being Bonded (which he would still smash every one even if he didn't), and I bet that from all of the crap that he's taken from life, all the accumulated wounds and tortures and various pains, he could walk out there, take any hit they could hope to deal to him, and he would STILL turn around and smite them where they stood in all of their insolence.
(really wanted to use the word insolence in a post ^^)
He doesn't use the power to sword-fight, not in a very long time, or unless he's fighting another channeler. Heck, we saw him bash the 6 or w/e best swordsmen in Caemlyn that one time, among many other incredibly awesome feats of uber awesomeness.
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Maybe I should phrase this a different way:
It's 1987, and your friend challenges you to a game of Super Mario Bros. on his NES. You accept, because you're awesome at Super Mario Bros.--you play that game all the time, and you're awesome at it because you have a Game Genie: you can slow it down for tricky parts, you can hit turbo to blast through the easy parts, and you can hit turn on super jumping power to go where no other player has gone before. The trouble is, when you get to your friend's house, he doesn't have a Game Genie. You're going to have to play the entire thing with a suite of abilities you're thoroughly unfamiliar with, because you haven't played the standard version of the game in years. Every button you hit does something slightly different than you expect it to. I think we can all agree that in that situation, no matter good you are with a Game Genie, you're going to suck without one.
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But Rand doesn't use the Power to sword fight... He's explicitly practiced so that he can use it in situations where it wouldn't be usable, like in Far Madding.
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It's 1987, and your friend challenges you to a game of Super Mario Bros. on his NES. You accept, because you're awesome at Super Mario Bros.--you play that game all the time, and you're awesome at it because you have a Game Genie: you can slow it down for tricky parts, you can hit turbo to blast through the easy parts, and you can hit turn on super jumping power to go where no other player has gone before. The trouble is, when you get to your friend's house, he doesn't have a Game Genie. You're going to have to play the entire thing with a suite of abilities you're thoroughly unfamiliar with, because you haven't played the standard version of the game in years. Every button you hit does something slightly different than you expect it to. I think we can all agree that in that situation, no matter good you are with a Game Genie, you're going to suck without one.
Awesome! I love the analogy! Although, my point is that even though I do use the Game Genie alot I also play without it alot. So, not only am I ultra badass with the Game Genie but I'll still whoop anyone without it because I am superior in the art of Super Mario Bros. So, no matter how much you've played without Game Genie your still going to get beatdown....
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He doesn't use the power to sword-fight, not in a very long time, or unless he's fighting another channeler. Heck, we saw him bash the 6 or w/e best swordsmen in Caemlyn that one time, among many other incredibly awesome feats of uber awesomeness.
It was only 5, and he was "killed" by the 5th one (hit on the head), even though he also inflicted a killing blow on the last opponent. Rand has also never beaten Lan when they spar, and also lost to Toram Riatin when he snuck into his camp outside Tear. If Rand can't beat other blademasters in his own world, how can we even compare him to other main characters? Lan, on the other hand, fought 5 swordsmen at once in an actual battle and was unscathed (New Spring). In fact, we have yet to see Lan even get touched in the entire series. Not even a scratch!
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I'll agree that the lost king of Malkier could top any of them, but Rand was the best on the list. It's been a while since my last read-through (waiting until the announce of the release date for aMoL), and I totally forgot that he lost to Raitin... that and I confused him with Galad in my head for a second (you know, when he totally emasculated Valda?).
Lan has been wounded before, though I don't think we ever saw it happen. There was right after he lost Moraine, he walked into Myrelle's (wasn't it Myrelle?) camp and was scratched up and such, right on the verge of dying. Think we could get Lan added to the list? I'd vote for him...
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asking who would win in a sword fight between rand and LAN is like asking who would win in a real fight between segal and vandam. the answer to this one is chuck Norris. in sword fighting terms that's drizzt do'urden. with drizzt's skill and speed with two blades he would win every time in a fight with rand or LAN. also he doesn't always use the magic of his blades very rarely does this come into play, he doesn't even always use his anklets take his last battle with enteri for instance. he won fair and square with no magic.
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Me.
Don't ask why. Thats just my answer...
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Denth. Unless we're bringing in Madmartigan or Wesley. All are ridiculously skilled without using magic. And I agree with Fell that magic users would be gimped without their magic. Even if they tried not to use it all the time.
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Honestly it has to be Drizzt. I am aware that Rand is supposed to be good but he learned as he went and his training hasnt been all that long. Ok he is a Blade Master but Drizzt has been trained in an Evil arena/Military training school since he was fairly young. Not only was he the best of his race but there was never another opponent that could best him in his travels since. Even Entreri without magic.
Also if it wasnt Drizzt it would be Richard Rhal seeing how he practically takes on armies of soldiers on multiple occasions and that could be with or without his magic. Im just saying.
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Ahh...I've missed this thread.
Mean/Green
I definately could see Richard Rahl being a good choice here. However, I made this poll before reading Wizards First Rule. I think its funny how both Rand and Richard both find the some sort of "void" before engaging in combat. I really don't think that there is a wrong answer here. It's all opinion and bias but makes for a fun debate.
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Agreed, good poll. I didnt mean to go my own way I just thought I would post who else would be good for the poll. Drizzt is probably the winner in any case.
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I chose other because I could think of so many others who could win the sword fight. Bastille or Draulin Crystin (Alcatraz), Edmund or Peter (Narnia) so I can think of lots of people who could win because I tend to read books with swords and warriors.
Bastille
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What about the Paolini characters? Eragon? Murtagh? Galbatorix? The elves? An elf like Oromir might be able to win, 'cause elves have superhuman strength, speed, reactions, reflexes…basically everything you need to kill stuff. In "Eldest," you saw how easily Eragon's sparring partner (elf dude, forget his name :)) destroyed him every time, even though he was trained by the best (Brom). And what about Galbatorix? We've never read of him fighting, but c'mon, he's gotta be pretty beastly.
From the list, though, I'd have to go with Rand. I mean, come on. He defeated Ishamael, the super-evil-destroyer-of-hope-who-is-tight-with-the-Dark-One-and-has-had-millenia-to-practice-sword-fighting (alright, he basically committed suicide to do it, but still! he tricked him!).
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Do me a favor and read anything that R.A. Salvatore has written about Drizzt D'oUrden and then get back to me. I know there are others who are supposed to be amazing and the best but after reading like 15 books about Drizzt and his abilities I would be hard pressed to think anyone could best him. That includes Rand and anyone else I have ever read about.
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Do me a favor and read anything that R.A. Salvatore has written about Drizzt D'oUrden and then get back to me. I know there are others who are supposed to be amazing and the best but after reading like 15 books about Drizzt and his abilities I would be hard pressed to think anyone could best him. That includes Rand and anyone else I have ever read about.
The only Salvatore book I've ever read is the first book in the Hunter's Blade Trilogy, Thousand Orcs. While Drizzt was bad ass in that book I don't think you will ever be able to sway me away from voting Rand but you could vote for any of these characters mentioned previously and not be wrong. However, if I'm facing my death at the hands of some brilliant swordsman and can only choose one of these characters to defend my life I'm going with Rand. Rand is a ruthless fighter and will win no matter the cost to himself. Rand ftw
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And, to add to what Madness said, when Rand goes into the Void he burns up all his emotions–including fear. So you freakin chop him up with a buzz saw and as long as he was still alive he'd keep going. Oh, and also…the fate of the entire human world as you know it is a pretty big incentive to win the freakin swordfight.
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I mean I guess burning emotions like fear is a good thing but not having fear is a bonus then. Also you could say those same exact things about Richard Rahl. In every way he is almost the same as Rand if not better. But I still think Drizzt would win.
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One more thing to consider: Rand is perfectly willing to sacrifice himself in order to get the other guy. So he could just do the 'Sheathe the Sword' thing or whatever it's called and kill the guy.
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Yeah I know what your saying. I just think that if you have read the Sword of Truth you would agree that Rand and Richard are probably a match for eachother. In more ways than one they are similar characters. Richard is just like an older more experienced man than Rand is. Also Drizzt has been fighting since he was like 10 in a military training school ran by dark elves who as a race take pride in their fighting abilities. They are the best fighters in their world and he is the best among them. He came in first in their arena and has bested every adversary he has faced. Although Rand beats him with being able to forget his emotions with the void Drizzt uses his emotions to fuel his fighting. Also Richard uses the very same void when he fights but he also uses anger to fuel his fighting. Even though Richard and Rand would be an epic battle I still think that given the history of Drizzt that he would win. I mean Rand hasn't been a fighter his whole life. That is who Drizzt is.
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I agree with the notion that Rand would lose 'cause he hasn't been fighting his whole life, but…a couple of points. (1) It's in his blood, (2) he was trained by the best (Lan), and he HAS been perfecting his use of the Void since he was a child–Tam tought it to him and he used it for archery. But you're probably right nonetheless. I also don't know the two characters you say could best him, so my opinion isn't worth much.
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I wasn't trying to prove you wrong. I was only expressing my opinion that he could be bested. I know he was trained by the best but so are a lot of other characters. If you don't know Drizzt I recommend the Icewind Dale Trilogy by R.A. Salvatore. Its part of the Forgotten Realms. Good starting point if your looking for a fun read. There are a lot of other books involving Drizzt but that's the best starting point. Also give Wizards First Rule a shot by Terry Goodkind if you wanna read about a character like Rand.
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OK, I hear you. My mistake.
Thanks, I'll try to get around to those (although I have a lot of unread books lying around my room now–that's basically all my relatives give me for occasions).