Timewaster's Guide Archive
Local Authors => Brandon Sanderson => Topic started by: Shuez on September 24, 2007, 10:17:37 PM
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Hello Brandon,
In the chapter one annotation you state: "...in order to have a fight, I need to explain Allomancy."
Now, is it a hardline rule that when writing fantasy fiction across multiple books, that the author needs to go back an explain the basic inner-workings of their world? Is is wrong to just pickup where you left off in the last book? Is this a publishing rule to pander the individuals that are odd enough to NOT begin with book one in a series?
I am really curious about this; sometimes I wish an author would skip the reintroductions of everything. It is also important to me as a author, since I have yet to write any of the planned sequels to my current novels.
Thank you in advance.
http://www.brandonsanderson.com/anno.php?book=Mistborn%202&id=186
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I can't speak for Brandon's reasons, but for me as a reader and as an editor, those little catchups are cues for readers that haven't picked up the last book in several months to a year or two. It's the little reminders of "wait, who was this person again?" For the person who rereads all the previous books in a series before picking up the next one, this is annoying, but for those of us who don't have time to do that, it makes a big difference in jumping back into the story.
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I remember back when EUOL was starting to write MB2 he and I got into a discussion about how best to do this and I said my preferred method was the way Fiest does it, which is a separate section that reintroduces everything so you can read that or skip over it and not have to worry about wasted time, however I think he went with the method that he did because he was worried that people wouldn't read that and be confused later one.
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I remember back when EUOL was starting to write MB2 he and I got into a discussion about how best to do this and I said my preferred method was the way Fiest does it, which is a separate section that reintroduces everything so you can read that or skip over it and not have to worry about wasted time, however I think he went with the method that he did because he was worried that people wouldn't read that and be confused later one.
I think I have seen this before. Are you talking about a few pages in the very beginning that is not the prologue; basically a "the story so far..." ? That is an interesting way of doing it also.
I appreciate your points as well Stacer; it gives me something to think about.
Thanks for your input Stacer and Spriggan. :)
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My take on it is thus:
One of the big draws to the Mistborn series is the magic. The Allomantic fight scenes are great because of how interesting the magic is. I don't tend to like straight-up fighting. There has to be something interesting about a fight scene--what's going on, what it's doing to the character, how the magic and setting is interacting--to make it fun for me to write.
In the Mistborn books, then, the fun of the fights is understanding what the Allomancer can do and being interested in how they manipulate their powers. So, in order to have a fight work the way I want, the reader needs a refresher on the magic system.
I don't think there's a hardfast rule on this or anything. It's just what I felt I needed to do.
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I like that idea Brandon, with the magic system, but how do you cue the main plot without being obvious or boring about it? I ironically just had this conversation with another writer friend, and we basically said "screw the reader if they don't bother reading the first book." I mean who reads from the second book, or third without reading the first ones? :) or re-reads the first books if they forget? that's the whole point? haha, no but seriously, i get that readers are lazy, but I can't help but hold that attitude that if the reader doesn't have a working knowledge of the story, they should re-read the first book that i wrote to explain all that!
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It's a fine balance. I read for a living, for example. I don't have the time to reread every book. So when I got to read MB2 in an early form, it had been at least 2 years since I'd read MB1, and there were things that I couldn't remember. How does this work? Who is this character? etc. So adding the little cues--not a rehash, but a verbal cue--makes a big difference to a reader like me. I'm not lazy, and I read the first book. I also just happen to be spending a lot of time reading other things.
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I think that's one reason why I like the "Summary" page idea so much. Nothing expansive. Just something to jog my memory as to what has happened before and get things going. I agree with the idea that people shouldn't start reading series in the middle, but it still happens. If they do this, then they deserve to be confused. If, however, you have already read the prior books, the summary page works well. I'd probably be sure to put it at the beginning of the book though. Before any of the new story starts. That way if someone wants to read it, they can do so before starting the book. This helped me out a ton when reading The Prince of Nothing series. And, once I finished reading Well of Ascension I found the summary page at the end and wished that it had been at the beginning instead. My thoughts...for what they're worth.
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We have "story so far" pages in most of our manga books, since the stories never take time to reintroduce characters and themes. However, I don't think this is something that would go over well with most more standard fiction—it can be seen as cutting corners.
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So you can either stuff the first couple of chapters of your books with little reminders about the back-story, which forces the avid reader to wade through them but are nice to have for the casual reader, or you can put those details in a "the story so far" section in the front of the book, making it available for the casual reader but not forcing the avid reader to wade through them. Heck, you could use the space and effort you save by not working those little reminders into the story to move the story along faster and provide new details that make the world richer.
Whether I am reading a series avidly or just picking up the next one after a year or two, I would prefer the "story so far" approach. If I don't need it, I can skip it.
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I'm quite an avid reader. So avid, in fact, that I can't keep different books straight half the time because I'm reading so much. So I don't think the avid/casual breakdown really works in this situation.
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plus how many people re-read all books in a series when a new one comes out? Most books are released a year apart and there's a lot to forget even if you still remember the jist of it.
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And really, the idea of a "story-so-far" page would only work for those series of mild length, say trilogy at the max. I can only shudder at how long such a page might be for say...book 12 of the Wheel of Time. Wow.
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all good points, though i guess i feel that stacers situation is more of a unique one. Most readers IMO (call me a liar if its true) will focus on a few series that they really enjoy at a time, probably no more than 10. I, personally always re-read books, i really enjoy doing so, and it almost feels as if the cues would be automatic or part of writing in itself if you have truly built a unique world. but that's just me. If i had to lean to any side, i might have to go with the story thus far approach though. *shrugs*
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I'm quite an avid reader. So avid, in fact, that I can't keep different books straight half the time because I'm reading so much. So I don't think the avid/casual breakdown really works in this situation.
True. I was more using "avid" and "casual" to stand in for "remembers perfectly well what went on in the last book" and "doesn't remember what went on in the last book" Bad choice of words on my part I guess.
And really, the idea of a "story-so-far" page would only work for those series of mild length, say trilogy at the max. I can only shudder at how long such a page might be for say...book 12 of the Wheel of Time. Wow.
I didn't picture the story-so-far approach being used to help someone who has not read the previous books, but instead only as a reminder of where exactly the characters ended up in the last book for someone who has forgotten the fine details.
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I think having information come out naturally is a goal of writers. It's much better, for example, to have the reader learn that gold-worked items are a major export of Minetown by seeing characters admire a gold-foiled box from that exotic place than to outright state "the economy of Minetown relied, in great part, on its fine gold exports. The people in Laketown greatly adored their excellent foil work, and therefore were eager to trade for..."
When there's so much to explain in speculative fiction, I try my best to leave explanations out, and let the scenes and characters do their work. I think most of us invent more information in world-building than is relevant to the story, and a lot of this never makes it (directly) into the story. I try to cut that unnecessary information, so the story can shine. To make sure I'm not leaving holes in my happy revisions, I have other people read it (surprise). They usually only come back with a question or two. I fill those holes in, and let the rest stand.
I think you could do the same thing with a sequel, if you're trying to minimize back-story a lot. Write it like you assume the reader remembers the story well. Have some people read the sequel who haven't read the first book, and see what they found confusing. Add extra bits of dialogue or a sentance of exposition here or there for those parts, and let the other ones stand. I've never tried this for a sequel (I can't write sequels), and it might not work for you, but it's an idea.
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Wow, this just stepped into territory that I've been thinking about lately... and not very lately.
Number one thing I want to know, why in the world would you start reading the second book in a series without reading the first? I mean, it's like picking up a book and starting in the middle (ok, not quite). I don't think there's any reason to try to accomodate for someone who hasn't bothered to read the first, just focus on those who have.
As for the whole recap conversation, I think I sit on both boats. I've never actually reread a book, but sometimes I'll read a book, and the next one is already out so I go pick it up, and am almost driven crazy from having to read about everything I've just read. But I've also had to wait a while for books to come out, and so the recaps remind me of things I've deffinitely forgotten.
I think the best thing is to give recaps, but not to over due it. Keep it short and simple, readers will remember with a small reminder.
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I think the best thing is to give recaps, but not to over due it. Keep it short and simple, readers will remember with a small reminder.
I think if you read the Harry Potter books you'll find that Rowling got much better at recaping what had gone on before in the later books than how she did it in the first books. With books 2 & 3 there's a big info dump at everything in the past. Those info dumps (especially about Quidditch) are smaller and smoother in the later books.
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I'm actually dealing with these problems right now in two series I'm reading. The first is the Pendragon series by DJ McHale. This series has interdimentional travelers going to lots of different worlds (pretty much introducing one new world in each book). With the made up names of the worlds and people and things in the worlds, I'm having a hard time keeping them straight. In the latest book, a MAJOR plot point depends on me remembering details of a world from a book he published a year or two ago, and at first, I thought he was talking about a completely different world. There wasn't a summary of the various worlds in the book itself, and I didn't want to wait the two weeks it would take to order the book in to my library (I've bought the first five, but not the later ones -- there's just not room on my shelves for everything I'd like to own), so I went to Wikiedia, and refreshed my memory, but got hit with some pretty serious spoilers.
With Mistborn 2, I appreciated the refresher course on which allomantic metals did what, but still found myself wishing for a chart of what the allomantic and ferruchemical powers were. I found these (with some minor spoilers), where I expected them, in the BACK of the book (though I was surprised that the summary of book 1 was in the back of the book without any mention of it in the front -- say in a table of contents of some sort). I listen to a lot of books on tape, and Peter and I are reading this one aloud to each other, so it's almost the same experience. In audio format, you couldn't get to the tables and summaries in the back until you'd already finished the rest of the book, at which point they're moot, and many times they're left out entirely.
While reading Mistborn 2, I also found that my memory was very fuzzy about what had happened in the climax of #1. Brandon's climaxes are so action packed, and have so many twists and revelations, that I tend to rush through them and come out a little dazed at the other end. When he talks in book 2 about what Vin remembers about killing the Lord Ruler, I believed him, but I didn't remember several of those details myself. I eventually ended up re-reading the end of book 1 so that I could have some hope of piecing mysteries together at at least the same rate as the characters in the book (if not one step ahead).
So essentially, my opinion on this matter is that you should have reminders of the important details of the previous book in the current book. You should, as a writer of a fantasy series, be able to expect that your reader has read the previous book, but not that they'll remember everything important. I don't like infodumpy chapters with talking heads -- I tend to skim or skip those -- but characters should be reintroduced with a quick (one sentence or less) reminder of what their role/powers are, and "hard" magic systems should have their rules reviewed so that readers can keep pace with the characters.
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(though I was surprised that the summary of book 1 was in the back of the book without any mention of it in the front -- say in a table of contents of some sort).
I noticed that. Hopefully the people who want it will find it!
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Incredible. I did not think this topic would become so popular. The viewpoints and opinions I am gleaning from this thread is invaluable. Everyone, thank you for the insightful discussion!