Timewaster's Guide Archive
Departments => Books => Topic started by: origamikaren on July 23, 2007, 02:11:41 AM
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Don't say you weren't warned! Highlight below for spoilers (if I can get the right color -- otherwise stop reading now!!!
I mean it!!!
Really bad spoilers about to show up!!!
I got the book in the mail Saturday, and was finished by 10:30 pm. That was about 8 hours of reading (I generally average about 100 pgs per hour if you care). I've been sitting on it for more than 19 hours now, and nobody will talk to me about it because they're all so slow!!! I even dreamed about Harry Potter all nigh. At any rate, I thought that I could post here, and vent, and then people could respond when they get around to it which is better than nothing.
OK the spoilers are really starting now, so don't get mad at me.
[hide]I just want to say right off the bat that I was totally right about Snape. I'll agree that a lot of other people were too, but I just wanted to rub it in to all those people who thought, no--he has to be evil--he's been faking all along. There were just too many things forshadowing the final way things turned out, and I would have felt cheated if she'd made him altogether bad. (though I didn't guess how close he and Lily were at one point, or that Petunia had briefly wanted to attend Hogwarts)
Also-- Wow that book was a holocaust! She was killing people off left and right! Mad-Eye, Remus AND Tonks, Fred, Snape, Scrimgour, Bathilda Bagshot, not to mention the bad guys Voldemort, Pettigrew, etc...and that's just off the top of my head. There were plenty more mentioned. I didn't think she'd really kill off any of the top three -- Harry, Ron and Hermione, but I thought that Hagrid might be in danger, and I was pretty sure the Weasleys couldn't get off scot free.
I was surprised that the three didn't go back to Hogwarts for classes. I was sure she'd set it there, but I can see that in the world she set up for this one, they really couldn't have. It did make me wonder how they'll deal with the obviously stunted education everybody got -- or didn't get that year as the world moves on. Will they have a do-over year where all the mudbloods and muggle borns who were kicked out can make up what they missed? Will there be a special eighth year class? I realize that formal education was always kind of chancy in their world, but surely OWL's and NEWT's count for something (or why would they bother with them?), and there's a significant portion of the population that simply missed out (did they have ANY NEWT's that year?).
I did cry when Harry was going off to die and called up his parents and Sirius and Remus for support. It was so sad and noble. It's telling that he DIDN'T call up Dumbledore. At any rate, Harry has always been a Messianic Archetype, so I guess we knew it had to happen. It was comforting to know that the snake was still around, so it couldn't have been the end, so I figured he'd be back, but still... HE didn't.
I also thought it was interesting that Dumbledore defeated Grindenwald (sp? Peter's reading the book right now so I don't have it to check) in 1945. She's obviously telling us that he was the "real" evil behind the Nazis in WWII. She's obviously drawing parallels to the Nazi racism, facist dictatorship, police-state, etc in these books. I think that she's also trying to make a statement about our current troubles with terrorism, and that we shouldn't blindly accept what the media and/or government is telling us, and that we shouldn't allow ouselves to support anything resembling that kind of human rights abuse based simply on race. What do you think about her poitical agenda?
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OK I think that's all I have to say right now. I'm sure that I'll have opinions on whatever you think is important...so hurry up and read the book so we can discuss.
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changed the spoiler tags she was useing to Hide tags so you have to post in this tread to see what she posted, anyone else that wants to talk spoilers please use [hide ] as well.
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[hide]I really enjoyed the book. Took me about seven hours to read it, and I'd also like to hear what other people had to say. There were a couple of times in the book that I really was happy/sad for the characters--Rowling did a great job over the course of the series making these people seem real, and so when they made important decisions, I really felt it. I did feel that the explanation of the ending was kind of convoluted, but maybe it's because I was reading so fast by then. Her prose still came across as clunky now and then, but I don't read HP for gorgeous prose--I read it for the plot and characters and setting.
The little epilogue . . . not sure how I felt about that. It felt a tad too tacked on to me. I didn't need everything tied up THAT much, and I think I would have preferred to have it just end without the epilogue.
I was very pleased to see that she managed to make it a bloodbath--thus giving it the proper impact--but also managed to let the main three escape. That would have been really sad.
Anyway--now I'm reading it to my wife. I'm just relieved no one can spoil it for me. That was my big concern. I think this ending truly makes the series and completes it very justly. Thumbs up from me.[/hide]
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[hide]I thought the backstory given in Snape's memory was a great touch. It helped to flesh out not only the Snape/Potter dynamic, but also why Petunia so hated magic.
Some things that surprised me:
I expected the Malfoys to turn away from Voldemort after all he had put them through. Before the very end, I mean. When Harry was in their basement dungeon was the perfect opportunity.
I had reserved judgment on Snape for lack of evidence either way, but killing Dumbledore on his own orders? Wow.
Dumbledore's whole attitude on how to go about doing good.
There's other stuff, of course, I'm just trying to assimilate it all right now. I reread Half Blood Prince last week, and spent yesterday and today with Deathly Hallows. Good times.[/hide]
For the record, I think the [ hide ] thing is silly. If you read a thread with "spoilers" in the title, and don't think there will be spoilers, you're a git.
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I'll agree about that hide thing--it's a pain, and I don't think it's necessary. If this thread takes off, having to "hide" every comment is going to get old fast.
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The main reason for it is it Hides spoilers from the recent posts and RSS features, I'm not expecting every post in this thread to use the hide tag but for the first few days it's common courtesy on something this big.
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[hide]Well, of course I really liked and was really glad that Harry lived (and Ron and Hermione). It was cool to see them in 19 years, but they sounded so different at the end, I felt disconnected. I know, it'd been 19 years. Of course they would be way different, but I still felt disconnected.
I think with the NEWTs thing, since they can be homeschooled, I'm assuming they can also take the NEWTs without attending a school, so maybe they studied for a year with Hermione and took them the next year. Since Rowling didn't say their occupation, it'd be pretty hard to know if they needed it for what they decided to do. I have to say, though, that if Harry wanted to be an Auror, I have a feeling that they would let him into the training for it despite not having taken the NEWTs. I mean he defeated Voldemort afterall.
I was sad that Snape's Potions book likely got burned in the fire. His insights on Potion-making were brilliant and could really help Harry and others in the future. I was really glad he was redeemed and thought how it all worked out was wonderful. I don't see why he had to be SO mean to Harry that whole time. Snape should've just focused on Harry being Lily's son, rather than James's. But whatever.
I was so glad to see how both Ron and Neville stepped up to the plate and became leaders. Ron really grew out of his not having confidence in himself, which really made him a better match for Hermione. And Neville taking over at Hogwarts was brilliant! Esp. when he stood up to Voldemort after he thought Harry was dead and killed Nagini. Awesome!
I really liked how the final battle was at Hogwarts, where Harry feels most comfortable. I liked how the teachers immediately rallied around him and the students as well. I really felt that when he started the DA that they would one day be the ones standing behind him against Voldemort. He was creating strong allies when he did that. It was also cool how Neville was able to inform others to come to Hogwarts to help fight.
And of course when Harry came out of the invisibility cloak at the end, totally shocking everyone and giving hope to his allies, was just so cool. I LOVED that part. [/hide]
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I must admit, I lowered my expectations going into this book. I figured that there was no way it could live up to the hype. I was right, but I'm sure glad I only paid $17 for it. Holy Plot-Holes Batman!!
[hide]I was fine with the book until they go to Hogwarts. The pacing was great, and the settings were well described. Making the Horcruxes be like the One Ring was a little much for me, but whatever. The battles were chaotic and involved. Too bad that stopped happening at the end. There was that line during the final battle where it says that hundreds stood watching the duels...Are you freakin' kidding me? Never mind that thier whole future is at stake, and never mind that the people there stayed because they were old enough to fight. Nah, no sense in fighting when you can just watch. Lets have a 4-page scene of them circling like that rediculous "battle" in Pirates 3 while Harry tells us whats going on. While this happens, lets have Voldy get dumber and dumber to the point where he whines that Harry is a liar. And then lets have thier "duel" be one whole spell.
Oh, and lets just forget the line that Mrs. Weasley stole from Aliens. So glad he turned out to be an expert in dueling. It would have been much more fitting had she just tackled the dumb Death Eater.
The thing that was the worst was that death didnt matter in this book. In previous volumes, when death entered the picture, it was tragic, and it affected people. The "bloodbath" at the end doent even matter. The deaths of Dobby the house elf and Moody ended up being more important than the deaths of the main side characters. Members of the only true family Harry had die, and he decides he will have time to talk to them later. There was no major cost to Harrys victory. Nobody important died.
Teachers - so, who actually should have been the teachers in this series? The Death Eaters are continually getting pwned by students, only to then whup-up on the teachers at Hogwarts...the lesson? Take dueling classes from Luke Skywalker-errr excuse me - Harry Potter.
There are dozens of other things that bugged me, but I'm done ranting. To end on a more positive note, this series has done something remarkable - it got people reading. The series on the whole was pretty decent, and I'm glad that millions of people decided to read. I hope that this helps people continue to read in the future.[/hide]
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Care to elaborate on that statement?
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Does anyone have a good understanding of how the piece of Voldemort's soul left harry, and how exactly matching up the 3 Deathly Hallows affected things?
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[hide] it doesnt - the only thing important was that the cloak hide Harry through the whole series. It felt very midichlorians (spelling) from Lucas. [/hide]
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[hide] And now we know why Lily was so good at potions. :)[/hide]
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[hide]I basically love the heck out of this book. I have no problems at all with it, and I don't consider any of those things to be plot holes. (Well, the thestrals thing still bothers me, since this book made it clear that baby Harry was watching when Lily died. Maybe the death has to be understood in order for thestrals to be visible?)
This was the best book by far. Nonstop action. I thought it was very tight.
And about the 3 hallows: Harry never had all 3 in his possession at the same time, unless you count being master of the wand before physically touching it.
When he dropped the stone in the woods, I assumed he just dropped it in his pocket, until he specifically said later that he dropped it in the woods. Also, even if normal people didn't realize he had the 3 hallows, everyone knows he has/had the wand, and what wand it was. That makes him a target.[/hide]
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A few things I wanted to comment on:
1. Somebody mentioned clunky prose. As I've re-read the books this last couple weeks, and also read other people's comments, I've come to agree that the prose is often "clunky" I think that some of the later books could have been much more tightly plotted, and that there are whole sections where nothing important happens that should have been condensed or cut. I mean how many times do we have to see Ron and Hermione annoyed at each other, or Harry feeling teenagee angst while putting off or not being able to solve a mystery? Even while reading it the first time, there were parts when I felt like shouting, "Get on with it woman!!!"
2. Regarding Snape's Potions Book: Why didn't he write his own book? This one is at least 20 years old, and doesn't look like it has even been updated with a new edition. If he had that many ideas while he was taking the class himself, he must have similar revisions to make for the whole series. Failing that, he could have at least given out hints during lectures or lab setups. As it is, he's a particularly bad person to hire as a teacher if he won't even share the basic shortcomings of the textbook with the students he likes (the Slytherins).
3.Why can't he see Harry as Lily's son rather than James's? I think that if Harry had ended up in Slytherin, Snape might've had a chance of seeing him that way. As it was Harry looked so much like James, and very early on was involved in a) a rivalry with Malfoy b) playing quidditch, I think that even Harry's eyes became a liability to him reminding Snape of how much he'd lost, and who he saw as taking her from him. I think he blamed James for not being able to protect her, and Harry for being the reason Voldemort went there in the first place. He was doing what he could against Voldemort -- which was taking a huge toll on him emotionally, There was no more he could do against James, but he could make sure Harry suffered for his part in Snape's pain, and for continually reminding him of it.
4. I think that Neville's character arc is one of the very best in the series. As early as book 1, he tries, and is rewarded for, bravely standing up for what's right. He has as much reason as Harry to want to fight Voldemort (maybe more since he's had to live with the damage to his parents all these years). Growing up in his house could not have been fun with everyone scaring the magic out of him. Yet in each book he slowly finds ways to succeed: focusing on what he's good at, and working really hard at the rest. Once he started getting having real success at difficult spells with teh DA, and real encouragement from his Gran (after the Department of Mysteries success), it's natural that he would continue to focus on those areas. Here's somebody wh you can really see how their motivations and realistic human emotions turn into logical decisions. Hooray for characters that make sense!!!
5. I agree that Hogwarts was the ideal place for the last battle. The school building itself could help with the fight, and most of the main characters we've come to know had a logical reason for being there (and sending out all the little kids to contact their parents and the OOP got the rest there). Also, it's where the whole series was set, so she couldn't leave it out of this book altogether.
6. Why were the Deathly Hallows there? a)to provide a compare and contrast between Voldemort and Dumbledore. They both wanted power, specifically over death. They both had the natural ability and charisma. But when Dumbledore saw what it would cost, he gave it up, and tried to fight against others who tried to go down that path. It's what he told Harry all along - it's your choices that determine who you are. b) to let Harry know why Voldemort wanted Dumbledore's wand, and let Harry know how to defeat that advantage. c) Getting all three didn't do any good. You can't have true power over death in any meaningful way and still be a good person. Anybody you bring back with the stone will be sad, to keep the wand you have to either refuse to use it or be a ruthless killer, and if you use the invisibility cloak all the time, you can't have a meaningful relationship with anyone. that's why d) Dumbledore did not send them on a quest to collect them. He let them know they existed so they'd know how to counter them, but their real job was to get rid of the horocruxes that were another evil way of cheating death. e) A major theme of the series is that death is sad for the ones left behind, but it's a natural part of the cycle of life. Happy people don't come back as ghosts -- they move on. You can't spend all your time wishing for dead people to come back and staring at them in the Mirror of erised. Losing your soul is worse than being dead, etc.
OK that's all I have to say for now. Keep it coming!
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Just finished reading it. I'll have more to discuss later.
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[hide]The Thestrals question has been answered by JKR on her official FAQ. Link (http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/en/faq_view.cfm?id=21)
Why could Harry see the Thestrals 'Order of the Phoenix'? Shouldn't he have been able to see them much earlier, because he saw his parents/Quirrell/Cedric die?
I’ve been asked this a lot. Harry didn’t see his parents die. He was in his cot at the time (he was just over a year old) and, as I say in ‘Philosopher’s Stone’, all he saw was a flash of green light. He didn’t see Quirrell’s death, either. Harry had passed out before Quirrell died and was only told about it by Dumbledore in the last chapter.
He did, however, witness the murder of Cedric, and it is this that makes him able to see the Thestrals at last. Why couldn’t he see the Thestrals on his trip back to the train station? Well, I didn’t want to start a new mystery, which would not be resolved for a long time, at the very end of the fourth book. I decided, therefore, that until Harry is over the first shock, and really feels what death means (ie, when he fully appreciates that Cedric is gone forever and that he can never come back, which takes time, whatever age you are) he would not be able to see the Thestrals. After two months away from school during which he has dwelled endlessly on his memories of the murder and had nightmares about it, the Thestrals have taken shape and form and he can see them quite clearly.
One thing I've wondered, is why Dumbledore sent Harry after the Hallows (ie putting the stone in the snitch). In the end, they really didn't make any kind of difference. The stone didn't really do much more than give him a little more confidence, but I think he already had enough. The cloak would of been his anyway since he got it from his dad, and we never heard before this that normal cloaks wear out over time.
Harry going after the hallows really didn't help him beat Voldemort at all. It seems like if Dumbledore just sent them after the horcruxes, everything would of worked out nearly the same. Harry would of ended up as the master of the wand, and Voldemort would of died in the same way. The objects were never united, and Dumbledore seemed to expect that Harry wouldn't unite them.
I just don't understand why Dumbledore sent them on that quest, when doing so didn't really make a difference as far as I can tell.
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[hide]Although if Harry hadn't known about the Hallows, he wouldn't have understood what Voldemort was trying to get done, and he wouldn't have understood the importance of the wand, which certainly had an impact on the outcome. I'll agree though that the Hallows was tacked on. Rowling can claim all she wants that she had it all planned out ahead of time, but that doesn't hold any water with me. I think she looked at what she had written and found ways to tie things together. If the Hallows were intended all along, we would have had more of an idea of their existence a long time ago . . .[/hide]
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I read it the first day and want to see what others thought. I don't know how these hide tags work.
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So, to read the hidden tags I have to post? Well, here it is!
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i wrote a review (http://www.timewastersguide.com/review/1571/Harry-Potter-and-the-Deathly-Hallows)
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Here's my post!
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Wow, very few things on this site annoy me, but these hidden posts are certainly managing to do it. Die! Die! Die!
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1) The hide thing is dumb. I have to post this just to read.
2) I'll post more when I know more.
Ok, I agree with most people, but here's one thing that bugged me that no one has mentioned yet.
Poor Snape! All this debate over whether he's good or evil, and what does he get? Nothing. That whole "flashback to let you know he was good" thing sucked. I expected him to turn on Voldemort at the very end, to enable Harry to win, or something like that. But all he got was an ignomius death, making him entirely inconsequential at the end. Sad, sad, sad!
Speaking of inconsequential, the entire Deathly Hallows subplot could have been removed. Seriously, this woman needs to get a new editor (or more likely, just listen to the one she's got). If it doesn't affect the plot, leave it out!
The thing with the ghosts was pretty touching, I'll admit. It was the only thing in the book that really pulled at my heartstrings.
The "19 years later" did feel very tacked on, but I'm glad it was there. Anything that let me know Harry and Ginny were happy together, and Ron and Hermione as well, was fine with me. That's all the "happily ever after" I needed.
I'm still not sure I get the convoluted explanation about the wand at the end. Voldemort was holding the unbeatable Elder Wand (that Dumbledore beat someone to win... how is this wand unbeatable again?), and the Elder Wand really belonged to Harry because Snape killed Dumbledore but Draco picked up the Elder Wand and Harry disarmed Draco who had his own wand and not the Elder Wand at the time, so when Voldemort cast a killing curse at Harry it bounced back and hit Voldemort? Did I get that right? Because if so, I would like to walk up to Ms. Rowling and kick her in the shins. Can ANYONE explain how that makes sense?
Oh, one more thing. I really did like how she got around Harry's death. If anything in the whole series made sense, it was that. Voldemort couldn't die because he'd spread his soul around to various objects, and had accidentally put one of those pieces in Harry. Thus Harry could use the very same power that Voldemort used to cheat death. I thought it was brilliantly done.
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I think I'm going to add Hidden to all posts automatically just so you have to post to read any thread, it makes things on the forum much more active (I think we've had more "I'm posting just to read" posts in this thread then we've had normal posts in the whole forum the past week).
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I'm still not sure I get the convoluted explanation about the wand at the end. Voldemort was holding the unbeatable Elder Wand (that Dumbledore beat someone to win... how is this wand unbeatable again?), and the Elder Wand really belonged to Harry because Snape killed Dumbledore but Draco picked up the Elder Wand and Harry disarmed Draco who had his own wand and not the Elder Wand at the time, so when Voldemort cast a killing curse at Harry it bounced back and hit Voldemort? Did I get that right? Because if so, I would like to walk up to Ms. Rowling and kick her in the shins. Can ANYONE explain how that makes sense?
[hide]Okay, this is how I understand this (and if anyone else has a better explanation, please add. I'm not sure I understood this completely either). Draco had beat Dumbledore and could have killed him. When he did this, the wand gave its allegiance to Draco, even though Draco never touched the Elder wand. So when Snape killed Dumbledore, he didn't become the wand's rightful owner because Dumbledore had already been beaten. Then Harry beat Draco (again without killing him either), so Harry became the wand's rightful owner and gained its allegiance. So when Voldemort tried to use the wand on Harry, Harry was able to overpower, and somehow the curse hit Voldemort.
Also, the unbeatable thing. I'm not sure. I think it's because although the wand is powerful, others can use cunning and such to beat the owner (as in the story how the brother was killed while drunk and the wand was taken from him, and obviously how Dumdledore was able to beat Grindelwald).[/hide]
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The Thestrals question has been answered by JKR on her official FAQ.
But the first part of her explanation on that FAQ doesn't jive with what I remember reading in the book on Sunday. [hide]Harry was standing up in his cot and looking right at his mom and Voldemort.[/hide] I can accept the second part though, which would clear up my issue entirely.
As for problems with the wand explanation, or the battle...remember, people... The Harry Potter magic system has always been poorly thought out and poorly explained. Spells are difficult because you have to remember how to pronounce the words correctly? What, the most powerful wizards are the ones with the best diction? Come on!! Anyway, the magic is just the way it is—it's a little late to suddenly notice it makes no sense.
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[hide]I'm liking this hide thing because it makes you all seem like you've gone mad. Unless I post. Then I'm in on the madness. When I use this hidey hole feature.[/hide]
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[hide]I agree with Tinks explanation about the Elder Wand. I kind of saw the Deathly Hallows as a psychological preparation for Harry in order to face Voldemort. Even though I think for Dumbledore, they were a plan B for Harry if he could destroy the Horcruxes.
I'm so happy I figured out Harry was a Horcrux after book 6. People told be he couldn't be, but I was right.
Actually, I found a lot of this book to be predictable. Not a whole lot a surprises. I guess that's oaky because I was worried there would be some surprises that would have ruined the series for me. I will admit that I was a little surprised by the body count in this one. I really felt that any character had an equal chance of being knocked off.
I actually find Snape to be a really great character after this book. Wether he's good or evil is still debateable. I like that.
I was very satisfied with this book.[/hide]
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I love this book. Now can I see the spoilers?
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oki, finished last night, reading now.
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[hide]I found the Hallows integral to the character of both Harry and Dumbledore. "Hallows before Horcurxes" or "Horcruxes before Hallows." Even at the end Dumbledore was choosing the former. Harry chose the latter specifically by dropping the stone. That, there, is the point of the entire series, in a way. I can't see how that could really have been done away.
I too had an issue with the wand not being unbeatable. However, its owner defeated four times in the narrative and flashback of the series. 1) Dumbledore. The wand decided he was beaten before he's killed, though I'm not sure how. that's the point I worry about. However, it doesn't matter, because he doesn't duel with it. He hides Harry instead and the death eaters have him trapped without magic. No problem being unbeatable there. 2) Draco. Draco was more or less standing around. Something he does a lot in the series. He's a crappy wizard at best. He's caught unawares and not dueling. Same and snatching it while he sleeps, imo. 3) Voldemort. Voldemort isn't its master, thus he isn't unbeatable with it. Rowlings took great pains to explain that. Complaining about that now doesn't make sense. 4) Gangrenous or whatever Dumbledore's old "friend" was called. No one saw the duel, so who knows what happened. Maybe he surrendered. I dunno. This one is slightly more problematic for me than how Draco "defeated" Dumbledore.
On another note, why *shouldn't* Mrs. Weasely be an expert duelist? She's pretty handy with the wand at most other things. Plus it looked better that way.
The other problem, of everyone standing around watching the duel. Well, do you have a problem with the Stormtroopers watch Vader fight Obi-Wan? Plus Harry told the good guys to stand down. The bad guys couldn't hurt them, that was also explained in the text. On the whole, most "complaints" are tightly explained in the book.
On yet another note, the hole I have a hard time reconciling. How the heck does Neville have the Sword of Gryffendor? Yeah, yeah, he had the sorting hat, like Harry did in #2, but uhm... it was given back tot he Goblins. By both goblin and wizard definition, Hogwarts was no longer the home of the sword. So... the wizards can give it back and then steal it anytime they wanted? uh uh. Doesn't make sense to me. Of course, Nagini had to be killed by *something* special. Normal killing wouldn't work since he's a Horcrux, so that's why (narratively) he needed it, but it doesn't explain how he got it.
I was right about Snape. way back after book 6 most of you mocked me for pointing out that Snape was still trying to teach Harry as he fled the scene, and for insisting that he was on Dumbledores side. You people were all WRONG! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!
Deathcount of the good guys: Hedwig (saddest for me), Mad Eye, Scrimgeour (I guess he was a good guy, he was just a major retard at being a good guy), Dobby, Fred, Tonks, Lupin, Snape, Harry (sorta).
Official named bad guy deaths: Bellatrix, Crabbe (or was it Goyle?), Voldemort, wormtail. I can't remember anyoen else. Looks like the bad guys were winning pretty good there.[/hide]
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The "19 years later" did feel very tacked on...
I agree, it felt like an afterthought. Personally, I think it was JKR's way of making sure everyone knew she was definitely retiring Harry as a hero. After all, what is more boring to teenagers than...PARENTS! She has said that she might write other stories in this world--I'm thinking Dumbledore--she put enough of his backstory in this book to whet everyone's appetite.
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yeah, but there's an intervening 19 years. As a way of telling people the story's over, that was weak. In fact, it was jsut weak. I wanted somethign more immediate -- maybe he could, you know, court ginny? Snog her because now she's not in trouble? I dunno. Just chop off the epilogue. It was weak.
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[hide]I don't know if this explanation will satisfy you SE, but here's how I saw the sword thing. Yes the goblin took it, but it has a magical ability for a true Griffyndor to draw the sword to him/her when it's needed, and I'm assuming the sorting hat is the mode of transportation. I personally had no problem with it and actually liked it since the goblin essentially stole it (i.e. he didn't wait for Harry to voluntarily give it to him as payment). Its home will always be Hogwarts no matter (afterall, I got the impression that the school has been around a LONG time and so Hogwarts has been its home MUCH longer than the goblin had it), and in the possession of a Gryffindor (it can be owned by others, but only temporarily, until it's needed by a Gryffindor). Of course, this is mostly my speculation.
Oh, also, on the bad guy death count, you can add Peter Pettigrew.[/hide]
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[hide]Oh yeah, wormtail. Forgot about him. Choked to death by his own hand. That's pretty unique.
My problem with that explanation is that it assumes that wizard ideas of ownership are correct. Why do we so easily discount the justness of the goblin point of view? In his mind, he shouldn't have even had to deal for the sword. His people should have had it for centuries. Now, in many ways, wizards were right about house elves. With the exception of Dobby, none of them wanted to be masterless. but they still treated them as worthless on the whole. I suspect that wizards could be wrong about justly having the sword. So... yeah, still annoyed by it.[/hide]
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Based on what I've read/heard/thought of, this is what I think can explain the hat/sword and "unbeatable" wand.
For the hat/sword issue, in one interview she said "There is more to the Sorting Hat than what you have read about in the first three books." It should be noted, that she isn't talking about the sword coming from it, since that happened in the second book. It's known now that the sorting hat was originally owned by Godric Gryffindor. My guess is, the reason that Neville was able to get the sword, was because there is such a strong connection between it and the hat, since both were owned at one point, by the same wizard. Godric Gryffindor obviously didn't create the sword (since goblins did) but I think it's safe to say he did modify it some (putting his name on it) and could of thrown some magic on it to tie it to the hat as well.
Also, the explanation I think is the strongest about the "Unbeatable" wand, is that mainly, the "unbeatable" part, is just part of the children's story. If I'm not mistaken, the only time it's referred to as unbeatable, is directly in the story. Now, as Dumbledore brings up, the story is likely just a story, and not a real account of what happened. I'm sure there are countess examples of a similar thing happening in real life, where a real event is exaggerated, and then simplified into a children's story.
Based on that, you can assume that the wand wasn't unbeatable, but simply a much more powerful wand. It would do the same spells, but do them stronger. More evidence for this, is that Harry was able to determine that the first wand Hermione gave him didn't feel quite as powerful as his own. So we know it's possible for a wizard to judge the power of their wand. Later on, Voldemort says that the Elder Wand doesn't seem as powerful as it should. Based on that, it would seem that Voldemort knew that the wand was just a "stronger" wand. If it did have some magical unbeatable property tied to it, then it would of acted on it's own (I would think) more like Harry's did at the beginning when Voldemort was coming after him after they fled Privett drive. Based on that, I don't think the wand was unbeatable. I think it was just a very powerful one, and the children's story about it just labeled it as being so.
Another theory I have heard, is that since the wand is part of the Deathly Hallows, which are objects used to defeat death, the master of the wand can lose a duel with it, if the attacker doesn't have any intention of killing the wizard who is the master. This would explain why Grindelwald is still alive, and Dumbledore had the wand. It would also explain why Draco was able to defeat Dumbledore (Since it seemed like Draco wasn't going to kill him).
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[hide]I don't really get what you're saying. Yes, in his mind the goblins owned all things made by goblins and wizards/witches are only borrowing goblin-made items when they buy them. But what does that have to do with the sword coming to Neville? Just because that is how the goblins see it doesn't mean that is how it is. As Phaz just pointed out, Godric Gryffindor probably modified the sword magicly. He was obviously a very powerful wizard, and probably knew a way to make the object "loyal" in a sense to those who strive to follow in Gryffindor's footsteps (or something). So I really don't see why the sword couldn't be called by a true Gryffindor in a time of need, no matter what the goblins' views of ownership are.
Maybe it was wrong of Gryffindor to enchant the sword in this way, and maybe wizard's and witch's views on ownership are off (as with the house elves), but it still makes sense to me in the Harry Potter-verse. (Although I have to say I don't think they're wrong when it comes to owning goblin-made items. In my opinion, If you pay for an item then it's yours and you should be able to pass it down to whomever you want when you die, whether it's made by goblins or not.) [/hide]
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I enjoyed the book. Maybe I'll discuss it after I'm able to read the posts. :)
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[hide]Phaz: the relative power of the wands is explained by mastership, not actual power. That's in the text. It doesn't demonstrate anythign about hte properties of the actual wands (though she does say there are varying qualities of wands, I'm just saying your arguments are faulty and unnecessary)
Tink: Ownership has to do with it because you were saying that it "belonged to" gryffindor and hogwarts for so long. Magic isn't like the law. Posession has less to do with it. Harry possesses the wand Ron passes to him, but it's weak and ineffectual because he doesn't have mastership of the wand. If ownership applies at all to other items, than the Sword is not Gryffindor's at all. It was justly passed to the goblin. Not when Harry wanted to, but then Harry planned to deceive the goblin. Phaz's argument makes more sense, but if so, then you're adding material that isn't in the book. It's speculative, in other words. So I'm still unsatisfied with it, since it still points to a flaw in the text.[/hide]
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[hide]JK Rowling did an interview with NBC. It DOES have some spoilers for those who have NOT read the book. It's great for those who have, including saying what Ron, Harry, and Hermione are doing for a living. It can be found here (http://video.msn.com/v/us/msnbc.htm?f=00&g=3f4a5a9d-2c56-459e-b2b0-d9b0ef1aeec2&p=hotvideo_m_edpicks&t=m5&rf=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19959323&fg=) for anyone interested.[/hide]
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Thanks for the link--very informative and enjoyable to watch.
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I just finished; I'll read the thread and then edit this post with my thoughts.
[hide]Alright: as with most things in life, I agree with Ben almost across the board here. I've been pulling for Snape ever since book 2, when it turned out Rowling was really going to follow the "mean but still a good guy" thing that makes his character so fascinating. There had to be a very good reason for him to want to help Dumbledore, and a very important role for him to play in the plan. I felt that the former was handled rather well--he wants to protect Lily's daughter--although to some degree that cheapened his motives for me to know that he was doing it because he loved Lily, and not because he loved goodness and had an inherently noble heart (mind you--I do think that he had an inherently noble heart, I just don't like the way it was explained, if that makes sense). The latter, Snape's role to play in the grand plan, was a complete and utter let down. There's no two ways around it. Dumbledore's grand plan for Snape was twofold: he would tell Harry that he was a Horcrux, and he would protect the Hogwarts students from the worst excesses of the Carrows. Snape was highly positioned in the Death Eaters, second only to Voldemort himself in the end, and perfectly positioned for a treacherous blow at an opportune time. The fact that he never got to make that heroic move, and instead died in humiliating ignominy, really, really bothered me. Knowing that he brought the sword to Harry in the forest, and the fact that Harry called him "the bravest man he ever knew" and named his son after him, made me feel a little better, and may even have brought a little tear to my eye, but overall I thought Snape's arc was a huge letdown.
While we're talking about redemptions that never paid off, I, like someone else mentioned earlier, kept expecting Draco to turn. He had a perfect opportunity in the Malfoy's house (though I have to admit that I liked that scene a lot, even when it didn't go the way I wanted it to), and he had another opportunity at the end in the Room of Requirement, but instead we got, as with Snape, ignominy in the place of heroism. Draco has been Harry's foil throughout the series, and his ending should have been as meaningful, whether for good or evil, but instead of learning his lesson or going down in a blaze of evil glory, all he did was drift into insignificance. Again, the epilogue did a little to assuage this, by turning Draco into the new generation's Snape (picked-on-boy who hates the Potters) and passing his hatred on to the next generation, but generational cycle sagas are why I read Isabel Allende, not J.K. Rowling.
Those two paragraphs are a long way of saying that this series ended up being way too light on redemption for my taste. It was far too deterministic--the good guys got rewarded, the bad guys got punished, and very few people ever crossed the line between them. Anything that looked like a sudden switch of allegiances was actually presaged by several decades of prehistory, and the closest thing we ever got to redemption--a bad guy seeing the error of his ways and becoming good--was Kreacher. This was a moral series in that good triumphed over evil, but it was not a series in which people made life-changing moral decisions.
(That's not true, actually, because Xenophilius went from good to desperate and sold out the heroes, but I still think my overall statement applies. Nobody ever moved from one camp to the other except Snape, which is why he was the most interesting character, and why his ending was so grossly disappointing.)
Moving on: I also agree with Ben in that the Deathly Hallows thing ended up being inconsequential to the plot. It was very important to the character development, I think, but I can't find a good plot reason for Dumbledore to have passed along the clues to Harry. It's a little unfair to compare them to midichlorians, because they made perfect sense within the world, but the book could have happened almost identically without them.
I've mentioned the epilogue a few times already, but let me say clearly that I thought it was an excellent end to the series. The only thing missing was finding out who the new headmaster is--I thought for sure it would be Harry, but then when it apparently wasn't him I figured it would be Hermione, and then when it wasn't her I became ever more desperate to find out who it was. I assume McGonagall, maybe, but come on, book, throw me a bone!
I have one final comment in this ginormous essay, and I will begin by saying that anyone who complained that the deaths in the book didn't mean anything (ahem, Steve) must have read a different book than I did. I thought that every single main character death in the book was given proper reverence. What I did not like was the very cursory treatment given to the child of Lupin and Tonks. Harry's outburst with Lupin near the beginning stemmed from the fact that he couldn't stand the thought of another baby losing his parents the way he did--and then that's exactly what happened at the end, and all of a sudden we had another orphan who's parents were killed by Death Eaters, and I expected more from that--some emotion, some worry, some solemn promises that he would be raised in love and so on and so on, and instead, we got less than nothing. Grr.
There were a lot of things I liked about the book too, I promise, but I'm out of time. I'll get back to you.
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[hide]Listen to that interview linked earlier, it's not McGonagall, because she's too old. It's "someone new" I mean, come on. We don't know every single wizard and witch that could be remotely important. Harry and Ron are Aurors. Hermione is high up in the ministry of magical enforcement. Ginny ... is a mom? I dunno. She didn't mention her I don't think. Anyway, that doesn't help the book, itself, since it's another source, but I suppose it can be considered canon.
I repeat that while the plot itself would have happened identically without the hallows, that doesn't make them unimportant. They were still worth the time ine th book.
[/hide]What I'm getting is that you were annoyed because things didn't go the way you wanted. I find that an odd but startlingly common reaction among many people on a wide variety of subjects. I dont' read or watch things for them to go the way I want. [hide]I probably would have redeemed malfoy if I had written it, but frankly, he never really had a reason to be redeemed. He planned for a whole year to kill a man. He was a git. And while I like to see people become better, I also like to see that just because you're not the worst evil ever doesn't mean that you're not still a tremendous butthole. Harry saved him, and Malfoy made a choice to still be in Snape's camp. I don't think it was deterministic. I think the chance was offered and he didn't take it. I liked that Dumbledore's plans weren't perfect -- that Snape didn't get to do his thing, etc. It made Dumbledore more... Jeffersonian to me, and more human. Snape, frankly, didn't deserve much of a heroism either. He constantly chose to favor Malfoy -- the bully and bigot -- over Harry, for no other reason than to be mean.
I think that the story has been less about redemption and much more about how good can navigate the waters of the world. What kinds of deals are acceptable? What can one do? How can you treat each other. In that sense, the ideas were interesting. [/hide]
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[hide]I don't think HP is about redemtion.
I was satisfied with the whole Snape story for the most part. Snape is neither good or evil in the end, just a person who has done good and evil things, making him a well thought out character. His death was a little ignimatic, but a lot of other important characters got ignimatic deaths (i.e., Lupin).
I do see death as an important theme in HP. I like that J.K. doesn't treat it trivially. During a crisis, people die, so J.K. kills people off. Some people have dramatic deaths, and other have very unexpected deaths. HP takes a very universal approach to death that isn't fatalistic, it simply accepts that death happens and takes it something not to be feared nor embraced.
If the death of every character was some dramatic, poignant moment in the series, then the series would be one long melodrama. It also wouldn't make death very meaningful. So I agree with J.K.'s decision to make death meaningful rather than dramatic.
I also think the Deathly Hallows story-lined served its purpose. Mostly, being a red-herring that shifts the readers focus for half-the book so other things can play out off-stage. I would have liked to have scene some of those off-stage moments, but one thing I like about HP is that the protagonist isn't always present during every major event.
At least that's what I'm thinking right now.
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[hide]I readily admit that many of my complaints come from the fact that things just didn't go my way. Another part of it, though, and a large part, is that the series as a whole seemed to be building toward a much better payoff for Snape and Draco. So while it is primarily an issue of the book not matching my expectations, the expectations in question were specifically planted by Rowling over the course of seven books.[/hide]
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:)
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Did the talking patronus thing just come out of nowhere, conveniently introduced for this book? I know there's a bit in book 6 where Tonks sends a patronus as a message. I'm not sure whether that meant it delivered a message or it was the message.
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I think that Tonk's patronus in book 6 sends a message.
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[hide]Just in case you're interested, JK Rowling did a chat (a transcript can be found here (http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/2007/7/30/j-k-rowling-web-chat-transcript)), where she says this about the sword:
Su: How did neville get the gryfindor sword, is there a link to the hat
J.K. Rowling: Yes, there is very definitely a link to the hat!
J.K. Rowling: Neville, most worthy Gryffindor, asked for help just as Harry did in the Chamber of secrets, and Gryffindor’s sword was transported into Gryffindor’s old hat
J.K. Rowling: – the Sorting Hat was Gryffindor’s initially, as you know.
J.K. Rowling: Griphook was wrong – Gryffindor did not ‘steal’ the sword, not unless you are a goblin fanatic and believe that all goblin-made objects really belong to the maker.
It has has some other great insight on the characters and such. For example, Ginny played for the Holyhead Harpies before retiring and becoming a mom. Cool, eh?[/hide]
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Did the talking patronus thing just come out of nowhere, conveniently introduced for this book? I know there's a bit in book 6 where Tonks sends a patronus as a message. I'm not sure whether that meant it delivered a message or it was the message.
This is done in previous books, just more subtlety.
I think the first case, is I want to say in book 4 when Dumbledore follows harry out to find Barty Crouch Sr (who's no longer there). If you read the passage, it basically says something silvery shoots out of Dumbledore's wand. It can be easily implied, that what he's doing, is sending his Phoenix patronus out to Hagrid's hut, since Hagrid comes along in a rush just after that.
Also, in book 5, it's mentioned that the order of the phoenix have other ways to communicate other than sticking a head in the fire with floo powder. I believe in a later interview she says this refers to something we have already seen, which is that. In book 6 the question is answered, and we are given specific descriptions of people communicating like this. She also clarifies, when there was a poll on her site to have a question answered (visitors selected which one), and this was the question asked. She replies at http://www.jkrowling.com/textonly/en/faq_view.cfm?id=99
It's never explained exactly how the message gets there, but I don't see how it could transmit the message unless it spoke it.
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I've finished the book but I'm still undecided as to what I think.
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Just finished the book. Overall, it was good but it was slow in some chapters. I felt like Rowling had to reminisce a little too much throughout the book. That said, I enjoyed the book and felt like it brought a proper closure to the whole Harry Potter saga.
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Finished last night. I thought I'd be fourth in line for the book but I nabbed it second, after my son.
I'm posting in part so I can see what everyone else is saying.
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Thought it was good. But not as good as some of the others.
I felt like there wasn't enough of a "sacrifice." I fully expected someone with more emotional weight, such as Ron, Hermoine or Hagrid to die. Not that I wanted them to die but it felt too convenient. With the innumerable dangers they passed through, not the least the final battle with all the Death Eats trying to kill them, it's hard to believe that the casualty rate was so low. It felt like cheating.
I felt like the Hallows and Horcruxes and all the deep magic stuff got way too complex. When you have to have a whole chapter near the end of the book where Dumbledore sits down and explains everything then it is Way too complex.
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But, hey, could I do any better? Just wish she had submitted it to our writing group first. The final version would have been much better. :)
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I admit that most of this is nitpicking but I wanted to reach to previous posts, now that I've had a chance to read them.
Supporting Cast:
Neville and Luna are awesome. But I was hoping to see more significant action from Gawp, the house Elves, Krum, Hadrid's girlfriend, the Dursleys, and others. But then I realized that the book was just too crowded as it was. She crammed in a lot. Some of these folks could have helped during the quest.
Loved the Bagshot chapter!
Hedwig:
How can the death of Hedwig carry so much weight? I know people's pets are important to them but when you and all your best friends are about to die at the hands of death eaters then by comparison it just doesn't worry me much. (I'll probably get labeled as an animal hater for this comment.)
Snape:
I felt sure that Rowling would redeem Snape. It seemed obvious from Harry's previous view of Snape with Lily that Snape was in love with Lily. But after Snape shot off George's ear I thought that possibly Snape wasn't good but just set on revenge against Voldemort or was just trying to usurp the Dark Lord's power. I thought she did well with Snape. Flawed but brave. The only thing disappointing about his death was that he didn't fight back. He seemed too smart and too quick to not react. And since Voldemort had killed many of his own followers how could Snape be caught off guard?
When Harry went in the Headmaster's office I was hoping to see a new portrait of Snape hanging on the wall, sneering at him.
Kreatur:
I loved Kreatur's "Redemption" It was one of my favorite parts of the book. But as someone else mentioned, I expected a few more people to switch sides. Which leads to . . .
Another wrong prediction:
I really thought that there would be a traitor to Harry, like Peter Petigrew was to James. I really feared it would be Ron. When Ron took off I was afraid he'd be captured by Death Eaters and turn. When he smashed the locket I felt a huge sense of relief. I thought "Ron's passed the test. He'll be okay now." After that I wasn't as concerned about a traitor.
Voldemort:
Considering what the sorting hat did the last time Voldemort encountered it, Chamber of Secrets, why would he summon it? Seems pretty stupid. Or does he have no memory of that because it was a Horcux that did it? In any case the act of putting it on Neville and setting it on fire seemed juvenile. I'd expect that from Malfoy or Crabbe but not Voldemort.
And I half expected Harry to tell everyone that Tom Riddle's father was a Muggle. That would have been an excellent scoop for the Quibbler.
The Elder Wand:
If the wand works as it apparently did, being taken from Malfoy because Harry disarmed him, then Harry's comment that if no one takes it from him until he dies is not correct.
My son was making up new names for books and threw out the title "Dean Thomas and the Elder Wand."
How could that happen?
Here's the beginning of my outline for my first Harry Potter fanboy fiction. :)
Dean Thomas, as professor of Defense against the Dark Arts, invites Harry to Hogwarts to demonstrate dueling. Harry doesn't try hard because he doesn't want to show off or disgrace the teacher in front of his students. Dean disarms Harry. (If what Harry did to Malfoy counts then why wouldn't this?) This means that the Elder wand now belongs to Dean. How does Dean find out? While sailing on the lake by Hogwarts his boat tips and he drops his wand into the lake. He borrows someone else's wand and says "Accio Wand." Instead of summoning the wand that's sinking to the bottom of the lake it calls the Elder Wand, which bursts out of Dumbledore's tomb and flies to him.
That's the long way of saying "I don't buy Harry's little sermon about removing the power of the wand."
Question:
I thought that when Harry and Ron were in Slytherin's dungeon disguised as Crabbe and Goyle that Malfoy mentioned that his dad had stuff hidden under the floor of the Malfoy mansion. Did that ever show up latter in the series?
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But on the whole I must bow before Rowling's genius. Harry Potter is a marvelous creation. I had a blast reading the books. Still I think The Prizoner of Azkaban is my favorite.
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But on the whole I must bow before Rowling's genius. Harry Potter is a marvelous creation. I had a blast reading the books. Still I think The Prizoner of Azkaban is my favorite.
[hide]About Snape's portrait in the Headmaster's office, JK Rowling said that since he abandoned his post before he died, he didn't have one automatically appear after he died. She did say, though, that Harry would later fight for his being worthy to have one and one would be created later.
In reference to it being dumb of Voldemort to summon the sorting hat, you're right in that he doesn't remember what happened in the Chamber of Secrets. He didn't even know what Lucius had done (i.e. given the diary to Ginny) until after the fact, so he definitely didn't see it happening. It pretty much acted on its own. [/hide]
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Obligatory posting for "spoilers".
And now, on the edit, my thoughts:
[Hide] So, no one has mentioned any of the things that I had trouble with in this book, and so I thought that I'd throw in my two cents. First let me say that on the whole I think that Rowling had a great idea and that she's accomplished many great story and characters arcs that I have really enjoyed. Unfortunately, this last book's execution just about killed me.
The fact that Harry, Ron, and Hermione sit on their collective butts and do relatively nothing for the majority of the book, and (coincidentally?) the entire length of the school year has already been mentioned.
My second large issue was with the sequence concerning the dragon escape sequence. The three kids climb up on the back of this beast that is thrashing down a relatively small (compared to the dragon) tunnel. Sounds like hamburger mash to me. Dragon back to tunnel ceiling. Then, amazingly, the three of them start carving out the ceiling of said tunnel and make the opening larger for the dragon's ease of escape. Hmmm. Well, unless they were making the dirt and stuff disappear (and I didn't get that sense) doesn't it all just fall onto the floor of the tunnel. Making the tunnel no larger? The whole scene was just about the most laughable scene I've ever read in a book.
The biggest gripe for me though has to come with the ending. Way...too...contrived. Eek! Voldemort wants to kill Potter. Badly. He knows that Potter is in Hogwarts, knows that his own last horcrux is there, has confidence that he'll be able to smash through any opposition, but he decides to hold his forces back and gives the good guys the ultimatum "until midnight" or some such. This gives Harry just enough time to find the room of requirement, go searching for the last horcrux, and find it. Oh boy. Then, Harry stumbles upon Voldemort and Snape talking, and instead of Voldemort just Avada Kedavra-ing the poor sap (who definitely got shafted on the grand exit in my opinion...) like he and his death eaters have been doing with all of their other opponents, he has Nagini bite Snape. Thus leaving Snape the opportunity to give Harry his memories. But oh no! It's midnight! And Harry doesn't know what Snape wanted to tell him. Well, luck is on his side, because old Voldy gives them another hour! Hooray! Just enough time for Harry to run to the Penseive and finalize Snape's part in the grand scheme. Then we get explanation hour so that all us readers can figure out what has been going on behind the scenes unbeknownst to us, concerning the wands and the setup and Dumbledore's genius scheming.
Now that my rant is complete, let me say that I still think that she did a great job of overall (series) storyline. The execution of this book just killed me though. She's said all along that she had the last part of book seven done before even starting the first one, and after I had read this, I could completely agree with that statement. She did have it done. And because of that, she never took any time to flesh it out. That is the frustrating part for me. I didn't want just a bunch of explanation about what had happened. I could have just waited and picked up the encyclopedia that she's planning on writing in the near future if I just wanted the facts. Give me story! Ahhhh!
And the thing about the epilogue that a few people have mentioned. I think that it was perfect. That is exactly the way that I think big series like this should end: at the beginning. Coming full circle. [/Hide]
On the whole, I'm glad it's done. And I liked reading the last book. I just think that it could have been handled so...much...better.
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just wanted to see the spoilers
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The Whole idea of Patronuses talking annoys me, I mean; even if only because having them mime the messages would be *soooooooo* much more entertaining.
Go ahead, picture a hopping grasshoper patronus trying to mime "The forest is on fire; get the buckets~!" or something like "Jane's run out of tampons, in the bathroom! Send help soon!" ... I mean, honestly, wouldn't you just kill yourself laughing watching that? (Especially if this was a friend?) I almost feel sorry for Jane and her extravagent limb-flailing grasshoper patronus.
(but mostly I just reeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeally wanted to see what everyone else's intellectual arguments about this book was- and hey, I made a squicky joke out of it so it's sort of recompense ----- wait, wait is that even a word? I mean, I want to believe it's a word but I've been known to be wrong. Oh well it's payment by trade at least.)
:-*
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i apoligize for ressurecting this thread but i wanted to read the STUPID, STUPID hidden posts
btw i figured out the major plot twist at the end with Harry being a Horcrux halfway through book six...
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i apoligize for ressurecting this thread but i wanted to read the STUPID, STUPID hidden posts
btw i figured out the major plot twist at the end with Harry being a Horcrux halfway through book six...
I did too. I had it all figured out except the hallows, but only because they were never mentioned or hinted at before that.
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I had the Harry and the Snape thing figured out, not much else. I kind of like how she added the Hallows in though. I hadn't realized before that how Harry was like the only one with an invisiility cloak, and how others cloaks work differently. It mentions once or twice that Mad-Eye has one, but we never see him wear it. I thought that was cool, and it added something new to the books.
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Ha ha. Yeah, the Hallows would have been nearly impossible to have figured out.
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just had a thought and figured this would be the place to put it.
Ok, so Voldemort is flying around now, right? And Snape can do it too. It is assumed that Voldemort taught it to him, but i think it was actually the other way around.
In Snape's memory thing where he is dying, Harry sees him playing with Lily and Petunia, right? And when Lily jumps off the swing, she seems to hover a bit, yes? I think Snape figured out how to copy that and actually improve it so he can fly. Then he taught it to Voldemort.
Ok I have not been following the Potter forums at all so I may have found something most already know about. I also could be totally off. Thoughts?
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hidden posts suck
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hidden posts suck
Yeah...now I have to do a pointless post to be able to read the posts already posted....ridiculous.
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well they haven't done it in any threads since so I guess the mods figured it out :)
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hi
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If you really want to be sneaky, you can just press "Quote" on a post with hidden text to read it. Then, in that next window, the text shall be revealed!
That's what I did with this topic :P
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I did that with the first page, and part of the second, too. And then I got bored with it (which takes a lot of work, since I was bored enough to do it in the first place....). It never did make the posts appear, even though I posted in the thread. Huh.
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Wow, I never realized there was stuff hidden in this thread!
(Guess it pays to start reading from the beginning :D
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lol there was this awesome thread I read once (not on this forum) where the original poster wrote one message normally, another invisible. You had to highlight the invisible text to see what he wrote. So it took everyone a couple days but eventually we had two conversations going on, one that really didn't make much sense at all until you highlighted. Good times.
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wtf is up with the "hide" thing its retarted
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Posting a sentence so I can read the freakin' thread!
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I addmit, I found the book in my grandma's bin.
So after reading this one, I started to wonder.
What If voldemort HAD killed harry. But whatever, the ending sucked balls.
When harry walked into the woods, I was so furious my knuckles creaked and the book snaped in two.
I had to read the last few pages In a different way. So when I read these last few pages, I decided it wasnt worth the time.
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Post for spoilers.
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Most over-rated series ever...above average read but hell the hype for it is ungodly her marketing team was/ is bloody genious!
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Don't blame Jo for the immature little teeny boppers that thought Jo was the goddess of all writing. Though admitingly it could have been better.
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Haven't read any of the novels, but the moves are pretty fun. Of course I have to go to the Matinee to avoid the aforementioned teeny-boppers.
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Posting...
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She has such an unusual writing style, though…it kind of drags you in. . . .
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Post
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JK Rowling did an interview with NBC. It DOES have some spoilers for those who have NOT read the book. It's great for those who have, including saying what Ron, Harry, and Hermione are doing for a living. It can be found here (http://video.msn.com/v/us/msnbc.htm?f=00&g=3f4a5a9d-2c56-459e-b2b0-d9b0ef1aeec2&p=hotvideo_m_edpicks&t=m5&rf=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19959323&fg=) for anyone interested
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JK Rowling did an interview with NBC. It DOES have some spoilers for those who have NOT read the book. It's great for those who have, including saying what Ron, Harry, and Hermione are doing for a living. It can be found here (http://video.msn.com/v/us/msnbc.htm?f=00&g=3f4a5a9d-2c56-459e-b2b0-d9b0ef1aeec2&p=hotvideo_m_edpicks&t=m5&rf=http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19959323&fg=) for anyone interested
Old news.
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Lemonspi–what?? ???
Actually, the only reason for the post above was to see the spoilers at the beginning of the thread. Turns out, that didn't do anything...so I guess it was just a wasted post.
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"The hide thing is dumb. I have to post this just to read."
Agreed. I'll edit.