Timewaster's Guide Archive
Local Authors => Brandon Sanderson => Topic started by: Amber on December 28, 2006, 11:41:02 AM
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Just finished Mistborn, which I enjoyed very much, but not nearly as much as Elantris, which just blew me away. I was so glued to that book. Compelling mystery, vivid characters, fascinating setting, wow. But it left me with a nagging question. (spoiler)
When Raoden was struck on the head and became dizzy and disoriented, it was explained that as an Elantrian, he would be that way forever: "The blow to his head had done something to his brain. He could barely keep himself upright, let alone speak. The worst part of it was, he knew he would never improve. He could not heal-- now that the dizziness had come upon him, it would never leave."
After he snapped out of the Hoed, though, he managed to run down the mountain at top speed, "one wrong step and he wouldn't stop rolling until hit the foot of the mountain", reached Kae, and then continued to run in a straight and precise line dragging the stick on the ground, even steadying himself after being tripped by grabbing hands... I don't get it. Did the magical pool heal the damage to his brain? Did emerging from the Hoed somehow change his disoriented state for the better? Did he fight back a concussion with sheer will power? It seemed at the time he was pretty well done for even before getting a sword to the gut, because the book spent a lot of time emphasizing that Elantrians can not recover from anything that requires time to do so, even the single second for the flare of pain from a toe stub. It added a lot of drama and urgency throughout because of the danger, so this nitpick is tied into a major element of the plot. Please clear up?
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This mistake is easily explained by the..
LOOK! A SHINY OBJECT!
/me runs in the opposite direction.
though, seriously, I reckoned that they learned to work through the pain. After several months of learning to cope, he was able to do it long enought to get the job done.
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This ties in with a question I remember having when reading the book. Raoden experiences the pain of being an Elantrian differently than all other denizens of the city: in short debilitating bursts rather than constant low-level pain. I had considered the idea that it might just be a matter of psychology, of Raoden's activity level drowning out the pain most of the time, but too many details and bits of dialogue seemed to argue against that. Did I miss an explanation of why Raoden was different?
MattD
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I think that it is a good question, but I guess I always just accepted the fact that Raoden was different, in the way that he felt the pain, and in the ways that he found to work around it. I guess I just took on faith that he may have still had the pain, but with the job needing to be done, he had the strength and the willpower to get it done. Also, there was the hope that it would return Elantris to what it was before, thereby negating all of the pain, weakness, and other maladies that struck them.
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But Raoden was the only one that really practiced using Aon Dor. My thoughts had been that he practiced so much that he was pulling on the magics of Dor at some level then once he released the Dor by finding the key missing component (the line for the Chasm) it stopped.
Though, I was surprised that he was able to overcome the Hoed but EUOL also showed us once before that a Hoed's brain still functioned despite the great pain they endured when they were first directed throught the hidden library and to the pool. The Hoed did not walk there but there was one difference Raoden had released the Dor, perhaps he was able to tap that power?
Besides, in times of great need people have been known to do spectacular feats of strength or ability despite great adversity or normal lack of needed ability. A mother protecting her child, etc... I for one willing to accept it without great explanation for trying to explain that might have sullied the impact of the scene.
Kel
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Good point. Perhaps that did subconciously let me feel that this was something that he could do without too much trouble or explanation.
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This ties in with a question I remember having when reading the book. Raoden experiences the pain of being an Elantrian differently than all other denizens of the city: in short debilitating bursts rather than constant low-level pain. I had considered the idea that it might just be a matter of psychology, of Raoden's activity level drowning out the pain most of the time, but too many details and bits of dialogue seemed to argue against that. Did I miss an explanation of why Raoden was different?
MattD
That part is explained by the Dor attacks. The bursts of pain were caused by the Dor buildup due to Raoden practicing all those Aons. All those almost-spells caused a slow buildup of unspent power looking for an outlet. When he released it in his first successful Aon, the debilitating bursts went away. That is in addition to the constant pain he felt as an Elantrian that he usually managed to ignore.
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I think that it is a good question, but I guess I always just accepted the fact that Raoden was different, in the way that he felt the pain, and in the ways that he found to work around it. I guess I just took on faith that he may have still had the pain, but with the job needing to be done, he had the strength and the willpower to get it done. Also, there was the hope that it would return Elantris to what it was before, thereby negating all of the pain, weakness, and other maladies that struck them.
I buy that for overcoming the pain and pulling out of the Hoed, and even for working through all that pain to accomplish his important task. He's a Hero, after all, and determination and toughness are what they're all about in these stories. What I don't feel that explains is recovering from the brain damage that caused dizzyness/disorientation. This was a physical injury that we were told would disable him forever. Then, without explanation, it has no longer has any noted effect on his balance, sense of direction, vision, focus, awareness, etc. It feels to me almost as if they told us he had his hands cut off and then described him writing a letter without mentioning the obvious difficulty in doing so. (I admit I don't know much about head injuries and how much of the effects are due to brain bruising and other physical damage versus being just a side-effect of the pain involved. But I know I'm not the only reader with a sketchy understanding of the mechanics of a concussion, so I feel like an explanatory sentence is missing here.)
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I see your point, it was just never a question that I had. I don't know everything about head injuries either, but ..... I don't know, I can't even say for sure why it didn't bother me....it just didn't. But different people read things differently and feel losses of explanation in different ways, so hopefully there will be someone who can help answer your question with something more than I was able to give you.
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I may have an explanation, not necessarily the explanation merely an explanation. And that is similar to what Pterath said, that people have been known, in dire circumstances, to do extraordinary things.
So, to address the question in a little more depth, we must consider the circumstances. First, we may assume that he was still experiencing the pain and dizziness. The pain factor however is irrelevant. We are also told that he was running. Now take into account that people can do extraordinary things under the right circumstances. Beyond the extraordinary, I find it interesting that he was running. Yes, he was in a hurry, and yes things were falling apart but, have you ever noticed that when you're trying to balance, and having a hard time of it, that speed can sometimes help. I think that that may have been part of it, if only a small part.
Wow, that was a bit long-winded and jumbled wasn't it?
Anyway, that's about all I can come up with. Sometimes, if you haven't got all the answers you just have to take the rest on faith that the issues were resolved.
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That is kind of what I felt. I didn't really feel the need to question him at all, but that is probably just me...I don't even really know why.
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Mmm, true, like a bicycle or gyroscope. Creative answer. Alright, everyone wants me to drop it and enjoy, so I will. Thanks for all your responses everyone. I'm impressed with how quick & helpful this board is. :)
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That part is explained by the Dor attacks. The bursts of pain were caused by the Dor buildup due to Raoden practicing all those Aons. All those almost-spells caused a slow buildup of unspent power looking for an outlet.
I'm not sure I buy this since Galladon practiced Aons as well -- before Raoden, even -- unless there's something else I'm missing. I do think the ultimate answer to both of our questions is, as you said, that things sometimes work a little differently for Heroes -- and that authors and editors both may let some things slide where they're concerned, at times intentionally and at times unintentionally, and hope reader imagination fills in the gap. But yes, you're not the only person to notice such things when reading!
As far as the blow to Raoden's head...well, I imagine there were two components: the physical injury and resulting pain plus the psychological shock of the blow and his focus of attention on it. Since we're in Raoden's POV, it's possible that he, due to the shock, was simply overstating things: he didn't think the dizziness would ever leave at the time that it happened, couldn't imagine it leaving when he was concentrating solely on it. When other important tasks came to occupy his mind, however, he was able to master the dizziness -- and to the extent it was psychological rather than physical, it may have faded to a degree as well. In other words, yes, we're told things, but the narrative voice may not be 100% reliable as it is grounded in a single character and their current understanding of the situation.
After all, the book begins by telling us that Raoden "had been damned for all eternity," which turned out to be not precisely true, either.
MattD
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I am not sure that it was something lacking in explanation about Galloden, because he did practice them but when they did not work he gave up. Raoden never gave up. He persisted in trying/hoping/puzzling through AonDor. He did it so much (for a few hours a day) that the Dor had a chance to build up. Galloden gave up before this could ever happen. Remember early on that when Raoden stubbed his toe it hurt but then he was able to learn to ignore it. Soon enough he gets the books in Galloden's place and becomes inspired and trys to do the Aons a flash of light then nothing. But that insiration kep him hopeful and mindful of the fact that these people were his people and gave him purpose. Rarely did we hear about his toe when he became semi-obsessed with making the Aons work again. But that is when his attacks began as the Dor built until he thought it would kill him.
Kel
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Wow. This has been pretty well covered. My question is, Amber, where were you during the copy edit for this book? :)
Raoden DID still have the disorientation. He DID still have the dizziness. I should have mentioned it, but in my mind, he simply pushed through it, forcing himself onward despite his ailments. I probably should have acknowledged his dizziness at the near end, before he completed the Chasm line for Elantris. There was a lot going on there, however, and I imagine Raoden pretty much being in a general haze for all of those sections. He's virtually gone, his mind overcome, but he has managed to focus on getting one last task done before he gives up. Kind of like a Hoed continuing one of their mantras--but in him, the mantra became "Finish the Chasm Line!"
As for why he felt the pain differently, that has been covered. It was a result of practicing the Aons so much and the Dor trying to push its way through him.
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Thank you Brandon :)
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Its probably one of those- you can overcome mountains if you just believe in yourself- things. And, of course- wasn't like the rest of the Elantrians. He was very special...I mean- hell, he Loved Sarene.
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*Unholy thread necromancy!
Hello everyone. I just finished the book Elantris (in German) and something has struck me as very odd. I did look for an explanation on the website and did a forum search, but didn't find anything.
So here's the deal (spoiler warning still active):
- The Dor is broken because the Aons lack the chasm line to function.
- Elantris and the four outlying cities form the Aon Rao
- Raoden wants to add the chasm line with his stick
Right so far?
Good, then here's my question:
Why the doloken does he add the chasm line in the city of KAE???
My friend who gave me the book spontaneously answered that he did it in Elantris, but I found at least three references that Raoden did, in fact, run to Kae and scratch in the line there. I won't bother with the page numbers since I have the German edition anyway, but you'll find them in this very chapter.
According to the map, the chasm lies east of the lake. Thus, the Aons should be completed by a line between the dot and the right vertical line. Which in this case, would mean right inside Elantris, between the city centre and the wall.
So I repeat my question, why does he fix the line in Kae, way way outside the Elantris walls?
Besides, I'm kinda amazed nobody seems to have noticed this before.
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Clovenhoof, Brandon just put up a new page at his website talking about the progression of the map design: http://www.brandonsanderson.com/book/Elantris/page/50/Elantris-Map-Progression
A small quote from the end: However, by zooming in, we heightened the problem with the mountains and the chasm not quite matching the shape they needed to in order to be spot on with the climax of the story.
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This is actually related to several problems. The first is the one Ookla discussed--the map in the front of the book, because of errors on my part, just didn't end up looking like it needed in order to match the text.
If I ever get to do a re-issue version of Elantris, I'll try to get the lake moved over and the mountains shaped a little bit more like they need to. The big problem is the Chasm, which is supposed to run at the bottom of the shape of Aon Aon and cut over across the steppes. And, to make it easier to understand, I might change it so that the line drawn on the ground doesn't run into Kae--but into the other city BELOW Elantris.
The real issue here is me being forced to stretch plausibility slightly in order to get Raoden into the position he needed to be in order to draw that line. I wrote ELANTRIS early in my career, and I just wasn't as polished as I am now at making things fit together in my endings.
Edit: Also, note. The Chasm line happens at the bottom right corner of the original Aon, so by my figuring it would occur just outside of Elantris, to the southeast. Not inside the city, but just beyond the walls. However, by what the map reads right now, it should indeed be inside the city--so you're exactly right.
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I understand. ;) Thanks for the heads-up. And good luck with your new endeavours. =)
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On the lines of Elantris oddities...
Just finished the book, thoroughly enjoyed it, and my nitpicking in no way weakens said enjoyment, but one thing that stood out to me was how the Elantrians ate. Without blood pumping through their body, how did they digest food? Brandon mentions at some point that their digestive systems were working again, but that seems a rather difficult proposition to me.