Timewaster's Guide Archive
General => Suggestions Box => Topic started by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on December 12, 2006, 04:00:22 PM
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In case you haven't noticed (and you haven't probably because I've been bad about sticking to it) TWG is no longer an every weekday publication. I'm officially shooting for a MWF schedule. Once I get back int he rhythm this shouldn't be too hard.
However, I'm wondering what people feel about content. 90% (or more) of what we've gotten lately have been books and movies. I like books. I like movies. However, TWG has historically been about games first and books and movies second. I have no problem with raising the prominance of movies and books, but we've almost completely dropped games from our line up.
Seriously, we ran a column in webcomics over two months ago (Oct 10th); Tower of Cheapness's last contribution was back in February (it's the same as the most recent article for Video Games); Tabletop had something May, but it was a very tiny review, the last real review was a week before it; RPGs is a little better, we've had 3 of those since the beginning of October. The last CCG article was in April.
So, do you guys see this as a movie/book review site? if not, how do you suggest we get mroe material. My sources have dried up. Most of my regular contributors of review materials have stopped sending stuff and don't respond to my queries. Are you interested in original content? If so, what would you like to see? What would it take to get more of you to contribute regularly and in different areas?
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One of the problems is we've gone from actually getting review material to having to review our own stuff game wise. Now Wizards and Palladium still send us stuff and so does NCsoft but the problem with getting review materials is that it requires a lot of work/time for Fell or you SE and that's something neither of you have.
Also the Google money hasn't been used much for buying review material, it's gone towards hosting costs, sending people to cons and buying magic cards for a few people. I've tried to attach a requirement to that money that if you get any you have to write articles about whatever that money was used for and despite the cash spent we have yet to get a single review from it that I'm aware of.
There are currently about 5-6 D&D books floating around that we've gotten but haven't been reviewed, I have two, Micha has 2 I believe and Fell has the rest. edit: oh, and 42 has one as well.
Now on my end I've been trying to work in ways to encourage people to support the main site via forum rewards, not sure if it's something that will catch on but hopefully it will.
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I obviously can't speak for anyone else, but I have trouble reviewing even movies and books due to time constraints. I just don't have time to play games anymore. The only game I play is FEAR combat.
I suppose I could review that... goes off to think about it.
Generally, games take way more time to get to the point where you could honestly review them than books and movies. I think that's the main problem. Our regulars all have fuller lives than they did when the site started or when they first started contributing.
I think the answer is to start recruiting.
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Also the Google money hasn't been used much for buying review material, it's gone towards hosting costs, sending people to cons and buying magic cards for a few people. I've tried to attach a requirement to that money that if you get any you have to write articles about whatever that money was used for and despite the cash spent we have yet to get a single review from it that I'm aware of.
I've used my google money to buy Civil War comics, which I talked about in Page 33 before I cancelled it. We don't actually get that much after paying for expenses.
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Good, glad to see some of that being used. Ya I should have mentioned that a good chunk of the money went to hosting costs.
I pretty much stopped review Video Games because I feel they're a dime a dozen now-a-days and there's no real way that I know of to make mine, or TWG's for that point, to stand out against everyone else's.
I'd love to get back into the TWGventure stuff and some other original content but that is time consuming, and useally doesn't bring up much intrest in our members besides a few people. The big problem right now, and this isn't meant as an insult to anyone so please don't take it that way, is the new members and people that have become active (or are the new forum regulars) aren't intrested in games. Nessa, Shrain, and the others don't care that much about them, it's books, movies that intrest them. Then you've got all the new people coming because of EUOL and you're adding even more books/movie fans and less of the others.
Right now the people I know that are intrested in games are SE, Fell, 42, Entropy and I then a few sub regulars like Eagle Prince and Jeffe (he's just not on as much as he use to be). That's not a lot anymore.
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Well, I think we all know I've never really been interested in the game side of things, and even if I was more interested, working for Wizards kind of disqualifies me as a game reviewer. I don't even want to write book reviews anymore because it feels like a conflict of interest to do it for a third-party site, so when I do reviews, I generally just post them on my LJ and use them to illustrate something about what it means to write well.
Now, TWG is welcome to pick up any reviews I do that might be of interest, but I'm thinking the way I do reviews now aren't as much of interest as when I was in grad school.
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Now on my end I've been trying to work in ways to encourage people to support the main site via forum rewards, not sure if it's something that will catch on but hopefully it will.
Yes, and it's a cool idea. The only thing? Are the Fell points being handed out regularly? That would affect feeling 'encouraged'. I know SE has posted 3 of my reviews since the update and I haven't gotten any points yet and I would really love to be able to buy an award or something, 'cause I'm greedy that way. (I really am trying to be patient as Fell and Sprig figure out how this all is going to work...)
Sprig's point about the 'new regulars' is a good one. Although SE balks at only posting movie/book reviews, it shouldn't surprise him that it's the kind of thing most of the new regulars are interested in. Case in point: the Writer's Group section has been pretty active for the last year or so, with many members coming and going. Most of those people would be more interested in books vs video games (not in every case, but you get my point).
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i only balk because, frankly, that's why I am falling short as the content poster. Frankly, a site that does almost no games and is over 66% movies I'll never see and book reviews (whether i will read them or not) isn't a site that maintains my interest enough to run.
The site has changed a lot. a year and a half ago, not a single person would have flipped out about the april fool's day prank we ran. This year, 90% of the people who reacted to it were pissed at me.
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If SE has no interest in posting, I would be willing to, um, help with the job. That is, if he wants help.
The site has changed a lot. a year and a half ago, not a single person would have flipped out about the april fool's day prank we ran. This year, 90% of the people who reacted to it were pissed at me.
But you still thought it was hilarious.
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yes, but the everybody being pissed about it certainly was a downer.
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Now on my end I've been trying to work in ways to encourage people to support the main site via forum rewards, not sure if it's something that will catch on but hopefully it will.
Yes, and it's a cool idea. The only thing? Are the Fell points being handed out regularly? That would affect feeling encouraged. I know SE has posted 3 of my reviews since the update and I haven't gotten any points yet and I would really love to be able to buy an award or something, 'cause I'm greedy that way. (I really am trying to be patient as Fell and Sprig figure out how this all is going to work...)
No, you probably won't see people getting FP for things aside from awards until next year same with being able to spend said FP.
People will be compensated for back FP to a certain period that we haven't determined yet, but I can say those three you've submitted will get you 9 points when we award them.
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It would seem that blogs are where its at. Maybe think about setting TWG's front page up like a blog or something. One for each section. Although, you'd need someone who would be dedicated to that page, plus maybe one or two others who would contribute every-so-often.
Just a thought, a suggestion. Something to consider. In sucha faster pacing world nowadays it would seem that review sites are floundering.
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I do intend to get back to Geek Girl eventually, if it's still wanted. I've had a hellish six months, and this month is psycho busy, but I haven't abandoned the idea entirely. Not that this probably affects decisions about the site; I just wanted to give a heads up.
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Maybe recruit new blood, like recent TLE or Quark graduates. Somehow.
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we love Geek Girl, Fish. Whenever you can do them, submit them and we'll run them.
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Okay. I will, really. Just not today.
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Even letting TLE peoples and Quarkies know that TWG exists would probably help. When I was in Quark and went to TLE two or three times I never even heard of it. The only reason I found it was because of Brandon's site. And Geek Girl convinced me to lurk rather than wandering back out again. So definately more of that. ^^ LTUE would also be a good recruiting place. Get a booth or run the gaming room or something. *shrugs* Wouldn't be that hard. Heck, some of you probably run/ran LTUE.
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And the few of us on panels might think to mention it occasionally, if we have the right opportunity. I can't imagine it coming up on the subject of children's lit... but then again, it might be a good place to suggest looking for a writing group that would welcome fantasy, which can be hard to find sometimes. Not as hard while still on campus, but some people come to that from the community, not just campus.
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I quite like pie.
And i'd noticed this myself: not many of the reviews hitting the front page are ones I choose to click on. These days my preferred aim for TWG would be tabletop, RPG's and movies/books, since I agree with spriggan that we don't have anything like the resources or people to cover computer gaming with any degree of comprehensiveness. Tabletop games and RPG's tend to be more static, in that a review coming in 6 months late for them isn't too bad, whereas nobody even cares by that point for a videogame. The brothers manage to hit a lot of the movies fairly quickly so we are doing quite well on that front. I'd also like to see a few columns on items of general interest to the RPG/tabletop crowd, such as that column back in the day that was a summary of GNS theory. Possible ideas: comparison notes between the old and new WoD games and some ideas on bringing old material forward for them; the general trends in the wargaming market and which of the historical games are doing best; a column looking at licenced RPG's (ie, star wars, star trek, serenity) and their seemingly doomed nature; speculation on D&D 4e based on the current way wizards is tweaking the 3.5 rules (ie, the addition of Swift actions) rules in their book releases. I could only do a few of those columns myself, since I don't know the subject matter involved. But they would be impressive things to show us as more than just a by-the-numbers review house.
All this reminds me, I should do that Three-Dragon-Ante review sometime.
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I'm interested in the games, particularly ones that I can introduce to my children, but I'm most interested in writing information.
I'd be pleased to see a regular, brief column on Writing -- the whole range of writing topics, from grammar tips to the psychology of writing. Perhaps even a tips from an editor saying "Don't do this" or "here is the best way to submit in this situation."
I'll probably post some of my own thoughts in the Writing forum from time to time but think it would be cool to have someone qualified write a regular column. Geek Girl's column has included some great writing stuff from time to time. And McFish is always fun to read. Is anyone else interested in supplying us with that sort of writing advice?
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the problem with a writing column is that it's not very "authoritative" unless it's written by a professional writer (and I wouldn't count my technical writing), and a professional writer has too many good things to do.
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Perhaps even a tips from an editor saying "Don't do this" or "here is the best way to submit in this situation."
We could beg the ever-lovely stacer to do this idea...
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Well, I kind of already do this with my professional livejournal. I'd be glad to do an occasional piece, but I couldn't commit to something regular. My life is rather crazy right now. Perhaps a question-answer column, and as questions come up, I could answer them? I've started doing frequently asked questions on my LJ and I think it's been pretty successful.
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You could allways just repost your stuff from your Live Journal, that's fairly common with sites now days.
As for Hauf's article, while I tend to agree with SE on these things, I do think there's a way for us to work out some good article here. Defiantly not an "authoritative" (would EUOL even qualify for that? I'm sure he'd say no) but he could do things like "Why writing groups?", "Where to get ideas?", "organization" and stuff like that. None of it is stuff that you need to be published to know but at the same time it's stuff an experienced writer (even a hobbyist) would know but still not be the last word.
Or maybe he can hold a discussion in his Writing group once a month and have everyone come up with a paragraph answer to what ever he asks and we can run that.
And Entropy, Fell, SE and I all agree with you and there have been some discussions on how to bring those two departments back to life. As for CCG, I think we need a True Resurrection scroll for that but no one here has the GP to buy one nor any levels in Cleric.
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You're mixing games again sprig (but at least your metaphor was consistant).
EUOL, as a published writer -- one who has written the dozens of manuscripts he has, inherently has more authority on the subject of writing than a (relatively) unpracticed writer. Whether that makes him fully "authoritative" is moot, but I like to quibble. Whatever his feelings, people would see him as much more authoritative than someone like... me ... and probably even Fish.
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I'm not making that argument SE, I was making one against the word "authoritative" since I hate it.
But to be honest what makes any of us have the right to write the articles we do? Fish isn't a game designer nor am I or 42 so why should we be writing articles on how to play games, by your standards the only people who should be giving out GM advice are the people who made the game. Same with you on Comics, sure you've done research on them but that's no different then all the endless writing classes others have taken, you're not published so why should you be writing articles on comics? It's simple, because these are things we like to do and have some sort of passion for the subject.
If hauf wants to do a writing article let him, it's no different from any of us doing a Nerdery, Page #33, Wargame or any of the other articles that have appeared here.
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I don't see how that parallels
We talk about how to run games -- this is something that is done by amateurs primarily. We give advice on being amateur game masters.
I talk about issues in interpretation of comics and how to *read* them. I have never written a column on how to create a comic.
we write reviews about how a product can be used -- not made.
These are fundamentally different than an advice column on how to write, if we're speaking in terms of trying professionally.
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There are lots of people out there who write articles and books and teach classes on how to write who really are not professional writers. My Creative Writing 219 class at BYU was taught by a guy who had never published an actually work of fiction. He had published one poem decades earlier and had published several papers on literary criticism.
I honestly think that if someone is willing to write a series of articles about the writing craft, then we should let them. However, they should be advised that if they try make themselves out to be more than they are (such as a best-selling author or something like that) then TWG retains the right to refuse to run his or her articles.
I just don't see people taking TWG seriously enough that they will take away our non-existant accreditation over having an unpublished author writing about how to write fiction. There really is no official organization out there that could do that.
It would be nice for the person writing the articles to have something that gives them more credibility. But this could be anything from being published, to having an English degree, to having tutored English, to having read a book once. All lend some credibility--some more than others. IMO, TWG only needs a moderate level of credibility--we're not a major web-site that depends on being mostly-accurate (like MSNews and the like), but we'd like to be a little more than some teenage girl's blogspot.
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There are lots of people out there who write articles and books and teach classes on how to write who really are not professional writers. My Creative Writing 219 class at BYU was taught by a guy who had never published an actually work of fiction. He had published one poem decades earlier and had published several papers on literary criticism.
See, I would never take that class. There are many sources of writing advice and education more freely available and more trustworthy than a college course taught by someone who hasn't published.
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I would agree with you SE if that class turned into a how to get published lesson (like Dave's class was when EUOL and I took it, but there was very little on how to write in that class) but anyone who's studied it enough can instruct on proper writing methods and techniques usually better then those that are published themselves since authors aren't trained teachers and many have a hard time explaining how they do things. I'll bring up Dave's class and say I didn't learn anything but why agents are good in that class, he'd try to explain things but after a few weeks it just became "just write" and not much else on the "how to do things" end.
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Does the column on writing have to be written by the same person every time? Because I think we've got adequate resources to write lots of authoritative articles about writing. Stacer could write some, I could write some, EUOL could write some, Eric James Stone could write some, Matthew Buckley could write some. If we all focus on our specialties, we could all be authoritative--and, since we're only writing a few articles each, the time burden wouldn't be bad.
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*That* is a feature I would read regularly.
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Yeah, MoH's idea is a good one. I like it.
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EUOL mentioned that he might be able to swing this every once and a while so someone needs to contact Buckley and EJS to see if they're intrested also aren't there a few other authors that pop-up once and a while like egg-fu? Heck we should get Sclazi and have him do a point, counter-point with EUOL.
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I don't think egg-fu has been around much, but I could let him know that you're interested in him participating and have him check out the thread.
And I could help out, too--mainly I'd say it'd be pulled together from what's on my LJ, like we talked about above, but I don't get too much cross-reading, I don't think. Or I could try to come up with something new and just post it both places eventually.
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Don't forget Guitarbabe.
She's abandoned us apparently but she might be lured back.
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Guitarbabe still is writing, and I think her next book is coming out in the first half of 07. I talk to her every once in a while, and I'm sure she'd be in.
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Here's an idea. We haven't had a con report in a while. Someone should do a con report of LTUE next month. I could gather my notes from my main address and let you guys post them after the con (I'll be putting them on my LJ, too, anyway). If other people reported on other main addresses and/or panels, it might make for an interesting mix of fan stuff and writing stuff.
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We should dress Fell up in his Mime outfit and do a video taped LTUE report as seen by a mime.
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That idea is indeed, worth it's weight in gold!
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And I could help out, too--mainly I'd say it'd be pulled together from what's on my LJ, like we talked about above, but I don't get too much cross-reading, I don't think. Or I could try to come up with something new and just post it both places eventually.
Stacer I'm perfectly fine with you mirroring stuff from your blog here or vice versa and I don't think SE or Fell would complain, we can just do like what news readers do or other sites and mention it's from your blog somewhere.
So how often are we looking at this? Once a week, twice a month? And who's going to do our first/intro article?
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I can say that I wouldn't complain at all. Unless it said mean things about me. Then I would complain in the form of Ninja Monkey Assassination.
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Oops. I'll go delete those entries now...
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too late. As soon as I said it the monkeys began their research.
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Well, at least don't assasinate stacer until after LTUE. I want to be able to say goodbye in person.
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So what's the status of our author/writing article(s)? And what can I do to help speed things along.
Also again, anyone who want to write something for TWG we will work with you to get it done, I'm not going to turn away anyone who wants to do something.
Reasons to write:
1) Looks good (and I mean really good) on a resume. Many of us owe jobs at least partially to TWG (I got one almost solely off my work here).
2) Good way to share views/thoughts on a subject. Lots of people don't like to read long forum posts but they'll read a long article.
3) Fell will make fun of you more if you do, and who doesn't love attention for him?
Of course no one has to write anything and I'm not trying to guilt anyone into writing something but if you have been wanting to add to your resume or just like to write then let us know.
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You're welcome to point to a particular entry on my LJ that might be of use, or I'll be able to think more about it next week after I can start breathing again. It's ALA Midwinter this weekend and it's going to be a crazy week. Also, I'm in the midst of planning my speech for LTUE, which I'll be glad to share notes from once it's over. So you at least have a promise of one week in late Feb. from me.
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I'd be interested in writing something, but I I'd have to come up with a topic, first.
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My schedule is opening up again for more writing. I'm reviewing games for another site, one of those ones that pay you...heh...but I can bring some of that across here as well. I can do some stuff on indie games and gaming as well. I'm sure I have other bits and pieces that can come up too. I've just been bad about getting stuff up and going, but part of my New Years Reflections and Goals have to do with more frequent posting.
~J