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Local Authors => Writing Group => Topic started by: EUOL on June 10, 2004, 12:49:23 AM

Title: Help me name a book
Post by: EUOL on June 10, 2004, 12:49:23 AM
Okay, so here's the thing.  I want to write a sequel to ELANTRIS someday--or, at least, I want to leave myself open to the possibility.  

The first book is named after the city of Elantris, where most of the action takes place.  The sequel, set ten years after the first book, will take place in the capitol city of the prime antagonists in the series.  For cohesion, this book should probably be named after that city.

So, here's the problem.  Usually I have months and months to settle on a book title, and I'm usually pretty happy with what I get.  However, I don't have an opportunity to write the book this time before I name it.  I mention the city that will be the title of the next book several times in ELANTRIS.  I have to make certain I really like this city name now, since I'll probably name a book after it sometime in the future.

So, I've been digging for ideas.  The country the book will take place in is called 'Fjorden.'  As you might guess from that name, the dialectical genre of the culture is a Scandinavian spin-off.  (It's kind of a guttural Norse--Scandinavian with some harsh Germanic sounds thrown in.)

Other words in the language:

Hrathen
Dilaf
Arteth
Dakhor
Grondkest
Svorden

I need a name for the new city that would work well as a book title (i.e., it needs to be fairly easy to pronounce, and needs to sound cool) but that still fits with the linguistic style of the region.

Here are some I've come up with so far.  What do you think of these?  Which is your favorite?  Which don't you like?

Zinareth  
Widor
Velding
Klynair
Valinrath
Skaln
Vallensha
Vallinor  


Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: fuzzyoctopus on June 10, 2004, 01:13:29 AM
First of all - what's the current name of the city?  What's in the text right now?


Zinareth  
Widor (doesn't look good or impressive)
Velding
Klynair  (hard to pronounce from sight)
Valinrath (this one's good)
Skaln (one syllable=ick)

Vallensha
Vallinor  

The last two are the best- which one you choose from those, I'd ask whether you want a more masculine or feminine feel.  Elantris is more feminine as names go.  Do you want this second book/ city to sound more masculine?  Then go with Vallinor
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: EUOL on June 10, 2004, 01:26:19 AM
Fuzzy--I'll respond to your questions in a bit.  I want others to post first, and I don't want to taint the pool a bit.  

PS--I just sent you a HUGE email.  Sorry.  Guess I'm feeling chatty today....
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: 42 on June 10, 2004, 01:48:50 AM
I'd say Vallinor. It seems to be the easiest to remember.

Skaln could work, but only with a cool voice-over. Something like, "You don't think you know fear. Well, fear is coming for you. Be prepared for SKALN!"
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: Brenna on June 10, 2004, 02:49:20 AM
Of the names you've got, I like

Valinrath (sounds like a strong capital name to me)
Vallensha (this sounds more feminine, like Elantris does)

Zinareth sounds like a good name for a city, but not for a book (I'm not sure why, it's just the impression I get from it)

Vallinor is good, except that I instantly thought of "Valdemar," which is Mercedes Lackey's world.
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on June 10, 2004, 09:00:10 AM
We have the facts and we're voting "vallinor"

anyway, that's the one I like best.
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: stacer on June 10, 2004, 09:32:58 AM
I like Skaln or Vallinor. Both have a consonantal quality to them that I like.
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: Spriggan on June 10, 2004, 09:34:39 AM
how 'bout Skaln of Vallinor, that's a cool name for a person.
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: Entsuropi on June 10, 2004, 09:45:43 AM
Hrathen <- not bad
Dilaf <- bad
Arteth <- moderate
Dakhor <- bad, and confusing to pronounce
Grondkest  <- i like this one, but it sounds very gutteral... might give the wrong impression of the book.
Svorden  <- a slight tad too boring, but could work


Zinareth   <- doesnt sound scandanavian at all. But its not that bad.
Widor <- boring.
Velding <- too boring.
Klynair  <- sounds like an aircraft company.
Valinrath <- doesnt sound like a city name, and sounds very stereotypically fantasy
Skaln <- not powerful enough, and its close to Skald, which is a type of bard.
Vallensha <- sounds like a female characters name
Vallinor    <- LoTR ripoff. Valinor (1 L) is the name of the undying land in middle-earth, and is copyrighted i believe.

Hope that helps.
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: stacer on June 10, 2004, 11:28:10 AM
Quote

Vallinor    <- LoTR ripoff. Valinor (1 L) is the name of the undying land in middle-earth, and is copyrighted i believe.



I thought it sounded familiar.
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on June 10, 2004, 12:01:54 PM
Yes - nix the Vallinor.

If you don't mind waiting I could bust out my Danish dictionaries when I get home (I have three) and come up with some cool-sounding authentic Scandinavian words that you could mess with.
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: fuzzyoctopus on June 10, 2004, 01:39:32 PM
Kije, please do.  Or, I could bust out "Citizen of the Galaxy" and see what I can come up with (they speak Finnish on the one ship)

If we like Vallinor so much, all we've got to do is change the vowels, kids.  It's not that hard to get around copyrights, especially when it's not something that we all immediately recognized, (ie it took a LoTR expert to put a finger on where they'd heard it.)
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on June 10, 2004, 01:52:02 PM
Finnish isn't really Viking though. You want swedes and Norwegians for htat. FOr example, the Finnish word for Finland is "Suomi." It's probably not the gutteral sound EUOL was looking for.
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: fuzzyoctopus on June 10, 2004, 02:10:43 PM
Which is probably why I like Finnish better than any of the harsher languages.

I'll let Kije do his thing
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on June 10, 2004, 03:38:27 PM
Yeah - Norse, Swedes, and Danes all think the Finns are a little goofy.  I'm sure the sentiment is returned.
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on June 10, 2004, 03:48:06 PM
well, the Finns used to be Swedes. Until they broke their empire in half and gave part to the Russians. Half of that territory that is considered Finnish is STILL part of Russia. That's the origin of the great Finnish patriotic quote:
"We are no longer Swedes. We can never be Russians. Let us then be Finns!"
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: EUOL on June 10, 2004, 05:53:09 PM
Hum.  Too bad about Vallinor.  It didn't get anything on a google, but that's because Tolkien did it with one 'l.'

I still like the 'Vall' sound, however.  I need to do something with that.  It reminds me of Valkyrie and Valhalla, both good 'Norse sounding' names (that's actually where I came up with it.)

I'll play with it some more.  

(One early thought:  Vallinah.)
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: Gemm: Rock & Roll Star; Born to Rock on June 10, 2004, 06:42:24 PM
Vallosch or Vallocsh. See, letters do matter.
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: EUOL on June 10, 2004, 08:08:58 PM
So, what do you guys think of these options?

Valladar/Vallador

Vallanos/Vallatos

Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: fuzzyoctopus on June 10, 2004, 08:26:58 PM
If it's being narrowed down to that, then the question I ask myself is "Which title would make me more likely to pick up the book from a shelf?"

I'm having a hard time choosing between Valladar and Vallador.

Isn't the title of this book "The Spirit of Elantris" or has it officially been shortened to Elantris?  Will the second book be similar - "The Redemption of Vallador" ?
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: EUOL on June 10, 2004, 08:34:47 PM
It has been shortened simply to ELANTRIS.

And, getting back to your other questions, the original (in-text) name of the city was 'Widor.'  Back then, however, I wasn't thinking of a sequel.  

And yes, I do want the name to sound more masculine.  And just a bit ominous, if possible.

We don't have to narrow it down to those four above, if you've got better ideas (or if you like something from the original list more.)  However, I'm really leaning toward a 'Valla' name.  
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: Entsuropi on June 10, 2004, 08:39:52 PM
Vallatos is nice.
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: 42 on June 10, 2004, 09:22:30 PM
Vallatos sounds nice.

In Portuguese, Vallador means "Hedger."
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: GorgonlaVacaTremendo on June 10, 2004, 09:58:05 PM
Valladro?  Valladra?  Valliray?

I kinda like those.  I like Vallador too, though.
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: fuzzyoctopus on June 10, 2004, 10:04:14 PM
Hedger as in someone who trims hedges, or as in someone who hedges his bets?
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: 42 on June 10, 2004, 10:14:37 PM
both.
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on June 10, 2004, 10:16:55 PM
the hedger of many small villages.
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: fuzzyoctopus on June 10, 2004, 10:50:43 PM
You mean it has both meanings in portuguese too?  Like mill is molino and arremolinar is "to mill about" in spanish?

That rocks.
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: stacer on June 11, 2004, 12:58:32 AM
I like the sound of Vallidor.
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on June 11, 2004, 07:41:44 AM
vallanos/vallatos sound too latinate

one thought: Vallahal. twisting the Valhalla thing around. If it's supposed to be ominous, Valheim.
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: Entsuropi on June 11, 2004, 08:27:16 AM
-heim is german.

I say this by dint of some of the cities in the (german influenced) Warhammer Empire ending in -heim. Middenheim, Mordheim, etc.
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on June 11, 2004, 09:07:28 AM
actually, -heim is Nordic. Go look up your Norse mythology place names.
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: Entsuropi on June 11, 2004, 12:41:33 PM
Screw you gramps

:P
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on June 11, 2004, 12:49:26 PM
you're just mad because I'm right and won't shut up about it.
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on June 11, 2004, 01:28:11 PM
Sorry, I'mlate with these, but I got a couple of lists.  First, I took antagonistic words and found their Danish counterparts:

sword, svaerd
pike, spyd
evil, onde, ondskab
wicked, slem, modbydelig
terror, skraek, raedsel
oppress, undertrykke, tynge
kill, draebe, odelaegge, sla ihjel
fortress, faestning
castle, slot, borg, tarn
ash, aske
mountain, bjerg
slave, trael
terrible, frygtelig

Next, I just scanned the Danish half of the dictionary for interesting-sounding words:

afsked, dismissal
afskraekke, deter
belemre, encumber
dekret, decree
deslige, such
endda, even
eskadre, squadron
fersk, fresh, insipid
flormelis, icing sugar
gnidret, cramped
gaerde, fence
hvalros, walrus
indromme, admit, confess
jomfru, virgin
kollidere, collide
krakilsk, quarrelsome
laend, loin
medregne, include
menneske, man, human
nekrolog, obituary
oberst, colonel
praksis, practice
regnskab, account
raekvaerk, balustrade
selleri, cellery
skjold, shield
skrot, scrap (iron)
saedvane, custom
talsmand, spokesman, advocate
tjaere, tar
tjorn, hawthorn
udrydde, exterminate
uvejr, storm
videnskab, science
velfaerd, welfare
aevl, rubbish
orkeslos, idle, vain, futile
arvagen, alert, watchful

Of course with the Danish words I had to modify some slightly to accomodate the English lack of certain Scandinavian letters.  I did also find the only "valla" entry in my Hippocrene Practical Danish-English Dictionary:

vallak, gelding
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on June 11, 2004, 02:03:50 PM
lol on valla.

faestning would be a cool name.

nekrolog has to share some roots with greco-latin words. Necro=death and log/logos=word/words/writing
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: Entsuropi on June 11, 2004, 02:40:43 PM
Quote
faestning


That sounds really familiar...
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: Mistress of Darkness on June 14, 2004, 03:32:42 PM
I really like Vallahal.
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: EUOL on June 14, 2004, 04:34:51 PM
Vallahal is a bit too close to Valhalla, I think.  Right now, however, I'm really leaning toward "Vallakor."  Any thoughts on this name?
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on June 14, 2004, 04:44:15 PM
hrm. It's alright. I'm liking some of the other suggestions more, myself. but maybe I'll just use 'em. I don't hate Vallakor, and so I think th big thing is that you are comfortable with it.
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: Mistress of Darkness on June 14, 2004, 06:37:13 PM
I think I would give "Vallakor" a 3 on a scale of 1 to 5 (1 = buy the book on title alone--assuming I didn't already know the author).

I don't generally get excited about one word book titles. And if the book is in a bookstore with only the spine showing, the title is the first contact with a consumer who is unfamiliar with an author. (okay, that a duh moment). Are there any stats about one word versus multi-word titles?
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: fuzzyoctopus on June 14, 2004, 07:52:03 PM
It sounds good to me.  You're the one whose opinion matters, since we wouldn't want to have you regretting the title of your book.
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: Entsuropi on June 14, 2004, 07:59:06 PM
Vallakor i do not like.
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: EUOL on June 14, 2004, 08:15:29 PM
Hum.  Everyone seems to agree with you, Entropy.  So, are we back to Vallidor/Vallador?
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on June 14, 2004, 08:42:59 PM
Vall(a/i)dor does not sound particularly Germanic or Scandinavian to me, but it sounds alright...It doesn't really sound evil or antagonistic, though.  Sounds kind of heroic, now that I think about it.
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: stacer on June 14, 2004, 08:45:39 PM
It sounds like a related word to "valiant" to me.
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: EUOL on June 14, 2004, 10:02:56 PM
'Val' is the Scandinavian part I'm looking for.  And, if I can't get "Cool and ominous" I'd rather go for "Cool and heroic" as opposed to "Medium-cool and definitely Scandinavian."
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on June 14, 2004, 10:08:57 PM
I reiteriate my "valheim" suggestion
which I think is cool, the tiniest bit ominous, and definitely scandinavian
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: EUOL on June 14, 2004, 10:16:35 PM
I've added that one to the list.  It's actually rather cool.  I'm not completely sold, but I like the suggestion.

My roommate likes "Vallinost," which is in a slightly similar vein.
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on June 14, 2004, 10:22:50 PM
hrm..

-nost sounds more like a city, imo. -heim is a land
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: EUOL on June 14, 2004, 10:24:35 PM
Uh...

We're looking for a city name.  Or, is that what you were saying?
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on June 14, 2004, 10:34:37 PM
yeah, that's what I'm saying. Despite my massive ego, I'm suggesting someone else's idea is a better choice.
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: Mistress of Darkness on June 15, 2004, 04:43:02 PM
I agree with Saint.
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: Lieutenant Kije on June 15, 2004, 04:57:38 PM
Valkrieg
Valladon
Valnost (as opposed to Vallanost)
Valtyrn(e)
Valerka
Valrekka
Valrosk
Valneyra
Valterat
Vallaskyr
Vallaban(e)

just brainstorming with the "val"
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: Shuez on December 08, 2006, 01:20:29 PM
Hello Brandon,

Just finished Elantris and was profoundly delighted by your book. As a writer myself, I strongly agree with the sentiments about using a 'guttural' or 'masculine' name for Wryn's capital.

Here is my 2 cents worth:

Valagoth

Vallanok

Valenkell or Valtenkell

Valnordak

Rostgatha, Rugatha, Vrogatha

That is all for now. I hope to see you at the Seattle signing tomorrow.

Sincerely,

R.S.D
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: Oldie Black Witch on December 09, 2006, 02:12:05 AM
Oh no! It's alive! And it's after my brains!
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: Spriggan on December 09, 2006, 02:18:28 AM
You do realize that this thread is over 2 years old Shuez right?  So even if we didn't have rules about thread Necromancy this decision was made a long time ago, but since you're and eager-beaver you can hop over to Brandon's thread and participate in the Warbreaker discussion where you get to comment on a book as he writes it.
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: MsFish on December 09, 2006, 06:54:01 AM
Wow.  That was almost nice.  Sprig's losing his touch.
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: Archon on December 09, 2006, 07:05:07 AM
EUOL doesn't like it when we rip too heavily on his fans, so we relax out of courtesy to him.
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: Shuez on December 09, 2006, 12:16:45 PM
I just told him tonight at his Seattle reading that I posted in this thread...he did not seem mortified  ;)
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: Spriggan on December 09, 2006, 05:18:53 PM
Yes, but it's not "mortifying" him you have to worry about, you need to worry about annoying all the other forum regulars who I assure you are.  Also I doubt EUOL, or Brandon as you know him, even remembers this thread exists he tends to forget anything that hasn't happened in the past 3 months so he probably thought you were talking about something in his forum.  But anyway you're breaking forum rules by posting in a thread 2 years old and while I'm being nice about it I can guarantee that if you keep doing it that will change.

I suggest reading the FAQ, http://www.timewastersguide.com/forum/index.php?topic=11.0,  and avoid snide talk back to admins and other forum members after only being here for a few days.
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: MsFish on December 09, 2006, 06:44:27 PM
This is seriously threatening my worldview.
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: Archon on December 10, 2006, 03:09:30 AM
Hey, the first 8-10 newbies that made stupid posts got smacked up. It's just that EUOL and a few others kept coming to their rescue, so that there really isn't much point anymore.
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: Spriggan on December 10, 2006, 08:32:33 AM
Plus with the new forum we have the ability to assign people so they can only access EUOL's forum if they can't play nicely with everyone else.
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: Chimera on December 10, 2006, 10:20:52 PM
Ooo. Nice feature. I'm all for that for the really annoying ones.
Title: Re: Help me name a book
Post by: Shrain on December 11, 2006, 05:50:47 PM
Cooool. We can put 'em on a leash 'til they behave.  heheh