Timewaster's Guide Archive
Alternate Realities => TW(i)G => Topic started by: The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers on October 25, 2003, 05:16:54 PM
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The general write-up has been completed, barring any last minute changes or corrections from Fell and the gang. You should see it early next week.
Two things:
First, Since this is about 9 pages of material, I'd like to make it a set of 8 documents, interlinked. What's the best way to do this Sprig/Tage/Fell? Should I just code it the way I want it to look, and you can plug it into the template with the menu and title bar?
Also, this means we're ready for volunteers for the next step: There are six regions/nations and 3 empires that need more detail on their politics, cities, geography, and peoples. I'm thinking that we don't really need more than one or two people doing a region or empire. Spriggan has volunteered to coordinate this effort so we don't screw up the continuity, and I think I'll assist him so we can both make sure it stays close to the vision we had. Spriggan and I will each be taking an empire to start with. We need volunteers to put more detail into this.
Here's the list of expansions we need to start thinking about as well:
The North (you'll understand when you read the description)
The Deep South (a surprise that our team, mostly Spriggan and I, decided on just in the last couple days)
A monster field guide, sort of a horticulture/field manual for beasts, though this might want to wait till after we have a system, so it can include stats.
On that note, we can probably start working out mechanics now. I think Fell wants to be in on that, and I don't. So I'm going to nominate Fell as head of the committee, and let him choose how many people and how they'll work it out.
So.
Volunteers? Once the setting description is posted, we'd also like to know what region or country you want to work with.
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I'm in. Feel free to assign me if you like. My preferences, if I have them, will never be strong for any one thing.
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(Unless you're making W.S. part of it. I guess that tends to bring out some of my stronger opinions.)
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Ya basicaly how it will work for quordination is me and SE will each take certain areas to supervise, the volunteers that take an area will then report to one of us and we'll discuss stuff. Then me and SE will check over everything and make any changes we see fit.
I think the deep south will be one of the last things that'll be worked on since its more of "expansion" then nessacery game material. And there are lots of other things that should be done before it. Of course as we work on stuff I could be more apperent it's importance.
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Oh and I'd format the pages as html, however you like, and then (Fell permitting) throwing them in the RPG section so people can read them.
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We might want to make a folder. Maybe after we have so much stuff done I'll just make some PDFs out of it, so you can download the whole thing instead of going to lots of articles. For now, I'll just send fell all the pages in HTML and bug him several times daily to get it up.
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I'm in, if you're interested. I actually know very little about all of this, but there's nothing I love more than theoretical political systems.
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we're interested. No one knows much about it yet but Sprig, Jeffe, Fell and I. It's goign to serve as our "brand." An RPG and a miniatures wargaming system will come out of it, and probably some fiction (a la Dragonlance).
You'll know more in a few days once we have it formatted and finalized.
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Sounds dope.
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And by dope, he means something Gemm is interested in as well. I'll hop onto this little train de le forge for some good times.
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If you want my help, I'm interested, and after my exams are over (a week or two) I'll have time as well.
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Ok, I guess I better get started with that formatting stuff.
But I have a Sunday School lesson to teach, so that's coming first.
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I am greatly amused by the concept of a time waster educating young religious people.
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It's worse than you think. I teach the adult Sunday School class
Now I need to go reset all my clocks and clean a living room, then I may have time to get some work done on this.
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SPeaking of time, its about 11:20 am est time, yes?
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So you want to post the setting description, but you want to break it into multiple pages? I really hate it when people do that, but I'm willing to be convinced.
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Gemm, when you posted that, yes it was close.
Fell, i'm looking to make it easy to read and refer to. Is that a convincing argument?
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For me, nothing is easier to read than a single document with a scroll bar. I hate having to jump back and forth between pages, even if it doesn't take long for them to load, and I especially hate trying to remember which page something is on. If we put it in a handy, visible format with some anchors for section headings, what's wrong with that?
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Yeah, that anchors for section headings with it all on one page sounds good.
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fine, fine, it's not like I've done it yet. The power has been out for 5 of the last 12 hours at various times, slowing me down.
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ok, it's formatted
Just linking it all up and making a table of contents
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Is this something that's going to be up on the main site, or are will it be posted somewhere else until it's all finished. (in other words, where do I look for it?)
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It'll be a featured article. I just need to finish liinking (probalby tonight) I rethought my ToC layout, and so I didn't finish and I forgot to send it to my work address, so nothing will get done on it till I'm home.
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ok. Looking forward to it!
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Well, I posted it, as an RPG article so I could continue to edit it, though it should probably be "other." that can be done before it is approved. For some reason the system removes all my + from my <font size=+1> tags. It's annoying me. I'm going to try two more things before I make you just learn to deal with two different types of headings that look the same.
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font size ="1" and font size=+1 are the same thing in later versions of HTML.
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ah, yes, but it erases the + when I submit.
THe formatting woudl work perfect (at least in IE6) except that the + is removed.
I"m just going back through and isntead of doing my small caps just using <H> tags.
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why not just change it to font size="x", that will set it to the exact TTF size that wordpro's use. Just don't forget the quotes.
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Yeah, that's going to look better
Unless I want to muck a lot with styles, which I don't
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Ok, that's annoying me
I think my browser is ignoring the size commands
Can one of you admin types take a look at that and tell me if you see different size caps n' such with the headings?
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well, I can't keep my eyes open. The headings don't look like I'd want, but I don't want to work on it anymore. The map is updated and uploaded and linked to from the article.
Fell, feel free to mess with the formatting (it might be a pain with the alternating <font size="x"> tags), but I'm hoping the headings aren't that confusing, and when everything is compiled in a PDF at the end of it all, i'll look pretty.
FYI everyone else, I am writing up the Tylerian Empire, and Sprig is starting off with Parthann and Tarth (which share a common history, so they go well together). When the article goes live, start letting us know what nation/region you want (all the empires are now taken).
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I can't seem to find it anywhere. Is it just me or is it not up yet?
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Now, when you say all the empires are taken, what do you mean? What else is there?
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it hasn't been posted. It's pending approval in the back end. I'm sure fell will approve in the next couple days.
There are three empires, and a goo half dozen or more other nations/regions.
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Heh, you said back end. :P
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I'm working on it now, but don't expect it until the end of the week.
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was wondering when it'd show up.
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I'm still up for contributing to this, and I am very interested to see what has been done so far, but this novel in a month thing might postpone any help I can give. (But only for a month.)
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heheh. What's sick is I'm hoping to still contribute several articles next month. I have a half dozen reviews to get done.
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After NaNoWriMo, I'd like to work on Silkur, if that's ok. When it comes time, let me know what you're looking for as far as content.
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Wow, you guys. You guys are unbelievable. You've put so much sweat and tears into that thing. I just can't believe it. How many of you did this part? 4? You guys, just, wow. I know, kung fu.
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actually the details and the write up were very quick. It was arguing over the basics that really took time.
Just so you know, I researched how possible/probably a small planet like that holding a breatable atmosphere would be, and we also had to find out basics about how a single central ocean like that would function. We didn't get a real global climate modeler's opinion, but the guys I talked to at the Hayden Planetarium, SETI, and elsewhere didn't seem to think it was too outrageous.
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ok, Kije having written 20+ pages got me off my tail. here's the basic description of people belonging to each element. This text will need to be plugged into the main article. so if Tage, Sprig, or Fell could swing that for me, it'd be great. Erase the paragraph for "Humans" under "Godwar battlefield" and insert this text (it stretches three posts):
Humans are different on Azmoth than on many other worlds. Several groups of angels were responsible for creating them, and they each made unique versions, suited for their elemental environments. Every person on Azmoth "belongs" to one of these elements. They're appearance and abilities are influence by this. The types of humans are completely compatible in terms of reproduction, and a human influenced by the river angels can marry a desert human and they will be biologically compatible (though their temperaments may cause difficulties). A child of such a union will inherit the elemental appearance influences and powers of ONE of the parents.
Humans dont inherit a specific personality from their element, though their mood will be influenced by the conditions and state of the closest manifestation of that element. This, at least, is what scholars have announced. The exact interpretation of this is unclear, and books have been written trying to explain it. The most obvious explanation is that sea people will become agitated, passionate, angry, or excited when a storm is affecting the shore near them, but how does this affect a sea person who is far from the coast? Scholars claim that they are influenced by the closest seashore, but that the effects are mitigated by distance. They also say that relative strength plays a part: a small copse will have less influence and work over less distance than a major forest, even if that forest is quite distant. Finally, we are told that the intensity of the conditions at the element also play into the influence. All this seems awfully complicated to the layman, since it is only obvious when the influencing conditions are near and intense, but scholars delve into it anyway.
Though the essentially human features will mix normally. Here is a basic rundown of how the elements influence humans. It should be noted that these descriptions, especially the personality influences, are far from absolute, and many exceptions can be found just by walking into even a small community of humans belonging to an element.
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(2 of 3)
River: River humans tend to have green or brown features. Sometimes even their skin will tint this way, but not often. They tend to be a bit on the lean and wiry side, but still have good strength. It is also not unusual, though uncommon, to find river humans with webbed fingers or toes. River humans can hold their breath longer than other humans, but they lack the full gills that Ocean folk retain. River people can swim against currents as if the water was standing still, which gives them a mobility in the water that matches many in boats. They are strong willed, though not stubborn, and once they decide to do something (usually the easiest solution) they stick to it. This is not to assume they are lazy, they just don't think resisting the powerful force is usually the best course. When they do decide to fight against the status quo, they tend to be relentless and energetic about it.
Ocean/Sea: The features of Ocean humans tend toward blue and grey. Many Sea humans have thoroughly grey hair even in their early twenties. They also tend to have a higher concentration of body fat, though it is distributed well and they do not look obese. The humans of many coasts can breathe water as well as air, and though they live on the land, they suffer when too dry for too long. This discomfort is far from life threatening, but enough to make them irritable. Fresh water removes some discomfort, but they claim it is less luxurious. Sea humans are capable of getting the water they need from briny and salty water, some even prefering it. This extends to some immunity to other toxins that would damage the human constitution. Ocean people are affected more by their element, especially when close to the coast, though the reaction is quite personal. Some are made more angry and some just more excited by the same storm.
Forest: Green is a predominant feature of Forest people, and almost all of them have green eyes of some shade. Some even have greenish hair, though brown is far more common. They tend to be tall and wispy, and most adults will sway slightly when standing or thinking. Those of the forests are capable of perceiving things that may not even be there, though they are often called mad. This often results in having information that others don't, especially in regards to where people are. Some few forest folk claim the trees speak to them, but most simply know it. Forest folk are given to superstition and seeing the supernatural. While they are thought of as mad, most who have spent time with a forest human are reluctant to entirely ignore what they see. This sight also refers to relationship and a higher level of observation of mannerism and details. It is difficult to hide something from a forest human, whether by lies or by concealment. They are pacifistic and difficult to rile, for the most part – unless their homes are threatened.
Jungle: Jungle humans appear very similar to forest people, though a greater variety of colors, such as red and blue, or even black show up in their eyes and coloring. They are also not quite as tall, though they have more length in their limbs than in their bodies, especially in comparison to the forest folk. Humans of the jungles of Azmoth are adapted to living in the trees, and have an amazing speed and agility. They tend to build their homes high in the trees, and often do not build ladders or stairs. A child is not considered an adult unless he or she is capable of climbing down and up without aid. Jungle folk are passionate and often vicious. They live life to the fullest, and never stay in one place for long. They don’t apply wisdom very much, but they like to learn and know and hear and experience. They are very territorial and have an act first, investigate later attitude.
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(3 of 3)
Plains: Yellow and light browns and golds are the colors you find most in the skin, eyes, and hair of people from the plains. They are mostly shorter people, with a variety of builds. The plainsfolk can expand their minds to exceptional limits, to the point of telekinetic and telepathic ability. This annoys many others, and even impinges on their relationships with others, as only the most trained of Plains humans are capable of fully controlling their telepathy. This is why many plainsfolk are nomadic. This freeness of mind has not necessarily made plains people more disciplined or scholarly, but it has made them place a high value on independence and movement, which is why the Free Cities resist confederation.
Desert: Desert peoples have very subtle color variations in a yellow to light brown spectrum, though it is not unheard of for red to appear in their eyes and skin especially. They are short and lithe, though very tough. Humans of the desert enjoy the heat, and rarely suffer from sunburn or sunstroke; they find even temperate climates frigid, however. Desert people have always had a hard life, and so they have become very focussed and disciplined. This in turn, instead of making them physically stronger or tougher, has made them more intelligent, in terms of technology, scholarship, and intuition. They are natural problem solvers and even the most uneducated desert human tends to be capable of solving most technical or logic problems that come his way. Faith often suffers in a desert human community, but they are very accepting of evidence even for things they adamantly believe to be false, so long as that evidence is valid. They are perhaps the most determined and patient of all people on Azmoth.
Hill: The hill people are the most diverse group in the world in terms of appearance. There is no way to predict a hill person by appearance. Their coloring and size both vary tremendously. Hill folk have an uncanny ability to slightly alter this appearance as well. They are capable of changing hair, skin, and eye color to a certain degree (though someone with natural black hair could never appear blonde without dyes). They can even change basic body shape with some effort, and a few have been rumored to be able to add feathers or scales or gills, though not ones that will do anything. This adaptability has led to their temperament to be adaptable as well. While few hill people are recognized as magnificent scholars, they are remarkably quick thinkers. This combination has led to their employment as spies, con men, and ambassadors, even being hired from other nations if there are not many hill people from the employer's own nation. Hill people enjoy like minded personalities, which usually means each other, though they often allow their own ideas to be swallowed up in dominant personalities around them, making them comfortable nearly anywhere.
Mountain: Steel gray, white, and black typify the appearance of mountain men. They are stocky, broad, and quite tall. While not as smart on the whole as many others, those from the mountains have an incredible strength and endurance. Few are as strong as a mountain man, and nearly no one has as good an affinity with their environment. Mountain folk do not "sense" things as the forest people do, but they know how to read the signs of their environment. They are patient folk, but stubborn., and they are often hard to convince with reason. However, their loyalty (usually to each other) is the stuff of legends, and they will help out any they call an ally. Surprisingly, grudges rarely last long, only remaining while they feel they still have to change something. They do not take offense easily, but their famous loyalty is also hard to win. Their simple philosophies have been taken by some groups to be a sign of great wisdom, and a few of the most famous aesthetic thinkers have been mountain men, despite their breed's reputation for being weak minded.
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Okay - the issue on my mind has to do with origins. We have two major ways in which azmothian humanity is fractured: element and nationality/race.
I guess my first question has to do with nationality/race. I was assuming that each nation you created is populated by its own race, for the most part. Like France is home to the french, Bask is home to "Baskers." (I just made baskers up, and I kinda like it.) Is this assumption correct?
My second question is, did the races/nations develop in the south, post-exodus, or were they existing in the north prior to the order to move south?
If they developed in the south, it would be a stretch to have a tarthite forest human, or a tylerian desert human. If they developed in the north, what elements are common to that race depends on what their lands were like in the north.
Here's a possibility that might make these arguments moot. You mention in the above postings an undefined, yet very real, biological interaction between humans and the environment (i.e. a stormy sea makes for a temperamental ocean type.) You could go further and say that prolonger time away from one's element can change type. I'm not saying that if a hill type moves to the forest and stays there long enough, he'll become a forest type. I'm saying that if hill people moved to the forest and stayed there, for generations, their ability to pass on their hill type to their children might be mutated by their forest environment, and so in time (generations of time,) hill types might begin to have forest children, in a forest environment. This capacity to adapt might be widespread, or found in only a select number of humans, or anywhere in between.
This would allow the humans to gradually adapt to whatever their environment is, and would allow for humans of all nationalities to be all types. Maybe in the distant past in the north, some tarthites were forest types. So in the south, you can find forest tarthites (though they may be rare, or not, or whatever depending on the degree of mutation,) but you can also find desert ones. This is just a thought.
That could also make things needlessly complicated. I still need to think about this; I'm not sure it makes any sense at all, really.
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Like France is home to the french, Bask is home to "Baskers." (I just made baskers up, and I kinda like it.) Is this assumption correct?
I prefer Basquettes, but that's just me. I think the assumption is correct.
The easiest solution, I think, is that people just prefer to live near their own element. Hence they tended to settle in similar environments to their home ones. Of the few who didn't, most of their choices in mates did. Then the influence of the element comes in, and the children all inherit the primary element dominating the area. All of which means, over time, that the dominant element of an area will manifest in the subtype of most humans.
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gotcha.
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And being the manly man that I am, I too would prefer a basquette to a basker any day.
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Kije, I got 4 mails from you about the religions. THey all appeared to be the same. Except the signature that MSN tagged on. I got three different versions of that.
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wierd - I swear I only sent it once. Hopefully it's an anomaly, and not some evil plot by MSN, or stupid user error (which it very well may be.) I'm sorry for the clutter. Please let me know if it happens again. If you think it might be my fault, tell me how you think it happened so that I can avoid it in the future.
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ok, news on the TW(i)G front:
I just submitted the information on humans from this thread as an article. Figured we should have it out there. However, Kije and I together and did some religious information. It's all very general. I'm inserting it to the main article we did first. Either re-read that or see me before you finalize an article about a nation or empire so we can make sure it's all consistent
Also, Kije finished his article on Silkur. I finished editing/approving, so we should have it posted very soon.
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Humm I'm thinking we need a twig section in the RPG deparment. From now on SE put twig in the meta tags and I'll get a sort link for it when I can.
And just to be sure I'm doing Parth right? All the old converations are somewhere on my old PC which i don't use anymore. If I got that wrong I can proably easly change what little I've written. It's turning into a little more Japanese theamed then maybe originaly inteneitoned. Actaly it's more of a mix of Japanese/grecko-roman and Babalonian/sumerian. The Japanese influence is that the Emperor is a direct decended of the founding god/angles and is thusly the head religious figure. But more ceramonial (though times are changeing). The grecko-roman influecne is more social. And the last part, Babalonian/sumerian, is religion based. This may cause a problem with your original discription, it's more all the different ceramonies and such. But it could endup conflicting with what you had in mind. If it does I guess I can switch all my ideas and use them for another country.
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Japanese/Greco/Roman/Sumerian/Babylonian sounds like a freaky cool mix. The religion sounds kind of close to what Saint wrote up for Tyleria. I'll let you guys work that out.
Thanks for formatting the Silkur article in html, Saint. The side bar thingies look pretty good, imo. I just submitted it.
I'd like to keep working on this, unless you guys feel you've outsourced too much of it already or want some more variety in the contributors. I'd kind of like to write up Bask, unless someone else really would like to do that. I'm flexible; let me know.
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I haven't read SE's religion writeup beyond what was part of the very first concept. My idea is a very complex religion that has so many ceramonies, traditions, pilimagres that it would actualy be possible for players to go from lvl one to what ever the max level in the RPG will be just doing them. Of course doing so will require a very rich and detailed descriptions and such. This concept I've worked up realy does conflict what SE has on the The World of Azmoth page. He has it as a very intelectual religion where the beliefs are often debated, this is the exact opposite of what I've got. In fact just about every thing SE has come up on the orginazation front conflicts with what I want to do. I feal that his is too Judeo-christan theamed for me. I want something that we're not accustomed to seeing. I've got a very traditional religion where the head is the Emperor (who is allwayse the same base element, haven't decided on which, but he's considered all of elements in one) and then there's a councle that has on of each of the elemental types. Then the curch hiarchy is broken down by each of the elements each with their own orgnaization. While this dosen't affect the layman, anyone wanting to be in the cleragy will be. While Theology might be discussed at the higher levels, they never are at the lower levels or by the adverage person, when at church that is, anyone can discuss how they want outside of it. There are actualy no "weekly sermans" at all as we have with jeudeo-christan beliefs. It's the responsablity of the famaly to educate each other in the religion. With the priets running the church and presiding over ceramonies. Also at anytime someone may request a house call from a lower end priest (or more powerfull one depending on the family), or go visit the temples for any spiritual needs they have.
My other hang-up is the base arcitecture style. I was originaly leaning twords grecko-roman, but I felt that would protray too much of a cristian element (if only subconsenly) and would ruin the feel of this being a world unto it's own. However, it does give the feeling of a "classical" world and a certain amount of "holyness" which would lend to the setting.
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well, I assume you're just referring to religion in Parthann/Tarth, since practice varies from region to region quite a bit.
My response is.. well... change it. i'm looking at the main write up as a work in progress. I'm thinking once all the nations are done, we can make a big PDF with nice formatting and make that available that includes all of them. This means re-writing and transitioning better than I have, but I don't want to make all the changes till everything's ready.
in other words, I can go back and edit that info I recently added.
Kije sent me a great set of ideas for religion, so I modified it slightly. Tarth and Parthann had an intellectual religion because that's where most of the universities are. I latched on to it because that sounded good. But I don't see why that can't change.
A solution to your problem with architecture might be to go more Byzantine or even Arab in the architecture. I confess, I had religious people in the desert, so I though Muslim at first anyway. That may be too obvious for your tastes though.
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ok thats good to know, I was worried that you were dead set on the religious views of Parth/Tarth. And I didn't want to tread on your project in such a way if you were, especialy if you're doing Tarth.
You're right that Ottoman is about the same are greco-roman in my mind. I don't want to copy anythink 100%, but I'm trying to get something to start from. I have been leaning toword going Mesopotamian somewhat with useing Zigarauts and such as here (http://www.mtmercy.edu/classes/ar213/neareast/images/diagramur.jpg) and here (http://www.ccny.cuny.edu/architecture/archprog/slide-232/pages/028%20White%20Temple.htm). Another thing I'd like to do is for the capatial of Parth have large gardens/parks that are the base element of all the other elements except destert (since its in one), ocean, river (the city is on 2 shores, one river and one ocean) and mountain. I'm not sure if I want to go hanging garden style of things, or just city parks/resedental areas that are tailored to different people.
And just for fun a temple full of monkeys (http://www.edwebproject.org/bali/gallery/monkeyforest.html).
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Sweet. We need to give them ninja masks. They're already priests since they're in the temple.
anyway, i like where you're going. I'm hoping to have Tyleria up in the next couple weeks too.
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One other thing I wanted to ask you was the over all relationships of all the countries. If I wanted, for example, have Parth Temples in different coutries that were used for pilgrimages and were completly run by Parth would that be too hard? Or go one step further and maybe make all/some of them so they don't have to follow any laws, of what ever nations boundries they're in, that would interfear with the Temples purpose (like houseing relics, etc).
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Well, keeping in mind that Tarth and Parthann share a religion (though I'm thinking Tarth would have a more intellectual approach still, accounting for the split between the two empires), There would certainly be Parthite temples in Tarth. I could even see them being exempt from some Tarth laws, though being persecuted for their "religious heresy"
In Bregtoran and Silkur, there isn't a national government, so you could probably get away with independent temples there as well.
Tyleria would kill the priests and burn the temple down (or at least convert it's use) if one was established there.
Parth temples in the Free Cities would be possible, depending on the individual city's laws.
In Bask... well, they have a state religion too. They are business minded, so they probably would allow temples, but it doesn't seem to me that they would exempt them from Bask law.
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Ok that's some good info. The Parth Church is probaly rich enough that they could easy pay Bask if needs be. Just to be clear I'm not sure if I'm going to need to make the Temples exempt in any way, but I'm just getting a feel of the world.
Would it be possible to have a hidden temple in Tyleria? I need to have a temple in each element type, and in the old world Tyleria is the only place that there are jungles. Also I'm assumening on the map that the light green area are trees/forest?
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Yes, since the whole map is essentially within the middle third of the world, it's safe to say that the climate everywhere is equatorial, which means the difference between light and dark green on the map is primarily one of density. Dark beign more dense. I suppose hidden temples are possible anywhere, there are just consequences if the government finds out
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Well the other thing is the Temple would to have been there for hundreds of years, so the only thing I can think of is a very closely gaurded secret, or it's protected by and Angle of Jungle element.
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I'd like to keep working on this, unless you guys feel you've outsourced too much of it already or want some more variety in the contributors. I'd kind of like to write up Bask, unless someone else really would like to do that. I'm flexible; let me know.
So do I get the go ahead?
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Sprig, I think the closely guarded secret works fine.
Kije, yeah, sorry, go ahead. Bask, is open. I'm thinking I want to do Tyleria and the Nomad Plains most.
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Ok, thanks. When it comes to religion I'm only going to work out the native stuff, and not the international influence, until it all gets worked out. There's stuff that needs to be changed in the Silkur article, and Bregtoran too I think. Should we hold off on them until it's settled, or just go ahead with them and edit them after the fact?
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When you guys have it down, can you let me know that the name of the northern Bask isle is. The one right below the Parth Colonies. There's no hurry.
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let's just plow ahead and edit later.
and... uh. Bask, Jr.? i dunno. let's let Kije make it up since I think that's where he's going next.
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This is a test build of the main TWIG site. Things haven't been spellchecked so don't bother complaning about that here. The main thing I wanted to do here was build in a sort function for TWIG only articles, and mess around with some formating. Any suggestion will be nice, but keep in mind I haven't finished everything yet and am working on a better formatting for the table.
http://www.timewastersguide.com/VG/test.php
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I don't particularly care for the font choice.
Maybe we can come up with a graphic logo to go somewhere. I know that few of us are artists, and that 42 is pretty busy most of the time, but let's see what we can figure out.
Oh, and it seems wider than the normal size for content.
I don't know how much of that you know, I'm just throwing out ideas. I'm excited about a TW(i)G section, because the setting information doesn't really belong in RPG, which I've just been mandating use of so I can continue to edit them.
It does bring up again the possibility of coding multi-department capability for articles. Since when we publish system rules (Fell mentioned to me that he's had some good brainstorms, and since he's in charge of that committee, that means we're moving on it), those would go into RPG and Table Top sections just as well as TW(i)G
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Nothing is set on this, I'll be working out a better layout over the next few days. The size and text styles are just something I though out to be used with a style Class, which is what I'm learning to use. And so I'm useing a font-family SE so you may not have the same fonts installed on your PC then mine, how it works is there are x number of fonts listed and the browser checks to see which you have installed, then uses the first one it finds. It's a good way to desigen a page the way you want to look with uncommon fonts, then still have formatting control over those that doing have said font installed. Anyway I'd like to keep graphic text out of the page since I'm trying to learn better website layout and throwing in graphic text is considered a no-no now a days. But if you want to make it more then just fancy text and color (ie a real logo) then that's cool. But I can easy change the font layouts by changeing the CSS for the page.
I'm takeing the "It seams wider then normal size" comment is that it dosen't fit into your bowser width wise. That'll be fixed here in a bit. I'm going to add code that's going to adjust the layout according to screensize and PC type.
We can have cross deparment linkage if you know how to code it. I can have this page (even though it's in the RPG deparment) display Table-Top articles if I want. It's realy not that hard at all. The only thing they have to have is "TWIG" in the Meta tags of the article. Actualy if you look at the address that page is currently in the VG deparment. Of course, since it's not an article, but instead an actual PHP page that's not stored in the Database, you won't be able to access it for editing. But I will be able to. Also we cannot use the blurb feature on the site either, since there would have to be a TWIG deparment to do this, and there's currently no reason to bug Tage to make one for TWIG either. So when ever news needs to be added I have to do it manualy.
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yeah, I meant a real logo. Not just fancy text.
and on the size thing, yes, that's what I meant.
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I just edited the above post with new stuff at begining and end. Also get a new PC you stupid 600x800 users! You're runing it for everyone else.
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eventually i hope to have enough content to justify its own department. For now, we'll just do whatever.
See, I don't do 800x600, I'm actually at 1280x1024. But no window I ever use fills up the screen. so my actual browser is actually probably 900x800 ish, the height being the most variable.
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The reason why it's not resizeing it the table since I currently have fixed values for the width of the table. I'll be changeing them to a percentage value wich will fix it. Also if TWIG gets enough content it shouldn't have it's own deparment, but it's own subdomain (ie http://twig.timewastersguide.com) that will be seperate from TWG.
Anyway, think of what intro text you want and such. Since what I wrote was just a filler to test things.
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The subdomain is an interesting solution. I like that.
yeah, I'll come up with some text.
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The name of the northernmost Bask island is New Fairen.
And I was thinking on your ideas on religion, Sprig. When it comes to the high priest of a temple being able to summon some sort of guardian, you can write it into a piece as a legend (legend has it that...) instead of stating it outright. That way it may or may not be the case, and you wouldn't be introducing too much magic into the situation. And legends are neat things to give a culture a thorough feel.
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Oh - and a question. How long have there been colonies in the north? Years? Decades? Centuries?
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thinking of a specific number... I'll have to meditate. It's definitely within the last century. probably the first 2 or three decades tops. Let me narrow it down in thought a bit.
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hey... if you guys get me the files info for twig, I'll do what im actually good at... and make a professional quality pdf or print publication for the game....
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We're far from ready for that.
Plus, I kinda wanted to do it.
Oh, and the number is 50. I've decied 50 years is enough time to build cities, but not enough time to know the whole land well.
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Not that far from it if your posting previews on the site...
and remember that DTP is what I do... mr. greedypants...
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Mr. Greedypants!
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very far from it
We're posting the whole thing on TWG first. We've done ONE of around a dozen nations. There's a LOT still to be WRITTEN.
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and what im asking is permission to DTP whats been released on TWG so it looks more professional.
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Yes, I know. and I'm saying no. I'm going to do it when it's all written up.
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we're also haven't finalized anything Jeffe, hate to have you got through all the problem of PDFing, then have us change half the descriptions.
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I'm picking up TW(i)G work again, and was wondering where I had left off. Had I sent in the latest revised version of Bregtoran yet? If not, I'll finish that up first and then move on to Bask, which I've already started developing.
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I'm pretty sure I have Bretoran somewhere, but because I'm lazy, I'll assume it's not the latest and I want you to send it to me again.
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OKay - I'll do that when I get home.
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Has this moved along anymore SE? I'm afraid I've been too busy lately to write out any of my stuff. But I do plan on getting to it eventualy.
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Yeah, I need to edit soemthing Kije sent me, and he's writing another. He's going to be one of our big writers for this. I need to get off my tail and write, but works been a pain, so...
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I've actualy got the main layout of the capital of Parth more or less designed in my head, I think I also have a sketch laying around somewhere too. I just need to sit down a write sometime, I can't causaly write though. I can't have the TV on or other things distracting me. But I've more or less put all my current flash projects on hold so I can finish all my PHP projects so maybe once I get those whittled down some I can move onto this.
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yeah, i can dig it. With all the new ideas I have, plus writing Peks, plus writing reviews, i'm swamped.
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I think we need to start outsourceing to India.
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well, heaven knows the UK and Australia aren't helping.
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Psh, trade partners my hiney. Brittan and Auzieland realy need to step up our we'll have to start putting tarrifs on our forums.
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Hey, I'm not involved. All I know is that your creating some weird rpg world or something.
Before complaining that the Aus division isn't working, try actually outsourcing to an Aus division.
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We asked for volunteers. I didn't hear any international volunteerism. Therefore, as Americans, we're casting blame.
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I may not be getting Bask out for a bit, but it's towards the top of my to-do list for projects. Very conservative estimate = 1 month.
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Kije is realy makeing us look bad here SE, that article is a freaking book!
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yeah, I had to proof read it. I'm posting it today.
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Kije is realy makeing us look bad here SE, that article is a freaking book!
Well I don't have a novel that I 'm trying to write, or numberous programs I'm trying to code. I just think up stuff when I want and write it down.
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"numberous" was a typo, by the way. But I like the word enough that I'm going to leave it.
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it's a perfectly cromulent word.
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Well I've sort of started, this is takeing longer the I thought mostly because I'm haveing to come up with a lot of things since we realy didn't discuss the world as much as we maybe should have. Oh well.
Two things that would greatly help:
1) some sort of time line, even if its not included in the final stuff I don't like allwayse saying "Several centries ago" and crap like that. Could we work out a simple timeline that would say things like when certain countries were formed and such.
2) What is the actualy size of the countries, I'd like to know how long the border of Parthann is with tarth and how many square miles etc.
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I'll get you numbers on the distances later today, I have to do a couple things here at work first. I'll have a very rough timeline this weekend which we can edit as we go.
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Just a reminder, SE: you had mentioned one item for the timeline already when I asked you. You said the northern colonies had been established within the last 50 years. I don't know if you were referring specifically to Bask (it was Bask I was asking about) or all combined, but I just wanted to remind you of that date.
Of course, if you want to change your mind, I'm not so far along that it will cause any serious edits on my part.
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Good, the time line isn't as important as the size since I'm working on the Geography right now. I'm just reading up on Deserts and such.
I am glad becasue I was able to come up with a type of goverment for Parthann that fits with both your and mine ideas. I wanted a Theocracy and you were more republic. Well I've got a triad or Emperors, one that's appointed by the Church of Parth, one that's appointed by Nobility and a third (which is the tie breaker) that's elected by the people. I'll probaly work in some type of senate too.
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Who's doing Tarth? Is that me or someone else? Becasue I need to know the name of the city that's on Tarth's side of the river Ilne (where the river curves).
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Last time I checked you were doing Tarth. It makes sense, with the common history and all. SE knows for sure, though. It might have changed.
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Oh - and cool idea with the triad of emperors. Me likey.
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last I checked, Sprig had both Tarth and Parthann. Make it up, if someone else ends up doing Tarth, they'll have to use your name.
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*names the city "Spriggan Rules"*
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/me exercises his editorial power and makes it "Spriul" so it's harder to tell the original name.
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The equator of this world is around 8000 miles (about 1/3 that of earth, so it's a smallish world). The great desert there, which more or less defines Tarth/Parthann's collective borders, is about 1/3 of that. So figure 2300 miles from one end of the desert to the other. Tarth's western border is hardly set, and they have disputes with the Free Cities over exactly where the lines are.
The distance from the ocean to the south edge of the map, I believe we decided, is about 800 miles, with next to nothing explored south of that (although Sprig and I had an idea for what to put down there in a future "expansion"). We don't, on the other hand, have a really solid reason for WHY the world isn't explored south of that, though Kije put a mountain range at the south edge of Bregoran. The river would probably have cataracts, that make it unnavigable, and therefore undesirable to explore. But the desert, well, maybe there just aren't any known oasis locations south of that. Maybe superstition. Maybe Darklings stop them. *shrug* work with me on the reasons there.
In terms of square miles, the desert as a whole is around 1.84 MILLION square miles.
Roughly speaking, Parthann's territory is about 368,000 square miles, (800 miles from the ocean southward, around 460 miles east-west on the average.) while Tarth makes up the rest of that, 1900 miles east to west and covering nearly 1.5 million square miles.
All of that sounds impossibly big until you realize that the US has a square milage of like 3.62 million. Russia is almost 7 million. California is 156000. So we're still talking about very big nations for the ancients, but Egypt was almost exactly the same size as I just described for Parthann, so it's not unreasable.
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Tarthann would seem, to use the analogy, like an empire that spanned the Sahara (although maybe not quite as large as that.)
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Sweet thanks SE that's just what I needed. I've got some things to put below Parth and Tarth that would expalain why they aren't explored past the border much (maybe 50-100 miles only in some spots).
here's what I've basiclay come up with for a quick geographical outline of the territory:
The territory of the empire is roughly 368,000 square miles; the western border runs about 600 miles along the edge of the Ilne river and extending about 50 miles west of the Delta. The costal region runs roughly 500 miles north from the Ilne Delta then extending 190 miles east to the Horn of Parth regions which is roughly 75 miles wide its self (and extends about 90 miles into the sea). From there the base of the Green Lands begins and runs another 200 miles east at its base while extending 180 miles out into the ocean and ends in a point about 30 miles wide. From the base of the Green Land to then southern end of Parthann the border extends roughly 800 (980 miles including the Green Land) miles along the disputed border with the Nomad Plains. The Southern border of Parthann's territory is it's smallest and most barren sharing roughly 370 miles with the Devil's Horns Wastes.
About 80% of Parthann is a mixture of sandy deserts (like the Sahara) and stony deserts (like Utah or the Middle East) with the southern tip of Parthann giving away into an immense Desert of Rocks. The other 20% is mostly costal shores and the Green Land Peninsula. There are basically 4 different Geographical areas in Parthann: The River Ilne, the Coastal shores, Green Land, and the Deserts of Parth.
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Sounds good.
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Hey SE you going to get me a rough timeline? All I realy need to know is a few dates.
1) When the mass migration from the Northren contenent was
2) When some of the other nations were formed (or seen as a regional area when it comes to Silker and Bregtoran)?
3) Any major events or conflicts that have happened that you've allreay thought up.
I allready know the colonies have been around for about 50 years and that Parth/Tarth split up about 200-250 years ago. I just need to know when to start the history and some refrence points to other things that have happened.
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I had a much more full Saturday than I ever thought possible, and I'm STILL tired from it, but I did do this. All dates are dating back from the current era.
I'm gonna make a new thread and sticky it so it'll always be on top and I can edit it as we add new things. Not everything you asked for is on it, but it's a start.
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cool, at lease haveing what date to start from will be help full, anything else can be easly added.
Also do you have a name for the storm(s) at sea? I figure I'll mention them a few time.
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ok, well it's up. I really only have the major history of Tyleria on it, but they're OLD. Most places are probably considerably younger, but Parthann/Tarth is probably nearly as old. At least, that's what i was thinking. The Split is much more recent, however. The last few hundred years.
Anyone doing write-ups, let me know what to add in there and where.
Storms at sea: I kind of like the idea of every culture having their own names for them. LEt me know what you think.
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Every culture haveing a name for it is cool, but I think that mariners would have a universal name for it (to advoide confusion with multi-national crews) this could be the name in a trader tounge (if there is one) or either Bask or Parth tounge. That way WE also have a universal name for it because calling it different in every write up might cause confuseion.
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Bask is mroe neutral, I'd recommend that.
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Ok, so why don't you or Kije come up with the gerneral name (ie Basks) for us to use then when we get to it make a local name for it from each nation.
You know it's kinda sad, we use to have intrest in this. Oh well once TW(I)G becomes huge and we're RPG royality we can mock the others even more.
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I figure only contributors get share in the booty. Whatever booty may come of it. That means the three currently writing, and a little bit of Jeffe and Fell from the original design phase.
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What are other nations doing with slavery? I assmune Tyl has it but what about other nations like the ones Kije is handleing(speaking of which it would nice to hear from that boy on some of these questions)? I haven't decided yet, I don't realy think I want to put it in but that's becasue of my personal views on it. But I'm waiting to make my final descision until I know what the majority of nations think.
And secondly what are people knowlege of the cataclysm that wiped things out 5000+ years ago? Is it an event that people would know about? I want to have a descroption like this: "Some say that underneith the lake lay the ruins of an achient city from before the cataclyism and that some long forgotten magic produces the water."
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I would think there would at least be legendary info about the Cataclysm, so the common man would talk about it if it came up.
Slavery I'm leaving up to individual nations. Tyleria will probably have some form of slavery, though I won't make it a capatilistic endeavor like early US. The commonality will not be very high, either.
THe nomads do not have slaves.
Some Free Cities will have slaves, there's so much diversity that it would be impossible to wipe it out completely, esp since there isn't a confederate governmnet.
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I would think there would at least be legendary info about the Cataclysm, so the common man would talk about it if it came up.
That what I was assumeing, it's the easy way out but I'm going to use that now and again to explain things that I realy don't want to come up with a real explination for. like, for example, a lake in the desert. I want it there but don't want to say why it manages to survive (it's a big lake), so I just write that the loacls chalk it up to some magic from legond.
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a more scientific reason (which people might not know) could be an underground spring.
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Yes but it would have to be a very big spring to be able to supply this lake (out where it's usealy 100+ degrees) and that has been around for thousands of years. Don't that that would work.
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well, a whole network of underground streams would.
Hrm... there's a potential adventure/story for river folk.
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Slavery:
Bregtoran does not embrace slavery (against the general gist of their religion) but they do have an indentured servitude system in place for the lowest of the classes. Only 1 out of 15 or 20 will be an indentured servant, so it's not a huge factor in society, but significant. (Consequently, that's something we'll have to edit into Bregtoran for future revisions.)
Silkur has no slavery because it would be beneath a person's honor to be a slave, and thus also to own slaves.
Name for storms...really not something I've thought about. You expecting a Baskish-sounding name (e.g. sklavers, or fierhaves, or something like that) or a generic metaphorical name (e.g. sea-screamer, waterhell, etc.)?
Were there any other questions I needed to respond to for Bask (or Silkur or Bregtoran?)
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not on this thread, I think. But the Timeline could use your attention.
as for storm names, we're looking for anything. So let's take those four names under advisement and decide what people would accept. I'm pretty much thinking of Bask as the "trade tongue" or "lingua franca" of Azmoth, so in my mind, we can use a native Bask term for it.
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Ya there's not to much hurry for now I'm justing useing {storm} in my text so I can easly search and relpace.
Have we decided on a basic tech level? Do they have steal? Paper (made from wood pulp)? Telescopes? Cyborg ninja monkeys? WiFi?
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I'm thinking that they mostly reflect classical/ancient societies for most things. This is because few European/Western medieval societies had true empires. (the late Byzantines, true, but they collapsed, leaving mostly just the Ottomans). So mostly I want to preserve that feel.
On the other hand, steel makes things easier, so let's say steel is permitted. Bask and Tyleria and Parthann would almost certainly have steel, though you may want to restrict access to it depending on natural resources and trade availability. Many free cities and parts of Bregtoran and Silkur probably also have enough steel that it's not that unusual.
I don't see why we have to have paper. Something more like papyrus certainly. Probably vellum where papyrus isnt' as accessible.
Seige engines? eh, why not. We'll leave that up to writer discretion.
I think originally nothing later than very early rennaissance, meaning POSSIBLY some gun powder, but while it's not inconsistant with anything so far, I don't know that we should have even gunpowder. Tech should probably remain at Medieval levels. Plate armor, basic seige equipment, vellum, etc.
Social institutions aren't necessarily based on that, so social systems can be anything, and we can have universities and whatnot.
Sound good? clarifications? contentions?
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Ok that clairfies somestuff. We've allready decided that parth has no natural Iron deposits but they have lots of things to trade for it, thus IronGlass. I was going to call it Glassteal but I wasn't sure if we had steal, now I think I like Ironglass better. It fits since the glass is still brittle and can break when fighing against steal and other realy hard armors. I'm not realy a big fan of haveing gunpowder in the setting, but it might be fun to give a northern contenent country with it (all though we should probaly limit it to the extent the chinese used it in classical times).
What about telescopes? and spyglasses? I'm wanting to have a astronmony university in Parth so if we could have some type of telescope (even if it is simple) I think that would be cool.
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eh, i guess I don't have a problem with that.
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yeah, let's keep gunpowder out for now.
telescopes seem fine to me too.
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So in writing up Bask I came across a place where I would mention tides, and the question arose: does Azmoth have a moon/s? If it did it would have to be smallish, but still big enough to create some tidal effect I think. What say ye? I'm fine with or without.
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hrm... i guess moons would be a good thing to be common knowledge. they'd have to be really small moons to have more than one, but since the world is already based on such a dialectic system, it'd be nice to have it. WHat do you think of two small moons. One being gray/white like our own, the other of very dark material, so it's harder to see in the night sky (or else in a semi-geosynchronous orbit on the sun side so it is always in "new moon" phase). ?
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Two small moons, with similar orbits and fairly close together, would produce enough pull to create a noticeable tidal effect, in my guess.
And the colors are fine with me. I like the idea of a bright moon and a dark one. The dark one might be much more noticeable in daylight, when it appears during the daylight hours. That would be cool.
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Have you ever thougt of pulling an endor? Since this world is so small why not make it a moon of a large planet of some type. That might help explain strange weather.
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hrm... there's an interesting thought. I will meditate on this.
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SE, Sprig: I just sent a copy of Bask to you guys. Peruse at your convenience and we can talk any revisions here (or through email if you prefer.)
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I'd advise tying it into the religion of the world. Having a planet right above your own atmosphere would result in it having even more of a religious significance than Luna does in world religions.
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This is not a pester or a complaint. I know you both (Sprig, SE) are busy with other projects. I just wanted to keep the Bask writeup on the radar so that when you're ready you can give it a read and suggest possible revisions.
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er... I read it, and I keep meaning to email you some comments. I'll try to do that tonight.
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There's no rush. When you feel you can get to it is fine.