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Local Authors => Brandon Sanderson => Topic started by: GorgonlaVacaTremendo on July 31, 2006, 05:57:51 PM

Title: *spoiler* Mistborn Magic Clarification
Post by: GorgonlaVacaTremendo on July 31, 2006, 05:57:51 PM
Hello Euol, I have a few questions regarding the metals in Mistborn. Are gold and atium considered pushing or pulling metals (if you ever mentioned it, I missed it)? For feruchomy, I get the impression that certain metals can store certain attributes, but it is never spoken of in detail. Could a feruchomist store memories in any metal, or just metal of a certain type? Which metals go to which attributes?

Back to allomancy, which metals last the longest (I known tin is up there), and which the shortest (I know pewter runs out quickly)? Is there a specific order of duration? How rare are the allomantic metals in The Final Empire? Is it possible to be a misting for gold, or atium, or some unknown metals that aren't in the core eight?
Title: Re: Mistborn clarification
Post by: EUOL on July 31, 2006, 06:20:01 PM
Gorgon,

Gold and atium are special, and I can't answer without spoilers about the plot.  If you want, I'll go into detail--but before I do that, edit the title of the thread and add a *Spoilers* to it.  

Feruchemy will be discussed at length in book two.  However, I can tell you that yes, certain metals (analogous to the Allomantic metals) store certain attributes.  For instance, Sazed stores memories in what he calls a "coppermind," while he stores his eyesight in a "tinmind."  Again, I can't give more information with spoilers--but I will if you want me to.

The longest lasting of the Allomantic metals is actually copper, which is used by Smokers to hide Allomancy.  Tin is second, however.  Steel and Iron are actually rather quick, but since they're generally used in bursts, it's hard to notice.  Both brass and zinc are medium, as is bronze.  Pewter burns the fastest of the basic eight, though atium and gold both burn faster than it does.  

In my mind, it's related to how much 'work' the metal has to do.  That's why pewter, steel, and iron burn so quickly.  A lot of weight and power is getting thrown around, while copper only has to do something simple.  However, I never really set any of these things hard-fast.

And, only atium is really all that rare.  Because of the value of the metals, the noble houses expended a lot of resources finding and exploiting mines to produce the metals.  This resulted in a slightly higher value for most of them as opposed to our world, but not really noticeably so, because Allomancers really don't need that much metal.  Even fast burning metals, like pewter, are generally only swallowed in very small amounts.  (i.e. A small bit goes a long way.)
Title: Re: *spoiler* Mistborn Magic Clarification
Post by: GorgonlaVacaTremendo on July 31, 2006, 06:36:05 PM
Thanks, any more clarification you could give me without completely ruining the plot of any of the sequels would be appreciated, but I'll trust you to be the judge of what is and what is not a spoiler to your following books. I would, if you could get it out without ruining anything major, like perhaps a basic explanation of feruchomy's metals.

Thanks again.
Title: Re: *spoiler* Mistborn Magic Clarification
Post by: Archon on July 31, 2006, 07:07:03 PM
I'm still interested as to how Hemalurgy fits in. I have an idea or two, but I'm not really sure.
Title: Re: *spoiler* Mistborn Magic Clarification
Post by: EUOL on July 31, 2006, 08:27:44 PM
Gorgon,

No problem.  The following chart will be in the back of book two, so it's safe for anyone who has finished book one.

(http://www.brandonsanderson.com/graphics/Chart.JPG)

As you can see, there is a wide variety of things that can be done with Feruchemy.  And, as to Pushing and Pulling metals...well, there is a Pushing metal and a Pulling metal with each pair.  So, Atium and gold are both Pushing metals, while their alloys are each Pulling metals.  

Also, I just noticed that the chart in the back of the first book is wrong with zinc and brass.
Title: Re: *spoiler* Mistborn Magic Clarification
Post by: demented_yam on July 31, 2006, 09:02:23 PM
i can't wait to see electrum and malatium in action.  ;D

oh, and i hope you take the 'p' out of 'warmth' before it goes off to print  :P
Title: Re: *spoiler* Mistborn Magic Clarification
Post by: EUOL on July 31, 2006, 09:34:08 PM
lol.  If that weren't a jpg, I'd go change it now.  (I had to post a jpg because I didn't want to try making tables in the bbs format.)  However, I did change it in the text version that is in the file.  Thanks.
Title: Re: *spoiler* Mistborn Magic Clarification
Post by: neiana on July 31, 2006, 10:12:15 PM
Is there a chance you would let us know what metal Vin was forced to burn that removed all of her current metal reserves?
Title: Re: *spoiler* Mistborn Magic Clarification
Post by: Oldie Black Witch on August 01, 2006, 12:57:10 AM
O-ho! Thanks for the clarification! I've been wondering how feruchemy allowed him to adjust his age. That might explain where the missing atium went.
Title: Re: *spoiler* Mistborn Magic Clarification
Post by: EUOL on August 01, 2006, 01:48:12 AM
Neiana,

That would be aluminum.  Its alloy will be discovered--and put to great use--in book two.  
Title: Re: *spoiler* Mistborn Magic Clarification
Post by: neiana on August 01, 2006, 02:29:19 AM
Thanks, I appreciate it.  :)
Title: Re: *spoiler* Mistborn Magic Clarification
Post by: GorgonlaVacaTremendo on August 01, 2006, 02:53:31 AM
So, when a Feruchomist stores memory, does that mean that he or she can't remember anything while storing the memories, or can't make new memories? Or is it an exception to the rule of you need to decrease your ability to increase your ability?
Title: Re: *spoiler* Mistborn Magic Clarification
Post by: EUOL on August 01, 2006, 12:59:29 PM
Gorgon,

You stick the memory in and cannot remember it any more.  It works the same way as strength or other attributes.  When you fill the pewtermind, you give up some of your strength for a short time.  When you fill a coppermind, you give up certain memories.  Not your ability to memorize other things, but those specific memories are gone until you retrieve them.  The thing you gain is that anything stuck in a coppermind doesn't degrade like memories do inside of your head.  
Title: Re: *spoiler* Mistborn Magic Clarification
Post by: demented_yam on August 02, 2006, 01:43:26 AM
like storing a word document on a floppy disc rather than on the hard drive.

once the floppy is removed, the computer is unable to read the file. (so once you take the rings off, you can't remember those things)
Title: Re: *spoiler* Mistborn Magic Clarification
Post by: Shrain on August 02, 2006, 11:03:50 AM
A good analogy but not quite spot on since Feruchemists don't remember *everything* in the metalminds when they're wearing them. They have to access a memory and then put it back quickly so it doesn't degrade.

To revise your analogy a bit, though, a disk can be in the drive without having any of the documents open. However, zip disks (not to even mention old floppies!) are notorious for the loss of data integrity. The info stored in metalminds won't degrade, as Brandon mentioned above.

I have to say, that would be the coolest study aid ever! No more index cards! Although... cheating would be the norm in the sense that you won't really have *learned* anything, which means of course, that you'd be filthy rich, EUOL, if you could pull that off. ;D
Title: Re: *spoiler* Mistborn Magic Clarification
Post by: GLE on August 14, 2006, 04:10:37 PM
Lol u didn't have to put spoiler on it i think.... wel... then again. it tells 3 metals i didn't know... lol. so if all the metals have opposites... wut is aluminums opposite and wut does it do? lol. ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: *spoiler* Mistborn Magic Clarification
Post by: EUOL on August 14, 2006, 04:14:50 PM
Aluminum's metal opposite is explained in book two.  

Also, as has been noted, be careful about using l33t (i.e., abbreviations like wut, ignoring punctuation rules, and the like) on the forum here.  You should be safe when you're posting on topics in my personal forum.  I've kind of asked Sprig and the likes to go easy on people here.  However, if you branch out into the regular Timewaster's forums, you might get a few sarcastic remarks thrown your direction.

Just a heads up.  Doesn't bother me, but some others like to have sport with newcomers...
Title: Re: *spoiler* Mistborn Magic Clarification
Post by: Spriggan on August 14, 2006, 04:17:43 PM
GLE, this is a friendly post informing you on spelling policies here, this isn't Myspace.

It's you, not u.

It's what, not wat.

well, not wel.

And don't add lol after everything, we try to ward off internet stupidity on these forums not encourage them, so many posters will harass you if you use those type of abbreviations. We don't like chasing people away, but there's a very low tolerance of such things.
Title: Re: *spoiler* Mistborn Magic Clarification
Post by: EUOL on August 14, 2006, 04:32:59 PM
Though, again, I would ask you to be particularly forgiving of people on my section of the forums, Sprig.  I have a lot of younger readers, and would rather they get a warm reception.  All bets are off when they leave this section of the forum, however.
Title: Re: *spoiler* Mistborn Magic Clarification
Post by: Spriggan on August 14, 2006, 04:38:32 PM
It's not me you have to worry about, I really don't care that much about leet speak, but it's the others that do so I like to step in and warn people before they raise any ire from others. (though I do hate LOL used after every sentence).

What I don't like is people starting treads and only posting one or two words like "I love this" and crap.  I only lay down the admin law when people are abusive in starting new threads and causing arguments by being rude.

And you can't exclude your forum completely from the rest due to everyone reads your forum, you'll notice that there were others that mentioned the same things as I did just as fast.  But I've always left managing your forums up to you, I don't lock or delete repetitive things.
Title: Re: *spoiler* Mistborn Magic Clarification
Post by: GLE on August 14, 2006, 05:08:41 PM
hahaha ok. i will remember that. sorry i been playing net games a little too much these days... and thanks for the replies
Title: Re: *spoiler* Mistborn Magic Clarification
Post by: Seaoftrouble on January 09, 2010, 06:05:50 AM
When using Feruchemy to increase abilities does it take more of a Feruchemistís energy reserve to gain the same ability increase bonus at higher levels of use? Letís use speed as an example, would it take the same amount of the Feruchemistís energy to go from 2mph to 3mph as it would to go from 202mph to 203mph?
Title: Re: *spoiler* Mistborn Magic Clarification
Post by: Ari54 on January 11, 2010, 06:59:58 AM
When using Feruchemy to increase abilities does it take more of a Feruchemistís energy reserve to gain the same ability increase bonus at higher levels of use? Letís use speed as an example, would it take the same amount of the Feruchemistís energy to go from 2mph to 3mph as it would to go from 202mph to 203mph?

Yeah, Sazed went into that in Book... was it 2 or 3?

Also, that was such a big bump it was practically an earthquake. :)
Title: Re: *spoiler* Mistborn Magic Clarification
Post by: Seaoftrouble on January 11, 2010, 10:54:04 PM
When using Feruchemy to increase abilities does it take more of a Feruchemistís energy reserve to gain the same ability increase bonus at higher levels of use? Letís use speed as an example, would it take the same amount of the Feruchemistís energy to go from 2mph to 3mph as it would to go from 202mph to 203mph?

Yeah, Sazed went into that in Book... was it 2 or 3?

Also, that was such a big bump it was practically an earthquake. :)
Thank you it was talked about near the end of book 1.
ďYes, Master Marsh. However, Feruchemy gives decreasing returnsóit takes more than the proportionate amount
of strength, for instance, to make yourself four times as strong as a regular man, as opposed to simply twice as strong.
 


OK now for my next question:  I know Feruchemy can remove or increase the effects of age going from healthy and young to old and decrepit, but could Feruchemy be used to become a child or could a child grow into an adult using Feruchemy?

My thought is a 20 year old Feruchemist can't become 10year old child, but I am looking for clarification because of a debate taking place in a RPG campaign.         
Title: Re: *spoiler* Mistborn Magic Clarification
Post by: Patriotic Kaz on January 11, 2010, 11:12:11 PM
It would burn up faster but yeah you should be able to.
Title: Re: *spoiler* Mistborn Magic Clarification
Post by: Seaoftrouble on January 11, 2010, 11:43:04 PM
It would burn up faster but yeah you should be able to.
On the other hand a child Feruchemist could become a full grown adult and never look back growing from 3' to 6'+.   
Title: Re: *spoiler* Mistborn Magic Clarification
Post by: Patriotic Kaz on January 11, 2010, 11:46:31 PM
and at the age of 18-24 you could start to slow your aging.... talk about streching out your life expectancy.
Title: Re: *spoiler* Mistborn Magic Clarification
Post by: Seaoftrouble on January 12, 2010, 12:39:44 AM
That is strange because a 10 year old Feruchemist† would gaining strength and speed that comes with being 20 year old matured adult and if you go the other way the 10 year old Feruchemist† becomings an infant helpless and fragile. It almost seems that before maturity the dynamic would be flipped giving up energy being underdeveloped and use that energy to become closer to fully developed.

Also if it is development following this line of thought could one not spend a large bust of age becoming something smaller than an infant and be slipped under a door to gain access to a locked room?†

It seems there should be a breaking point between the two or its not usable till a Feruchemist reaches maturity.

Poor seaoftrouble let us listen to him talk to himself.
Sea:† screams "I am still recovering from my crumbled illusions that it what was not actual age bing adjusted but the toll time takes on a body!"

 Trouble: whispers "Sea this could be clouding your judgment, let it go you were working off pure speculation anyway"
 
Sea:† Silently sits wishing he could get rid of trouble without offing himself at the same time. "I hate it when he makes since"†
Title: Re: *spoiler* Mistborn Magic Clarification
Post by: Patriotic Kaz on January 12, 2010, 12:59:55 AM
Do we know if feruchemist "snap"
Title: Re: *spoiler* Mistborn Magic Clarification
Post by: Seaoftrouble on January 14, 2010, 06:54:41 AM

It would burn up faster but yeah you should be able to.
???
It would burn up fast based off witch of the following dynamics? 
(A) The dramatic change in body structure 
(B) The difference in age (keep in mind we could be talking about a 18year old turning back only 8 years)
(C) A and B
(D) None  of the above
(C) I don't know
Title: Re: *spoiler* Mistborn Magic Clarification
Post by: Patriotic Kaz on January 14, 2010, 09:44:15 PM
The greater the time span the more energy required....
Title: Re: *spoiler* Mistborn Magic Clarification
Post by: Fireborn on January 22, 2010, 05:42:55 AM
I think that Atium doesn't actually store age, it stores youth, which is why when Vin found TLR in his hideout he was old.  He was storing youth.  It's part of his Feruchemy/Allomancy trick to make himself immortal.  So the change in age is one way, storing makes you older, tapping makes you younger.  This is why most Feruchemists don't really use Atium much, since to make yourself younger for a year you'd have to older for a year, thus making it not very useful except for maybe changing your appearance.
So in order to make yourself a small child (if it's even possible), you'd have to be an especially decrepit old man for just as long.
Title: Re: *spoiler* Mistborn Magic Clarification
Post by: Seaoftrouble on January 22, 2010, 10:53:18 AM
Hm. At least some trickery could still be possible with youth-storing though. Say I develop my Feruchemy at age 20, and live to be 80 naturally. But say as soon as I learn that Feruchemy, I store youth heavily, making me appear 80 years old, right at the limit of my natural life. I can keep storing and storing that until I actually am 80; then I have to start calling in the reserves to keep living. That lets me live quite a ways past 80, maybe even to 140. The sacrifice is high though; I spend my entire life being extremely aged. A lesser sacrifice could get 10 or 20 more years though, which surely would appeal to some, especially scholars.
I was thinking about this formula as well

Title: Re: *spoiler* Mistborn Magic Clarification
Post by: Seaoftrouble on January 22, 2010, 11:27:37 AM
I think that Atium doesn't actually store age, it stores youth, which is why when Vin found TLR in his hideout he was old.† He was storing youth.† It's part of his Feruchemy/Allomancy trick to make himself immortal.† So the change in age is one way, storing makes you older, tapping makes you younger.† This is why most Feruchemists don't really use Atium much, since to make yourself younger for a year you'd have to older for a year, thus making it not very useful except for maybe changing your appearance.
So in order to make yourself a small child (if it's even possible), you'd have to be an especially decrepit old man for just as long.
Honestly I like to think it does not affect development though I have been told otherwise but I am still skeptical.

Also it's not an even exchange rate so being 5 years older for a year will not get you a full year looking 5 years younger.