Timewaster's Guide Archive
Local Authors => Robison E. Wells => Topic started by: House of Mustard on July 10, 2006, 06:06:36 PM
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So, weird news. Deseret Book (the publisher) sent Seagull a letter indicating that as of August 1st, DB will no longer be selling any of their products (including doctrinal books by General Authorities) to Seagull.
Apparently, Seagull is completely baffled by the move. Allegedly, their CEO called DB, and was told that they have no further comment than what was in the letter.
One DB author said that DB told her it was done to "protect the Deseret Book brand".
Thoughts? (My initial reaction was that the DB bosses must be breaking the Word of Wisdom...)
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Well, seagull is DB's only competitor so I can easily see why they think they need to do it, but honestly that cuts out a decent percentage of their sales.
Do you know what percent of DB books comes from Seagull? That would be very interesting to know.
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So is this official? Becuase I'm thinking I might write a letter to the editor or something. I'm amazed that DB thinks this is just healthy competition. This borders on anti-trust.
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How very strange that DB would cut off a large distributor. I bet they're hoping to damage Seagull by deceitfully reinforcing the widespread, yet erroneous, belief among mormons that anything you purchase from DB is 'canon'
I bet DB is also hoping that when customers are told that they can no longer purchase works by the general authorities at seagull, those customers fear for their salvation and immediately "get themselves" to DB and buy a few things.
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I don't know percentages, but Covenant publishes relatively little non-fiction doctrinal stuff. And DB has drastically cut back on their fiction. Of the 100+ fiction titles in the LDS market last year, I'd guess DB could claim less than twenty.
Covenant has said they will continue to sell to DB.
Here's a funny quote from our very own Matthew Buckley (taken from the comments of a blog, http://sixldswriters.blogspot.com/2006/07/bad-news-in-lds-book-market.html):
Oh brother.
Unlike you, Jeffry, I have a hard time finding any respect for Deseret Book. I have seen very little from them other than heavy-handed, monopolistic tactics. It seems to me that there focus is not to provide good products to as many people as possible, rather it is to find the easiest way to turn a buck. They seem to want to be the only true and living bookstore in the LDS world, and are willing to do whatever necessary to obtain this end.
Competition is healthy for the consumer because they always get a good price. Competition is healthy for the producers because they are forced to find better and more efficient ways to produce. The only people competition is not good for are those who want to make a whole lot of money without having to actually do any work.
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Firemeboy, forgive me for being cynical but...
Did you not realize that honest business practices do not apply to organizations affiliated with THE CHURCH. Such things as apply only to mortal organizations.
Sometime I'll have to tell you about the Signature Card scam at BYU.
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:)
Skar, you are right. I forget that DB is the one true and living bookstore. And all other bookstores are an abomination before Sheri Dew. All you have to do is walk into a DB and smell the bread, and you know that they must be the true bookstore.
This practice isn't a dirty, underhanded tactic. It's more like proselyting. They're simply trying to save the poor souls who shop at the bookstore of the devil.
:)
The reason this perturbs me is that if this does affect Seagull, then Covenant will also be affected. And if Covenant is affected, then my second book will likely never see the light of day.
Of course there is always Bookcraft...
Oh wait.
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Here's my problem with this idiotic idea: Sure, any Utahn who doesn't find what they're looking for in one store can go to another. But what if a customer in Seattle wants a book published by Covenant? The only game in town is the Deseret Book up by the temple. That means that person either has to online/mail order, or they don't get the book, because the products are so dissimilar as to be completely irrelevant. If I want to buy a Robison Wells book, a nonfiction DB title isn't going to do the trick.
This is what happens when publishers and bookstores collide. A bookstore should have a completely different agenda than a publisher, and a publisher shouldn't run a bookstore.
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you crazy Utahns.
There are people who buy church books based on brand? Because, out here, I have *never* heard that view espoused. Maybe we're just cut off from the main body of the Church to realize our salvation is in the hands of a publisher. Or maybe we just realize that when the Lord said to gain wisdom out of the best books he didn't mean that those books were only written by members of the Church.
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I see this actually cutting down on the potential success of Mormon fiction writers if all they can do is sell through either Deseret Book or Seagull and not take advantage of both.
Unless, mainstream publishers decide they want to start selling explicitely Mormon fiction. Which I don't see happening anytime in the near future.
Course, this could backfire on DB, with fewer authors submitting manuscripts to them since they would have a smaller venue.
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Here's my problem with this idiotic idea: Sure, any Utahn who doesn't find what they're looking for in one store can go to another. But what if a customer in Seattle wants a book published by Covenant? The only game in town is the Deseret Book up by the temple. That means that person either has to online/mail order, or they don't get the book, because the products are so dissimilar as to be completely irrelevant. If I want to buy a Robison Wells book, a nonfiction DB title isn't going to do the trick.
This is what happens when publishers and bookstores collide. A bookstore should have a completely different agenda than a publisher, and a publisher shouldn't run a bookstore.
Wait. Is Deseret planning on not buying from Covenant any more as well as not selling to Seagull?
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They might say the will, but the hard truth is that they don't push Covenant's books. The Logan DB bought 12 copies of my Chickens book, and they sold out in 4 weeks (I had nothing better to do than check every four or five days). They never bought anymore copies. I asked the clerk, and they said 'they might be getting some in or they could special order it'. But in the six months I went back and checked, they never ordered any more of my books.
So while they might buy a token number of Covenant books, they certainly don't push them. I believe my first report form Covenant showed that Seagull had sold about 2500 copies of my book, and DB had sold about 200.
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Wait. Is Deseret planning on not buying from Covenant any more as well as not selling to Seagull?
From what I hear, Deseret still plans to buy from Covenant, and has orders placed for Covenant's September and October releases.
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Odd thing is, I usually buy things from B&N out here instead of Deseret or Seagull.
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Yeah. The only thing I ever bought from either was Rob's books and David Farland's Mouse book, all from Seagull.
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Seagull undercuts DB's prices so much, it's no wonder DB is worried.
Interesting: I have just heard a rumor (possibly untrue) that Sheri Dew has been asked to step down. I don't think it was in conjunction with this -- I get the feeling it happened a few months ago. I'll try to find out more.
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So the real question is will this policy be reversed after she leaves, or is this seen as a way to 'fix' the problems she has caused?
I also wonder if part of DB's problem is in the fact that they have tried to do too much. They've got four different publishing imprints, they've got their movie production arm, they now sell bread in their stores... I've seen companies go under trying to do too much, and yet then there are companies who do well by branching out.
Who knows?
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Branching out in that way would mean death for a normal bookstore, because brand extension is almost never a good idea--when you're "about" too many things, you're not really about anything anymore. In the case of Deseret Book, however, their primary product is mormon culture, and the actual products involved are secondary. You go to B&N because you want a book; you go to DB because you're a Mormon. That's the image they have always tried to foster, and that's their main marketing strategy.
What that means practically is that any competition at all is bad--their image relies on the fact that there is no competition at all. The very existence of Seagull is a sign that DB is not "the" mormon bookstore, merely "a" mormon bookstore. Normally this would not be a problem, but DB's marketing premise is very shaky. What they need to do is redefine what they do and who they are--they need to be about "quality" or "convenience" or "low prices" or something like that, because being about "mormonism" is impossible to sustain in a free market.
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Mr. Matthew Buckley emailed Deseret Book and got back the following response. I'm posting it here with his permission.
Thank you for taking the time to inquire with us directly in this matter.
Deseret Book, as a publisher and wholesaler, has determined to no longer sell products to Seagull Book and Tape. Deseret Book and Seagull have a long-standing difference in views regarding how Deseret Book products should be merchandised, promoted, and treated.
Deseret Book products will continue to be available through thousands of other outlets including Wal-Mart, Sam's Club, Costco, Smiths, Walgreens, Barnes and Noble, Borders, FYE Stores, Amazon.com, hundreds of independent LDS and general bookstores, Deseret Book stores, and Deseretbook.com.
Thank you again for your interest. We genuinely hope that this decision will not cause you personal concern or inconvenience.
-Keith Hunter
VP, Sales and Development
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I was also called today by a reporter from the SL Tribune who was looking into this matter. Does anybody take that paper? There might be a story in there withing the next little bit.
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Trib had a very breif article on the subject. I hope there is more to come...
http://chickenarmpits.blogspot.com/2006/07/salt-lake-tribune-article.html
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Why am I not surprised it's over one being upset that the other doesn't advertise their books as well as they'd like.
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That's silly. If they tried that on a B&N or a Borders, not to mention any number of indie bookshops, they'd get laughed right out of the store. A bookstore has the right to put up whatever promo stuff they want in their store, and to totally discard promo stuff they receive, too. This is why bookstore real estate is so prized with publishers: it's LIMITED.
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This article makes Deseret Book sound like a bunch of snobs.
Which could be true...
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let me decipher some code:
"Deseret Book and Seagull have a long-standing difference in views regarding how Deseret Book products should be merchandised, promoted, and treated. "
ie, DB should have exclusive space and doesn't need another book store competing with them. Get real. It's not about in-store advertising or display. It's about the store itself. Seagull things that other stores should be able to sell DB products. DB thinks that Seagull shouldn't be in the market at all. That's where the difference in merchandizing, promoting, and treating comes from.
THis is what we call "Spin doctoring." They give you a bunch of words that, technically, can mean what they mean, but that no one will interpret correctly.
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Several more articles this morning, one of which quoted me...
http://chickenarmpits.blogspot.com/2006/07/more-news.html
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Your link is asking me for a password.
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My bad, should work now.
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Which one quoted you? I didn't see it.
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He was quoted in the Tribune.
Oh -- here's the reason you didn't see it: Matthew Buckley is actually his Superhero name. His secret identity is Marion Jensen. (I hope that doesn't spoil the illusion.)
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Yes it does. I have no childhood anymore thanks to you.
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What's his super power? Armpits?
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Stealing armpits.
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My armpits are very fowl in nature...
Yeah, Matthew Buckley is my pen name. Long, boring story...
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I love your quote, though--I think both companies will be ticked off by it. Which, because I am evil, makes me happy.
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Yeah, I might need somebody here to submit my next manuscript under their name... :)
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I'll add a slightly different perspective here. I spoke with some people who are a little closer to the editing side of the industry today, and one offered this perspective.
Deseret Book feels VERY threatened. Not by a rival bookstore, but by the Seagull book marketing philosophy. What they do (in the DB perception) is use DB books as their 'loss leaders.' In other words, they sell the DB books very cheaply (at cost, virtually) to draw people into the store. Then, they make money by selling those same people the Covenant books which appear discounted, but are actually produced in such a way that they're making full profit off of the 'discounted' books.
DB, then, is being undercut soundly on its own products. They have been loosing money big time lately (while they were once profitable) because nobody (in their opinion) buys their books at their stores--they go to Seagull and buy them because they're discounted so far.
This would all be fixed, of course, if the LDS publishers would adopt a more standard publishing format. You know, selling your books at a flat rate to everyone, not counting on your own retail stores to make your publishing company profitable, that sort of thing.
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Seagull just put out a press release.
http://home.businesswire.com/portal/site/google/index.jsp?ndmViewId=news_view&newsId=20060719005677&newsLang=en
"Seagull Book and Deseret Book have begun discussions to explore options for addressing the differences that have existed between our two companies," said Jon Kofford, executive vice president of Seagull Book. "In the meantime, Deseret Book has extended Seagull Book's ability to purchase Deseret Book products through the end of August 2006."
No additional details about the relationship between Seagull Book and Deseret Book will be forthcoming at this time. "
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Then, they make money by selling those same people the Covenant books which appear discounted, but are actually produced in such a way that they're making full profit off of the 'discounted' books.
Very interesting. Do you know if this is a saving on the actual production of the books, or the money spent on marketing, or what they pay authors? Or a combination? And is there a reason DB doesn't adopt the same production processes to become more competitive?
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This would all be fixed, of course, if the LDS publishers would adopt a more standard publishing format. Â You know, selling your books at a flat rate to everyone, not counting on your own retail stores to make your publishing company profitable, that sort of thing. Â
I agree. I think publishing books and being in the bookselling business just cross too many conflict of interest lines.
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What was the quote? The article seems to be gone.
This reminds me of the Apple resellers' dispute with Apple over their Apple Store accounting, though only remotely.