Timewaster's Guide Archive
Departments => Books => Topic started by: Entsuropi on August 29, 2003, 02:03:11 PM
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A fine review. While reading it, i couldnt help but think of two books by Alan Garner, 'The Wierdstone of Brisingamen' and 'The moon of Gomrath'. The storyline from wierdstone continues in Gomrath. Both it and Dark is rising draw from celtic and saxon myths and legends (ie, Welsh and English myths and legends), both are juvinile fantasy, and evidently both are surprisingly good.
You ever read those books Saint?
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No I haven't. I've read Lloyd's Chronicles of Prydain, obviously, which is thoroughly based on Welsh legends and are also very good. Maybe I'll check out this Garner person.
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FCPL has but one of those titles. I put it on reserve, but someone has it checked out, so I'll probably see it in a couple weeks. By that time I'll have finished a number of game books, so it should be cool.
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I have a whole list of books here somewhere based on myths.... somewhere. Where did I put it? As usual, they're also children's fiction. This is from the list I compiled for my fantasy class. I've been told about The Weirdstone of Brisingamen (isn't it by the same woman who wrote Witch Week... Diana Wynne Jones? Can't remember), but haven't read it yet.
Fire and Hemlock by Diana Wynne Jones (based on the Tam Lin legend)--the end of this gets a little weird, and maybe it's more of a girl book. But you might find it interesting.
The Owl Service by Alan Garner--haven't read it yet, but the people in my class who read it liked it
Megan Whalen Turner, The Thief (1996)--based on Greek myth
Elizabeth Pope, The Perilous Gard (1974)--another one that's more of a girl book, but you never know whether it might be appealin,g to a wider audience?
Wow, I had a long list, but those are the only ones you hadn't mentioned already. Except Artemis Fowl, which books are very loosely based on Irish and early British folk ideas, but not much beyond that. Oh, have you ever read The Folk Keeper by Frannie Billingsley? Very good book. That book is based on Scottish lore. A quick read--you could probably finish it off in less than a day. It's one of my favorites from recent years.
Then, of course, there are books based on folk myth other than Western European:
Yep, Laurence. Dragon of the Lost Sea. New York: HarperCollins, 1982.
Dalkey, Kara. Little Sister. New York: Penguin Putnam, 1996.
Hamilton, Virginia. The Magical Adventures of Pretty Pearl. New York: Harper & Row, 1983.
Personally, I don't recommend Pretty Pearl. The story doesn't even start until page 200-something. Little Sister is quite good. The Dragon series is really quite a starter series, one that introduces kids to fantasy but isn't as well-written as some of the more well-known series, but it does go into a few Chinese stories that I never knew about before.
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Heh, i finished Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix in less than a day, so probably I could, yeah (ok, yes, I spent 6 hours flying and 6 hours sitting in airports that day, but still....)
So here's the question. Why is such a huge percentage of the children's fantasy I hear about coming from the British Isles? Is it good old American Christian fundamentalism? Is it the familiarity with national myth and legend other than the tall tales of Paul Bunyon? Is it willingness to write that material for someone other than an under 8 crowd? And if so, what causes that willingness? Yeah, I'm aware that's an anthropological question, but I'm sure someone here has a theory (or will argue that so much of the fantasy really isn't written by our smarmy pals across teh pond).
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As you can probably see above, I added a few books to my list that are non-British, but fell asleep last night while fixing my post. So here it is.
At any rate, I do agree with you SE. I've wondered about it myself from time to time. Though there are a few, especially in recent years, that look to other cultures, the majority are fascinated by British/Celtic lore. It might have something to do with how many of the greats come from there, though--the Tolkien movement, so to speak. And early British lore is quite a rich source for ideas. It would be interesting to do a survey of the books at any given bookstore or library to see if it's really the case, or if that's just a perception because so many of the better-written ones are in the British tradition.
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I don't know that it has to necessarily be more numerous. But even if there are MORE American ones, what makes the British ones better?
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British authors are always better than American ones, SE, you know that.
Stacer, I'm pretty sure I've read Laurence Yep, but I don't think it was the Dragon books. Does he have another series?
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The Weirdstone of Brisingamen (isn't it by the same woman who wrote Witch Week... Diana Wynne Jones? Can't remember), but haven't read it yet.
Uhm, stacer observe what i wrote:
two books by Alan Garner, 'The Wierdstone of Brisingamen' and 'The moon of Gomrath'.
No, it isn't.
And i find the british author thingy interesting. Remember those Edith thingy books, all about various groups of 13 year olds? The famous 4 etc. Maybe us brits are just really good at childrens books.
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I don't think that British authors are necessarily better than American authors at writing children and young adult books. It's just that publishing a book in that field here in the US is so political.
There are a lot fo little political qiubs that seem to be required of an Americna author.
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Entropy--yeah, I wasn't reading too closely. Whoops. And I put an Alan Garner book on my list, too.
And I wasn't comparing British to American, I was comparing the number of books in the British tradition to ones from other cultures--say, the Middle East or Africa or something.
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My original question was comparing UK to US
And I think I agree with Fell. I've always enjoyed British literature far over American. Not just Juvenile lit. And I don't think politics has so much to do with it. Do you have more to say about that argument? Because I just don't see it.
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And there is a simple reason for british authors being better.
You see, it rains here. When it isn't raining, its a dull day. So we are not exactly encouraged to go out a lot. So we all sit inside and write stuff or read stuff.
:P
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My original question was comparing UK to US
I'm not reading anyone very closely lately, it seems. The effect of posting while sitting in bed about to fall asleep (I love laptops!).
Okay, UK to US. I have no idea. You're right, there are quite a few high profile British juvenile authors right now. So for someone like you, who reads a lot but isn't necessarily in the children's book world all the time, it might seem that way. And it very well may be that way, not sure. But from what I've been reading lately, there is quite a bit of good stuff coming from our side, too.
There are quite a few good American writers for younger audiences who write good fantasy, but not big epic stuff--I think a lot of American authors buy into the myth that kids won't read long books. Donna Jo Napoli retells folk and fairy tales, as does Jane Yolen, often with a twist.
I don't know quite where to put Robin McKinley, who is a transplanted American who married a Brit (her husband is Peter Dickinson, who is known in his own right as a children's fantasy author--his The Ropemaker just won the Printz award or honor medal for YA fiction a year or two ago). She's been writing for 20-25 years, mainly retellings of fairy tales (her most recent is an excellent retelling of Sleeping Beauty that I referred to in my paper, which is the only version I've seen in which the princess actively chooses her fate). She also has The Hero and the Crown and The Blue Sword, which are quest fantasy, but not based on any myth that I can specifically name.
Though it's SF, not fantasy, Karen Farmer's recent The House of the Scorpion was a really good read (won the Newbery), and her previous work, such as The Ear, the Eye, and the Arm, is even better.
And then there's Australian authors (just to complicate matters a little). Quite a few good authors out of there. Have you read Sabriel, Lirael, and now Abhorsen? I meant to review Lirael for TLE when we got a review copy of it back a couple years ago but never did. Not based on any one myth, though.
So, SE, depending on whether your question about familiarity with myth and legend was (1) just a general knowledge of it, thereby allowing the author to use that sense of wonder to create a new tale, or (2) if you were specifically asking about American authors who actively use a specific tale (or tales) to retell, I would answer: if (1), there are more than you're aware of, or if (2), you're right, and I don't know of many based on American myths. I think I would like to see more based on specifically American myth and legend.
You do get into the problem of differences in storytelling style when getting into Native American myth and legend, creating the question of whether you can be true a native story if you tell them in a Euro/American narrative style. Take the Yellow Woman stories: the tribes that tell those stories (I think it's a Navajo/Hopi/Apache tale, not sure specifically which or if more than one) use a non-narrative storytelling style--no real beginning, middle, or end, and use of direction is very big. We saw an example of it in class this summer--lots about how Yellow Woman (the corn maiden) went into the North, then the West, then the South, then the East, etc., and what happened in each place.
However, I do think that several American authors have become fascinated by myth and legend of many places around the world and have come up with some interesting stories using those myths and legends as a jumping-off point. Susan Fletcher has her own Dragon series using Scandinavian lore, and she also wrote a book retelling the Scheherazade/1001 Arabian Nights tale. American lore also includes witch lore, and there are many, many children's books dealing with whether or not witches really existed, especially in the colonial period. A good fantasy in this line is Witch Child by Celia Rees. Not a lot of actual fantasy in it--it's more historical than fantasy--but there are touches. And then there's Laurence Yep, utilizing Chinese folklore.
I'm pretty sure I've read Laurence Yep, but I don't think it was the Dragon books. Does he have another series?
I've only read the first of the Dragon books, but these are the books it lists as "also by Laurence Yep" in the frontmatter:
Sweetwater
Dragonwings
Child of the Owl
Kind Hearts and Gentle Monsters
The Serpent's Children
Mountain Light
The Rainbow People
Dragon Steel
Dragon Cauldron
Tongues of Jade
Dragon War
American Dragons: Twenty-Five Asian American Voices
Dragon's Gate
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Like many juvenile fantasies, the heroes don't seem to do much of anything but be in the right place at the right time, and sometimes are even driven where they want to go by the enemy trying to stop them.
Finally just read the review. SE, I agree with you on this up to a point, but must add that quite a few more recent books (these were written from the late 60s (Over Sea Under Stone) to the mid-late 70s) are better at allowing the protagonist to be an agent in his/her own right. I think this is what Susan Cooper was trying to accomplish in the way she dealt with Merriman, in his mysteriousness and everything, but I agree with you in that it wasn't a very effective use of him--he just ended up being confusing or annoying at times.
Great review. I agree with you on pretty much all points. The ending does get quite out there, yet it is an enjoyable ride.
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None of the Yep books sounds familiar. Maybe I just saw his name or something.
As for national mythology, african-american myth is on the rise big time right now, though it started in the "mainstream" market before moving into fantasy.
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Hmph. Just noticed that my mother has all 5 books in one of her book shelf unit things. Between Narnia and LoTR, which is a prestigious placement. Guess i'll read them. Hopefully i get into these better than that arthur series, which i just bounced out of after 10 pages.
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I've wondered about the number of young adult books based on western mythology before, Susan Cooper's books were among my favorite when I was young. Since then I've come across more books based on eastern myths, such as Journey to the West (which is an interesting one to read at the same time as Hesse's Journey to the East). I think in the US at least we often just don't know about the books based on other culture's myths because of difficulties in the translation of both the text and the ideas. And our authors don't write books based on non-Western myths because they are outside our experience and knowledge.
Another interesting series from the UK is the "His Dark Materials" books by Philip Pullman. Its a shame they aren't as popular as the Potter books, I think they are more thought provoking for kids - though perhaps that is why they are less popular.
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See, now why is this the case? If you could just chalk it up to unfamiliarity, well, is that a human species thing? Because Eastern literature, particularly that of Japan, takes a LOT of western folklore and myth and incorporates it.
Or maybe that's just what I've seen because the westerners will import stuff that's easier to take.
I think the third variation on what you're saying is that we DO get the influence of non-western culture, but we just don't recognize it. (maybe that's what you said but I just didn't understand you correctly). For example, the Magnificent Seven. How many non-Kurosawa fans knew it was based on his flick "Seven Samurai?" Just throwing out some thoughts. I don't have it all organized yet, but one more:
Multi-culturalism is a relatively new thing in the West. We still aren't used to it. But most non-western cultures have been in Colonial situations in the last couple hundred years: Africa, India, Japan, China... and have had another culture forced on them. That's why we hesitate to do it, because while these non-western cultures are used to colonial powers, using non-native mythology ocmes easier to them. While we think we're becoming "mature" by making an effort to incorporate non-western elements.
I actually have a really cool serial fiction or comic planned relying heavily on some Buddhist and Chinese religious concepts. I just need an artist or a forum for the fiction (I'd prefer comic for this one).