Timewaster's Guide Archive
Departments => Books => Topic started by: fuzzyoctopus on December 04, 2003, 08:51:26 PM
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So I got a book of short stories by D. H. Lawrence out of the library, after covering him in my lit class and being somewhat impressed by what I read.
I don't know, though. His stories are very interesting, but obviously the work of a disturbed mind. 90% of them are about women who are dissatisfied with their relationship, or don't want to HAVE a relationship. I was eerily reminded of EUOL's penchant for having his female characters avoid marriage at all costs.
So the bottom line is, nobody fashion your female characters after D.H. Lawrence, except for EUOL, who can perhaps pick up some pointers.
Actually his insight into the female mind isn't THAT bad- Lawrence has a rather disturbing ability to depict the irrational behavior of women, and from their point of view as well.
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Now, I would like to point out that I have been miss-represented. While I have a penchant for characters who avoid marriage, I have some (not as many, I admit) who look forward to it. Let's look at viewpoint characters in my current novel:
Jasnah: Female. Doesn't want to get married.
Taln: Male. Doesn't want to get married.
Shinri: Female. Eager to get married, and engaged.
Merin: Male. Never really thought about it (only 17) but not really opposed to it.
Jek: Male. Neutral.
Dalenar: Male. Has been married twice, and is currently married. Wanted to the first time, was forced into it the second time.
So, while I wouldn't argue that I tend to have a lot of characters who (perhaps) share my philosophy, I try to represent the other side as well.
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Yes, not to mention Elantris where the male and female protagonists want to get married to each other, but have troubles- as you pointed out on Tues.
I guess I just thought of you because you do try so hard to get the women "right" in your stories and Lawrence does such a good job of showing the specifics of disturbed women who don't want to be/get married.
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Now, occasionally, I do slip in a Shuden.... (that being the character in Elantris who was very anti-marriage.)
Of course, Shuden eventually fell hopelessly in love and got married. Wonder what that has any implications.
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I have a quote:
Admiring Female Fan: "How do you write women so well?"
Author: "Easy. I think of a man, and I take away reason and accountability."
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As Good As it Gets. Fantastic movie.
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*chuckles*
Like I've never heard that one from this group before...
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Voice of contrast: I hated that movie, thought it was one of the most annoying movies I've ever seen.
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I prefer this quote: "A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle."
Also over-quoted, but every time I hear that line from As Good as It Gets, U2 starts playing in my head for some reason.
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I shouldn't have changed my sig quote. If we didn't have men, Stacer, we wouldn't have any reason to be irrational.
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Your quote is really funny though.
You probably didn't enjoy it more because you don't like movies that involve mental illness, stacer. And I've met women like the one's Jack Nicoholson's (sp?) character Melvin describes. I've also met men like fuzzy's last quote.
Which of D. H. Lawrence's stories/novels do you recommend?
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Hmm, well I think I was most impressed with "The Horse-Dealer's Daughter", "Sun" and "Two Blue Birds"
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Now, I would like to point out that I have been miss-represented.
No pun intended, I'm sure.
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hehehe
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"A Woman needs a man like a fish needs a bycycle"
I remember reading something by Micheal Leunig that I can't remember exactly, but basically said that :
Fish live in the sea, and die if it becomes polluted.
Driving cars makes the sea polluted, and causes all the fish to die.
Riding a bycyle instead of a car will save the fish.
A woman needs a man like a fish needs a bycycle.
It made quite a good point, actually.
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and this is where we see the practical demonstration of how useful the Paranoia skill "Spurious Logic" can be.
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So... men cause less pollution?
Eric- excellent point. Really must play that game some day.
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You probably didn't enjoy it more because you don't like movies that involve mental illness, stacer.
I never thought of it that way, but you're probably right. Then again, it could just be that Jack Nicholson is obnoxious.
Fuzzy, what did your last sig say? Which reminds me, I need to change mine.
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My last sig said, "Women are only irrational because men are so mind-numbingly stupid."
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So what's this novel you are writing anyway? Is it a fantasy novel, or drama or whatever else you wouldn't mind saying.
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depends on who you're asking. Many of us are writing novels right now.
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Oh, anyone who is writing a novel here I would want to know about actually.
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well, the one I'm working on most seriously is the one we're talking about in the Writers Group thread. Working title is "Pek's Tale" but it'll be something else. I just have to finish at least outlining the second half before I get to that point.
Heh, it sounds cheesy to break it down to the simplest form, but it's about a boy who grows up to be a knight. (the complication being that he was born as a peasant, and this isn't something he's dreamed about). The second half is about his career as a knight.
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Sounds pretty cool, but of course I'm also really into knights. I can see a noble who has to be a knight and doesn't want to, but a peasant who becomes one and didn't really want to that sounds pretty interesting.
Like any good-blooded fan of fantasy, I'm also working on a novel. Mine is about a kagen dragonslayer (kagen = mother was human, father was dragon). Its called 33 Fortunes, and for them fortune means that one line moral at the end of fables like "don't put all your eggs in one basket" or "a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush". Its actually part of a backstory for another character I made (the one my avatar is about, Eagle Prince).
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Oh yeah and the other day I noticed a thread about someone selling their novel, so I wouldn't mind knowing the name of it so I can go buy it when it comes out.
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ah, that would be EUOL, who actually sold two manuscripts. He's doing a good job of keeping us notified about progress toward actual printing on those. He's a good writer, so you won't go wrong picking up a copy when it hits shelves.
As for your story, sounds like it has a lot of potential to be cool. If you want feedback, we could probably work you into the writers group. we'll have to see how many people are showing up for the chats regularly when all this holiday mess is over, but I think it wouldn't be a problem to add you.
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That would be cool. I could actually finish it pretty quickly if I put all my attention on it, which would probably work better for me to have it done and then I could focus on rewriting stuff people didn't like.
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The first book is called ELATNRIS, and will be out in May of 2005 in the US. The second is called THE WAY OF KINGS, and is projected to be out May of 2006. They'll both come out from Tor Books, and will be released under my real name, Brandon Sanderson. There's a 'Publication News' thread in the 'Everything Else' section where I've been posting events as they turn up.
House_of_Mustard is the other published writer on the forum. His first book comes out here pretty soon, but is being published by a local specialty press, so you probably won't be able to find it anywhere outside of Utah. It's not fantasy, but hey--publication is publication, right?
The other one to keep an eye on is Stacer, who is a professional editor. She's not in SF/F right now (children's books, right Stacer?) but again, she's got some knowledge of the business and some connections.
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Thanks for the info. I've been wondering about that ever since I started posting here. And I do live in Utah county, so hopefully I will be able to find House of Mustard's book when it comes out too. That's actually awesome its getting published by Tor. Daw and Del Rey are both good as well, but I think overall Tor is better. I'll cross my fingers that it makes Robert Jordan look bad, cause it would be a double bonus for you to get real popular and RJ to go down. heh heh. ;D
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Heh. Yeah, that would be nice. I think I've got a while before I threaten Mr. Jordan, though....
I probably should have mentioned Fellfroshe and Saint Ehlers in my post above. Neither are published yet, but both have substantial pagecounts to their names, and I've been in writing groups with both. I can safely say they're two of the better writers I've known. There's a lot of talent here on our humble little message board.
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By the way, you're in Utah? You really need to go post on the 'introduce yourself' thread so we can find out who you are.
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*blush* I never know how to respond to that. When I'm thinking about myself, I have a very high opinion of my capabilities, but when I share it, I never feel so confident. That's why I hang around, EOUL is a great ego-booster.
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The first book is called ELATNRIS
I think you mean Elantris, right? Want to make sure that title's spelled correctly when searching for it in '05! ;)
The other one to keep an eye on is Stacer, who is a professional editor. She's not in SF/F right now (children's books, right Stacer?) but again, she's got some knowledge of the business and some connections.
The ideal would be children's SF/F (middle grade and YA). I'm working at Houghton Mifflin right now in the School division (meaning elementary textbooks) but am working on getting into the trade division.... any trade division. I've actually been considering the possibility of just popping down to New York in the next few months and seeing what's available. I'm taking next semester off and re-evaluating my prospects, employment-wise. You know, considering the cost-benefit of finishing my program vs. just going to NY and getting a job. NY isn't that much more expensive than Boston, really.
Any thoughts either direction? I do only have 4 classes left to finish my master's, but it'll either be two horrendous semesters financially (like this one previous) because my school doesn't provide enough aid to live on, so I end up working full time while going to school full time (can't afford to pay for one class myself, and can't get financial aid for just one class >:(), or I'll be working full time for the next year hoping I can find a well paying enough job that will allow me to save up and go back to school again....
It just seems to me that just going to get a job, working my way up, sounds pretty good right now. Yet maybe that's just the fatalist in me, and maybe it won't look so good to have a half-finished master's on my resume.
Thoughts?
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I personally would feel better about myself if I finished the degree. Yeah, it's really hard work, but you're almost there.
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I've heard it's ten times harder to go back, but I haven't had the chance to try myself yet.
NY sounds like a great idea, but maybe you could transfer. How much time do you have left? If it's just a semester or two then you should definately finish and let NY sit on the back burner for now. I don't think you really need to worry about having a Masters and being over qualified for the positions you have experience for because you've got lots of experience.
My advice is to pray. :o Am I allowed to say that??
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I don't see why you can't say it. You did after all, give some input so she has some things to consider while praying.
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EOUL is a great ego-booster.
That goes for you too Saint.
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I'm not saying that you should leave school (in fact, I think you shouldn't) but I know you work harder than some certain editors I know of (not mine, thankfully.) I think you'll make it in NY if you go and give it a firm effort. You've got experience and connections.
If the point of getting a Masters is to get a job, and you managed to find a job anyway, then the Masters becomes something to do for fun rather than necessity. This is what it's become in my life, actually.
So, I'd say don't let the Masters rule your life--realize that it's there to enhance it. Don't move to NY, but don't let job opportunities pass by either. You can probably finish the Masters through transferring or independent study.
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An excert from Neil Gaiman's Smoke and Mirrors book.
Bay Wolf
"And there was that man Steve Jones again. "I want you to write one of your story poems for me. It needs to be a detective story, set in the near future. Maybe you could use the Larry Talbot character from 'Only the End of the World Again.'"
It happened that I had just finished co-writing a screen adaptation of Beowulf, the old English narrative poem, and was mildly surprised by the number of people who, mishearing me, seemed to think I had just written an episode of "Baywatch." So I began retelling Beowulf as a futuristic episode of "Baywatch" for an anthology of detective stories. It seemed to be the only sensible thing to do.
Look, I don't give you grief over where you get your ideas from."
32 pages of introductions. Each page foretelling a bit of how Gaiman begat the idea for the story. Later on the actual telling of stories begins, but I've not gotten there yet. Good introduction though.