Timewaster's Guide Archive
Departments => Movies and TV => Topic started by: 42 on May 26, 2006, 04:54:44 PM
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So I liked the film, but...SO MANY ethical and social issues left untouched.
I think it would have been a stronger film had they just focused on the mutant cure and taken out the whole Dark Phoenix story-line.
This would have given more time to with character development. I really would have liked to have seen more of Rogue’s storyline.
I liked all the characters (mostly), but there were so many that I wanted more time to understand each of them more.
Also, they completely have it set up for another sequel without any of the expensive stars.
Things I liked:
There was a Callisto/Storm fight, I would have been a little annoyed had they not done this. Although since when does Callisto have super-speed?
I liked Callisto, Arclight, Quills, and Psylocke. Could done with more of them.
No Jubilee.
I’ve decided that I hate Cyclops still, but James Marsden does a pretty good job playing him.
And before I forget, they did away with Cyclops, yay!!!
Too bad nobody stays dead for long the Marvel world.
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I was honestly surprised at the number of people killed in this film. Also the number they turned "normal." Although now that I think about it, since there's apparently a clip after the credits, is it Magneto moving a chess piece with his power? Because then at least I'd have hope for Rogue and Mystique coming back into their own. If they do a "next-gen" movie, I'd sure want Anna Paquin in it.
I was mostly disappointed that they didn't have Rogue kill Jean. I thought that was a major story point for Rogue's character in the comic books.
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I'm not sure about that. I have the 40 years of X-men DVD, but I"m only to issue 40, have about 450 more to go.
Like I said, there should have been more of Rogue. I really wanted to see a scene where she takes on Juggernaut, absorbs his powers, then throws him. Rogue doesn't even use her powers in the film.
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Just so you know, After the end of the credits they show Pro X inside the body of the patient that McTaggert had.
Also they show Magneto, before the credits, moving a chess piece (I confirmed that at work with a co-worker).
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I'm not sure about that. I have the 40 years of X-men DVD, but I"m only to issue 40, have about 450 more to go.
Like I said, there should have been more of Rogue. I really wanted to see a scene where she takes on Juggernaut, absorbs his powers, then throws him. Rogue doesn't even use her powers in the film.
She does, Colossus puts his hand on her in the danger room so she can get his armor to protect herself with.
As for a few other things, I love how they handled Cyclops, they used him to his fullest potential and I like the Ice Man being Ice part. The only thing I found lacking is Juggernaut himself, they really cut out 90% of his stuff for the movie (heck he's not even a mutant) and I would have liked more of a story on Shadow Cat.
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This movie was not good.
Very cheesy lines (though this was reinforced by the people sitting behind us who said "Get it?" every time one of the cheesy lines was said), and a zillion people died. Magneto was extremely callous, sending people to their death like nothing, and Wolverine was killing people left and right. All sorts of people were out of character (Professor X, etc.) compared to the first two movies. And the government people were making ethical flipflops all the time.
But mostly it's the zillions of people dead that was its problem. The first two movies had light body counts. This movie just showed a completely callous respect for human (or mutant) life. If I wanted to see people disintegrated (and I don't), I could have gone to see War of the Worlds again.
Big disappointment, and I only hope Superman is good. Though the trailer that at last actually showed some plot elements gave me pause. Making new continents? Huh?
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One thing I hated about the first two was that Wolverine wasn't killing people right and left, that's all he does in the comics.
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Though it definitely didn't live up to its potential, I don't think that this was due to the killing. I think that this movie was a victim of its own ambition. Looking through it, I see one for Angel, one for Jean/Scott/Wolverine, one for Bobby/Kitty/Rogue, and one for the cure. All of these should have been better developed. For example, they had 5 scenes with Angel in them at all. One when he was cutting off his wings, one when he was about to get the cure, one when he entered the mansion, one when he left, and one when he caught his father. Three of these scenes are 30 seconds or less. This is not even close to the proper amount of time that it would take to develop a character. (On a sidenote, I didn't like that they tried to make him an angsty teen, either. As far as I know, that was never how he was portrayed in the comics or the cartoons. However, since they portrayed a lot of things unlike they were in the comics, and not all of them were bad changes, this is only my opinion.)
Another complaint I have commonly heard is that there were a lot of people out of character. There were three that I think were, in fact, out of character; Magneto, Xavier, and Pyro. I don't think that Magneto would have abandoned Mystique so easily, even though she appeared to be normal. It didn't cross his mind that she there might be a counter to the poison in the darts? And even if there weren't, is Magneto so completely ruthless toward humans that he would abandon one that was not only formerly a mutant, but that had saved him from becoming a human? If so, then why didn't he kill the family in the car on the bridge? As for Xavier, he would never have said something so callous as "I don't have to explain myself to you." His character, when it came to dealing with Jean, was completely displaced. As for Pyro, the complaint I have against him is more minor. He was friends, of sorts, with Bobby and Rogue, in X2. Yes, their relationship was somewhat uneasy, and it was strained by their disagreements, but still, they were friends. And, he was never so hostile toward Xavier as he seemed to be in this movie. Both of these can be somewhat accounted for by his closeness to Magneto, but since Magneto was friends with Xavier, I have a hard time believing that Pyro would try to curry favor with Magneto by threatening Xavier's life. And I have an even harder time believing that he would be so eager to kill Bobby, considering they were on decent terms at the end of the last movie.
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I think when you say out of character you have so say "out of character from Singer's take or for the comics?" because I think Magneto and Xavier were in character with how they are in the comics but not so much to Singer's take on them.
As for all the additional characters Ratner had the problem that the director before him had already hired all these people so he had to work them into the story he wanted to tell.
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Well that is understandable, but did the studio cut his funding? And if not, then why not make a longer movie? An hour and 44 minutes is pretty short, he had a lot of room to expand.
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Hard to say with the length, maybe it was out of the directors hands. It's not uncommon for the studio to set the length of the movie to "maximize" how many showings there are in a day. And with X3 taking in $45 million in one day alone I could say that this could be a safe assumption.
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Well, I can see little bit of Ookla's complaints. There are too many people who die on whim.
I don't mind that Wolverine or Phoenix kill a lot of people, but it that some of the people die are just too important in the Marvel Universe to just be killed off so whimsically.
My biggest complaints are that the movie just keeps bringing up important/resonating ethical issues and then drops them without any sort of satisfactory resolution.
The whole "cure" story line resonated with several social issues like homosexuality, racism, autism, and ADHD. Yet it seems like Ratner went out of his way to avoid these issues. I really think he needed to think more about the characters and draw much clearer lines about where each character stood on the issue. The cure concept wasn't going to have black and white sides, which I think Ratner realized this so he just skirted around the issue rather than have to think too hard.
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I think my biggest problem was that a lot of things were underdeveloped.
There were a lot of storylines running through this movie, and if they had focused on like just two of them, they could have developed them better.
Also, for a fourth movie... they not only opened the door, but they set out cookies and milk to make it more inviting... Im wondering how far they will take this oh Im dead oh Im not anymore... cuz it could get old pretty quick (and yes I know that in Marvel world nobody stays dead long.. but in movie world?)
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According to IMDB Omega Red was in the movie, maybe a deleted scene, so was Spike and Jubilee (which continues her role of being in all three movies without a single line of dialog).
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"Jubilee, you will go along, but not say or do anything."
Well, at least one character was completely developed.
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I agree with the opinions that there were too many storylines and not enough character development, and that too many big, important characters were either killed off, shunted to the side, or lost their powers. Even the main characters we got to see the whole way through didn't get a lot of development time. The last two movies were all about character development, so this movie is really jarring.
That said, I enjoyed watching it, but it just didn't move me the way the first two did. The first two did things that I connected with. This one--not so much.
However, that said, it makes sense--and is important, even--that if they were doing something as big as the Phoenix line, to have the story have a steep price. But I still don't have to enjoy the sheer numbers of characters that I loved being wiped out.
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No I will tell you what it needed to be cooler, the end should have had the mutants fighting more of the sentinels instead of just human army men (like that big robot dude they fought in the training room). Then in the middle there should have been a 10 or so minute slugfest with all the bruisers, ie Juggy vs Wolverine, Colossus, Beast, Iceman (in full ice armor), rather than that little tease before Xavier is dusted. And in the sequel everyone better stay dead (except the Professor, for the Wolvie, Magnito, Onslaught bit.. hah, it could be a crossover of the other superhero movies ;D). Oh yeah, and I think it is more than time for Rogue to kill some mutant so she can have more regular powers finally.
But my first question is why the kid took away Juggernaut's powers? I thought he wasn't a mutant, but the avatar of Cyttorak? Unless the kid actually made an antimagic field that could null a deity. Hmm, nice power, hehe. I guess they just didn't have the extra minute to explain it.
I did like when Wolverine was getting burned away at the end, but kept regenerating too fast to die. Heh, and you could see his metal-coated bones at times, whoah... so that is what an adamantium ribcage looks like.
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I did like when Wolverine was getting burned away at the end, but kept regenerating too fast to die. Heh, and you could see his metal-coated bones at times, whoah... so that is what an adamantium ribcage looks like.
I noticed that, too. Very nice touch, IMO.
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Does that mean my PC can have regeneration and adamantine bones now?
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Just to clear up the Juggernaut is an off-again-on-again mutant. In the Unlitmate X-men line he's a mutant, but in the the original line he's usually a mystical force. However, there are several issues in the original line that leads one to believe that he might really be mutant whose powers have been enhanced by mystical forces.
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Does that mean my PC can have regeneration and adamantine bones now?
I ain't yer pappy. Nor am I your GM. Your PC can have anything he wants, as far as I'm concerned. As long as my PC gets equally cool stuff.
As far as the sentinels go, remember that in this movie, the president is mutant-friendly, so he wouldn't be building sentinels. And in any case, the X-Men movies are trying to be more "realistic" than the comics. While the American public may be willing to sacrifice rights in order to stop the bad guys, I don't think they would be willing to overlook the collateral damage, both in property value and civilian lives, that would come from sentinels tearing up the landscape. I once read an X-Men comic set in Genosha (I think) wherein that government brainwashed and used mutants as weapons. IMO, that would be a more realistic (and really cool) storyline, and one I'd like to see in an upcoming movie.
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Despite the fact that I saw X3 while on a date, I must say the movie didn't give me much of a rush. I failed to be wowed or really engaged by the story or the characters. I, like others, found the characterization annoyingly "off" but, more importantly, lacking in a poignancy or depth that was present in the first two, particularly in the second film. If that means X3 was more comic-bookish than the others, well ... I guess that means I really don't care for that style because it's less realistic to me.
More than anything, this movie felt like a spastic roll call or egotistic curtain call that enabled Ratner/Marvel to simply parade as many Mutants as possible on screen without delving into deep emotional issues or tightening up the plot. Really, I felt quite distanced from all the characters; it really disappointed me. When Xavier died, my overwhelming thought was, "Huh. Shoot!" Basically, though, I couldn't connect emotionally with the scene. The whole scene was flat somehow, and all I could muster was a vaguely upset reaction.
The first two movies were more pathos-rich by far. They drew me in and gripped me, like the moment when Wolverine thinks Rogue is dead or when Wolverine re-experiences his adamantium transformation or when both Scott and Wolverine mourn Jean as they hover above the rushing water. I could go on, but the point is that the third movie barely seemed to make an effort at emotional impact. It was all crash and blam and lookie-who's-on-screen-now! type of thing.
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When Xavier died, my overwhelming thought was, "Huh. Shoot!"
Im notorious for getting overemotional at movies. If a character I like dies, I usually get upset. I love Prof X, and that was basicly my reaction too. And hey, bash Cyclops all you want, I normally woulda cried at his death... nothin. I had some residuals from the last movies, "aw man that blows" but thats it.
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Further evidence, that despite saying otherwise, no one likes Cyclops.
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Even Though Cyclops is one of the cooler powers. if you can see it, you can kill it.
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except he cant, and everyone seems able to beat him.
Oh and Shrain... all I have to say on the Prof X issue is that people should really wait until all the credits are done for the kicker...
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I know what you are talking about Jeffe! :)
Yeah.. for some reason, realtively weak mutants seem to be able to take a blast of pure energy and get up as though nothing had happened.
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So, I cant help but disagree from some of the points yall have brought up,... respectfully disagree of course, but disagree I do.
I dont feel like the loss of certain heroes was a bad thing. Its the curse of ensemble films to need to prune characters from time to time. As a franchise its good to switch folks out, however definatively. The mutant "cure" is hardly definiative, especially since it seems magneto is getting his powers back, so I can see it being only a temporary fix especially given Leech's power. Really the only truely dead hero is Scott because lets face it Pheonix has more than enough power to survive logan... and anyway Scarlett Witch anyone. Some of the Dialog was weak, but overall I liked this film as much as the second one. None of the Xmen films have been IMHO spectacular, but they have been nice. Oh and E and I both agree Storm was pretty good in this, much better than in the first two.
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Imo, it's not losing the main characters so much as *how* and *why* it's done--how well that staggering loss is executed. In this case, Xavier's death and all the other carnage was so . . . distant and clinical, for lack of a better word.
I did kind of like the post-credits scene with Magneto, though I was arguing with Ryan that the chess piece did too move! lol. I definitely had an inkling way before this that this cure couldn't be a permanent thing. Yet I think it's a smart move. I just wish more had been done with the brilliant "cure" idea.
Also, I must say that while I see why the Phoenix was scripted as a mere alternate personality, I dislike how it translated into Xavier being a jerk and Jean being so much more to blame for Xavier's death. It's kind of ironic that one of the things I enjoyed best in the movie was not a performance but, rather, a special effect. Wolverine's adamantium skeleton showing through his skin as he tries to get close to Jean was snazzy. At least there was that--and the wobbling chess piece!
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wrong post credits scene ;) theres a post credits Prof X scene that I was referring to.
As for Prof X being a bit of a jerk,... he is. Oh sure he's a great man, but thats what the whole onslaught storyline is all about. His repressed issues. Sometimes he makes ethical choices that are, difficult to explain or just downright wrong. I mean look at how he handles everyone in all the movies. Oh sure, he's kind but there is something patronizing and wrong about him too. Why not tell Wolverine all he knew about the Alkeli lake project, it was clear he knew more than he let on. I always got the idea that he talked down to everyone, (maybe its just his smugness). The other interesting thing to consider about Xavier is that he might have also been acting out of repressed love for Jean (something in the comics but not fleshed out in the movies) and another trigger for the eventual appearence of Onslaught.
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wrong post credits scene ;) theres a post credits Prof X scene that I was referring to.
Hmm? What, there was *another* scene?? Rats! What was it?
The other interesting thing to consider about Xavier is that he might have also been acting out of repressed love for Jean
Huh. Gee, who *isn't* in love with Jean?
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i doubt we'll be seeing Onslaught. Ever. Nuff said.
this movie was tightly plotted. I'm wondering where you guys are getting all your complaints. They seem to boil down to "I wanted this." Soo... because the movie wasn't made the way you would it was terrible? It had connected all the events. There was no deus ex, and they made very effective use of the powers they chose to use. The XMen are clearly torn over what they have to do to take care of business. Even though they're watching Magneto go out of control, they still hesitate to use the "cure" on him. Is it worse to kill someone or fundamentally revoke his personality? Even Logan isn't sure on that one. McCoy (and to a lesser extent Warren and Marie) did an excellent job demonstrating the appeal and ethical problems with taking the drugs. I wasn't at all bothered that they didn't choose to shove homosexuality or race issues in my face. The unthinking viewer would only be turned off by that. The thinking viewer will make the connection on his own. I really don't think it was supposed to be an opinion piece.
Seriously, the way Cyclops died was traumatic. Really creepy. In his short bits, I was convinced he was "changed" as Prof X said.
Xavier dying was clinical? What movie did you see? I saw Magneto and Wolverine watching one of the men they respect most in the world DISINTEGRATED by someone he trusted most. I was pretty moved. I don't get moved. So, we'll just counter your "I'm notoriously sentimental" examples.
Marko in the movie was clearly a mutant. They changed his origin. Deal with it. They also didn't make him Xavier's brother.
I also see *very* little that is nearly as inconsistent in characters as everyone else seemed to be. Again, this seems to me to be a case of deciding how the character *should* be instead of watching how the character actually *is*. I'd be just as pissed as Xavier at Logan in that situation. He made what was an extremely difficult and weighty decision about how to handle Jean. He had to think through consequences and in the end made a very debateable decision, but he couldn't think of a better answer. He's busy trying to repair damage and help someone and Logan, who comes and goes as he pleases without any apparent sense of loyalty or dedication, starts telling him he made the wrong choice. How would you react? Calm and patiently even though you're at your mental and emotional limits? Or would you bark at him so you don't have to rehash a weighty decision you made decades ago? He did what made sense.
As for the Bobby/Pyro thing, that made a lot of sense to me too. He always felt like he was inferior to Iceman, who had a similar power he could call on any time. Whenever he used his power, he was always shut down. Along comes Magneto who tells him he's "a god" and encourages him to act as he wants. He doesn't truly understand the Brotherhood's ideals, but he throws himself into what he believes. In addition, there's no demonstration that he *ever* liked Rogue in the least, he resented her, especially when she absorbs his power to reverse what he's done. And here is former friend is still all over the chick. What's the natural result of separation from a former friend and a focus on the things that were disagreeable? Hatred. Pyro is the ultimate "hot head" (if I may be permitted the term). He thinks that violence is the answer. He's out to get Bobby to show he's better than him and he thinks violence and death are the only way to do that.
Magneto rejecting Mystique. He had no remorse over Toad or Sabretooth. He has always used all of his allies for his own end. Mystique no longer has any interest in his cause, as far as he's concerned. She's become what he hates. He's disgusted. He no longer thinks of normal people as human. they're just animals. That's what mystique has become. He's long past considering the nuances of that.
Other differences of opinion? Storm: well handled. She's the natural leader. And seriously. She can turn a sunny day into a snow storm in seconds. That's not power? Let's face it. she roxxor. And she's got a *much* more level head than Scott *ever* did.
Worst line delievery? McKellan. The only really terrible line in the whole movie is Magneto saying "what have I done?" He doesn't even say it as if he's asking what sort of typo he made in a letter to his mom. It was completely blase, and then he turns around calmly. Blah. Good actor Ian, but you stinked that shot up so badly it's *still* in my mouth.
I saw enough of Rogue. What more could they do with her storyline? This extends to the "only six of us" because more were supposed to be there. Well, who else was supposed to be there? Jean? With the bad guys. Cyclops? dead. Nightcrawler? Not an X-Man. Xavier? also dead. Rogue? off getting her powers removed. well, there you go.
The only really terrible part of the film was Colossus. Terrible development there (as in, not even an attempt). You almost forget he's even there.
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Shhhh...Don't use logic on our movie reviewers it angers them and may cause them not to write for us anymore.
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Logic has no place in comic books, or their movies.
[whisper] Psst, Spriggan, you need to whisper, or else they will hear you and know what is going on. [/whisper]
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Someone argue with SE, I don't have the energy right now.
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I would, but I am procrastinating SE's comeuppance while I make up for procrastinating on writing an encyclopedia article that should have been done a month ago... Must get the freakin' thing done!
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I suppose I will "argue"
Yeah, the way Prof X died was traumatic. Yeah two guys watching someone they respect die like that is traumatic. But there was no emotional connection to the characters in this movie. Had we been allowed to make the emotional connection then his death would have been heart wrenching. But the connection to the character was lacking.
The Bobby/Pyro thing also makes sense to me. The rejection of Mystique makes sense to me.
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I saw the movie and thought it was good. Juggernaut is the best character there. Cyclops and Proffesor X are nerds and i'm glad they got killed at the start. No-one liked cyclops.
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word
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Everyone no one likes is ok to die.
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/me attempts to parse the grammar in that post and fails.
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*Archon sets fire to that post, so that its infection will not spread.*
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/me vaccinates the thread with a simple rewrite:
It is okay to kill off a movie character if nobody likes said character. (FMJ)