Timewaster's Guide Archive
Games => Role-Playing Games => Topic started by: 42 on February 10, 2003, 05:38:30 PM
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So I've been having a discussion with one of my hologram friends about the difference between pen and paper RPGs and video Game RPGs.
One of the things I notice, is that in pen and paper you have more freedom from the rules of the game. This also leads to less compulsion to maximize statistics.
Course, with video game RPGs you don't have to deal with as many unknown factors or personality conflicts.
Also what do you do with a video game RPG player in a pen and paper game?
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PnP leads to less minmaxing? I don't really agree with that. I mean, you were in the group with Farg. I don't know how much more absurdly minmaxed a character can get.
But putting a CRPG player into a PnP game? Idunno, it's not that hard. I was a computer-only person my whole life until the game we played that you were in. The transition didn't seem that dramatic.
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I don't know if I agree PnP consciously reduces min/maxing, but it certainly makes it easier to avoid stats if you wnat to.
On the other hand, I don't believe there IS such a thing as CRPG. NWN comes close, but it's the DM running it that does it. The single player story isn't any different than other games.
Note, I'm not saying that what are commonly referred to as RPG video games are crap (though Final Fantasy 7 was). Just that they are not "Role Playing." You're too locked into one story. You can't break out. You have a limited set of choices, etc. There's no room for personal goals or for player influence on the story beyond a few pre-determined sets. It's all about the story goal.
My 2 bits
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It rather that CRPG encourages maximizing statistics, where as PnP doesn't. In PnP the players can try to maximize stats, but they don't have to in order to survive the game. CRPG don't have a referee that allows youto play a weak, useless character.
My problem with the CRPG player is that he is quite offensive in a PnP game. He treats the referee like a computer when the referee is not one (expecting instant decisions and results). Also, he fails to pay attention to the needs and wants of the other players. Also, he can't seem to get out of meta-game thinking and into the story-line.
I have to agree with St. Ehlers that, to me, computer RPGs don't seem like role-playing at all. However, it is what many people think of as role-playing (misguided as they might be).
So I'm trying to get this one player away from the direct mono-linear thinking of CRPG and into the problem solving multi-linear thinking of PnP (not everyone makes an easy transition). The other players don't seem to have any problems thinking multi-linear, just this one player gets frustrated by having multiple solutions.
So do I keep giving tough problems with varied answers that aren't easily apparent or should I dumb things down into a hack-and-slash sort of campaign? I think the other players woud enjoy a hack-and-slash type campaign, except for one. Course I think I would tire of a hack-and-slash type campaign after a few sessions.
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is this the same guy who wants you to USE STRICT; when it comes to the rules?
Again, I think you shouldn't cater to ONE person. If they all want hns style gaming, more power to them, that's what they'll have fun with. However, if most want a complex story that they have influence on, you should be playing that.
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I agree that I shouldn't cater to one person. I've decided that most of the group would prefer a story intensive, real roleplaying type campaign. What I would like to do is encourage the one discenter to quit his complaining and at least try to enjoy the role playing end of the campaign. So I'm looking for a way to include a little CRPG in a PnP without letting it dominate.
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just include a nice, big fight scene once a session. I like interaction, but I'll also admit it's fun to kick some butt every now and then.
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Video game (we are polliticaly correct here at the TWG no so no Computer) RPG's are defined rather simply:
And turn based game where in the players gane experence from fighing/quests and thus gain lvls.
The Turn based was allwasye for 2 reasions:
1) Pen and Paper use turns
2) Well at the time they relay started techonology prevented real time.
I don't think you can compair Pen and Paper and video game RPGs. they are compleatly different games. and People play them for different reasons. VGPRG are very stroy driven games, and that's why people play them. The whole "I'm apart of a movie" theam that Square bases thier FF games off of. and while PNPRPG can be story driven (that's based off the players and DM) it beleave that they're played for the social aspect of the game. and PNPRPG have the "I'm a part of a book" feeling to me. And just like when you take a book and make it into a movie you loose things in the translation.
Of course now days you have the internet and the introductuion of games like MMOPRGs and NWN (which by the way everyone at Bioware who worked on that game should be draged out in to the street and shot). MMORPG's are played for more the social aspect of them. You can't play one of those games and say, wow what a great and complex game. They're just too simple of games. NWN does bring a new aspect to the VGRPG aspect, but it will never replaice PNP for several reasons. It just takes to long to make an adventure, and the DM tool is very clucnky at best. And there still is nothing like being there with other people playing and rolling dice.
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Hey Spriggan, speaking of video game RPGs, I have a question: now that you're so addicted to DAoC, do you use your PS2 much? I'd like to borrow it if I could, as well as Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance (or whatever that BG game was called).
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Well, NWN may never replace pnp, but I think it shows that it is at least possible to create electronic tools for that. Eventually, I think it may be possible to create an open ended story/world using the electronic tools. However, to fully emulate the possibilities of PNP gaming that will take many years. At least to do it in a practical way for beginning or intermediate user. Right now, I agree, PNP provides too many options, both in game and meta-game for VGRPG to compete with it on the same grounds. Which is why I think they haven't tried before.