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Games => CCGs => Topic started by: Fellfrosch on August 28, 2002, 02:32:01 PM

Title: Rumors
Post by: Fellfrosch on August 28, 2002, 02:32:01 PM
For those interested, here are some of the more interesting rumors about the upcoming Magic Block (ie, the next three sets).

The names are verified: Onslaught, Legions, and Scourge (in that order).

The Cycling mechanic will be back, with the same name and same effect.

The main new mechanic (which has been pretty firmly verified) is one called Morph, which lets you play a creature face down (as a token, basically) as a 2/2 for 3 mana. None of the rumors I've read mention color, so I'm assuming that the 2/2 creature is colorless. Then, at any time, you can pay the Morph cost for a facedown creature and flip it over; it then becomes a real creature. One example I've seen is the Blazing Firecat, which Morphs for two red mana into a 7/1 creature. I don't know for sure if you can play the creatures straight from your hand, or if you have to bring them out unmorphed and then morph them. Either way, it sounds like a very interesting mechanic.

The second new mechanic is one that has not been fully explained or confirmed. It's called Tribal, and has a coat-of-arms kind of effect (ie, Tribal creatures get bigger when similar creatures are in play). This is a lot like the old Plague Rats ability, which I always loved, so I'd like to see this rumor turn out to be true.

The final rumor is a weird one, but one I find to be extremely intriguing. You know how in Odyssey Block the colors were unbalanced from set to set? In Onslaught Block the colors will be even, but the spell types will be unbalanced: Legions allegedly contains nothing but creature spells, and Scourge will have no creatures at all. This, of course, is still an unproven rumor, but it's very interesting.

All in all, I'm think it sounds like an interesting environment. The cycling in particular will interact well with Threshhold and Odyssey Block. What are your thoughts?
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: GuJiaXian on August 28, 2002, 03:34:52 PM
Cycling was a fun, if somewhat boring, ability.  The tribal ability sounds interesting: a million other cards already have the ability; sounds like they've just finally given it a name.
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Fellfrosch on August 28, 2002, 05:25:03 PM
Yeah, Tribal been around for a while in unnamed form. Kind of like when they started using Haste instead of "this creature is unaffected by summoning sickness."
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: GuJiaXian on August 28, 2002, 05:52:01 PM
Exactly.  I guess it tightens up rules clarifications and the length of text on the cards.  I'm glad they're bringing back some of the older mechanics...I'd personally like to see a new resurgance of Banding, myself.
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Fellfrosch on August 28, 2002, 06:40:08 PM
Banding would be an interesting one to bring back--it disappeared because the designers didn't really like it, from what I understand, but I think a lot of that is because they didn't implement it well. I'd be interested to see what they could do with it.
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Lord_of_Me on September 01, 2002, 04:25:51 PM
from what i hear it's going to be very creature heavy
especially legions, ....legions of creatures....
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Prometheus on September 02, 2002, 01:08:07 AM
Banding was also fairly confusing, even for players who weren't new to the game. I've read some rules clairifications on it recently to be sure of what my one banding card does, but I really don't think we'll be seeing that one again. Phasing was the same way. It seems to be used in totally different ways on different cards...I'm not sure the designers understood how it worked.

The new Morph mechanic will be an interesting change to the game...all the creatures with reusable 2 point direct damage that's applicable to creatures will suddenly be a lot more attractive. If you can kill a Morphing creature before the Morph spell actually resolves, I would assume the whole thing fails. I'd expect to see at least one Chainflinger-like creature coming along soon from red. Tribal is a good one to focus on I think. Creature-typed decks are a little underpowered at present it seems.
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Fellfrosch on September 02, 2002, 01:51:52 AM
According to the rumors, morphing a face-down creature is not a timed ability--ie, it doesn't go onto the stack. It happens instantly, like tapping a land for mana.
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Fellfrosch on September 03, 2002, 02:05:06 PM
Okay, the initial rumor I heard about Tribal was incorrect. It turns out it's not an actual mechanic, but more like the Invasion-block Domain powers--ie, a type of ability rather than a named mechanic. Whereas the Domain spells grew more powerful when you had multiple land types in play, the Tribal spells grow more powerful when you have several creatures of a given type. The only example I remember off the top of my head is a red instant that costs one red mana, and then produces one red mana for each goblin you have in play.

Most of this news, by the way, I'm picking up from www.mtgnews.com, so you can look at some of the cards for yourself.
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Prometheus on September 03, 2002, 04:24:25 PM
Either way, the tribal mechanic will give more clout to creature-type themed decks, which I think is a very good thing.
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Fellfrosch on September 03, 2002, 05:52:31 PM
Agreed. I look forward to seeing more creature theme decks, mainly because I'm always tempted to build them myself.
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Prometheus on September 03, 2002, 07:57:03 PM
Yeah I'm still working on my angel/dragon deck...it has a few other creature types as backup, but every creature type in the deck is focused so far. Maybe this tribal stuff will come off nicely for me.
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Fellfrosch on September 11, 2002, 05:42:27 PM
You can find the full Onslaught spoiler here: http://216.127.88.11/tracing/on/

There's some pretty amazing cards there. Check out the Supreme Inquisitor.
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Lord_of_Me on October 15, 2002, 05:28:03 PM
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/feature/30

Is this a joke?
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Fellfrosch on October 15, 2002, 06:26:20 PM
I don't imagine they have April Fools' Day in England, so I'll give you a helpful hint: anything dated April first can be reasonably assumed to be false. It's kind of a thing we do here.
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Lord_of_Me on October 16, 2002, 08:55:20 AM
i know i omly clicked on the link on the page after posting ;D
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Spriggan on October 16, 2002, 02:56:16 PM
I'd go a stepp farther and say don't trust most things any American tells you on April 1st.  The fact that we could play a joke on a forener realy easy that day make's it too tempting.  You have no Idea how many Japanese I've gotten on that day.
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Prometheus on December 07, 2002, 03:31:57 PM
Ok, it's not actually a rumor, but I didn't want to make a new thread for just this little news item.

Check out the results of a recent Wizard's web event, the creation of a card for the Spring 2003 expansion.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/feature/109

I forwent voting on this one despite the fact that I was aware of it because I didn't feel like signing up an account on Wizard's site or something. (Requisite for participation) After reading this article, however, I think I'll get involved in the next one.
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Lord_of_Me on December 08, 2002, 07:20:14 AM
i voted in the last four or five votes, just think how good this would be in a phantom deck...
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Prometheus on December 08, 2002, 01:45:59 PM
You're right there, although I'm not a big fan of Phantoms myself. They're strong and cool for sure, but they aren't quite as invincible as some people make them out to be. I'd rather rely on first strike as a defensive mechanic.

The thing that's really killing me about Forgotten Ancient (Other than the fact that we almost had a new Spike. I miss Spikes.) is that I recently put a combination of Spike Colonies, a Spike Rogue, and a Chlorophant in one of my decks, intending them to be an 'armory' for the rest of the creatures in the deck, and the Forgotten Ancient can do just about everything the whole lot of them can in one card, plus make other people somewhat reluctant to cast spells. Annoying at best. My armory does have some instant-speed tricks that Forgotten Ancient can't mirror though, so at least I'm not totally wasting all those card slots.

On the other hand, the Elemental creature type is becoming ever more viable.
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Fellfrosch on December 23, 2002, 05:48:06 PM
Here you go, the first two known cards from the next set (Legions):

http://www.mtgnews.com/story/1136/1/1/1/

The second seems more like an Odyssey hoser than anything else, though it could be useful against a number of standard black tricks. The blue card, on the other hand, sets an interesting precedent: abilities that activate when you flip over a Morph card. That should help make Morph a bit more interesting.
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Lord_of_Me on December 24, 2002, 07:49:40 AM
i thought the same thing when i saw that card, it gets rid of threshold, flashback and incarnations but seems pretty useless otherwise
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Prometheus on December 24, 2002, 05:10:19 PM
Realistically we're going to need an Odyssey hoser to come out every now and again. Without that, other Magic blocks wouldn't be able to compete with graveyard decks in a reasonable way. I like the card overall...isn't too hard to get rid of if it's hurting you, just kill the 2/2 zombie. Not that bad. I think the price for the ability is low though. I'd rather see something like: "Remove two cards in your graveyard from the game: Remove target card in a graveyard from the game." Most decks couldn't use it as well, but if it were common and/or more useful on its own (3/3 instead of 2/2 maybe) I'd like it even better than Withered Wretch.

When I saw Fell post something about a new use for Morph, I thought of something more along the lines of what Astral Slide did for cycling, but the ability is still cool. Finally we have a reason to Morph something other than for the surprise factor or for the odd card that is easier to cast via Morph. If they added some new spells that allowed players to flip Morph cards up and down it'd start to feel a little like the gating mechanic from Planeshift. That brings up my problem with the Willbender though. Any other card I've seen that has a similar target-changing effect is rare, (and rightfully so. Changing targets is even more powerful than a counterspell and they can be countered, unlike Willbender. I don't see any reason for it to be uncommon. It also suggests to me that we won't see much new support for flipping Morph cards back face-down, since that would make Willbender a great deal more powerful, which I hope the dev team isn't setting about doing. It's already plenty tough for an uncommon without being easily reusable.
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Lord_of_Me on January 01, 2003, 08:55:01 AM
backslide and break open already flip morphers up and down

and, this is scary

Krosan Cloudscraper
7GGG
Creature - Beast Mutant
At the begining of your Upkeep, sacrifice Krosan Cloudscraper unless you pay GG.
Morph 7GG (You may play this card face down as a 2/2 creature for 3. Turn it face up any time for its morph cost.)
13/13
Illus. Ron Spears
130/145
Rare
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Prometheus on January 04, 2003, 10:38:56 PM
You're right about backslide and break open, but what I was talking about would take better support for that kind of thing to be really viable, like maybe enchantments or creatures that could do it repeatedly.

And, while you're right about the cloudscraper being scary, it really isn't that tough by itself. You find things like that out when you play with the Chlorophant. If your opponent has any kind of real defense, he won't have a problem handling your big tough monster. A high native power like that can even turn into a disadvantage. I'd much rather have a Butcher Orgg or Silvos, Rogue Elemental if I wanted a big creature. Things like those are much more likely to get the job done. That combined with its high mana cost and upkeep make me leery of the Cloudscraper.

As far as rumors go, I heard someone down at Game Den mention that Legions was coming out this month.
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Lord_of_Me on January 06, 2003, 09:24:47 AM
it is previews are on the wizards site starting today, in other news there ia a green theme deck, a green-white-blue, and a white-blue theme deck.
The symbol is two swords crossed behind a shield, and the novel has akroma on the cover
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Prometheus on January 06, 2003, 11:49:58 AM
Yeah. They should also be starting up the new Create a Card event today, so maybe i'll finally set up an account over there.
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Lord_of_Me on January 06, 2003, 12:05:06 PM
they give you a password though and they're always really weird
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Prometheus on January 06, 2003, 01:48:45 PM
I'll put up with a weird password as long as I have an outside shot at helping to design the next Kavu. (OK, so it's a really long outside shot.)
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Fellfrosch on January 06, 2003, 05:42:00 PM
The next Kavu as in specific Kavu creature, or the next Kavu as in new funky creature type of your devising?
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Prometheus on January 07, 2003, 12:44:05 PM
Specifically a Kavu-type creature. They're funny and I miss them. I doubt they're in Wizard's plans for the future, though, and that's why I admitted that it was a really long shot.
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Fellfrosch on January 07, 2003, 06:43:43 PM
I would sooner call it an impossibility than a long shot, but they seem to be bringing back slivers so I suppose anything could happen.
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Prometheus on January 08, 2003, 12:25:13 AM
Spikes was also one of the voting options in the last Make a Card event, which I didn't think we'd ever see again.
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Fellfrosch on January 09, 2003, 07:52:55 PM
If half of the rumors on this spoiler turn out to be true, I'll be a happy man.

http://216.127.88.11/tracing/le/
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Prometheus on January 09, 2003, 08:13:59 PM
Surprisingly, I'm not so sure about how well I like Double Strike. It's cool for a creature to do damage twice, I guess...but a large part of the point of a first strike creature is to kill during the first strike phase, and I'd expect (and hope) that Double Strike creatures have low powers for their casting costs. The double strike elemental indicated in that article, for instance, costs 7 mana for 4 double strike power, and its a rare with no other abilities aside from morph. I'd probably play with them if I got some, but from a normal first strike vantage, a 5 power first striker has significant advantages over a 4 power double striker. (Like the power to stop Silvos, Rogue Elemental cold, for instance.)
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Lord_of_Me on January 10, 2003, 01:10:15 PM
yeah i don't like double strike either but i don't care because...
(http://wizards.com/global/images/magic_expansion_legions_famous1LargePic_en.jpg)
and
(http://wizards.com/global/images/magic_expansion_legions_famous2LargePic_en.jpg)
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Prometheus on January 10, 2003, 03:49:46 PM
Akroma I like...powerful but expensive and manageable. She also reillustrates my point that first strike creatures almost always cost 2+power mana no matter how many other mods are on them. I'll likely try to get her if I can. Phage though...not my style of card. Winning (or losing) the game so easily...nah. It just might throw a wrench in the plans of all those tourney players that elect to forego creature defenses though. That'd be amusing.
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Lord_of_Me on January 10, 2003, 04:50:16 PM
you have to admit that once either of those are in play the game is essentially over
unless astral slide on phage....
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Prometheus on January 10, 2003, 05:53:19 PM
Nah. Akroma is stoppable. Kinda tough, but stoppable. And all one really has to do to Phage is kill or block her. It depends largely on what else is in play. Both could be held off indefinitely by the right cards... some blue cards especially come to mind.

Phage's creature destruction ability is also one of the least scary varieties I've seen out there. She actually has to do damage to the creature, which means damage can be done back to her, and she'll presumably die since I'd block her with plenty enough to slay her if it was me. Jeska, Warrior Adept could hold her darker form off alone without any difficulties. (First strike damage + tim == dead Phage & alive Jeska)

Akroma is, in my mind, much harder to stop. Protection from red and black take out a large portion of easy destruction capabilities. That, and you have to be ready to stop her by the time she comes out...haste + trample + flying + first strike + not tapping is really scary, but there's still an element of struggle involved. I like it. Green has few sky blockers, and even fewer that could hope to stop Akroma without a solid enchantment or an instant or something. Blue has lots of flyers, but few that could knock her down. My best bet there would be to get her out of play via a return to hand ability or something. Or just counter her. White has some angels that could take on Akroma, but not without a little help.

Don't misunderstand me. I'm impressed with both of these cards. I just also acknowledge that there are good ways to stop them both, and that I don't like Phage...there's no struggle if she wins the game for you.
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Fellfrosch on January 10, 2003, 07:05:50 PM
You could say that about any creature that deals lethal damage. Is it that much different to set the stage for a Phage attack than to set the stage for a deadly creature assault?
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Prometheus on January 10, 2003, 10:18:42 PM
For me, yes. My reasoning for not liking Phage follows a lot along the lines of the same stuff that inspired my Slugfest Central deck, and that earned me a Marauder personality type on that Blackborder MTG personality quiz, and that drive me to slaughter all an opponent's pieces in a chess game before the end, though, so if you don't agree don't worry about it. I'd simply rather have a good fight and maybe even lose than win without one.

Now that I think about it, Phage is somewhat unique in being one of the cards that wins the game in a way I find distatsteful (like Mortal Combat or Epic Struggle) that I don't think I'd complain if someone else included it in their deck, simply because creatures are so much easier to deal with than enchantments. If Phage does beat me, it's because I let her get through somehow or failed to kill her in time or perhaps I didn't even have a healer out to prevent her damage after she gains fear for a turn...something like that. That's a lot different than the aforementioned enchantments to me. Quite often my only hope against the others would be to have an enchantment destruction card in my hand or some such thing on the turn after it's played, and it would be deeply annoying to have to include 4 Naturalizes just because of one card my friend happens to be playing with. (and not use them on anything else for fear that their next card will be Mortal Combat followed by Traumatize)

To address the rest of Fell's question, a creature that deals lethal damage is something entirely different in my mind. Dealing lethal damage to a player usually implies that you've beaten them down and are simply finishing the game, or that you've somehow gained such a superior position that they can no longer defend themselves. (Like Overrunning squirrels or maintaining a solid defense while slowly battering away at them with Magnigoth Treefolk, or even blasting them to smithereens with a Fireball) Part of the difference lies in the fact that there are plenty of ways to counter such tactics, (Fog, Terror, Counterspell, ect.) while Phage's ability just says 'ha, ha. you lose' in one tight little package. (should she manage to deal combat damage to you of course) No setup, no battle, no conjuring of some huge uber-spell that will at least make the dying player laugh at how badly they got schooled. Nothing. Just you lose, and nothing more. Yes, there does need to be something to get her by the defenders, but Touch of Invisibility is about all anyone would ever need unless they're staring down a solid Clerical defense. So, as I said earlier, using Phage to win doesn't imply any sort of real struggle from my point of view.
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Fellfrosch on January 11, 2003, 01:30:41 AM
You say that winning with Phage involves "no setup, no combat, and no conjuring up some uber-spell," which frankly makes no sense. You have to find a way for her to get through the enemy defenses (setup), she has to deal damage (combat) and she costs 3BBBB (an uber-spell in her own right). Phage is essentially a normal creature who simply deals a different kind of damage--she doesn't win the game by herself more than any other creature does, and in fact is less of a game-winner than a lot of creatures we could name. I understand your deck philosphy (I do edit your articles, after all), but I fail to see why Phage doesn't fit into it.
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Prometheus on January 11, 2003, 06:51:04 AM
Maybe I can't explain it well. I don't like her either way though. Still, the disadvantages assosciated with her are strong enough that it's a reasonable card. One I don't really balk at much if nothing else. As we've both stated, she really isn't all that hard to deal with.

Speaking of editing my articles, what did you think of Infirmary Ward? If nothing else, I managed to convince myself to put blue in one of my decklists.  :D
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Lord_of_Me on January 11, 2003, 09:04:16 AM
there are a few ways to deal with phage, astral slide for one. Flicker for two or just  a plain old counterspell.
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Prometheus on January 13, 2003, 03:50:46 PM
I didn't really want to go back into it, but the article today on wizard's site about Phage had this dialogue in it, and it was too funny to pass up reposting here: (the developer talking to himself after coming up with the concept)

Me: Can we actually do this?
Other Me: I don't know. They lose the game?
Me: Yeah, but the creature has to hit them.
Other Me: They lose the game?
Me: It's a bit radical. But why not?
Other Me: One more time. They lose the freakin' game?!
Me: Outside the box please.
Other Me: I'm sick and tired of that expression. You know what's radical? Thinking in the box. You know why? 'Cause no one's looking there.
Me: Tangent.
Other Me: We've had our fun. Let's move on.
Me: No. We can do this.
Other Me: For those that came in late . . .
Me: If you say "lose the game" one more time, I'm going to smack you. Actually, that would hurt. I'll severely berate you.
Other Me: Ooh, not a severe berating.
Me: Let's just take the idea to Bill. See what Bill thinks.
Other Me: If Bill doesn't like it, are you going to severely berate him?
Me: Enough with the severe berating. The idea's cool, right?
Other Me: Oh, it's cool, but so is a direct damage spell that does infinite damage. That doesn't mean we should do it.
Me: (doing Homer Simpson's drool) Mmm, infinite damage.

full text of the article is here, but it's sorta long:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/daily/mr54
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Prometheus on January 15, 2003, 04:57:54 PM
Did anyone else check out Wizard's article on Seedborn Muse earlier? After all the discussion we'd already have, I find it amusing that there are still far scarier rares in Legions. (Kinda like Khamal, Fist of Krosa vs Supreme Inquisitor)
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Lord_of_Me on January 16, 2003, 12:11:55 PM
i can see it now - BG multiplayer deck.
4 seedborn muse
4 syphon soul
4 syphon mind
Other big attackers/blockers
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Fellfrosch on January 17, 2003, 05:38:24 PM
This is not a rumor but an actual WotC announcement: they're changing the layout of Magic cards, starting with 8th edition. I can't say I'm pleased, but that might just be a knee-jerk reaction to something new and different. The new design isn't necessarily bad, but...it's not Magic. See for yourself: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=sideboard/ptchi03/unveiling
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Prometheus on January 17, 2003, 05:58:04 PM
i don't see why the change & didn't feel like reading through the article to find out. I'll live though.
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Lord_of_Me on January 19, 2003, 02:52:25 PM
the new design would be great for a science fiction game, but it just isn't quite fantasy


Approximate complaint count
mtgnews.com = 868
wizards forums = uncounted millions
online petition ( http://www.petitiononline.com/mod_perl/signed.cgi?z8m9k45&1# ) = 1310 at last count, i advise you to sign it
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Prometheus on January 20, 2003, 12:21:05 AM
No thanks. The new design is actually helpful, and they won't change their minds anyway. We're all feeling our knee-jerk reaction, but we'll get over it and probably think the old design is ugly after a while. I do like the way they finally gave artifacts their own color too.
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Lord_of_Me on January 20, 2003, 12:01:36 PM
 :(i suppose i wasn't going to get 8th edition anyway, i'll see what i think when the next large expansion comes out
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Fellfrosch on January 20, 2003, 01:08:41 PM
I agree that artifacts deserve their own color, but I think they should have made a bigger difference between it and white. The colors are obscure enough already, and maybe it's just the computer image but I can't easily tell them apart. I guess it will be easier in person, but still.
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Nicadymus on January 20, 2003, 04:22:06 PM
I have to agree with you there, Fell.  It is difficult to tell them apart.
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Lord_of_Me on January 21, 2003, 12:16:58 PM
i broke the news to the games club at my school today, after several minutes of loud angry swearing they all signed the petition
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Fellfrosch on January 21, 2003, 01:12:48 PM
Just to reiterate Prometheus' post, that petition doesn't stand a whelk's chance in a supernova. The new look is here to stay, whether we like it or not.
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Nicadymus on January 21, 2003, 04:10:43 PM
Fell is right. "Resistance is futile."
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Prometheus on January 21, 2003, 04:41:09 PM
What is a whelk, and...does anything stand a chance in a supernova? A neutron star maybe.
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Fellfrosch on January 21, 2003, 06:15:03 PM
A whelk is something that doesn't stand a chance in a supernova.
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Lord_of_Me on January 22, 2003, 02:11:45 PM
i think it's some kind a fish or crustacean, am i right?
still, i don't like the new design and i refuse to buy eighth edition
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Fellfrosch on January 22, 2003, 02:58:14 PM
If you refuse to buy Eighth Edition solely because of the card design, go ahead and swear off Magic for the rest of your life...unless they do another redesign in ten more years, but I highly doubt it. The new design is here to stay and, truth be told, is not nearly as bad as we all say it is. These cards (recreated by curious fans with too much time on their hands) show that the new design is cleaner yet surprisingly faithful to Magic's look: http://www.starcitygames.com//ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=discussmagic&Number=6986&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=&vc=1

The most surprising part of all this, Isimir, is that you've only been playing for a few months--you haven't really had the time to get as accustomed to the cards as the rest of us. Why are you reacting more violently to the change?

As for a whelk, I honestly have no idea what it is, assuming there is such a thing. I just like quoting Douglas Adams.
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Fellfrosch on January 22, 2003, 03:00:13 PM
I just looked it up, and Isimir is right--it's a sea snail of some kind.
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Prometheus on January 22, 2003, 06:58:03 PM
Well I guess you're right. A whelk wouldn't stand much of a chance in a supernova.

As far as the new card design, remember too that we're not just talking about the Xth editions of Magic. Although they might finish off the Onslaught-Legions-whatever block in the current card format, I wouldn't be surprised if they make the change for that as well...and that's the last possibility I see for old format cards coming out. Unless you plan to forsake the game or any future purchases over it, I'd try to look at the new cards from a different angle.
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Lord_of_Me on January 23, 2003, 01:22:32 PM
i'll try to put up with it, but if you think about it there are say... 5,000 old cards for me to buy...
no 8th but i'll see what the next large expansion brings
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Prometheus on January 23, 2003, 04:28:23 PM
Hey, speaking of the Legions spoiler, is anyone local going to the prerelease? I asked before, but it's a whole lot closer to time now.
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Fellfrosch on January 23, 2003, 05:51:52 PM
I'd love to, but it's that whole money thing. If you go, make sure to tell us how it goes.
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Fellfrosch on January 24, 2003, 04:13:05 PM
I snagged a bunch of graphic designers here at work and showed them the side-by-side comparison of the new and old cards--they all like the old design better, without exception. Interesting.
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Lord_of_Me on January 24, 2003, 04:59:20 PM
may i introduce the worst card in history.....


Defiant Elf...

a 1/1 with trample? why?
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Fellfrosch on January 24, 2003, 05:20:01 PM
I'd hardly call it the worst card in Magic history, but it's definitely one of the wackiest. Green is the color of growth, after all, so getting it big enough to trample something won't be hard.

The trick is, they don't charge you for the trample--it's a 1/1 for G that has an extra ability tacked on. It might not be as good as a 1/1 for G that has an immediately useful ability (like a Llanowar Elf) but it's still good.
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Prometheus on January 24, 2003, 06:24:53 PM
Actually, the 1/1 trample elf reminds me a great deal of Tundra Wolves, regarded by many players to be a very strong card. (1/1 first strike for W) Defiant Elf probably isn't *quite* as good as Tundra Wolves since first strike is more useful at low creature strengths than trample is, but it isn't far off, especially since, as Fell pointed out, green doesn't exactly have weenie problems if it doesn't want to.
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Lord_of_Me on January 25, 2003, 09:29:06 AM
yeah, but to make it worthwhile you absolutely have to include something like Primal Boost
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Prometheus on January 31, 2003, 12:53:35 PM
Make the Card 2 is now in process:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=mtgcom/feature/125

The first choice they're giving us is predictably is the color of the card. Green has been removed since the last Make the Card was green, but artifact has been added as a choice, which I'm leaning toward at the moment. Voting begins on Monday. Any thoughts?

Note: if anyone out there feels like talking about Make the Card throughout its course, we should probably move this to another thread.
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Fellfrosch on January 31, 2003, 02:35:38 PM
I'd like to try white, because I'm fascinated by the reshuffling of color power and white really needs the most help. It's kind of turning into an aggressive, pseudo-red with life gain instead of burn, and I think we'd have a lot of leeway to design new funky mechanics.
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Prometheus on January 31, 2003, 03:10:50 PM
That sounds reasonable. Artifacts are cool, but white would be fun to work with as well.
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Lord_of_Me on January 31, 2003, 04:26:21 PM
i'm voting for artifacts because there are so many different things you can do with them
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Fellfrosch on February 14, 2003, 05:07:59 PM
You Make The Card chose artifact, but not by much. I suspect it won just because of the "hey neat, we can vote for artifact" factor.

Anyway, it's time to start coming up with ideas--not officially, but because I want to hear about your artifact ideas. What can we come up with?
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Lord_of_Me on February 15, 2003, 08:01:48 AM
how about something similar to tribal golem but with slivers and other creature types?
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Prometheus on February 16, 2003, 01:24:32 PM
A Buzzsaw creature that destroys any creature if there is another X (1-4...I don't know) creatures in play of the same type, tapping and possibly paying mana to do so. There aren't enough ways to really beat down on the tribal mechanic yet. If nothing else, it feels very Phyrexian, and it'd be cool to have something like that pop up again.

As far as our tribal tournament, I've put together 4 decks so far that fit into Standard. Some of them, however, don't quite fit the rules you outlined, so I may need to rework them a tad.

The purest one I've got is an all-soldier deck. I may go back and put in my Enlistment Officer from Apocalypse, but I was so close to Standard that I kept him out. I may perhaps substitute in a few Nomads, but I don't have a large block of them, so perhaps not.

The next one is a Zombie/Shade deck with a very minor component of clerics. My justification for the Clerics is that they all deal directly with Zombies...I don't know if we want to allow that or not.

I've also put together a Goblin/Beast deck, but this one also has issues with extra creature types. I put in some Wirewood Elves to speed up card drawing, a Caller of the Claw that was too cool to pass up, and a Clickslither for its combo effect with Goblins.

The one deck that most blatantly defies the rules you posted is my Riptide Project deck, named thus because it utilizes Wizards, Illusions, Slivers, and a Shapeshifter. All are directly related to the Riptide project, but it's a stretch for the format we're discussing. I could do without the Shapeshifter, but without the Wizards and Illusions combined I couldn't make the Slivers work well enough to bother with.

So...what do you think, Fell? What we discussed last Thursday was mostly that our decks be more strongly themed. I think the decks I've described fit that parameter, but the rules you set posted disallow all but one of them. Expanding the rules would probably be too much of a pain, but I'd still like to field them. Then again, I'll probably go back and rework them some now that I don't have to hold to Standard.
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Fellfrosch on February 17, 2003, 01:26:59 PM
I've built three so far, adhering strictly to the rules of creature type over theme. I haven't messed with the elf/beast deck yet, though, because it begs to have Vitality Charm (which makes Insect tokens, among other things), and I don't want to spill into a third creature type. I'd prefer to follow our creature type rules precisely for now, but go ahead and bring other decks, just in case.
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Prometheus on February 18, 2003, 02:06:37 AM
I've tweaked some of the ones I posted already so that they're no longer Standard, and they conform a little closer to the guidelines. I can't convince myself to remove the Clickslither from the Goblin deck and the Riptide Project deck only went down to 3 creature types from 2, but they're a little more in line.
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Prometheus on February 22, 2003, 05:08:24 PM
OK. In an effort to conform, I've reworked my decks again, partially since I'm not certain that Fell would change our rules and partially because I wanted to anyway. My Soldiers are hanging out with Beasts now in a weird 5 color deck, the Zombies are consorting with Shades again and they kicked the Clerics out of the clubhouse. The Clerics, however, decided that they liked Wizards more than Zombies anyway (the clubhouse was a mess), and the Angels found more worthy counterparts than the soldiers they suffered Thursday's loss with. There's still one outstanding issue in my decks, but that's a whole lot better than it used to be, and it isn't very big. (Along the lines of a Vitality Charm used outside of an Insect deck.)

That said, I haven't the foggiest idea when Fell wants to hold this tournament thing after he decided to postpone it. Also, are we going to do a huge multiplayer game or a series of 1v1?
Title: Re: Rumors
Post by: Lord_of_Me on March 19, 2003, 11:58:27 AM
Scourge

does anyone know the release date for scourge yet, I'm aiming to get most of the set within a week of release!(if i can afford it!)