Timewaster's Guide Archive
Games => Video Games => Topic started by: Vikramjit Singh Hans on October 19, 2003, 04:58:46 AM
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What's wrong with today's action games? Most action games released today, specially those belonging to the FPS genre, feel stale. Yesterday I played the demo of a game called Chaser and found that it didn't have anything new to offer. Apparently it is a big budget game. They must have licensed a really cool and expensive engine or made it themselves(which is just as expensive). And what do they do with this super cool engine? They go right ahead and create another half-life game. Have people stopped thinking creatively? Why is it that every FPS is happy to walk the same path? Sure we've heard that DOOM3 is going to bring movie quality experience to the videogames. But what about it's gameplay? Is it going to be truly enjoyable? SOF2 was made by giving the Quake3 engine a cosmetic uplift. But it's gameplay sucked. A couple of months down the lane, people won't even remember it. Why can't developers focus as much towards the gameplay as they do towards the graphics? This genre has lost a lot of faithful fan following due to such reasons. I have already started playing more sports and racing games. They are enjoyable as well as graphically well endowed. Action games should take a cue from them. Maybe STALKER will finally answer my prayers. Maybe it would bring a breath of fresh air to this otherwise stale genre. I know it's possible to exhibit innovation in this genre- remember Op Flashpoint?
PS:I think that Hardwar is the greatest game of all times. It was the first game ever to sport a truly complex game world. It was both addictive and fun at the same time.
Vikram
I had to format this post because it was very hard to read with the spaceing that it had. I didn't change any of the content.--Spriggan
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I think there's only so much you can do with the FPs genre. They're fun, but it's very hard to distinguish one from another because the core concept, by necessity, has to be the same every time. There is a lot of innovation going on, though, with stuff like Savage that tries to break out of the mold.
Sometimes, though, you don't need innovation. Serious Sam and its sequel are two of the best FPS games ever made, and it's because they perfected the formula instead of changed it.
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I think the best FPS ever was System Shock 2, It's got FPS, survial Horror, and RPG elemnents. I think the last truely innovative game was Mario 64, that was the game that took us into the 3D era and showed that it could be done. I cannot think of a game that had so many people talking about the future of video games. Grand Theft Auto 3 got a lot too but that game is just a build off of the M64 concept. I'd be surprised if any game comes out in the next 4-5 years that does invent a new game genra that's truely unique. I grew up playing VG, as have most on this site, there's not much I haven't seen. When I was in highschool and freshman in college I bought a LOT of game, easly 20-25 a year then rent another 10 or so a year. Now a rarely rent games and may only buy abouy 10 games a year. A majority of games (weither they be good games or not) just don't intrest me. I've seen it, played it all before and unless there's something realy cool/unique about the game (story, a gameplay element) I don't want to play it. And of those games I buy about 1/4 of them I never finish, which I never use to do. So I think a lot of us are jaded when it comes to games. And that we have to come to grips that there's not going to be these amazeing games like we've never seen before, and look for those ones that take the concepts that we know so well and make a realy good game in all other respects.
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I'd say that the sims was the last game to be original, but that doesn't actually make it any good.
Put simply, you can be original, you can make a game about watching paint dry or whatever, but unless it's a genius concept, it probably won't be any fun, which is the bottom line. That's why new genres are so rare, becuase the old onces are proven fun. And people don't like to risk money when they can guarentee a good seller.
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Ya you're right the sims is pretty orignal, I probaly blocked it out becasue it's so boreing. But we're in the minority, it's like the all time highest selling game ever. Largely thanks to all the women that bought it, over 50% of the people that play the sims are female.
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I've played Mario64. It was a really fun game, but calling it innovative would be exaggerating it a bit. ;)
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it was the first 3D platform game. Up until M64 came out people only speculated if it could be done and how, there were a lot of people/game designers that thought the consoles at the time couldn't do it or that 3D games would control horribaly as well as how to deal view in a 3D game (called the camera now). Nowdays it's hard to think that M64 would be innovative, but it was the pong of the next gen platforms.
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As much as I hate to admit it, Mario 64 was amazingly innovative for its time. To say that few games have been as innovative since, however, is pushing it.
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well name some. I admit I made a mistake by not mentioning the sims. GTA is innovative but it has just taken a genra and expanded on it. Ultima online is another that could go on the innovative list, and maybe Metal Gear Solid.
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I probably wouldn't include Metal Gear Solid, but I think you're not giving GTA enough credit. It's technology was old hat, but it's gameplay--the first truly non-linear, multi-genre video game--was amazing. Off the top of my head, I'm also going to mention rhythm games like Frequency and DDR. They weren't as big as M64, but they did the same thing--create a new genre.
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ya DDR is a good one. GTA3 wasn't the first openended game, but it was the first one that did it good. You might remeber daggerfall which was the second game in the elder scrolls (morrow wind is the 3rd), and I'm sure there were others that came before GTA3 that sucked so we never heard of them. Maybe I've got my standards too high on this.
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Ya, but DDR cannot go in there. It is a nationaly pitfall to all. I will not agree that DDR is a good game/bound pushing game, whatever.
You want a game where you could do pratically anything, try Bubble Bobble. Sure the only way up, was up. But you could do anything, you could jump on your bubbles, you could jump anywhere. Now that, that was pushing it way back when.
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Speaking of openended gameplay- does anyone remember Gothic? Sure it had annoying controls that were difficult to get used to, but it also had an expansive world and the player could do whatever the heck he/she wanted to. So I think Gothic was just as innovative as GTA3. BTY-has anyone tried Gothic2?
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Ya, well why don't we put Postal 2 up on that innoavtive list too. Heh smart guy?
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:-/I think there is a huge difference between Postal and Gothic. You have to understand that Postal glorifies violence in a childish sort of way while Gothic has a more mature premise. Umm ok?
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Ya ya.
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Hi-it's me again(Vikram). I am a member now. :) Yeah I know- Good for me.
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A game doesn't have to redifine a genre or or even create a new one in order to be innovative. I like games that are fun to play. I don't give two hoots about the technology behind it. Unreal Tournament 2003 wasn't nearly half as fun as the original game- it was just another pretty game.
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Also Gemm postal and postal 2 are some of the WORST games ever made. Not only is it's graphics sub par but the gameplay only appeals to 14 year olds who think peeing on things is fun. Unless a game is actualy good it's not inovative in my mind, true they're trying to do something that others haven't but if it's not playable/enjoyable they didn't succeed. I'm intrested in games that changed the video game community not ones that were just fun.
Anyway the unreal guys realised something that ID software (quake, doom) has known for quite some time, you make more money selling your game engines to 3rd parties then you do selling your own game. That's why URT 2003 (just like Doom 3 will be) is more of a advertisement showing what the engine can do then makeing a steller game. The good news is that Half-Life 2 looks like they're makeing a great game that will be fun to play while showing off their engine.
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I certainly have high hopes from HL-2. That source code theft has pushed back the release date >:(, but we should have it by mid-2004.
PS: Has anyone tried Gothic-2?
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I don't believe I've ever even heard of Gothic.
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I just finished playing the demo of Restaurant Empire(I am a bit behind times when it comes to Sim games). It was a real blast to play. It has been developed by Trevor Chan who in my opinion deserves the same level of respect as Sid Meir. For those of you who don't know him- Trevor Chan is the guy behind some of the better PC games like Seven Kingdoms (I am a huge fan of Seven Kingdoms2). I would recommend Restaurant Empire to anyone who is tired of the Frag Fest.
RE can be downloaded from http://www.restaurant-empire.com/ while Seven Kingdoms2 can be downloaded from http://www.enlight.com/.
I also tried my hands at Airport Tycoon2. Now I have played the first one and can honestly say that it was much better than it's successor.
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welcome to a new low in gaming. Microsoft is releasing an expansion pack(that's what they call it) for Age Of Mythology. Essentially, this expansion pack is nothing but an add-on campaign in which you get to play the Atlantian God Kronos. So what's so bad about that? Well Microsoft expects us to pay for this campaign add on just because it's called an expansion pack-now how low is that? I'd say quite low. Anyway's if you want to download the demo you can do so from http://www.pcgameworld.com/download.php/id/4636/folder/demos/filename/AOMXTrial.exe
-Vikram
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That expansion has gotten the most praise out of any from the series, even more then the orginal game.
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The UT mission packs that were released by Epic had recieved a lot of praise-but they were free.
By the way Halo:Combat Evolved PC Demo is up for grabs at the Microsoft site. A warning though: The game will run quite slowly even on the most powerful PC if all the graphical settings are turned to max and the resolution is set above 800x600. So you best bet is to run the game at 800x600 and lock the FPS to 30. The game engine can be blamed for this. Graphics are quite good(just as expected).
The demo can be downloaded from http://www.microsoft.com/games/halo/downloads.asp
If you have played Halo for X box then you shouldn't buy this game-unless money holds no value for you, in which case you can give some to me.
PS: Spriggan do u really think that ppl who purchased the originaly AOM should pay for the "12 new god powers, 15 new human units and 10 formidable myth units"?
Vikram
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They should if they like the game. That's the only reason to buy an expansion. I'm not saying its the best expansion ever, just what the reviews said. I could care less sence I hate RTS games.
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Fellfrosch -savage demo is out. I am gonna try it out to see how revolutionary it really is. I just hope that you were right.
Vikram
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Well, as one who was in the beta I can tell you this: it's a freaking pile of revolutionary genius, but it's not very fun to play. On a LAN maybe, but even then I doubt it would be all that amazing.
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Savage is a game that very nearly requires verbal communication. Sure it has mechanics for typed communication, and some RTS field-type commands as shortcuts, but in my opinion those aren't enough. I only played the beta, and naturally its interface was still a little rough, but I'd be surprised if they were able to fix the root problem with the game: communication.
In theory it's a fantastic game, but the current limits of the game, and gaming in general, will probably turn people off for the time being.
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I think that the demo should be better than the build you guys tested. Afterall that's what beta tests are for- if you guys did you jobs right that is ;). Haven't played it yet though. BTW did any of you try the Halo PC demo
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Toady I saw a movie on HBO called-"How To Create A Monster". It's about a Video Game that comes to life and starts killing it's creators. Finally an Intern saves the day and also pockets the million dollers- To the victors go the spoils. Now we all know that Movies based on video games suck, but I also found out another thing today. Movies about video games suck even more. I just things improve with time.
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I actually have an idea for a movie based around video games. It follows the typical sports movie mold, the same one used in The Fast and the Furious, and 8 Mile.
The protaganists are a gaming clan, who play UT. The lead is the newest member and not sure of his abilites. Because of him, they lose a regional tourney.
Eventually, they get into the World Cyber Games. But look who they face in the first round: their local rival clan. They tie, and win the next two rounds, getting into the final.
At midnight, though, the rival clan sneaks in, and changes the configurations around. The mouse sensitivity is whacked and inverted, and they lose the first game of the finals.
It turns form bad to worse, but in the end they succed because of the actions of the main character.
Since this is a formulaic fill in the blanks kind of movie, that's all the plot you need, the rest is easy. Of course, licensced music is also important. The movie would have in the background loops from Kraftwerk, MC Hawking, MC Frontalot, and lots of OC Remixes. The climax would be done to "Quakemaster".
Hey, it could work!
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That actually sounds really cool. Like during a match, you can have the camera on the UT game, and have the mates using headphones to communicate to each other as they play. That'd be a cool shot.
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I dono Wolverne_man, the Wizard (with fred savage) was da bomb. I mean comon they had a powerglove (http://www.i-mockery.com/minimocks/nes/25.asp), a freaking powerglove (http://www.i-mockery.com/minimocks/nes/25.asp)!
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Well the concept is quite novel and is certainly quite thick in plot, but oftentimes it is the execution of a concept that is flawed. This is one of the main reasons why movies based on videogames suck. The only movie that was actually any good at all was tomb raider because it didn't stay true to the plot of the game. And that gave the director a lot of room for creativity.
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Okay, anyone who credits Tomb Raider as being a good movie loses a lot of credibility. Though it is, I am forced to admit, one of the least bad video game movies.
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c'mon... what about Streetfighter? or Mortal Kombat? You know that last one RULED!
Oh wait, I'm thining about head trauma, not movies. Nm.
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My sentiments exactly fellfrosch
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The Mortal Kombat movie is actualy the best Video Game movie (by reviews) and it is my favorite. It also was the first kung-fu movie to be made for US audiences since Bruce Lee's Enter the Dragon. And it's got an awsome soundtrack. But we've go through this topic in the movie section several times.
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oops I totally forgot to mention that one. It certainly rules the roost.
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I guess in terms of VG movies, it's good, but still....
And hey, what about that Super Mario Bros movie?!
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Are you kidding me :o
Super Mario Bros. movie totally sucked.
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THIS (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sarcasm) is what I'm talking about.
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Super Mario Bros. was an aswesome movie. I loved every minute of it. So you can take your Tomb Raider and go elsewhere with it.
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OK- you just take it easy now alright :)
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Has anyone played the new X-com game- honest opinions are welcome. I've heard that it's incredibly tough.
That reminds me- a lot of players have been complaining about the jump system in Tron2.0, which according to them is really hard to get a hang of. Maybe ppl are getting more used to playing kiddie games on consoles as opposed to games that require more than four buttons to play.
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Sorry wolverine_men, but that was just stupid. I've played TRON 2.0 (and loved it), and I understand why people would complain about it. Since there are 3 (or 4 depending on the way you look at it) different grades of the jump utility. Without it, you can't jump very high. And once you get that utility you can jump higher and higher with each upgrade. The only problem is getting used to how far and high you can jump with each difference. So there is some thought to how far and high you put yourself when jumping.
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UFO:Aftermath isn't an X-Com game. It started out being developed buy the X-Com crew but the game got droped by the developer and they left. Then another game companie bought the rights to it and basicaly made it a different game.
Also becareful about flameing/bashing a system/consoles. I have no tolerence for that, I will not let this forum become a flame war by people. I've locked topics for this and I have no qualms about doing it again. So you've been warned.
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Whoa - where was the flame?
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WM's snide comment about consoles, that's where. It realy erks me when someone does cheep shots against a console or system and this is my forum so I'll have none of it.
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Seriously, I see no flame, or even a cheap shot. If anything, it appears as though WM's comment was directed at people who aren't good at video games - not at the consoles.
Maybe ppl are getting more used to playing kiddie games on consoles as opposed to games that require more than four buttons to play.
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Spriggan my comments were not directed towards ppl who play console games. I like to play PS2 games myself. What I meant to say was that people who complain about the difficult jump system of Tron 2.0 are those who generally play simpler games that don't require a lot of keys to handle them. Nevertheless, I appologise for my remarks. You are the incharge here so do as you please- you can lock this topic if you so wish.
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Wigga Wigga!
On that sports movie style computer game, make the game sequences anime. So when they go into the game, you have anime versions of them doing the wierdosuper jumps and blasts of energy you get in anime. That would rule.
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Many of you must have played the game XIII. It uses a new cell shading technology. I tried my hands at the demo and was totally hooked from the word go. The graphics look quite amazing- just like being in a comic book. What I want to know is, does anyone know of another game that uses this technology(not the Jet Set Radio kind of cell shader technique)?
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Robotech. Which I still need to get. Not many games have gone this route since its apparently very difficult to pull off a cool game like this.
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I checked out some screenshots of Robotech at http://www.gamerstemple.com/vg/games/000248/000248s.asp
It looks quite good. I suppose the XBox version will have better graphics than the PS2 version.
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Anime...nice idea, Entropy! I see llooking at real footage to start, but switching to Anime style as they get into the game. You could really give the avatars personality that way, and create a good dichotomy between the player and their nick.
Ok, this movie *has* to be made. I'll start writing a script sometime soon. Anyone want to help?
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I could act as a proofreader and feedback for you. Just throw each section my way as its finished. I'm stupid so don't really have anything to add, apart from a few character concepts. Avoiding geek stereotypes would be good.
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Sports movie mold means sterotypes are necessary, but it doesn't mean the characters can't have individual personality, just they have to like spicy foods and drink lots of caffeine. (Sponsored Product Placement, of course!)
Don't expect anything soon. It took me about four years to write the first chapter of a novel I planned. I'm getting better though, since I wrote another first chapter in three months, and I'm halfway into two short stories I started only a few months ago. But thanks for the offer.
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I'd like to direct the movie if you don't mind.
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Sure. I'm not too obsessed with who does what, I just want to see this made!
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Do you have any producer in mind? This might require some money.
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Ahh...money, something I have none of. I was more thinking of just writing a script or something, and then seeing what can be done with it. In all reality, a low-budget home job with a hand held camera is most likely...
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two words: stop motion. You could use lego's or action figures.
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Or a combination!
G I Joe v. Star Wars (like on my desk -- I got two more ninjas, btw, Kamakura and Night something or other, plus I got a Sabretooth). Cobra is the evil rival clan, G I Joe is the good guy clan. How nerdy is that?!
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I like it, although it would mean moving lsightly away from the sports mold, and more towards arthouse style. Then, we could have a film ala Mulholland Drive that makes absolutely no sense. And include Lesbians.
Start with a script/characters/ideas. ogistics can be done using the geek method i.e. figure it out when the problem manifests. Like I always do running school socials...
Leigh: "The peaks aren't aligned, so we have to be careful not to blow the speakers."
Later: ::Music Blares:: Adam: "Arrgh, crap! Turn it down, we're gonna blow the speakers."
Me: "You know, we really should align the peak values"
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I think all movies would be improved by the infusion onf some lesbians.
Wait, no, that should be "monkeys." We need monkeys. The film should be about monkeys who play UT.
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Lesbain Ninja Assassin Monkeys? With soy?
That's an Everything2 joke, by the way.
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I prefer my monkeys with Tereyaki
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Haven't u ppl seen Wayne's World2? They used so many cool props like a toy aeroplane attached to a string that they used to supposedly travel to England. I mean besides computers a lot of old fashioned gimmickery can be put into action here. That's why I offered to contribute as a director. I got the skills.
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Call Of Duty has become one of my all time favorite games. Here's my list of top 5 all time favorites:
1) Monkey Island Series
2) Hardwar
3) Op Flashpoint
4) The Longest Journey
5) Freelancer
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10) or 11) Call Of Duty
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In the freelancer demo i found it amusing to fly towards the sun and commit suicide by heat.
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Everybody's a comedian. Flying towards the sun is just one of several different ways employed by the game to amuse the players. The simple ones always fly towards the sun.
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Oooh, burn.
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If you wanted to go for different, which I always do, I'd head towards pluto(if its still there) and see how long it takes, and if I ever got there, how long it takes to die on its cold cold recesses.
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Or maybe you'd starve to death. Can you do that in Freelancer?
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I was hoping to stockpile up on rations and foodstuffs. I dunno. I'll have to "borrow" my friends copy over break.
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What are you talking about Gemm? It takes almost no time to travel between planets because the game uses a jump gate type of system. Also conventional planet names have not been used. Planets have been named on cities such as Planet Manhattan. I think you haven't actually played the game.
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A sense of humour and possibly an ability to spot this (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=irony) and this (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=sarcasm) helps when using forums. Although since your a yank, I guess thats hard. Even SE slips up occasionally.
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was that a crack on me? ;)
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I think you should wear your funny hat more often Entropy- at least people should know what to expect from you. Most of your posts that I've had the privilege of viewing, had little or no humor in them. ;)
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I'm going to step in here right now and shut this down before it goes anywhere. Gemm and I were rather obviously mocking Freelancer by discussing ways in which you could kill yourself in it, and logic has no place in any such discussion. Please avoid taking or giving offense over such trivial topics.
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You are right. My comments were totally uncalled for. I apologize to Gemm.
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Nah, thats alright. I don't mind, really. I just thought that my comments were to be taken as a joke, since in space no one can here you scream.
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I think they can hear - I just think they don't care.
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Pig: In space no one can hear you squeal
oh, and nice new sig there HoM.
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Anyone remember Pigs in Space? Ah, that's a childhood favorite.
And yes, nice quote HoM. It's too true.
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I have an Aliens comic for you to read, Kije. Let me know next time you're in the DC area.