Timewaster's Guide Archive
Local Authors => Reading Excuses => Topic started by: Silk on December 16, 2008, 08:34:40 AM
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Still Monday. Gotta love PST.
Anyway. I'm extraordinarily curious to hear what you folks have to say - and I mean it when I say don't be nice. Go on, tear it to shreds.
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You know, like you've wanted to do ever since you read my critique for you.
:)
Edit: Sorry for forgetting the language tag, guys. I was a little bit out of it by the time I got around to sending this out. I can be a total moron sometimes. Speaking of moronic, eheh, please, uhh, pretend you didn't see the bit in the top left hand corner. I'd prepped this story for submission a while back and I forgot to remove that...
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Good opening line and paragraph, really draws you in. For some reason I found myself slightly
disgusted no thats too strong a word. Maybe slightly nauseated? disoriented?..., and I'm normally not grossed out by gore, but hey.
We don't find out until page 2 what the name of your character is, which is a bit annoying. You might want to consider putting it in a little sooner.
I'm not quite sure who's thoughts those are in your first # break. Is it Darin still? I just found it overall confusing.
For some reason I really like Seryl. He just seems like a cool guy.
I like how occasionally you jump to present tense. It is a good technique that I haven't seen a whole lot, but I really like it. However, you never explain who's viewpoint it is that we are reading from. If it isn't Darin, at least confirm that somehow.
Overall I really like your style of writing and the way you put your words together. I don't like how the viewpoint jumps around every page or two. I also think you could maybe do with a little more description. What does Darin look like? And Seryl? Maybe describe the Valing pass?
I think you need to give us a bit more grounding in your world. Who is fighting? How big is the war, is it just two minor nations or several alliances? How long has it been going on? Why are they fighting?
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Your writing style seems to be very poetic. I got a little confused by the breaks and point of view shifts (you are a pretty judgmental writer-if you know what I mean-so I need to know right away who’s judgments they are; yours as an author, or a character that you are tagging along with). I couldn’t picture the setting or characters very well, or even what they were trying to accomplish other then that they are soldiers (not even sure who the MC was, I thought it was Darin, but then he died…I think) but it certainly triggers your emotions; which is good.
But it just seemed like you were trying to wow your audience so much with your writing (which is good) that you forgot to tell the simple story for those of us still on a grade school reading level (aka a certain annoying frog in the audience). My advice would be to give us a firm character and a firm scene we can picture every time have a new section, then go ahead and go nuts.
I hope that made since and was helpful. Good Luck.
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I completely agree with Frog, your writing style is very poetic. Beautifully done.
I agree with Reaves too, it is very difficult to follow who is talking. Each letter or day (I'm not sure really) is strenuous to figure out who is speaking. Also, there seems to be no distinction between internal dialog and the letters being read. I had a hard time knowing if what was being said was words from a letter or the character speaking internally. For example:
We’ve taken the Valing pass.
His house was modest, neat. He probably could have afforded better, but he didn’t need better.
I understand that the first sentence is the letter and the second is Seryl, but there needs to be more of a distinction. Can you put the portions that are the letter in italics or a different font? Just an idea.
Here's something that needs to be fixed: He wasn’t be the world’s best chef, but he hadn’t poisoned himself yet either.
Also this sentence is very long, can you break it up so it flows better: To look for a better way to tell a stranger something they shouldn’t have to hear about the loved one who had been Darin’s responsibility.
Ok, I think this also needs to be fixed because it didn't make sense to me: It was near enough the only time he had company.
I am also going to coat tail on the idea that we have no clue who the MC is at any point. I thought Darin was...but...like Frog suggested...he died?
I have to say the soldiers life was well depicted but seemed to drag towards the end...other than that, great job!
This is really well done.
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Thanks for the critiques, guys.
(And I'd thought I'd gotten rid of all the typos... Guess I missed one.)
M, were there any particular spots at the end that seemed to contribute to the dragginess of it, or was it just generally too wordy/too drawn out?
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You know...honestly...I think I felt like the story had explained the horrors and life of the soldier enough and I was ready to move on to a conflict. The central conflict of the story felt missing to me, but of course this is only chapter one. I understood there was a war going on but what is the main conflict? I apologize, I shouldn't use words like "dragged". The pacing is good, but by the end I was ready for something new. Does that make sense?
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It's actually not chapter one, it's the end of the story... But okay. Thanks for clarifying. :)
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How did I miss that? I'm sorry.
Long day. I have no other excuse. :(
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Haha. I wouldn't worry about it. You're hardly the only one missing things in terms of this submission. >>;
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Haha. I wouldn't worry about it. You're hardly the only one missing things in terms of this submission. >>;
You might have too add me in that group as well. Though now that I think on it, I believe that you had asked (somewhere else) about a story you wanted to submit that was non-linear.
In my assumption that this was the beginning, I would have wanted more clarification as to who the POV person actually is. Though it might still need it if it's not brought to light later.
There were some action descriptions that kind of confused me, some seemed like they could be taken two ways.
Unfortunately confusion can be a problem with non-linear story lines. Not a big fan of it myself, but with some clarification you can pull it off.
All in all I like the story, and I really like the character Seryl.
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Thanks. I got your email, too.
(And that was actually a different non-linear story. ::) I've been doing a lot of experimental stuff lately... Don't really know why.)
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I've been doing a lot of experimental stuff lately... Don't really know why.
To learn to fly, you have to stretch your wings.
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First, WOW!
That being said, sign me up on the list of folks who thought this was just the beginning. And it still could be, if you considered picking it up where you left off.
Always one to be the deserting voice, I actually like much of the lack of details. I like that it is not very specific where or when it occurs, which gives it a universal feel. Spartans, Teutonic Knights, Red Coats and GI Joes all had to hurry up and wait, some making it home and some not.
However, there were some clues, if unintentional, that leads me to believe this occurs post-Colombian era somewhere in the Americas, probably in the early 19th century. My guess is South America. My reasoning is that you mention tomatoes and potatoes, which are both 'New World' foods, and you mention he used an oven -- a pot on top of, not in the oven, which is a post-Industrial era concept. Also, the only weapons mentioned are a clash of steel on steel. This could be swords or possibly bayonets, so not too far into the gun powder era. Likewise, no pain killers are used on Darin -- in fact it was assumed there would be none with the leather tooth guard -- implying they weren't in common use yet. Lastly, your letter dates have months with vaguely Spanish names. I'm guessing you didn't intend any of this, but asses like me would catch that.
Page 5: The phrase "an extra day or three" has become somewhat cliched.
In the same paragraph you use "The ended up stilted, formal." The following paragraph you state "Well, they weren't bothering with the formalities..." In successive paragraphs this was a bit confusing. Perhaps change the second use to "ranks and files"?
Last paragraph, on first reading, I thought he had punched the fire place then cursed. Only afterwards did I realize he had thrown the letter into the flames.
All in all, nicely done. I'd like to read the rest of the story! *hint-hint*
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Wow? I'm going to assume that's a compliment. ;) (Well, more because it's been a long day and I feel I need some ego-stroking than because I'm actually that optimistic.)
Just kidding.
Okay. I really appreciate your comments, everyone, and I think it's time for a few pointed questions.
First of all, I really do want this to be a completed story arc. Assuming there's no "rest of the story", what do you guys think you'd need to see in this one to make it complete?
I guess this one's for everyone but Karl: I've been waffling on putting more worldbuilding details in there too. I haven't so far because I'm absolutely crap at worldbuilding the story isn't about the conflict between nations, or the politics, or anything else. Some of you have already mentioned a few things you'd like to see - who's fighting, why, the scope of the conflict, more physical description. Anything else, and do you feel the story needs very much of it? Also, might including those things help fill the gap in the story?
Ah. A couple of people have also mentioned that I don't name the characters in each section soon enough, and some people cited the present-tense sections, in which the speaker is never named, as a problem. The thing with the present tense sections is that I was going for something very specific with those, and that requires that those sections remain nameless. So if I slide the character's names into the other sections earlier each time, will that make the present tense sections look more like something done deliberately (which is the case) rather than an oversight on the author's part?
I know these are kind of hard questions to answer without seeing it all in action, but I don't know that I'm going to get this story revised significantly enough that it'll be worth sending it out again - and it certainly won't be happening anytime soon. So, I'll get your input on that this way.
Thanks so much, you guys.
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Ok, for my sake, because I'm an idiot. I'm going to put myself on a limb and just point out my uneducated mind so bare with me please.
Can you explain to me (and I'm sure you have already said this somewhere else) but is this a short story or a traditional 80k+ word novel? You said to me earlier that the section you submitted was the ending, if so...what does the beginning deal with? I really liked your writing but I just couldn't figure out what message you were trying to get across.
So if I slide the character's names into the other sections earlier each time, will that make the present tense sections look more like something done deliberately (which is the case) rather than an oversight on the author's part?
Yes, I believe this would help out a lot, at least for me.
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I think many of us assumed it was the beginning of a longer work, and therefore were expecting it. If this was in a book of short stories, I suppose I wouldn't expect a continuation. However, adding some finality to the last section and building up the resolution a bit more might help.
I think it would be possible to add some more detail without loosing the universiality of the theme. Not unlike your month names, you could introduce county/parish names to delineate territories, and offering some scale of the conflict. I.E. is this between two rival clans? Or between the hill people and the mountain people? Is it a civil war? Is one a foriegn invader?
Okay, I'm going to wip out a big word here. I learned this from the creator of the HBO series Deadwood. Psuedo-specification. This is the human tendency to psychologically think the 'other person' is less than or not even human. This makes it easier for the person to do vile acts. This is true in racism, sexism or war. So whether it's the Gooks (Viet Nam), Krauts (WW II), Crapards (Napoleonic Wars) or the Johnny Rebels (American Revolution), the sides will have a derrogatory term for the other. The point being, if you add in such a nickname, with all the loathing and disgust wrapped into it, you can add detail again without being specific to real history.
Detail does not necessarily mean worldbuilding. It can also be a bit of misdirect, the gives the reader enough information for the world to feel real without having to pin it to a specific time or place.
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I am very impressed. I would have to say that this is possibly my favorite of all the submissions thus far.
I really liked how real you made the war feel. The grim reality of war was well-portrayed, both in the view of the soliders and in those who were only watching the war through rumors and gossip.
I also really like your prose. At times, it was hard to pin down exactly what perspective it was from, and to me, that was both a good thing and a bad thing. I liked the feeling it gave, but it was also at some times confusing.
There were two segments where I couldn't tell whose perspective it was from. I was guessing that they were from Darin's perspective, since he was the one on the front lines, but it never specified, so I was unsure. The first was the segment where it talked about how they wore no uniform, and the second was the one that talked about soldiers asked to dress up and play child's games. Both segments were intriguing, but I couldn't tell whose perspective it was from.
Overall, however, I really liked what I read, and I'm eager to see where this goes.
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M: No, this is a short story. Intended to be complete, though obviously it's got a ways to go to achieve that. (Sorry for the confusion on this score, everyone... I thought I'd said in my email that it was a short story... maybe not.) I mean, I can tell you what the central conflict is (as far as I'm concerned) if you like, though obviously if I have to I'm not expressing myself correctly.
Good points, all. Thanks.
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Well, this is one of the definite down sides of waiting a few days to critique someone's work because your busy:I have nothing to say that hasn't already been said.
It was a bit hard to keep up with who was speaking at times and a bit more description about the pass itself would be nice. I don't know if you really need to go into too much detail about the "why" of the conflict though, you did a good job of indicating that your characters don't even really know themselves anymore--something that can happen to soldiers who have been fighting for too long with low morale.
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You might not need to go into the why of the conflict, but you should elaborate on the when and where. The ambiguity of the setting is imo really the weakest point of the story. Karl already explained the conclusions he drew from the text, I drew largely different ones:
For me, the names sounded like the usual fantasy stuff, I didn't pay a lot of attention to them. The fighting strengthened the general impression of the setting being a medieval-style fantasy world. Bayonets never crossed my mind, on the one hand because the fighting style differs far too much from your descriptions (you wouldn't "cut" with a bayonet), on the other hand because bayonets imply guns, guns imply shooting, and not a word of that was mentioned. Then there was the passage about the attack on the caravan. Both the caravan itself, and the fact that its being attacked without uniforms (nowadays a breach of international law) imply a setting that lies at least a few centuries back from our perspective.
So the combat pointed me towards fantasy, a few other things did not. I don't know about cooking in or on ovens and when you did which, but I do know that not too long ago, all soldiers needed to be able to cook (living off the land and all that). Barracks imply a standing army, which in turn implies a more recent setting, as does leaving the army when you don't feel like being a soldier anymore and writing letters to the bereaved. Even the fact that the soldiers are paid (being able to afford a house) seems to point towards a modern setting, as did your overall writing style. Swordfights do not. All of that sort of made the story itself less important for me than trying to figure out the setting.
Jav took the insult in typical good cheer. “pants yourself.” Darin responded with a rude noise, and after a moment, they chuckled together.
This sounded very cheesy to me, btw.
I can, however, only agree with the previous comments about your writing: very poetic. I particularly liked the repetition of waiting being the hardest part in war and cooking both.
Anyway, I'd really like to know what the setting was. Maybe you only have to add one tiny line somewhere to make everything clearer. ;)
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Thanks.
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Apologies for lateness.
First of all, you have written my line of the year so far: "Bloody doctors. He’d never figured out why they had to poke at something before they fixed it. "
Love it.
Erm... what else.
A lot of your sentences seem very... short. Almost bullet pointish. I don't know if that's because of how I read things, or because I tend to write longer sentences, but I think there was an awful lot of very short sentences in there where maybe a comma would have done.
Also, I don't think we got overly far. The point of Jav and Darin being dead gets repeated a lot, which shows they are on their mind... but is the whole plot line going to be based around these two and their deaths?
Perhaps I'm getting easily confused, or I'm not reading it right. Any clarification would be brill?
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Hi Silk!
Ok, so it only took me over two months to review this one, but I'm finally here. Let the party begin! :)
So first off, I'll be honest: This was hard for me to get into. I wasn't captured by it, nor did I become "lost" in the story. I actually found myself easily distracted as I read this, and forced myself to stop and start over so I could keep track of the story.
That said, there were some good things. :) Specifically, I enjoyed your overall gritty, down to earth prose. While it didn't "Wow" me anywhere, and the sentence fragments you used weren't necessarily working, you invoked a strong mood. You also had some interesting characters, particularly when they reflected on what was truly difficult about war: the waiting, the writing to loved ones... anything but the fighting. That's great insight.
One of the first things I was confused about was your genre. I had no idea if this was sci-fi or fantasy or something else. Or, more specifically, I didn't know if this was a medieval setting, an alien setting, or a modern-day setting. Literally everything you mentioned could be present in all those times: canvas, uniforms, vegetables, metal weapons, soldiers, etc. You mention metal in a way that implies swords, but I never got a clear read on it. Truth be told, I never figured it out in the end. My guess is that it's a bit of sci-fi. ???
I don't need to know the specifics of the actual conflicts. I enjoyed that you kept this small and we stayed with the soldiers. But I really wish I knew what your world looked like.
I mentioned that the pacing was slow IMO. One thing that may have contributed to that was that your characters think and talk about a lot of "slow things". When your character is frustrated by waiting around, or being out of the loop, your audience can't help but think it too. In screenwriting, I've learned the hard way to not put lines like "I'm confused" or "I'm bored" in there because it just sets the audience up for thinking that as well.
The other contributor to the slow pace, I think, came from a lack of conflict. Yes, I know there were some battles and ambushes, but I couldn't really think of something that was challenging the protagonists in any way. They had difficulties, but no hard choices to make. That may be the core of what's lacking here. I think I'll bold that for reference. ;-)
“What d’you think’s going on, anyway?”
That was on page 7. And I wasn't able to answer. I felt overwhelmed by half-details, and not enough exposition. I wish I knew what was going on. So far, not much has happened beyond some introspection and a vague news report that the valley was "taken" (off camera though)
The need to pretend is over, so they fight in soldier blue under a blazing sun
The section of text which starts with this sentence felt really weak to me. The sudden jump in POV didn't work for me. I think I know what you were going for here (a cold, emotionless, fly-on-the-wall feel), but it just wasn't working for me. Ditto for the other sections with this similar POV. If you would like to use this POV, consider using it as an opportunity to show us physical details of the characters. You can still convey emotions by describing their look, their posture, their breathing, etc.
Seryl snorted. Tiresome was one word for it.
Well done with mentioning Seryl very early on, and then actually showing him on page 4. You planted that well. Although when you first mention him in Darin's POV, I got the impression that Seryl was dead, not just retired.
The last few pages fizzled out for me. Again, I think I get what you were going for with the letter. But it didn't resonate with me. Probably because I had very little emotional connection with Darin. I respected them, and their efforts. But ultimately, there was nothing at stake. See my bold comment above. :)
You're a good writer, and I honestly see some potential in this story. You have a beginning, middle, and end. It just needs conflict to drive it home. I would love to read a revised version if you come back to this.
Good luck!
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Thank you.
(It's taken me over two months to not review any of the submissions since December, so I wouldn't worry about that.)