Author Topic: Deep Throat  (Read 6844 times)

Oseleon

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Re: Deep Throat
« Reply #75 on: June 14, 2005, 01:45:49 AM »
Seriously,
Classified information is NOT something YOU get to make decisions on.  

You have the information so you can do your job.
You do your job with the infromation and then try and forget that you knew it.  

If something seems odd, You should
1) understand that you may not have all the information, just what YOU need to do your job
2) If, after point 1 is considered, you still see a problem, Bring it up to your superior
3) If You cannot mention it to your superior as he may be involved.  Bring it up to someone else up the chain WITH clearence to that information

You dont get to run your own coup with the knowledge you were entrusted with.  We decide our leaders through elections, not through rumormongering and Smear jobs

Because of Felt, The USA was left with an Unelected President.  Think about that.  

Lets pull back and look at it in broader terms
Information is power

A Man is entrusted with power by a government
This man uses that power against the elected leader and causes new leadership to take over.  

That sounds alot like a coup to me.  

Alles!!!

The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers

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Re: Deep Throat
« Reply #76 on: June 14, 2005, 09:15:26 AM »
Not ever, ever sharing classified info is a nice principle. Except he was right, wasn't he? I, for one am glad we had someone (who was elected as vice president, when we KNEW there was a chance he would be president, that's mostly all a VP is good for) who could step in. That's the beauty of the Constitution, not a travesty.
I'm glad we knew and that someone who was obstructing justice paid the penalty.

Oseleon

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Re: Deep Throat
« Reply #77 on: June 14, 2005, 10:36:51 AM »
So he was right, and the Rosenburgs were wrong?  
They both believed they were right, but 1 is hailed as a hero, the other condemed as a traitor.  
He did not have the authority to make that decision.  Just because he turned out to be right cannot justify the act of betraying the trust.
Alles!!!

House of Mustard

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Re: Deep Throat
« Reply #78 on: June 14, 2005, 10:51:17 AM »
Looking at your three things:

1) You say he may not have had all the information.  The information Felt had was that crimes had taken place -- and he was right!  Your first principle doesn't apply in this case.
2) Felt's superior was a brand-new Nixon stooge.  There's no reasonable evidence to conclude that Felt could have taken any of his info to him.
3) Who would you suggest?  He can't go to his boss.  He can't go to the White House.  Yes, he probably could have gone to Congress, but there's little expectation that anything good would have come from it.

Quote
Because of Felt, The USA was left with an Unelected President.


Because of Felt, there was no longer a criminal in office.  Think about that.

Quote
A Man is entrusted with power by a government


You complain about Felt's abuse of power, yet you seem very willing to forgive the Nixon administration.  Why?
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Re: Deep Throat
« Reply #79 on: June 14, 2005, 10:56:35 AM »
except that the Rosenbergs were damaging the country. Felt was preventing further damage to the country.

Fellfrosch

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Re: Deep Throat
« Reply #80 on: June 14, 2005, 11:36:38 AM »
"Rumormongering and smear jobs" seems like a pretty good description of our modern electoral process, actually.
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Skar

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Re: Deep Throat
« Reply #81 on: June 14, 2005, 11:44:56 AM »
Quote
1) You say he may not have had all the information.  The information Felt had was that crimes had taken place -- and he was right!  Your first principle doesn't apply in this case.

The definition of a crime changes depending on a great many factors.  Exactly similar activities could have been, and in fact have been, carried out during legitimate counter-intelligence operations.  Felt was not in a position that could have allowed him to know for sure that he wasn't tipping off the equivalent of the Rosenbergs by his loose lips exercise. The first principle certainly does apply. Just because he happened to guess right, and that's all it could have been, a guess, probably twisted by his disgruntlement and political vews, doesn't justify his gambling with the trust the nation placed in him by putting him in possession of classified information.
Quote

2) Felt's superior was a brand-new Nixon stooge.  There's no reasonable evidence to conclude that Felt could have taken any of his info to him.

3) Who would you suggest?  He can't go to his boss.  He can't go to the White House.  Yes, he probably could have gone to Congress, but there's little expectation that anything good would have come from it.


I don't buy your assumption about little good coming from going to congress, say the intelligence committee.  I don't think Nixon had the total control it would have taken to silence a member of congress, especially one of the opposite party.  The only possibility I've heard mentioned for it turning out worse was the idea that if it had come from a political opponent it may have lacked the public pressure punch to get Nixon out of office.  Let's not forget that Nixon voluntarily stepped down after being impeached.  We have had proof in the last decade that a president who perjures himself and is impeached needn't, legally, step down.  If there had been less public pressure maybe Nixon would pulled a Clinton before Clinton and stayed in office.  Then maybe we at least would not have abandoned the S. VietNamese .  That's a good.

Anyone with a TS clearance could have legally been trusted with the information Felt had, that includes people from the intelligence committee to people in the CIA to people in the Attorney General's office to people in the judicial branch.  There were plenty of people he could have gone to.

Edit: Point being, Nixon should not have been allowed to get away with lying to cover up crimes by his staff but Felt, by the same principle, should not be allowed to get away with leaking classified information to the press.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2005, 11:48:17 AM by Skar »
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Fellfrosch

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Re: Deep Throat
« Reply #82 on: June 15, 2005, 02:50:50 PM »
So dig this: the FBI official in charge of finding Deep Throat was...Mark Felt.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/8220322
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The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers

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Re: Deep Throat
« Reply #83 on: June 15, 2005, 02:56:42 PM »
wow, talk about your conflict of interests.

Entsuropi

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Re: Deep Throat
« Reply #84 on: June 15, 2005, 03:03:32 PM »
Evidently that spy training paid off, eh?

(And yes, I know the FBI are glorified police not spooks, meh)
If you're ever in an argument and Entropy winds up looking staid and temperate in comparison, it might be time to cut your losses and start a new thread about something else :)

Fellfrosch

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Re: Deep Throat
« Reply #85 on: June 15, 2005, 03:09:45 PM »
also, they spend a lot of time choosing their own assignments and hunting down paranormal events. This is what TV and the internets have taught me, so it must be true.

Entsuropi

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Re: Deep Throat
« Reply #86 on: June 15, 2005, 03:17:48 PM »
And then you read an rpg book on the subject, making you an instant expert.
If you're ever in an argument and Entropy winds up looking staid and temperate in comparison, it might be time to cut your losses and start a new thread about something else :)

Fellfrosch

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Re: Deep Throat
« Reply #87 on: June 15, 2005, 04:53:34 PM »
I wrote a college research paper that cited an RPG book as a source. That was awesome.
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