Timewaster's Guide Archive
Local Authors => Reading Excuses => Topic started by: Drew P on May 24, 2010, 04:03:44 PM
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Be harsh. Be gentle. Whatever. Just be helpful.
This is a very raw, 1st draft so I understand there are a lot of things that need adding/deleting. Just wanting to get a little critique on my style/idea.
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There was no attachment to the email.
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i just resent it with the attachment. Sorry about that.
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Well I gotta say I didn't see the end coming. I should have, but I didn't. Which I suppose says "Yay, I'm a good writer," when your audience feels like they should have seen something coming but didn't.
Anyway, I don't really have much to say about it, other then I enjoyed it. I wanted more setting but since is a Prologue, I didn't care. Shirtless dude, baggy pants . . . staff of rank. That's really about it. If I think of anything more, I'll let you know.
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For some reason, I still haven't received this...
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Cynic: I replied with it to your last email. Hope that one went through.
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Finally got it!
Okay, so upon finishing the prologue, I had one very important yet lingering question: Why? I am scratching my head trying to figure out why you put this scene in your prologue. Prologues generally serve as a hook or an appetizer to whet your reader's appetite for events to come. As a hook they will generally describe some awesome historical event that your reader will be dying to know how it turns out, how it effects the whole book (e.g. prologue to The Eye of the World). As an appetizer, it will generally show off the magic and coolness of your story and is usually used when the main story will start out slow (e.g. prologue of A Game of Thrones).
As far as I can tell, this scene does neither of these things. It's about a boy who is executed who wants the people to unite. As an event, it is not significant enough to shake the world. If there is more importance to it, then I missed it.
The scene doesn't showcase your magic or your world enough to act as a hook either. There was a vague hint at a ritual at the beginning, but that's it. It wasn't anything I hadn't seen already in dozens of other fantasy stories.
Anyway, that's why I wondered why you selected it. What were you trying to do with this scene?
Ok, now on to the writing. Your second sentence is a headache.
Even here, far back into the tunnel where the sun that splashed against the walls of the entrance could not reach, the noise was overbearing.
Try putting the last phrase at the front and it will work much better. Also, the perspective of who’s telling the story slips some in the beginning. This sentence--
Whether he heard the comment or not was unclear as he calmly went through his Restoration rituals.
--makes it unclear who is telling the story. Your MC would know whether he heard them or not.
Other than those examples, though, the story was well written. You write well. At this point though, I don’t know very well what the story is about, so I don’t have much else to say.
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I agree with what Cynic said about these two lines. You should be very, very clear about who your viewpoint character is at any given time and what the level of immersion is. If immersion is deep like it seems to be through the rest of the chapter, you obviously shouldn't reveal things that someone would never observe in themselves. "Whether he heard the comment was unclear" can be "he tried to give no sign that he had understood the comment", or something like that.
Another thing about the prose is that the description seems to bounce from detail to detail, without spending enough time on one to fully immerse the reader. And once the setting is clear, you don't need to worry about it until it changes for some reason. I read several bits about the overwhelming sound, and it started to interrupt flow for me. I mean, the first line, then maybe a few more sentences in the next paragraph is enough, I think.
As for substance, the “big reveal” technique could be good to establish your promise as a writer. The reader thinks, he got me once, let’s see if he can do it again. So, I can see why you did the execution this way. One problem for me though is that it was done TOO well, so to speak.
Here’s what I mean:
“…and so we honor him today. Against all odds he has prevailed!” - Herald
“They love you Druka , now don’t they.” – Orsak
It’s also odd that he knows the name of the one leading him to his execution. These seem too much like things that would ONLY be said is a certain kind of reception for the King sort of ceremony. That’s probably the point, but it could lead a reader to feel more tricked than surprised. You also have to leave out certain details about the pitch of the crowd’s voices and the looks on their faces for this deception to work. If you were to instead leave the purpose of the gathering completely unclear, or at least if the misdirection were a bit more subtle, you’d still have your “wow” effect, I think. I mean someone going so quietly to their own execution is going to lead to surprise in itsef.
Otherwise, I keep feeling like the scene could be drawn a lot smaller. You don’t need as much movement up the platform, through the crowd, etc. and you don’t need the exposition about the cities, the empire whatever that is. Until you have a proper point of observation anchored in a sympathetic character, all that stuff is going to be forgotten because there’s no reason for the reader to really care. You can start to see the price you’re paying for your surprise effect, because all you can really talk about is where the character is, how people around him are reacting and then his last words and execution. You can’t tell the reader why they should care about this character yet because doing so would reveal the fact that he’s done something that he’s to be executed for.
There’s also some minor problems about including both the word “God” and “Leuka” in the same passage, and other small consistency issues, but nothing too major for a first draft.
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I gotta disagree with you on some of that Leet boy. I did not find any of the celebritory nature of the death to be over blow or "too misleading," (for lack of a better way of saying it). As I read it i assumed one of two things was true and wanted to go to the next chapter to see if I was right. My first assumption was: It's like the Aztecs, where people thought it was super awesome to be sacrificed. Then I thought, "Or he's just marching up with dignity to his death. Perhaps it has some unifying meaning to him. Perhaps this execution is really the culmination of a lot of work and his death is something that's sealing the deal." With out more information, we as the reader can't really tell.
I thought it was all neat and was annoyed I lacked a next chapter.
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Well, between Cynic and Justice you guys hit on every problem I saw (that "whether he heard or not was unclear" line I saw right away and cringed on my re-read before submitting) and a few I didn't.
This was originally intended to be a short story that's been extended, then chopped, then extended again...all in my head of course. I also wasn't sure where this scene would go. I settled on the prologue rather than a flashback because they usually irritate me and the story is actually about the boy on the platform. This event is the impetus to his tale.
Cynic, I have to laugh at your take on the "sun splashedwalls' bit. That's my wifes favorite line! :D I kept wanting to change it, but she loved it for whatever reason. The things we do for women..... ;)
and LTU, I too am annoyed that I lack a finished next chapter. Hopefully that will be forthcoming soon.
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Okay, maybe it's the English major in me, but the sentence
Even here, far back into the tunnel where the sun that splashed against the walls of the entrance could not reach, the noise was overbearing.
bothers me because it's like running a marathon. Lets look at it:
(1) The noise was overbearing.
(2) Even here, the noise was overbearing.
(3) Even here, far back into the tunnel, the noise was overbearing.
(4) Even here, far back into the tunnel where the sun could not reach, the noise was overbearing.
(5) Even here, far back into the tunnel where the sun that splashed against the walls could not reach, the noise was overbearing.
(6) Even here, far back into the tunnel where the sun that splashed against the walls of the entrance could not reach, the noise was overbearing.
My level of tolerance probably ends after about number (4) or (5). After that, I start forgetting what you were trying to say in the first place and think that your final phrase should be bumped earlier.
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I suppose I'm supposed to be indignant or defensive or some such, but I am just laughing. I pretty much agree with your premise, but even if I didn't your delivery was classic. Almost poetic.
As I stated above, I was leaning towards rewriting it, but my wife (as all loving wife's do) made me feel good about myself, apparently too good.
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The word selection of that sentence is good. It just needs to be split in two.
Example:
Though the sun splashed against the walls of the entrance, he was too far into the tunnel for it to warm his face. Only the noise reached him from the outside, and that struck with an overbearing pulse that rattled the air from his lungs.
Or some such description that's maybe less dense. The ideas are clear, you just need more words.
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That's a good idea Justice. After reading your comments I realized I let the "noise' overwhelm me. As the original idea came to me that was part of the environment that jumped out at me and I guess I went kind of nuts with it.
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I'm sorry to be useless, but I have very little to say about this. There's just not enough here to give a meaningful critique.
I will say that I did see the end coming. I suspected it was coming from the tone at the beginning. When the altar was revealed, I was sure. I'm not saying this to brag, or as a criticism. This is a very good thing—it shows you've portrayed the tone of the event accurately enough to communicate what is really going on without having to explicitly say it. And for those who don't pick up on it, the end is a good surprise.
I could wish to see a little bit more from the supporting cast. I'm getting a vibe that they are in some way familiar to the viewpoint character, and I'd like for that history to come out more. You've shown yourself able to do something like this subtly, and the piece is lacking in wordcount anyway, so you've got room.
Good luck with the next bit. :)
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Alright, new blood. Hooray!
Okay, if I were to sum this up in a single word, it would be... charismatic.
I suppose I should explain now, eh? The piece drums loud the sights and sounds of the scene. The crowd's volume is mentioned several times. The changes in light are brought forth... you really work on the senses a lot. It's like you're trying to make the scene come alive in our minds with vivid clarity (and coming from me, who most people around here will attest to being ripped on for unclear scenes, that's something). I love it!
But then it falls a little short of the goal. Very little actually *happens*. The whole 6 pages are: he walks to the alter, the herald rattles off some stuff (the vast majority we don't get to hear), and then Martee dies. Hrm. Now, as a hook, the only thing for me to really find out is *why* the guy just got the axe. This doesn't bode well, unless you're going for one of those books where the prologue is the ending, and the first chapter starts with "One year prior..." The reason is that the information is going to be passed by other characters who are likely biased. So we'll hear from person A that he died because he was an evil man. Well, was he really? We have no clue. For some, that might be a good enough hook, but for me, that's definitely a secondary story arc. Something bigger had better be happening.
You mention that this is actually important for the boy. That's good and all, but (and I hate to say this) I think it might be better if this were a flashback from the boy's perspective. The reason I feel this way is because then you can tie it to the relevance it actually has with the boy. You can show how it affects his life better, which is critical if he's a main character.
The only other problem I have (and this might just be personal preference) is that your language use dips a bit into fancy/archaic styling. Things like
The Hanu held secrets the Endari knew not.
are an example. Now, I'm not too concerned with this as long as that's what you're going for, but it *does* slow my reading down a little bit.
So, TL;DR: Scene is very vivid, but needs more happening. Welcome to the group, and I hope to see more from you. :)
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Well, I liked it a lot. I wouldn't change anything at all, if it doesn't jive with the rest of the book.
The way you worked the senses almost made me think this person had a magical ability that was effected by the noise of the crowd, the heat, etc. That's cool. If not, it's still good to see someone that can work the 5 senses well.
Honestly, I often wonder why we submit small pieces of a novel, since it's really hard to judge anything but the most basic grammar and spelling without knowing the rest of the story. The senses could be important, they could not. This prologue could be exactly the things that Recovering Cynic was looking for: historically relevant, showing powers, etc....or it could not. We won't know until we read more.
From what's here though, I liked it. Of the five or so pieces that I've read tonight, this one seemed to be the easiest on my eyes. Meaning that reading it wasn't any sort of a chore, and something about the word placement, dialogue, etc. reminded me of how I would write a similar scene. That's not really praise, though, since I'm not every reader in the world. Still, it's something, right? :P
I really enjoyed this piece. Nice job!
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"Those in the vicinity moved away a step or two in what he took for poorly masked revulsion." This line makes me think that those with him aren't of the same ethnicity, or race, or whatever as Druka is. Interesting. (And a couple of pages later I find out that they're not. Well done.)
That Martee was going to be killed in ritual was obvious from the very first mention of the altar. That's fine if it doesn't matter to you, but if you were going for surprise you didn't get it.
Not sure I have mcuh to say to you at this point beyond "keep going." So, uhh... Keep going. :D
Now, as I read the others' comments on this material...
Cynic was wondering why you used this event as your prologue; I thought it worked just fine. I assume that because you included it as your prologue, this event does in fact have the kind of significance that Cynic was talking about. Also, I think that the disparity between what was supposed to happen (the High Whatsit being honoured for... well, whatever it was he did) and what actually happened (ritual killing) provide enough disparity to be interesting.
Justice commented that:
It’s also odd that he knows the name of the one leading him to his execution.
Pardon me for seeming flip, but... umm... Why? :P
Ahem. Seriously, though, I assumed that these people had some kind of prior relationship--probably something to do with whatever Martee was being "honoured" for.
Onto a couple other things that Justice said: He commented that there was a lot more buildup to the execution itself than necessary, and that it was all worldbuilding rather than character building. To be honest, I didn't feel like this was a problem when I was reading, but I do see what he means about insofar as this scene may be a little more effective if we're a little closer to the narrator, about whom we really know very little.
If you go back and try to add a little more about the character you might want to do so at the expense of some of the worldbuildling stuff (or the details which people have mentioned are repeated) since I think this scene will be better if it remains short and punchy.
I disagree (sorry to keep picking on you, Justice) that revealing more of the character's emotions necessarily means revealing more of what Martee has actually done. Nor am I convinced that Martee (in his own mind, anyway) has done anything worth execution.
Since others seem to have gotten something rather different out of this than I have, here's my take: Martee has done something noteworthy that has led to this ceremony in his "honour." He has no idea that he is actually being led to his execution.
I think Cynic's problem with the sun-splashed wall's line was that the structure of that sentence was particularly convoluted, not with the "sun-splashed walls" image itself, which is fine.
...And now I appear to be anticipating the responses. Maybe I should read ahead before I type this stuff out?
Like Ryos, I picked up that the tone was "off" from the beginning. Err... that sounded rather more negative than I meant it to. What I mean is that the tone of the story made it clear early on that not all was at it seemed. I spent the first few pages wondering how it would go horribly wrong, and when the altar was revealed it was an instant "Ah-HAH! THAT's how it'll happen!"
Regarding what lethalfalcon said: I'm not convinced that this should be a flashback, and I'm not sure I'm convinced that this scene needs more to "happen." Honestly, I think that the conflict that you have in this scene is sufficient. What I am noticing is that other people don't seem to be picking up the same things that I did--or I'm just making stuff up--so I would suggest that maybe the underlying conflict(s) of this scene need to be brought out more.
Those are my (as per usual) rather lengthy thoughts on your prologue.
Prophecy: The process isn't perfect, that's for sure. I WILL say that it gets a lot easier to make useful comments once each project gets farther along and we can start to see the shape of it. We've been getting a lot of prologues and first chapters lately, and yeah, the sum of the comments for those is rarely more than "Keep going."