Italics

[House of Mustard]

So, you're supposed to italicize book titles.  But how come people write The Bible instead of The Bible?  Is this an exception to the rule?  Or do people just do it wrong?

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

You can look at it either as an exception, or as a collection of books.

The second one doesn't really fly for me, since you don't write Ezekiel 37:15-17, you put that in plain text too.

Don't look at me. I don't make the rules.

[stacer]

Well, the Chicago Manual of Style does, and this is what they say (14th ed. if any of you have it--under Religious Names and Terms):

7.77 In few areas is an author more tempted to overcapitalize or an editor more loath to urge a lowercase style than in religion. (etc.) -- they go on to say how they urge a "down style" in referring to religious terms.

7.87 Capitalize names--and use roman type--for the Judeo-Christian Bible and its versions and editions.
(gives a list)

7.88 Other sacred or highly revered works are similarly treated:
Bhagavad Gita
Book of the Dead
Dead Sea Scrolls
Sunnah
Sutra
Talmud
etc.

So it's not just the Bible, it's all religious texts (in Chicago Style, at least).

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

ok. What's a "down style" and what exactly are writers more prone to capitalize when it comes to religion? and what's the justification for the rule?

[stacer]

7.77   In few areas is an author more tempted ot overcapitalize or an editor more loath to urge a lowercase style than in religion. That this is probably due to unanalyzed acceptance of the pious customs of an earlier age, to an unconscious feeling about words as in themselves numinous, or to fear of offending religious persons is suggessted by the fact that overcapitalization is seldom seen in texts on the religions of antiquity or more recent localized, relatively unsophisticated religions. It is in the contexts of Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Buddhism, and Hinduism that we go too far. The editors of the University of Chicago Press urge a spare, down style in this field as in others: capitalize what are clearly proper nouns and adjectives, and lowercase everything else except to avoid ambiguity.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

ah, so like, Him and His when referring to God.

[42]

I've decided that the editors of the University of Chicago Press have been given too much power. They are treated like the popes of the editing world.

[Peter Ahlstrom]

Yes, they are. Even though many of their recommendations are shockingly inadequate for dealing with fiction.

We need a NEW comprehensive style guide for fiction (including the text of sequential art).

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

uhm.. I hesitate to agree with needing guidelines for the text of comics (I don't like the term "sequential art" because it is more limiting, in my view, than the "funny" implication of the term "comics"). I guess I can agree with SOME guidelines, but due to the graphical nature of the genre, there needs to be much more leeway for variations from the norm, espcially in formatting.

[Archon]

     Then again, a lot of the really good writers don't follow a certain style religiously. When you don't have to worry about things like that so much you have more room to be creative. Tolkien in particular changed the language around a lot to suit his own style, to build personality for his world. His editors changed a lot of stuff that he didnt want changed in the original copy of LOTR. So I don't think a new style is really necessary, authors should just continue to ignore rules that limit the effect of their books.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

Uhm.. it's not that simple. The style we're talking about are accepted presentations. What you capitalize. what you underline. etc. Verbage adn phraseology aren't at issue so much. It's more of an editing concern than a writing concern.

But you're a cute little linguistic anarchist, you are.

[Archon]

     Oh thanks, since I covet the designation of cute so much. I was just making the point that just because soemthing is accepted doesn't mean that you have to follow it. Work closely with your editor and you can get it to how you want it without giving up style.

[The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers]

well, the essential thing about that, is I don't disagree. But, if Art is knowing breaking the rules to a certain end, then there have to be rules to break. You don't want to break all the rules all the time, so it's handy to know what the rules are.

[Archon]

     Yeah, you do have to know the rules well, but I don't think we need a new set of rules. The ability to bend them where you think they should be should give you all the flexibility that you need. Unless you think that the majority of the rules are worthless, then you might need a new system.

[House of Mustard]

Work closely with your editor and you can get it to how you want it without giving up style.

So says you.  My editor and I argued for several hours over the italicizing of two words.  She wanted it and I didn't.  In the end, she reluctantly agreed with me, and then it went off to typeset, and somebody else changed it.  It made me mad.