Author Topic: Mother's Day and Feminism  (Read 4227 times)

House of Mustard

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Re: Mother's Day and Feminism
« Reply #15 on: May 09, 2005, 11:47:51 AM »
Sorry to hijack -- here's a slightly different, mildly-related rant:

Yesterday, I spent the afternoon at my mother-in-law's house.  She is 65, a widow of five years.  My sister-in-law was also there -- 32 and unmarried.  The two of them had gone to church together for Mother's Day.

And all they could do is bash on the talks given in church.  (Their complaints and situations were different from those made in this thread.)  Their complaints were: my sister was upset that she was being lumped into the group of "mothers-to-be" and given the same gift of flowers that all the mothers received.  She said it was offensive, because she's obviously not a mother, but was lumped into the category simply because of her gender and age -- and she thought it was all very impersonal and rude -- rubbing her face in the fact she's not married.

My mother-in-law complained that, since there was so much talk about mothers, there was the requisite discussion of wives and happily married couples, which was insensitive to the fact that many, like her, are widowed.

And it just drove me crazy.  It reminded me of when I was single and hated Valentines Day -- but now that I'm married, I can understand it.  Not all holidays have to apply to everyone all the time. People shouldn't be offended because they're not the center of attention.

The fact is, everyone is in different situations, and just because the speaker at church is talking about someone besides you, it doesn't mean that you need to get upset.  It was Mother's Day, for pete's sake -- they're supposed to talk about those things.

I guess my point is that it's much easier for people to claim offense than it is for people to be positive.  Even if you're not a mother, you can probably afford to be happy for mothers one day out of the year.

(Sorry, I didn't mean to hijack the thread for my own, mostly-unrelated rant...)
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Skar

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Re: Mother's Day and Feminism
« Reply #16 on: May 09, 2005, 12:05:41 PM »
e and stacer have pretty much hashed this out to MY satisfaction anyway.  I think what's been revealed, again, is a universal principle:  You can't expect reality to fit a template.  And judging others for not fitting your template is wrong, dare I say sinful.

So people who judge OK and Ookla negatively for being responsible in their child-getting choices have a beam to lose.  And people who judge women negatively for working outside the home, in the absence of insider information, do too.

My wife stays home.  She homeschools our children even.  As Stacer points out that doesn't mean she doesn't work.  She works as hard or harder than I do.  And when I come home she needs a break as much as I do so neither of us gets one until all the kids are in bed for the night.  That works for us.

What's most damaging in the discussion on women working outside the home, in my opinion, is the attitude exemplified by people who say stay at home moms are "just moms" as though there's some higher calling in the commercial work force.  Please.  What ridiculously ignorant condescension.

I was sitting in church on Sunday listening to the same brand of talks and discussion OK was treated to, although not to the same intensity as that story, and it really started to annoy me.  Not only because of the specific talks but because of the general trend I see in my ward, and, frankly, the rest of the LDS church that I can see.  That trend is to avoid offending anyone at all costs, even at the expense of doctrine.  General principles of doctrine are watered down to the point of meaninglessness in order to be all inclusive.  For example, there are single moms in our congregation.  Not a single talk given on sunday or in the classes after sacrament implied, even remotely, that a traditional family is the best environment for raising kids.  Yet that is the doctrine.  What's wrong with saying that two hetero parents is ideal for children just because someone who can't/isn't living the ideal can hear you?  I think most single moms already know their situation isn't ideal.  Yet, for some reason, we can't say it out loud.

How can religion provide a guide to a better path if all paths look equal under the teaching presented in the meetings?  The key, in my opinion is to be blunt, blatant and obvious in the teaching of the doctrine and then live that doctrine by, among other things, not judging others.  Ideally, a single mom should be able to sit through a three hour block riddled with the hard truth about the doctrines concerning family and chastity and still be comfortable in her faith that neither God nor her peers in the church are judging her for making the best of her reality.

(Note: I make several assumptions in the above post which I hope are clear to the reader.  If they're not I apologize for any offense, it was not meant.  We'll work it out in subsequent posts I'm sure. ;D)
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stacer

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Re: Mother's Day and Feminism
« Reply #17 on: May 09, 2005, 12:26:29 PM »
That's actually exactly my point, Skar. Why not work from the Proclamation on the Family, for example? Why not work from general conference talks? Instead, she read a really sappy poem about ideal motherhood, without pointing out that it's the ideal (and a cheesy picture of the ideal, at that).

And I feel I must add that the other two talks were great. Gave appreciation for their mothers and related it to doctrine, talked about preparing for motherhood (this is a singles' ward). Balanced. Talked about how being a disciple of Christ makes you a better mother. That sort of thing. I guess it's just personal preference for me for it to be about doctrine.
« Last Edit: May 09, 2005, 12:29:42 PM by norroway »
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Re: Mother's Day and Feminism
« Reply #18 on: May 09, 2005, 12:58:41 PM »
it's hard to avoid giving a "me too" at this point. so, me too. People these days can't seem to understand that there are exceptions to some things, and not to others. Yes, there is an ideal. It's what Heavenly Father does. But we're none of us here perfect. That doesn't change what the ideal is a whit. some people aren't able to live that ideal right now, but just because we aren't or can't, doesn't change what the ideal IS.

After all, Christ said "Be ye therefore perfect." Did he expect us to actually do it? Yes, I think he did. And if we stumble trying to, then we don't complain about how someone is closer than we are, we pick ourselves up and try again.

Try for the ideal. I'm kind of the opinion that talking about the ideal doesn't mean that you have to ennumerate the exceptions. Those are understood, so when you CAN get closer to the ideal, you do.

MsFish

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Re: Mother's Day and Feminism
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2005, 03:01:02 AM »
I think that the thing the story fails to take into account is that there are different circumstances for everyone.  There are some mothers who get to stay home with their children.  There are also circumstances where the mother is doing the right thing by working outside the home.  You can't fit anyone's life into a cookie cutter mold.  The story does a terrible job of saying what it's trying to say.

On the other hand, I do think the message that family is important is a good one to give.  I've worked with lots of people who couldn't imagine why any woman would want to stay home with her kids.  I've also taken marriage and family classes where we've studied the value of having a parent in the home.  I think the basic principle is that we all need to do the best we can to make family a priority, and then deal with individual circumstances from there.  The problem with the story is that it prescribes a method rather than illustrating a principle.  Besides that it does give off the impression that a woman's responsibility is to look good, which is lame.  

Overall I'm just glad to live in a student ward where we talked about standards and revelation in sacrament meeting rather than motherhood.  Slightly more pertinent in my immediate life.  
« Last Edit: May 10, 2005, 03:01:37 AM by MsFish »
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Skar

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Re: Mother's Day and Feminism
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2005, 12:57:35 PM »
Quote
The problem with the story is that it prescribes a method rather than illustrating a principle.


Well put.
"Skar is the kind of bird who, when you try to kill him with a stone, uses it, and the other bird, to take vengeance on you in a swirling melee of death."

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fuzzyoctopus

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Re: Mother's Day and Feminism
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2005, 10:53:18 PM »
Everyone's agreeing and no one has been offended at this rant.  I think I'm going to cry tears of happiness.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2005, 10:53:27 PM by fuzzyoctopus »
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Re: Mother's Day and Feminism
« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2005, 11:00:44 PM »
Just give it time.
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Re: Mother's Day and Feminism
« Reply #23 on: May 11, 2005, 09:00:02 AM »
plus, mothers are Nazis!

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Re: Mother's Day and Feminism
« Reply #24 on: May 11, 2005, 09:19:58 AM »
you're all stupid, stupid like a horse.

a horse named Hidalgo.
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The Holy Saint, Grand High Poobah, Master of Monkeys, Ehlers

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Re: Mother's Day and Feminism
« Reply #25 on: May 11, 2005, 09:54:26 AM »
a NAZI horse!

Spriggan

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Re: Mother's Day and Feminism
« Reply #26 on: May 11, 2005, 10:19:22 AM »


thats real too

Her Honor The Mare (1943)

Historically significant as being the first Popeye short in color.  Popeye's nephews try to hide their new pet, a horse, from the sailor.
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Re: Mother's Day and Feminism
« Reply #27 on: May 11, 2005, 10:45:22 AM »
that's just.... really creepy.

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Re: Mother's Day and Feminism
« Reply #28 on: May 11, 2005, 11:24:13 AM »
That's not a horse, thats a balloon with legs.
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Fellfrosch

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Re: Mother's Day and Feminism
« Reply #29 on: May 11, 2005, 11:24:21 AM »
Dude...  So... What's the mouth then?
"Skar is the kind of bird who, when you try to kill him with a stone, uses it, and the other bird, to take vengeance on you in a swirling melee of death."

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