Author Topic: WOT Help  (Read 136890 times)

Shaggy

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #345 on: March 13, 2009, 12:22:39 AM »
Maybe she's pretending…or she was keeping tabs on him…or she sent the killer…or did it herself.
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Shard

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #346 on: March 13, 2009, 01:07:02 AM »
She's pretending to herself that Asmo is dead and that the DO all but said she was Nae'blis?
We need the metaphor of Magic and Monsters to understand the Human condition ~Stephan Donaldson.

Amalia

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #347 on: March 13, 2009, 10:10:53 AM »
When did the Do say Graendal is Nae`blis? I wasn`t aware he made anyone Nae`blis before Isha`maels reappearance as Moridin, although in the prologue of LoC, he asks Demandred: WOULD YOU BE NAE`BLIS? (exact quote)
Somewhat later, but I think still in LoC, Sammael finally gained the upper hand on Greandal by more or less suggesting the DO promised him that he would be Nae´blis. To me, this suggests the DO suggested to all Forsaken they might be Nae`blis. This ties into what he said in the LoC prologue - the Chosen dwindle, the weak fall away - let`s face it, the Shadow seems to believe in a survival of the fittest and it`s been said that in the AoL, the DO encouraged the competition among the Forsaken on the basis that the strongest would survive. I can`t quote it, though; I don`t remember where that was.
So I would guess the DO thought it was about time time to cause a more intense competition among the Forsaken, to counter Rand gaining in strength, knowledge and power (and besides, since he forbade them to attack Rand, he needed something to occupy the Forsaken with).

As to Asmodean... THOSE WHO BETRAY ME SHALL DIE THE FINAL DEATH. Shall. This sounds pretty much like intention to me, and the rest like regret the DO can`t resurrect Rahvin due to him being balefired. And after all, what do you think how long the DO would remain ignorant Asmodean betrayed him? Not terribly long, I think. And I`m pretty sure he wouldn`t be pleased at all. And that Asmodean got in that situation because Lanfear overwhelmed him ony serves to prove his weakness. Anyway, it doesn`t really matter, I think. Either the DO can`t resurrect him or he doesn`t want to. Same result.

I´m pretty sure Graendal killed Asmodean, because as has been said, there was a conspiracy between Lanfear, Graendal, Rahvin and Sammael. Lanfear and Rahvin are accounted for. Sammael was supposed to sit in Illian and it`s been said he`s a defender, so he likely wouldn´t have sneaked around in Caemlyn. This leaves Graendal. Why should RJ have brought her into this conspiracy? Three linked Forsaken would have been enough to overwhelm Rand, I think. But I guess being in the conspiracy let Graendal know or guess where Rahvin was. Given the constant rivalry among the Forsaken, I find it quite likely that Graendal was undercover in Caemlyn, trying to find out more about Rahvin`s doings to get a hold on him or maybe even find a way to kill him.
Later we`ve been told Graendal would abandon what she has and flee if she would otherwise face a direct confrontation, so her hiding once Rand and the Aiel attack would make sense as well. Then Asmodean stumbles across her and she just uses the chance to kill him because she knows he`s a betrayer and maybe the DO even told Graendal to do it (just that Demandred didn`t seem to know at the prologue of LoC doesn`t prove anything; it`s quite likely the DO tells different Forsaken different things).
Well, we`ll find out in AMoL.
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Shaggy

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #348 on: March 13, 2009, 10:18:45 PM »
Quote
She's pretending to herself that Asmo is dead and that the DO all but said she was Nae'blis?
No, not to herself; pretending to the other Forsaken and the world in general. And I never said ANYTHING about the DO or being Nae'blis; I don't know where you're getting that from.
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Shard

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #349 on: March 13, 2009, 10:31:12 PM »
I was refering to Grendals meeting with the DO, and how she felt she nearly had Nea'blis in the bag. Not that DO had actually given it to her but the fact that she thinks shes going to get it.
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darxbane

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #350 on: March 16, 2009, 03:06:08 PM »
The Asmodean death scene is written so much like Bel'al's that it lead a lot of people to believe that Moiraine was granted the wish to kill him, and is the reason she is now a prisoner.  It can't be ruled out, even though it is not likely.  People also use this argument (the wish theory), that Lanfear could have been.  My only argument with that is that Lanfear would not have killed him cleanly, she would have butchered him and left the parts for all to see.
I wanted to write something profound here, but I couldn't think of anything.

Shaggy

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #351 on: March 16, 2009, 04:06:45 PM »
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Lanfear would not have killed him cleanly, she would have butchered him and left the parts for all to see.
She probably would've if it served some plan of hers.
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darxbane

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #352 on: March 17, 2009, 04:03:10 PM »
At that point, she had totally lost it.  All her plans were in the toilet because Rand refused her one too many times.  She was Single White Female meets Fatal Attraction meets The Ring girl all rolled up into one.  I pity Kadere, Darkfriend or no.  Having your skin ripped off you whole does not kill you right away.
I wanted to write something profound here, but I couldn't think of anything.

Shaggy

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #353 on: March 17, 2009, 04:38:47 PM »
And you would know because.… ;)
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happyman

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #354 on: March 17, 2009, 05:40:54 PM »
At that point, she had totally lost it.  All her plans were in the toilet because Rand refused her one too many times.  She was Single White Female meets Fatal Attraction meets The Ring girl all rolled up into one.  I pity Kadere, Darkfriend or no.  Having your skin ripped off you whole does not kill you right away.

All discussions lead to Asmodean...

I think I'll sit this one out.
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douglas

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #355 on: March 25, 2009, 12:16:29 PM »
So, where's that update we were promised, uh, two weeks ago?  We need our vicarious reading fix! ;D

JoeC

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #356 on: March 27, 2009, 11:30:36 PM »
So, where's that update we were promised, uh, two weeks ago?  We need our vicarious reading fix! ;D
So needy Douglas!! j/k  Sorry about that. Been very busy(women...grrr) coupled with the fact that this book has not had as many major events than the last. I see that it HAS been awhile so I'll give an update!

-This book has mostly been about Rand, with the girls in Salidar as the supporting story. Still no Perrin...what's up with that? I see Rand has fully taken on the role as Dragon Reborn. He has real authority and exercises it very well. Even when he doesn't want to ( executing an Aeil he liked because they broke the law Rand made, very sad.) His character has grown so much. His growth in power is accompanied by the growth in problems he has to face. I think it's very odd that since the real Dragon has been reborn, the HERO of all life on that world, lords and ladies still play the game of houses and actually plot against him??? Even though this is a bit weird, it is a good example of selfish human nature.

-Nyneave Healed Logain, Suian, and Leane. VERY interesting. How can she have found something so easily that other Aes Sedai for thousands of years couldn't find?? It is a bit odd that Suian and Leane aren't back to full power.

-Egwene is the Amyrlin Seat. This is exciting, though unfortunately I knew it was coming as it was spoiled for me on after I googled Wheel of Time. My mistake. I'm happy for her and I think it's the right move if the Salidar Aes Sedai want Rand on there side, but having an Accepted boosted to Amyrlin would definitely cause resentment I think. She certainly fits the role with this new attitude change she picked up from the Wise Ones.

-"Halima" has infiltrated the Salidar Aes Sedai. She revealed herself as Aran'gar, the male Forsaken reborn as female. VERY nice idea by Mr. Jordan. A woman who nobody thinks can channel because she isn't Aes Sedai, but can wield saidin. No wonder she wanted Logain killed as soon as she got there. I'm very curious to see where this goes.

-The Forsaken have agreed to let "the Lord of Chaos rule." I still don't know why they don't all band together and kill him. Or why they didn't do it earlier. Lanfear could have killed him herself if Moiraine hadn't interfered.

-Mat took the Red Band army to Salidar to bring Elayne back to Rand. His first meeting with Egwene (as the Amyrlin) Nyneave, and Elayne had me laughing out loud. I could just picture him in my head mouthing off too them. When they tried to hold him with air, their flows disappeared because of his foxhead medallion. Their reactions were priceless. Mr. Jordan has a very good idea of how to inject humor into his novels at the right time. Elayne figures it's a terengal that stopped their powers but she has to investigate more. That terengal is perfect for Mat, as he distrusts Aes Sedai and with it they can't use their power on him! Now I know it absorbs saidin too because "Halima" tried to use power on him when they danced. He spun around thinking it was one of the other women though.

-Mat, Nyneave, and Elayne must go to Ebou Dar to get the bowl shaped terengal that may or may not change the weather, which has been oppressively hot. I hope they succeed, but I'm more interested to see the conversations between the three along the way. Including how Elayne plans to investigate Mat's terengal.

-Oh yeah, Alanna has bonded Rand as a Warder. I don't know exactly why she did this or why Rand didn't demand that she break the bond, but I actually liked that this happened. For some reason I can't quite say, I see this going in a very different direction than I thought. Plus, I kinda like Alanna.

Well that's all for right now. Sorry this wasn't very thorough. I just got home from work so I am very tired. I will try to update more often. I am almost done with Lord of Chaos and I put in my order for Crown of Swords yesterday. Thanks for the feedback guys!!
-Joe

Shard

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #357 on: March 28, 2009, 01:06:04 AM »
-This book has mostly been about Rand, with the girls in Salidar as the supporting story. Still no Perrin...what's up with that? I see Rand has fully taken on the role as Dragon Reborn. He has real authority and exercises it very well. Even when he doesn't want to ( executing an Aeil he liked because they broke the law Rand made, very sad.) His character has grown so much. His growth in power is accompanied by the growth in problems he has to face. I think it's very odd that since the real Dragon has been reborn, the HERO of all life on that world, lords and ladies still play the game of houses and actually plot against him??? Even though this is a bit weird, it is a good example of selfish human nature.

Hmm Perrin should be in Lord of Chaos, it must be taking him quite the while to get to Rand from the Two Rivers. I think that is the beauty of this series that just because Rand is the prophised hero doesn't mean every one else agrees or even if they do want to bowed down to him. It's mainly why he needed the Aiel so bad, they wouldn't plot against him the way Tear, Cairhairn, and others do.

Quote
-Nyneave Healed Logain, Suian, and Leane. VERY interesting. How can she have found something so easily that other Aes Sedai for thousands of years couldn't find?? It is a bit odd that Suian and Leane aren't back to full power.

This is I think a great example of how stagnant the Aes Sedai have let themselves become. They have let TOO many things go on the way side because they are afraid to risk being cut off or burned out. They become lazy and don't hunt for girls, they wait for girls to come to them, etc. I think Nynaeve's inability to bring Suian and Leane to full power has to do with the fact she used Saidar to heal Saidar. I believe Logain is back to full strength.

Quote
-Egwene is the Amyrlin Seat. This is exciting, though unfortunately I knew it was coming as it was spoiled for me on after I googled Wheel of Time. My mistake. I'm happy for her and I think it's the right move if the Salidar Aes Sedai want Rand on there side, but having an Accepted boosted to Amyrlin would definitely cause resentment I think. She certainly fits the role with this new attitude change she picked up from the Wise Ones.

She still has some maturing to do but she has come a long way, father then certain others I could mention. *cough* Nynaeve *cough* Elyane *cough*.

Quote
-"Halima" has infiltrated the Salidar Aes Sedai. She revealed herself as Aran'gar, the male Forsaken reborn as female. VERY nice idea by Mr. Jordan. A woman who nobody thinks can channel because she isn't Aes Sedai, but can wield saidin. No wonder she wanted Logain killed as soon as she got there. I'm very curious to see where this goes.

This WAS a good plot device and executed well I think. :)

Quote
-The Forsaken have agreed to let "the Lord of Chaos rule." I still don't know why they don't all band together and kill him. Or why they didn't do it earlier. Lanfear could have killed him herself if Moiraine hadn't interfered.

For the most part they don't trust each other enough or work together enough. Though there was the whole (Lanfear/Asmo/Sammeal/Rhavin/Greandal) group and you know the result of that one. Their priorities keep changing is another issue with the forsaken as well. They now figure what better way to smash up the forces of good then let them just keep fighting each other (ie Plot and fight against Rand)

Quote
-Mat took the Red Band army to Salidar to bring Elayne back to Rand. His first meeting with Egwene (as the Amyrlin) Nyneave, and Elayne had me laughing out loud. I could just picture him in my head mouthing off too them. When they tried to hold him with air, their flows disappeared because of his foxhead medallion. Their reactions were priceless. Mr. Jordan has a very good idea of how to inject humor into his novels at the right time. Elayne figures it's a terengal that stopped their powers but she has to investigate more. That terengal is perfect for Mat, as he distrusts Aes Sedai and with it they can't use their power on him! Now I know it absorbs saidin too because "Halima" tried to use power on him when they danced. He spun around thinking it was one of the other women though.

I love that medallion, it's the best thing Mat ever got I say lol Anything that puts the Wonder girls on their butts is a good thing. Sometimes a character just needs to be brought down a notch and Nyn and Elayne definatly need it at least once a book.

Quote
-Mat, Nyneave, and Elayne must go to Ebou Dar to get the bowl shaped terengal that may or may not change the weather, which has been oppressively hot. I hope they succeed, but I'm more interested to see the conversations between the three along the way. Including how Elayne plans to investigate Mat's terengal.

Oh it will be interesting indeed

Quote
-Oh yeah, Alanna has bonded Rand as a Warder. I don't know exactly why she did this or why Rand didn't demand that she break the bond, but I actually liked that this happened. For some reason I can't quite say, I see this going in a very different direction than I thought. Plus, I kinda like Alanna.

See now if this has happened you should have seen Perrin by now... *scratches head* Alanna lost a warder in Two rivers and Verin DID warn Perrin about her. I would have loved to see Alanna bond Perrin and see what Faile did to her for it lol. I'm glad you like that it happened but honestly this was a very very bad thing to happen to Rand... you'll see.....

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melbatoast

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #358 on: March 28, 2009, 02:11:45 AM »
Umm...too lazy to quote.

Regarding the healing of Logain/Siuan/Leane, this is discussed later in the series. I think this is a great idea by RJ about how important it is for men and women to work together.

Mat's medallion is so awesome for him. It has limitations, which the supergirls are about to experiment with, but Mat is still able to use it to stay free of Aes Sedai. He knows how to work it!
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JoeC

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #359 on: March 28, 2009, 02:45:45 AM »

Quote

See now if this has happened you should have seen Perrin by now... *scratches head* Alanna lost a warder in Two rivers and Verin DID warn Perrin about her. I would have loved to see Alanna bond Perrin and see what Faile did to her for it lol. I'm glad you like that it happened but honestly this was a very very bad thing to happen to Rand... you'll see.....


Quote

Perrin was in the prologue, and I haven't seen him since. At least that's what I recall.