Author Topic: WOT Help  (Read 136850 times)

SarahG

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #285 on: March 05, 2009, 10:09:56 PM »
According to Mr. Robert Jordan that should be "intuitively obvious to the most casual observer"

That's always struck me as a pretty condescending thing for him to say.  Considering how much controversy that question has sparked among very devoted fans, I think it's clear that Jordan did NOT succeed in making the answer intuitively obvious.
He ate my horse.

douglas

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #286 on: March 05, 2009, 10:38:26 PM »
AWWWWWW MOIRAINE?!?!?!?

I did NOT want that to happen!!!!
Join the crowd.  Moiraine is one of those incredibly rare creatures known as an actually sensible Aes Sedai, and she managed to well and truly earn Rand's trust.  There's a lot more I could say on the matter, but most of it would be spoilers in one way or another.  The doorway ter'angreal Moiraine and Lanfear fell through is, I believe, destroyed and nonfunctional.  Beyond that, well, RAFO.

Now, since Rand used balefire with FULL force to kill Rahvin, Mat Aviendha and Asmodean were alive and well when Rand went back out front. He erased Rahvin pretty far back I'd say. That was not very smart of Rand as I imagine there could have been many other consequences (I think there may be more I don't know of yet)
He's a Forsaken, how bad can erasing his actions really be?  There are some cases where the special effect of balefire really is purely beneficial, and this is one of them.  The full danger of balefire only really comes into play when it's used on a truly massive scale, and it's the metaphysical danger of the pattern itself falling apart the way a woven rug might if you tear out too many threads rather than any direct effect.

- Who killed Asmodean??? He was killed out of nowhere after just being ressurrected. I don't even have an idea who it might be besides one of the other Forsaken.
This is the mystery we were referring to earlier.  Robert Jordan is on record as stating that it was "obvious".  Good luck finding anyone else who sincerely agrees.  There is quite a sizable section devoted to this in the Wheel of Time FAQ, with several suspects with a wide variety of means, motive, opportunity, and degree of "obviousness", and there is not even close to a general consensus.  I believe Brandon mentioned in his blog that, when he first walked into RJ's house after accepting the job of finishing AMOL, he asked for two things, one of which was the identity of Asmodean's killer.  He has since "revealed" a joke answer twice, and promised that it will be in AMOL.

-Nyneave and Moghedian: This was the big cliffhanger for me!! Moghedian spoke a little too much and Nyneave deciphered that she is one of the Aes Sedai in Salidar with them. Nice!!! Nyneave knows who she is too but it left me hanging. She makes Moggy drink forkroot to put her into a deep sleep and says "See you when I wake up" Now THIS I want to see. I'd also like to see how Nyneave will explain this all to the Aes Sedai there, as she was not supposed to be in the dream world in the first place (she was secretly training Siuan.)
So close, and yet so far.  :P  But I'll let you read to find out what part of your speculation/conclusion is wrong.  :-X

Comfortable Madness

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #287 on: March 05, 2009, 10:41:29 PM »
According to Mr. Robert Jordan that should be "intuitively obvious to the most casual observer"

That's always struck me as a pretty condescending thing for him to say.  Considering how much controversy that question has sparked among very devoted fans, I think it's clear that Jordan did NOT succeed in making the answer intuitively obvious.

When in doubt blame Ishy. :o
“I will never serve you, Father of Lies. In a thousand lives, I never have. I know that. I’m sure of it. Come. It is time to die.” Rand al'Thor

"Mourn if you must. But mourn on the march to Tarmon Gai'don." Logain Ablar

douglas

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #288 on: March 05, 2009, 11:29:16 PM »
You mean the guy who died two books ago and has shown no sign of recovering yet?  Yeah, that's obvious. ::)

Lightblade

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #289 on: March 05, 2009, 11:32:44 PM »
Sorry but i just have to mention this since in the first 10 pages of this post i didn't see anyone catch this idea... This pertains to the posts about goodkind "stealing, borrowing using etc..." Jordan's ideas. If anyone really stops to think about it almost every story in the fantasy world is borrowed, twisted, copied, or reused to fit the writers idea. What was the first famous fantasy story that was written? Beowulf. A story of a great hero who rises to the challenge of defending a terrified people from evil magic monsters. Almost every fantasy story out there involves Swords, sorcery, armies, love, treachery etc... One of the last truly original fantasy epics to ever emerge was Tolken's LotR. He was the first to truly introduce elves and dwarves, goblins, orcs and implacable evil, outside of folk lore, now look at all the stories about elves and goblins and potent evil. 90% + of the novels out there are all so called "rip-off's" of LotR. But no one says anything. That's the problem with the fantasy world, it has a specific mold, how many "Fantasy" books out there arnt set somewhere in Midevil times? How many don't involve swords and sorcery of some sort? When you break it down to the beginning of an idea for a story they all start out relatively the same. An unknown hero, destined to save the world from some evil force or being wishing distruction or domination. All the heros suffer physical and emotional damage through out the story to "temper" the hero they will become. All involve magic of one sort of another, from ancient power sources from a long dead civilization to the power of creation itself.

Brandon himself has used this mold albeit lightly, his world pre industrialization, swords and horses, armies, wars, love, pain, Magic=allomancy etc... Will you all now start saying that brandon plagiarized his ideas from one or many authors? No i doubt it because his world and storytelling are more unique than most.

Summary of the Rant.

All fantasy novels indeed all novels in a specific genera are going to have similarities and differences, ideas will blend and seem mirror images of each other. What truly makes these books different is the writers style and presentation. Because when you get right down to it they are all the same old story twisted and beaten into a newish idea to express the ultimate battle between good and evil. The story is in the telling, not the ideas that it is based on.

mtbikemom

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #290 on: March 05, 2009, 11:37:51 PM »
"I have to go to Barnes and Noble to get Lord of Chaos... " from JoeC

   Be prepared for the next two books to get a bit, or quite a bit, darker.  I wasn't thrilled with that on my first read probably because I was worried that it would escalate (the dark content) and I'd have to give the story up.  I was highly invested in it then and I still am.   You seem like someone who will really enjoy where this story is going next.

   Listening to the recorded version for the first tme (I'm on Winter's Heart right now and enjoying it immensely) and knowing where the story goes makes LoC and A Crown of Swords much more palatable now, for me anyway.  I skipped the two books I hated, but Brandon says that they were not so bad the second time through.  I just remember wondering if RJ had lost his mind while reading PoD.  It ruined a great half-summer at the beach for me.

   I think some of us were so worried about Mr. Rigney (RJ) that Winter's Heart seemed amazingly good.  It is good, but not as good, really, as books 1-5 IMHO.  And nothing compared with New Spring, which I thought was excellent and very encouraging at the time it came out.  But then he wrote Crossroads of Twilight and I was back to worrying.

   I'm trying to stay general here and not give anything away.  I think it helps sometimes to realize when to not get your hopes up.  Maybe your expectations will be so low, Joe, that you actually enjoy that book!  I am curious about your reaction.  I highly recommend listening to The Path of daggers on audio, though.  Don't buy it, they are expensive; ask your library to find it for you!  Or read it and risk major WoT burnout...

Comfortable Madness

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #291 on: March 05, 2009, 11:43:15 PM »
You mean the guy who died two books ago and has shown no sign of recovering yet?  Yeah, that's obvious. ::)

Oh I assure you he's always out there. Always lurking, just biding his time....You know evil overlord type shtuff.  8)
“I will never serve you, Father of Lies. In a thousand lives, I never have. I know that. I’m sure of it. Come. It is time to die.” Rand al'Thor

"Mourn if you must. But mourn on the march to Tarmon Gai'don." Logain Ablar

mtbikemom

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #292 on: March 05, 2009, 11:57:09 PM »
every story in the fantasy world is borrowed, twisted, copied, or reused ... What truly makes these books different is the writers style and presentation.

I disagree that all fantasy authors are unoriginal to the same degree.  There is a big difference between using a heroic story model and using exact terms or very similar terms for very similar things.  I am going on an oldish memory here, but I remember thinking that Goodkind engaged in much too much downright copying.  Brandon seems entirely original to me in comparison.

Want completely original fantasy?  Read Carol Berg (sorry, broken record here).  There is almost nothing overused/formulaic/traditional in her worlds and she keeps pumping out better stuff every time!

Casco

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #293 on: March 06, 2009, 12:20:55 AM »
Hehe JoeC, you realy have some good reading ahead :D You will get alot of answers, but still alot of them will be answered in AMOL. The story will get alot darker from now :)
You still have the best book to read, Knife of dreams :) That book is just..genious. The Mat character grows and did become my favorite, i did laugh out loud many times reading that one, Mat can be just...perfect ;D

Im allmost jelous, you still have a GREAT storry ahead of you :)
« Last Edit: March 06, 2009, 12:23:17 AM by Casco »

Shard

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #294 on: March 06, 2009, 12:48:06 AM »
I'm curious JoeC if you had to guess who done in Asmo who would you pick? I'd like to see your thoughts before you start on LoC. :)

You will see Lan again his story isn't done yet.  ;)
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Vyrance

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #295 on: March 06, 2009, 12:59:54 AM »
Just one thing to correct about your last post Joe.  The man that comes to the palace in Caemlyn to see Rand in the end is Davram Bashere, Marshall-General of Saldaea, not Mayene.  Saldaea is one of the Borderland nations that borders the Blight.  Just had to set that straight since Bashere is one of my favorite characters ;)

IngtarWhoStoleChristmas

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #296 on: March 06, 2009, 01:41:53 AM »
About the Jordan V Goodkind thing,

Yes all authors borrow ideas from each other and basic stories from older stories. The big problem here was far too many parallels from one to other.

Aiel = Mud people
White Cloaks = Blood of the Fold
Aes Seadi = Sisters of light

I know there was a whole bunch more, but I can't think of what they were now as it's been a few years since I've read SoT - I'll have to go do that one again someday :-)

I've always said SoT was a good story, but it really lacked the depth that WoT has. I mean really I got pretty sick of Richard/Kahlan always getting split up. I will say that Faith of The Fallen was by far the best part of that whole series and will probably be held up as TGs best work.

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #297 on: March 06, 2009, 02:47:58 AM »
 A family friend who is a published author once said to me, "Writers don't borrow; they steal." Make of that what you will.
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Shard

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #298 on: March 06, 2009, 02:55:30 AM »
On the subject of Finns I think it was said that they are so alien to humans they might as well be evil. If you remember the Foxes they WERE wearing human hides so I think there may be some problems being on friendly terms with them.

And yes JoeC it SUCKED waiting two years between each book. I started right when book 7 came out so, and that was when I was in high school about 12 or so years ago. "It's been a long time and were nearly there...."
We need the metaphor of Magic and Monsters to understand the Human condition ~Stephan Donaldson.

melbatoast

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #299 on: March 06, 2009, 03:50:26 AM »
Glad you enjoyed the ending, JoeC. I think this book has one of the best endings. And I still have no idea who killed Asmodean.
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