Author Topic: WOT Help  (Read 136912 times)

douglas

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #210 on: February 10, 2009, 06:53:34 PM »
Psst, remember that this is supposed to be a spoiler-free thread.  That's not a very big spoiler, but still.

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #211 on: February 10, 2009, 06:57:24 PM »
This is not a spoiler free thread.  We just have to make sure we don't go past the book the TC is on.  I am looking forward to finding out if JoeC is as clever as Rand.  You are on the brink of a pretty big reveal.  I didn't see it coming the first time through.  ;)
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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #212 on: February 10, 2009, 07:22:13 PM »
I believe Moiraine gives the information about Tam in the first book. In any case, it's not extremely relevant to the plot.
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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #213 on: February 10, 2009, 10:54:59 PM »
Quote
I'm pretty sure Tam is a legit blademaster. Don't want to give too much away but he was the one who taught Rand the Flame and Void technique.
I know that, but I don't see how his being a blademaster necessarily has a connection to the power-wrought blade.…
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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #214 on: February 11, 2009, 11:31:44 PM »
Update! Finished Shadow Rising this morning. VERY satisfied.

  Although a lot of it went on too long, this book was an overall very very good read. Luckily for me I bought Fires of Heaven at the same time I bought SR so I can't start on it right away tonight at work. (Ooooh I bet all you people that had to wait between books must really hate me LOL)
Okay. Perrin successfully lead the Two Rivers people to victory over the Trollocs and the Fade's. Perrin is truly growing and I honestly felt bad for him when he sent Faile away because he didn't expect to win this fight. When she came back with the people of Devin Ride, oooh boy THAT'S devotion! LOL. Very good battle scenes, although I do prefer more descriptive fight scenes like Brandon's, I did enjoy this one. The drama with Perrin and the Whitecloaks actually got interesting. Despite all he has done they still call him Shadowspawn. Perrin would have actually turned himself in after the battle...IF they helped. But they didn't so he didn't. Yet, the fact that he would keep his word even if it meant his death was a true indication that he is the best developed character in these books so far IMHO. I'm glad he and Faile got married too.
  Nyneave and Elayne successfully infiltrated the Panarch's palace. Elayne schooled one of the Black Ajah who was making Amathera sing dirty songs (man oh man are they cruel) buy surprising her and tying her up with air. Nyneave battled Moghedian in one of the best scenes of the book!! I really didn't see this coming, and even less did I see Nyneave winning this fight. She really is powerful when she's angry!! She almost stilled a Forsaken!! BTW I'm really loving the personality differences between the Forsaken and I'm glad they are not all fanatic drones. Some even have their own plans (Lanfear is sneaky!) So Nyneave managed to get the bracelets and necklace that could leash a male who can channel.  She wants to throw it in the deepest part of the ocean and I really hope she does because I don't want to see that thing around Rand's neck. They all got away on Domon's ship. I wish they could have captured or killed some Black Ajah. They are certainly still a concern now that they're all still out there. I think one did kill herself with the balefire te'rangal.
  Rand revealed the truth to the Aiel in front of the clan chiefs. They were ALL Tinkers back in the day. I got that when I re-read Rand's journey in Rhuiden. THAT'S why that other Aeil in there with him was clawing his eyes out. I honestly don't think that was the smartest move on Rand's part, at least not this early. But, the cat's out of the bag now. Couladin (sp?) was a surprise when HE claimed to be the Dragon. Where did he get the dragons on his arm btw??? Oh well. Rand proved he was the one with probably the best scene in the book!! Making it rain??! I never thought of that!! The Aiel worship water and I never figured to use the power to bring it to them. Then he made some kind of bubble around himself and Lanfear showed up. She was NOT happy that he had ruined her plans (still not sure exactly what they are). When he hears of Asmodean in Rhuiden he opens a door with the power and chases after him. I think this is the Traveling Weave that they talked about, but I'm not sure because they didn't call it that.
  Anyway, the fight between Rand and Asmodean in Rhuiden was awesome!! It's a shame all those te'rengals got destroyed but Rand has surely improved his mastery of the Power. When Rand and Asmodean are both holding the te'rengal and dueling with the Power was intense!! Luckily, Rand had the little te'rengal in his pocket to give him just the slightest edge. After almost gentling Asmodean (again a Forsaken defeated!!) Lanfear shows up and actually convinces Rand to keep him alive and actually as a teacher!!! This I would not do. Not for all the knowledge in the world! Bad bad idea. This is a guy who has had incredible power for thousands of years and is all of a sudden defeated and becomes a servant basically?? No way. You know this guy will be plotting and scheming to get his revenge. I guess it's up to Rand to remain one step ahead of him. VERY compelling. It's a shame that, when he returned to the Aeil, many of them had left with Couladin.  I honestly don't know how he's going to solve this problem. Some of these Aeil will just not accept him.
  There's so much more I could write but this is long enough LOL. I liked this book despite it's length. The characters and the situations have really evolved. Some very unexpected things have happened. Elaida stilled the Amyrlin!!! Ooooh I can't wait to find out Moiraine's reaction when she finds this out. I know her and Siuan Sanche are old friends. Not enough of Min in this book BTW. I like her. I'm glad she's helping Siuan but I don't know what they can do about the White Tower.
  I'm actually going to take Moiraine's side on her little tiffs with Rand. None of the three boys trust her, and their distrust borders on hatred. I understand they feel that she plucked them from their cozy lives and brought them into this and hopes to control them. I understand they are worried about being lapdogs for the White Tower. I truly don't feel that is her intention. The scene where she tells Rand "I want you to confide in me. I want to help you." was kind of sad. Moiraine is actually opening up to him (took her long enough) and I really get the sense that she fights for his best interest and the best interests of the world. I personally would tell her everything. About the dreams, Lanfear, all of it. She is a strong character and would truly be an anchor for someone in as difficult a position as Rand is in. She could help with his confusion. Though, I admit, she does need to be more forward and stop with the riddles and games. Aes Sedai or not, if she wants cooperation she should give it to. I see stubbornness on both sides.
Well, this has gone on long enough lol. Once again I'm glad you guys are enjoying this thread and I know many of you have been waiting for my opinion on this book so here it is!! I've got plenty to say about it as it was a LONG book so if any of you have any questions feel free to ask. I'm going to go ice my fingers now, they're numb! LOL. Have a good day!
-Joe

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #215 on: February 12, 2009, 02:50:17 AM »
Ahhhhh, I really liked that book. I should go read it again.

Perrin really shines in this book and the next few. He was one of my favorite characters in this section of the story, besides Mat.

Asmodean is awesome!! His scenes are really fun.
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Shaggy

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #216 on: February 12, 2009, 03:12:00 AM »
I like Demandred the best of the Forsaken, personally.…
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douglas

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #217 on: February 12, 2009, 06:02:13 AM »
Ooooh I bet all you people that had to wait between books must really hate me LOL
Yes, that is by far the worst part of the whole series.  We will all be gloating quietly when you finally finish Knife of Dreams and have to join us in waiting for A Memory of Light. ;)

BTW I'm really loving the personality differences between the Forsaken and I'm glad they are not all fanatic drones. Some even have their own plans (Lanfear is sneaky!)
"Some"?  Try "almost all".  They all have their own reasons for serving the Dark One, they are all ambitious, and there can only be one top dog...

Rand revealed the truth to the Aiel in front of the clan chiefs. They were ALL Tinkers back in the day. I got that when I re-read Rand's journey in Rhuiden. THAT'S why that other Aeil in there with him was clawing his eyes out.
Yep.  The Aiel call Tinkers "Lost" because the Tinkers broke the Second Covenant - to guard the immense cache of ter'angreal, angreal, and sa'angreal that (mostly) ended up in Rhuidean.  The Tinkers call the Aiel "Lost" because the Aiel broke the First Covenent, which was to keep the Way of the Leaf.  Only the Jenn Aiel kept both, and they died out long ago, not too long after the very first scene in the Ruidean history sequence.

A more full and detailed explanation of that sequence if you care to read it is at the bottom of the post.

Where did he get the dragons on his arm btw???
Asmodean gave them to him to provide a distraction for Rand.  It's an easy detail to miss as I recall, but it is mentioned somewhere in there.

I think this is the Traveling Weave that they talked about, but I'm not sure because they didn't call it that.
Close.  There are two major move-long-distances weaves, and this is the other one.  The official name and their differences are explained fully not too much further into the series.

This is a guy who has had incredible power for thousands of years and is all of a sudden defeated and becomes a servant basically?? No way. You know this guy will be plotting and scheming to get his revenge.
Not really.  As Forsaken go, Asmodean is rather tame.  He tells Rand he turned to the Dark mainly for the immortality so he could continue studying and composing music for all eternity, not for the power, and Lanfear has personally made certain that any other Forsaken will kill him out of hand if he tries to go back.  And, well, Rand NEEDS to learn to channel well and there is quite literally no other option available for that.

Elaida stilled the Amyrlin!!!
I'd forgotten exactly when that happened.  Major event, major repercussions, and the first really significant action by one of my favorite characters to hate.  I'm sure you'll understand why as the series continues.

I'm actually going to take Moiraine's side on her little tiffs with Rand. None of the three boys trust her, and their distrust borders on hatred. I understand they feel that she plucked them from their cozy lives and brought them into this and hopes to control them. I understand they are worried about being lapdogs for the White Tower. I truly don't feel that is her intention. The scene where she tells Rand "I want you to confide in me. I want to help you." was kind of sad. Moiraine is actually opening up to him (took her long enough) and I really get the sense that she fights for his best interest and the best interests of the world. I personally would tell her everything. About the dreams, Lanfear, all of it. She is a strong character and would truly be an anchor for someone in as difficult a position as Rand is in. She could help with his confusion. Though, I admit, she does need to be more forward and stop with the riddles and games. Aes Sedai or not, if she wants cooperation she should give it to. I see stubbornness on both sides.
Moiraine is really an exceptional Aes Sedai.  She has learned some harsh lessons from traveling with Rand that most Aes Sedai wouldn't even recognize, chief among them that maybe she really doesn't know best and that the Dragon Reborn needs to do some major free moving and shaking up of the world long before Tarmon Gai'don.  Some of the more extreme Aes Sedai want to essentially put him in a cage until the Last Battle, go on as if he doesn't exist, and bring him out just for the battle itself.  That is, obviously, not going to work.

Mandein goes to Rhuidean and is the first to undergo the new test for clan chiefs.  This scene serves mainly as a starting point.

Rhodric: The Jenn Aiel have not yet crossed the Dragonwall into the Aiel Waste.  Rhodric is a familiar Aiel, armed, dangerous, and veiled.  The Aiel are serving as escorts for the peaceful Jenn.  A town is actually allowing the Aiel to draw water freely, an unheard of kindness and act of generosity for the Aiel.

Importance of scene: The descendants of this town eventually found Cairhien, and much later the Aiel figure this out and pay them back with Avendoraldera and permission to cross the Aiel Waste, two priceless gifts.  King Laman later cuts down Avendoraldera to make a throne for himself, triggering the Aiel War in which four clans cross the Dragonwall specifically to kill Laman.  The final battle of that war was on the slopes of Dragonmount, where Rand was born.

Jeordam: Grandfather of Rhodric.  A group of Jenn Aiel come to Jeordam's camp with a tale of kidnapped children.  One of them is a woman, and she insists on helping with the recovery raid.

Importance of scene: This is the beginning of the Maidens of the Spear.  This is also where the short spear used as the primary Aiel weapon is first made.

Lewin: Jeordam's father.  His sister and some others have been kidnapped.  The true Jenn Aiel way to deal with this is to just accept it and move on.  Lewin and company refuse to do so, and end up killing the kidnappers only to be rejected on their return.

Importance of scene: This is the beginning of the Aiel as opposed to the Jenn Aiel, and the first abandonment of the Way of the Leaf.  The wording of the rejection is the origin of the Aiel custom of putting on veils before killing.

Adan: Lewin's grandfather.  Bandits have attacked the caravan.  Some reminisce about the Age of Legends, the powerful songs in tales, and scoff at the uselessness of their task of guarding a bunch of relics of the one power, then leave.

Importance of scene: This is where the Tinkers split off from the Aiel.

Adan again: Younger this time.  The Aiel encounter some Ogier.  They exchange some news, and learn that Myrddraal and Trollocs still exist and that the Blight is growing.  There is also mention of an Aes Sedai who claimed that Ishamael is not fully trapped.

Importance of scene: The beginning of the Ogier Longing.  Ever since this time, Ogier who stay outside a stedding for too long suffer crippling mental breakdown.  This scene also places some emphasis on the importance of the Way of the Leaf to the Aiel and mentions the volatility of geography at the time, placing it as during the Breaking of the World.

Jonai: Adan's father.  He is in a major Age of Legends city, enters the Hall of the Servants, and observes some discussion among Aes Sedai.

Importance of scene: Callandor is here.  The Aes Sedai who made the Foretellings that are collectively called the Prophecies of the Dragon is here.  Time is short because two powerful male Aes Sedai who have been driven insane by the taint are on their way to the city and will certainly destroy it soon after arrival.  A group of young and inexperienced, but not yet insane, male Aes Sedai is mentioned.  This group will assist the female Aes Sedai present in creating the Eye of the World and the wards around Callandor.  The last of the Nym, Someshta, is also there and becomes the Green Man later.  The gigantic collection of objects of the one power that ends up in Rhuidean is entrusted to the Aiel here, and they are charged with both protecting it and keeping the Way of the Leaf.

Coumin: Jonai's father.  He is a young boy participating in a planting ceremony involving Someshta and a strange and powerful song.  He receives news from a soldier, and finds his great-grandfather hanged.

Importance of scene: This is The Song that the Tinkers are seeking.  This is also very shortly after the Sealing of the Bore.  This could be said to be the moment the War of Power ended and the Breaking of the World began.  This also shows a violent attitude towards Aiel by some.

Charn: Coumin's great grandfather.  He is the servant of an important Aes Sedai and sees the result of a catastrophic experiment.

Importance of scene: This scene shows what Da'shain Aiel life was like originally, way back in the Age of Legends before the Dark One was doing anything.  More importantly, however, it is the creation of the Bore, the hole in the Dark One's prison that allows him to touch the world.  Also, this plus a few references in the other scenes reveals that the legendary Tree of Life is but one of a kind of tree that was plentiful and grown everywhere in the Age of Legends.  On another note, Mierin Sedai is Lanfear's original name.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2009, 06:08:39 AM by douglas »

Miyabi

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #218 on: February 12, 2009, 06:50:51 AM »
OK, so I really have a hard time reading these books.  I've started Eye Of The World like twelve times.  I get to the town and the festival thing, or somewhere around there, and I just can't continue because I'm SO bored. >>  HOW do you get through it?
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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #219 on: February 12, 2009, 02:48:50 PM »
Quote
I'm pretty sure Tam is a legit blademaster. Don't want to give too much away but he was the one who taught Rand the Flame and Void technique.
I know that, but I don't see how his being a blademaster necessarily has a connection to the power-wrought blade.…

Shags,

I did some digging and I found this on encyclopedia-wot:

"Mattin Stepaneos presents Tam al'Thor of the Illianer Companions with a One Power-crafted heron-mark sword. "

Which, I believe, is information give out by RJ at a book signing.

Oh and Myabi, just read a little past the festival part....after that there is an explosion of action.
« Last Edit: February 12, 2009, 10:16:11 PM by Comfortable Madness »
“I will never serve you, Father of Lies. In a thousand lives, I never have. I know that. I’m sure of it. Come. It is time to die.” Rand al'Thor

"Mourn if you must. But mourn on the march to Tarmon Gai'don." Logain Ablar

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #220 on: February 12, 2009, 10:05:34 PM »
Joe - thanks for that great post about The Shadow Rising! I think it is probably my favorite book in WoT. It's really fun reading a first timer's excitement about it. Thanks!

miyabi - Some people say that EOTW starts out a little slow. It picks up quite a bit after a few chapters. If you enjoy reading fantasy (or just huge complex stories) than I think you'll like WoT. If you have a hard time getting through the very beginning, then you might just have to force yourself to read through it. If you can't force yourself through, then you may just have to skip to chapter 5. That's where the "normal monotonous" stuff comes to an abrupt end. Winternight! But, I also have to warn you. You should avoid reading this thread until you're caught up with Joe. It's full of spoilers. You'll enjoy the books much more if you don't know where it's going.

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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #221 on: February 13, 2009, 04:23:08 AM »
OK, so I really have a hard time reading these books.  I've started Eye Of The World like twelve times.  I get to the town and the festival thing, or somewhere around there, and I just can't continue because I'm SO bored. >>  HOW do you get through it?Listen to the audio book, while driving or doing graphic design work. And then start straight into book 2. That's my recommendation.

I think there are plenty of slow bits in Eye of the World until somewhere over halfway through.
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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #222 on: February 13, 2009, 03:42:19 PM »
Just remember Moggy has numerous honey colored braids and Lanfear has free flowing straight black hair. That ought to help *heh*

I'm still trying to figure out if you are A) joking, B) trying to throw them off the scent, or C) mis-remembering.

You mean she doesn't have honey colored braids? Could swear she did.
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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #223 on: February 13, 2009, 05:11:44 PM »
Liandrin has honey-colored hair.  I believe Moghedian is blonde as well but I don't remember now. 

Asmodean is not tame, he is just a coward.  Lanfear reduces his power to a trickle, and Rand cut away the protection from the taint that the Dark One had given him, so he is now vulnerable to madness. 

Not all the Aiel that left went with Couladin.  Many of them simply have a breakdown and run off.  Others decide to become GaiShain permanently.  One thing Douglas' summary left out was the reason why Aiel do not use swords.  The original group tried to get around the Way by using farming tools instead of swords as weapons. 

I also thought EOTW started out slowly.  You just have to plow through it.  It will be worth it.


« Last Edit: February 13, 2009, 05:21:40 PM by darxbane »
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Re: WOT Help
« Reply #224 on: February 13, 2009, 05:27:47 PM »
I'm pretty sure Moghedien has dark hair and dark eyes. She appears in several forms so it's hard to remember but I believe she has dark hair worn loose when she appears as herself and when she appears as Gyldin, in TSR, she has dark braided hair.
“I will never serve you, Father of Lies. In a thousand lives, I never have. I know that. I’m sure of it. Come. It is time to die.” Rand al'Thor

"Mourn if you must. But mourn on the march to Tarmon Gai'don." Logain Ablar