Author Topic: Addiction, because its too big a topic ...  (Read 5951 times)

Master Gopher

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Re: Addiction, because its too big a topic ...
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2005, 06:59:27 AM »
Modest too...
but good work, man!

Eagle Prince

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Re: Addiction, because its too big a topic ...
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2005, 07:25:35 AM »
Modesty is often a sign of hypocrisy.

From my experience, at least.
I am the Immortal One hidden from the dawn; I am the Emperor-King after day has gone.

Master Gopher

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Re: Addiction, because its too big a topic ...
« Reply #17 on: June 07, 2005, 07:54:15 AM »
On the other hand, it can be a sign of low self-esteem.

But I am still reminded of being "Ever so 'umble, sir, ever so 'umble..."

Eagle Prince

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Re: Addiction, because its too big a topic ...
« Reply #18 on: June 07, 2005, 07:55:42 AM »
So can a huge display of ego.
I am the Immortal One hidden from the dawn; I am the Emperor-King after day has gone.

Master Gopher

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Re: Addiction, because its too big a topic ...
« Reply #19 on: June 07, 2005, 07:56:58 AM »
Well, then. That just proves what I was saying in the first place.
Makes you think, doesn't it?

*Idly watches flying distractions flutter past*

Oseleon

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Re: Addiction, because its too big a topic ...
« Reply #20 on: June 07, 2005, 11:29:59 AM »
Quote

Yes, these problems can occur when a person is trying to kick an addiction.  A person who lifts a heavy object can get a hernia, it doesn't mean there is no way to lift heavy objects.  Just because these problems are possible does not make them a majority case.


Ok, let me clairify.  A few years ago, I tried to detox a friend who was using Heroin.  I basicly tried to hold him hostage while the drugs worked their way out, Giving him coffee and soup... and waiting.. and fighting with him... and waiting... trying to comfort him... and waiting...
But he got so sick,  I had to call an ambulance I later learned that you should have someone supervising the detox.  They way I was trying to do it could have killed the person I tried to help.  
Anyway, he stayed clean for a few months... then started using again... I couldnt watch it again..  I had expended too much already, so I really don't know what happened to him.  
Alles!!!

GorgonlaVacaTremendo

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Re: Addiction, because its too big a topic ...
« Reply #21 on: June 07, 2005, 04:59:21 PM »
Quote
The problem, Gorgon and Archon, is not that any of us disagree that it's a possibility, it's that it often isn't a reasonable possibility to expect someone to live through. and to say they're a failure because they didn't overcome this beast isn't a fair assessment.  

Note: I'm not saying you said they would be a failure. I just think it appears that you don't appreciate the magnitude of the difficulty. I have an addiction I keep trying to beat, and every time I slip a little, I get depressed (which is also probably an addiction). I have had counseling and medication for it. I have extensive family support, and it's STILL taking years to beat it. Imagine what it would be like if somone had nothing like the access to counseling and the support structure I have. It is an exaggeration to call it an impossibility to overcome that, but not a very large one at all. We're talking in the realm of miracles here.


Just an FYI, I have no idea where this thread came from or what the previous discussion was, but I was just responding to Oselon said, which was, and I quote Jeffe's quote:

Quote
Depending on the substance they are addicted to, unsupervised detox can be deadly.  Alcoholics can go into siezures that cause brain damage, Heroin withdrawl can cause stroke, etc...    
And Detox is only 1 step, most people forced through detox will go score IMMEDIATLY on release (I have seen it) addiction is deep seated in the body and mind and only a focused rehab effort has a chance of sending it into remission... there is no cure


I was agreeing that there was no cure, that remission is the best one can get, but also I was trying to point out that the examples he used aren't a majority of people trying to drop those substances.

I know that an addiction is something that can't be cured, and is extremely difficult to stop, and near impossible to stop cold-turkey--especially heavy addictions.  I also understand that not everybody has the resources that other people have.  I wasn't taking a side either/or, mostly because I missed what seems to be the grand majority of this conversation.



And Oselon--Again, these situations do exist, especially in circumstances that have a heavy drug user.  However, just because it did happen to somebody you know doesn't mean it is common.  I am under the impression, and if you can link me to some reliable data that says otherwise it will be the last you hear from me on this subject, that those situations are a minority of drug users who try to quit.  There are always health issues with quiting any addictions, but from what I've been taught, fatal consequences of quiting are not a majority.
« Last Edit: June 07, 2005, 05:09:16 PM by GorgontheWonderCow »
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The Jade Knight

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Re: Addiction, because its too big a topic ...
« Reply #22 on: June 07, 2005, 05:28:46 PM »
I have some experience in this area, having to (among some others here) overcome an addiction of my own, and having been close to several people who have had to struggle with drug, pornography (or other forms of sex), gambling, drinking, and other forms of addictions.

As has been stated already, overcoming an addiciton is fiercely difficult, even ignoring the "physical" aspect of certain kinds of addictions.  There is a very strong psychological pull.  However, there is one form of treatment that is generally available for next to nothing - AA, NA, and similar sorts of support groups.  Certainly, this isn't exactly Rehab, but I've heard that if someone is dedicated to overcoming, and is willing to attend 2-3 meetings a day, the success rate rockets.

One thing I want to challenge, however, is the idea that addictions can never be "cured".  I would assert (from personal experience) that they can be cured (from within).  This is anything but easy, and sometimes takes years, even after "overcoming", but it can be done through some emotional rewiring - usually the addiction is fueled by some sort of emotional deficiency (at least the sexual variety certainly are, and I would be surprised if the others weren't similar), or "love disorder".  Through obtaining a greater understanding (and love!) for oneself, this deficiency can be cured, and the desire for the addictive thing largely eliminated.  True, there will be residual wounds that will always remain, and if one were to emotionally revert, the addiction would like resurface, but if one can develop and sustain a healthy emotional outlook, it is my opinion (and experience) that addiction can be "cured".

However, my heart goes out to everyone who is struggling with addiction of any sort.  I know how frustrating and challenging it can be to deal with that sort of thing.
"Never argue with a fool; they'll bring you down to their level, and then beat you with experience."

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Re: Addiction, because its too big a topic ...
« Reply #23 on: June 07, 2005, 05:30:11 PM »
it's like he said above, it depends on what you're on. Heroin is very dangerous. Marijuana not so much.

However, the other problem is that not all addiction is substance addiction. Behavioral addiction can be bad too, and with behavioral addiction, I've not seen a case where "cold turkey" was remotely successful.

The Jade Knight

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Re: Addiction, because its too big a topic ...
« Reply #24 on: June 07, 2005, 05:33:52 PM »
I think behavioral addiction is, much more than substance addiction, an emotional thing.  You're not going to quit (cold turkey or no) unless something changes (from my experiences, at least).
"Never argue with a fool; they'll bring you down to their level, and then beat you with experience."

Archon

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Re: Addiction, because its too big a topic ...
« Reply #25 on: June 07, 2005, 06:17:35 PM »
It is better to be hated for what you are than to be loved for what you are not. -Andre Gide
In the depth of winter, I finally discovered that within me there lay an invincible summer. -Albert Camus

Entsuropi

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Re: Addiction, because its too big a topic ...
« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2005, 08:20:32 PM »
Hah.

One of the people in my tuesday RPG group, lucy, appears to be regressing bigtime into smoking. She says she quit smoking a while back, doesn't smoke now and so on. But she just has one when she's stressed (at her job, which she hates). And yet, she comes close to chainsmoking some sessions, which is pretty obviously not 'one when i'm stressed'.

Random example, YMMV etc.
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Fellfrosch

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Re: Addiction, because its too big a topic ...
« Reply #27 on: June 08, 2005, 12:36:50 AM »
I wouldn't be able to handle smoking at a RP session, personally.
« Last Edit: June 08, 2005, 12:37:02 AM by JadeKnight »
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Master Gopher

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Re: Addiction, because its too big a topic ...
« Reply #28 on: June 08, 2005, 07:07:35 AM »
Quote

However, the other problem is that not all addiction is substance addiction. Behavioral addiction can be bad too, and with behavioral addiction, I've not seen a case where "cold turkey" was remotely successful.


I quit a behavioural addiction cold turkey 4-6 weeks ago. It's working so far, but it's driving me half-mad. I had to do it that way, though.  Cutting back wasn't really an option... and it was just way too destructive to keep up any longer.

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Re: Addiction, because its too big a topic ...
« Reply #29 on: June 08, 2005, 09:29:16 AM »
did you have counseling or other formal assistance?